>
> There are 13 messages totalling 1252 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Lutefisk: le insanitate es international
>   2. Bon Anno Nove 2003 ! (2)
>   3. Opinion re le anglese prendite de un phoro esperantista (3)
>   4. Avantages de interlingua
>   5. le catastrophe del petroilero "PRESTIGE"
>   6. percentage de elementos romanic in linguas no romanic (2)
>   7. Lugubrificante (2)
>   8. Sitos in Interlingua
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:00:23 +0100
> From:    Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lutefisk: le insanitate es international
>
> Jonathan Julius Dobkin wrote:
>
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/25/national/25LUTE.html
> >
> > Le New York Times reporta que plus lutefisk es consumite cata anno in
> > le Statos Unite quam in Norvegia. Incredibile! Ma vermente, le facto
> que
> > alicuno, alicubi, mangia lutefisk es incredibile a me...
> >
> > Ha il partisanos de lutefisk in nostre lista qui pote explicar le
> > attraction de iste pisce preservate in lye? ("lye es le parola anglese;
> > como se dice in interlingua le nomine de iste chemical alcali caustic?
> > Io no trova lo in le IED.)
>
> Le gado lixiviate (que nos appella _lutfisk_ in svedese) es un
> delicatessa.
> Sin le salsa e le pipro e sal il non ha multo de gusto, de accordo, ma
> con
> salsa e condimentos necessari, le gado lixiviate es un delicatessa que se
> trova sur le tabula de Natal, o tabula de yule de multe svedeses. In mi
> familia extendite, multes non ama le gado lixiviate, e pro isto io non
> gaudeva del gado iste anno, ma illo es, como jam dicite, un delicatessa.
>
> Kjell R
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:34:33 +0100
> From:    Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bon Anno Nove 2003 !
>
> "Alexei V. Soloviev" wrote:
>
> >  Salute a omnes!
> >
> >  Io studave le Interlingua solmente durante 2 dies. Illo semble me
> multo
> > plus interessante que Esperanto. Io comencia pauc a pauc prender le
> > cutuma a leger in Interlingua. Ma illo es mi prime prova a scriber.
> > Pardono pro un mal lingua e pro le contento non interessante de mi
> > message.
> >
> >  Bon Anno Nove 2003 e a revider.
> >
> >  Alexei
>
> Habente studiate interlingua durante duo dies tu capabilitate scriber in
> illo es hmm, remarcabile! Continua le bon labor!
>
> E a te e le resto del participantes del lista io desira un Felice Nove
> Anno
> 2003.
>
> Kjell R
> de Svedia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 27 Dec 2002 05:37:27 -0500
> From:    "Javi Lz. Est=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9vez?=" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Opinion re le anglese prendite de un phoro esperantista
>
> Io ha legite iste intervention in un phoro esperantista e io crede que
> illo
> pote interessar vos, iste littera es in anglese e etiam in espaniol:
>
> De:  "ruben feldman" <rufegon@m...>
> Fecha:  mar dic 24, 2002  9:57 am
> Asunto:  La angla kiel imperiisma lingvo
>
>
>
>
>
> Empireal English
>
> By Charles Durand (Author of "La mise en place des monoples du savoir",
>
> L'Harmattan, ISBN: 2-7475-1771-3, Paris, 2002)
>
> Recently, I had the opportunity to attend a conference in southeast Asia
> on "Globalization, Language and Education". On this occasion, I got into
> a
> hot
> debate with a Malaysian lady who holds a professorship at an Islamic
> University
> in her country. When I learnt that her university uses English as the
> main
> teaching medium even though both professors and students' native
> language is=
>
> Malay, I contended that the English language thwarts or even
> contradicts, at=
>
> least partially, the objectives set by those who created such an
> educational=
>
> system.
>
>
>
>
>
> English is being considered by many as some sort of Esperanto even though
> its qualities are far from matching those of Esperanto, which was
> especially=
>
> designed for international communication and which can be fully mastered
> in
> less than 10% of the time people have to devote to the acquisition of a
> second
> language, but the main problem with English lies elsewhere. English is
> the
> vehicle of the most horrendous propaganda machine that was ever
> conceived by=
>
> man. As opposed to what happens with other main world languages, the
> English=
>
> speaking world is mostly centered on one country: the USA, whose designs
> on
> the
> world scene have never been so forcefully asserted. There is virtually
> neither
> American TV network nor widely distributed American newspaper or magazine
> that
> does not carry a message which aims at facilitating the implementation of
> American ambitions abroad.
>
> Any student worldwide who studies English as a second language from this
> type of material tends to be turned into a sympathizer of American ideas
> about
> rearranging the world in a "sensible way", which needless to say,
> incidentally
> but automatically happens to always serve American interests abroad
>
> The interesting thing to observe about all this is that, gradually,
> someone outside the US who is exposed to this type of propaganda
> develops a
> view of the world roughly equivalent to that of an American. In other
> words,=
>
> even if American views of country XYZ are strongly biased, the English
> language student in that country will develop similar views. If, for
> Americans,
> country XYZ is on the rogue state list, the study of the English language
> using
> standard press clippings and audiovisual materials will provide that
> student=
>
> with distorting glasses through which he will see his own country in the
> same
> way. He will thereby acquire the same set of stereotypes.
>
> If the American press decrees that the average bloke in your country is a
> rough underdeveloped brutish character, chances are that our English
> language
> student will look down upon him as so.
>
> If you evaluate Brazilian aerospace industry through American media, you
> will most likely conclude that it is a big waste of money. If you look at
> the
> attempts by various non-aligned nations to acquire a modern well-trained
> and=
>
> well-equipped defense force, the English language student will most
> likely place them on the rogue State list. That's the beauty about
> American propaganda! It does work by reprogramming peoples' minds through
> the
> acquisition of English as a second language. You pay to be brainwashed
> and
> you
> feel happy about it ! Of course, there are those who read the writings of
> Noam
> Chomsky, Susan Sontag, Lester Thurow, Howard Zinn, Lyndon LaRouche, the
> Workers
> World or James Petras but I bet that these are not part of the prime
> teaching
> material they use at the American cultural centers and at the various
> branches
> of the British Council. Using English to provide some sort of an
> education
> to
> be exempted of American values is a self-defeating exercise, no matter
> what.=
>
> It is somewhat amusing to observe that some of those who are committed to
> reduce American influence over people minds often have selected English
> to
> carry their message. Even more so when people who have made this choice
> confess
> that the US is their worst enemy !! The fact and the matter is that
> modern
> English is a mental straitjacket while the intention is mental
> emancipation
> and knowledge acquisition !!
>
>
>
> In his book entitled "The English language", published in 1985, Robert
> Burchfield wrote: "Any literate, educated person on the face of the globe
> is in
> a very real sense deprived if he does not know English. Poverty, famine
> and
> disease are instantly recognized as the cruelest and least excusable
> forms
> of
> deprivation. Linguistic deprivation (English of course) is a less easily
> noticed condition, but one nevertheless of great significance." Well...
> NOT
> QUITE!
>
> In her book entitled: "The rape of imagination" ("Le viol de
> l'imaginaire"), the Malian Aminata Traor=E9 explains that, in Africa, the
> elite's
> minds have been reprogrammed in this fashion so much so that this
> so-called
> "elite" has now given up on the very principle of national preference in
> trade
> and commerce that was enforced up until recently in all African
> countries.
> In
> some of the poorest ones where misery, disease and famine often strike,
> the
> elite now denies preference to fellow citizens and national companies
> when
> it
> comes to spend tax revenues ! IMF economics and other tenets of free
> trade
> percolate so well through the acquisition of the
> English language that what was pragmatism before has now turned into
> ideology that people are eager to apply even when it leads to their own
> self-destruction ! What Aminata Traor=E9 calls "symbolic violence"
> destroys
> collective memory and imagination. For someone who studies it as a second
> language in most of the developing world, English quickly denies people
> the
> right to think for themselves by themselves. It results in cultural
> alienation
> and dispossession. In Africa more than anywhere else, the ideas that
> English=
>
> carries destroy solidarity and social cohesion, dumbing down people to
> the
> point where they accept western rules and regulations to organize their
> economic landscape even though local conditions totally prevent their
> application. Everywhere, the messages that English carries dispossess
> people of
> the rights to master they own destiny by turning them away from the very
> issues
> that are crucial to them. English is the medium of choice for
> globalization, by
> proceeding first with the brainwashing of the political and intellectual
> elite. Instead of resorting to expensive yet ineffective measures against
> distasteful cultural invasion and economic exploitation through
> globalization,
> these can best be fought off by eliminating English as a second
> language. In=
>
> that sense, English appears to be more a disease than a blessing for
> "international communication" ! In 1996, the Miss Universe pageant in
> India
> triggered a tide of protests from
> nationalist Hindus and feminist organizations. In lieu of a declaration
> of dissent, an Indian tailor died by setting fire to himself and
> throughout
> the
> country, thousands of street demonstrators were arrested. A few days ago,
> the
> same pageant got under fire from fundamentalists Muslims in Nigeria but
> the
> true nature of the protest was not about women nor feminism, it was about
> cultural intrusion, unwanted westernization and economic colonization.
> Again,
> the eradication of English in those two countries would be a lot more
> effective
> as English indeed carries the germs and the means of what boils down to
> mind=
>
> enslavement.
>
>
>
>
>
> Still inexistent a few years ago, this type of awareness is on the rise
> in former British colonies. In India, the English language has become the
> main
> target of the nationalists who want to eradicate its use totally from
> India.=
>
> A few years ago, M.Mulayam Singh Yadav, who was then defense minister
> vowed in Chennai (Madras) that his supporters and himself would not rest
> until
> English is totally eliminated from the country. On May 15, 2000, the
> American
> magazine "Newsweek" carried an article about the decision taken by the
> authorities in the State of Bengal to downgrade English to non official
> status
> for all official government transactions.
> At the Taiwan conference, someone pointed out to English as some sort of
> tool for modernization and economic progress. I immediately reacted to
> this
> by
> asking the audience to sample neighboring countries for their knowledge
> of
> English. "Who", I asked, "do you think scores best on English tests in
> southeast Asia ?". Obviously, The Philippinos come far ahead of everybody
> else
> in the area, in this respect. Yet, from an economic standpoint, the
> Philippines
> are a basket case. Another one of these stereotypes that we can undo so
> easily...
> We also have to deal with this other delusion that leads people who learn
> English as a second language to think that they, too, will be able to run
> some
> international organizations in the globalized new world order, through
> their=
>
> newly acquired English. The truth and the matter are that any
> international
> organization that uses English as its working language cannot help fall
> back=
>
> into the control of native English speakers. This can be easily verified
> whether the purpose is political, economic or scientific.
>
> The predominance of French in 18th century Europe helped Napoleon's
> armies conquer and loot a number of countries. With French came a steady
> stream
> of eager collaborators to the French rulers that Napoleon sprinkled all
> over=
>
> Europe. The idea that fighting the spread of French would weaken the
> French
> empire came naturally and French initiated its decline on the European
> scene=
>
> precisely at that time. Of course, French was at first used to coordinate
> military action against France. It was in those time the only foreign
> language
> that Austrians, British, Russians and Prussians would share at a
> level of fluency approaching that of their own mother tongue, a
> situation bearing little resemblance with what we have nowadays with the
> pidgin called "international English". It was in French that most of the
> European elite became politically conscious at that time and started
> rejecting
> the shackles of the French imperium.
>
> Whether English can play such a role to make American influence dwindle
> remains to be seen. English is to the brain what fast food is to the
> stomach,
> fulfilling basic needs, not aiming at elaborate thinking. However, it is
> quite
> obvious that the spread of English goes hand in hand with world
> colonization under American leadership that we call "globalization".
>
> English is of great help for the Americans to install the type of
> parasitic relationship that their country needs to keep on plundering
> world
> resources and collecting through the widespread use of an overvalued
> dollar
> a
> tribute on most developed nations.
>
> The belief that English is a neutral language that can help with
> international communication is just wishful thinking.
>
>
>
> Those who oppose US international politics often do not realize that they
> can already inflict serious economic damage upon their enemy by outlawing
> English in their own quarters.
>
> Saddam Hussein's Iraq has switched to the euro and a basket of other
> currencies for international trade to reduce its dependence on the dollar
> but
> it has not yet targeted English for elimination as a second language even
> though the generalization of the latter might be much more effective
> against=
>
> the US than the destruction of the twin towers in NYC.
>
> Any simple scholar previously anesthetized by American propaganda through
> the English language and awakening to reality would discover a totally
> different new world. Instead of a American "superpower", he would
> discern a
> bankrupt country that keeps on living on an ever growing pyramid of debt.
> Instead of a scientific powerhouse, he would discover engineers and
> researchers whose level in math and basic science does not even match
> that
> of a
> candidate to a Bachelor's of science degree in modern Japan. In lieu of a
> terrifying military force, he would find out that at least half of the
> so-called smart and surgical weapons of the American arsenal do not even
> work
> and that the soldiers who man that big military establishment are scared
> shitless by the perspective of any military confrontation with a serious
> enemy
> on the battlefield. He would see that the best performance of the US army
> occurs when bombing civilians from an altitude of 30,000 feet. In
> "Setting
> up
> the monopoly of knowledge" ("La mise en place des monopoles du savoir"),
> I
> demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that the widespread use of the
> English
> language in scientific and technological fields in countries where
> English
> is
> not a national language results in the pirating by English-speaking
> nations,=
>
> particularly the USA, of their best scientific accomplishments. For
> reasons
> that I explained in the book, it also tends to
> dry up creativity and keep research efforts within lines defined mostly
> in the US, therefore reducing further the visibility of the non American
> scientists. English also allows anglophone nations to rewrite the
> history of=
>
> scientific developments to a certain extent by crediting native English
> speakers with the most important discoveries and inventions. Little by
> little,
> we learn that ONLY this marvel of socio-biological evolution that the
> Anglo-Saxon is after God is behind the creation of the modern world. That
> and
> many other "inconveniences" not listed here form what we call "the world
> of
> English" for those who did not have the divine privilege to be born of
> genuine
> English-speaking parents!
> It is no exaggeration to state that the world will definitely fare better
> when the spread of English will be limited to English-speaking countries
> only!!
>
>
> Charles Durand
>
> (Author of "La mise en place des monoples du savoir", L'Harmattan, ISBN:
> 2-7475-1771-3, Paris, 2002)
>
>
> El Ingl=E9s como idioma imperial
>
> Charles Durand (autor de "La mise en place des monopoles du savoir",
>
> L=B4Harmattan ISBN: 2-7475-1771-3, Par=EDs, 2002)
>
> Recientemente tuve la oportunidad de estar en una conferencia en el
> sureste de Asia sobre "Globalizaci=F3n, Lenguaje y Educaci=F3n". En esta
> oca=
> si=F3n
> entabl=E9 un caluroso debate con una dama de Malasia, que trabaja como
> profesora
> en una Universidad Isl=E1mica en su pa=EDs. Cuando supe que en esa
> universid=
> ad
> se
> usa el Ingl=E9s como el veh=EDculo de ense=F1anza m=E1s importante,
> a=FAn cu=
> ando el
> idioma nativo de los estudiantes y profesores es el Malayo, yo
> argument=E9
> que el
> idioma ingl=E9s frustra e incluso contradice, al menos parcialmente, los
> objetivos propuestos por quienes crearon ese sistema educativo.
>
>
>
>
>
> El ingl=E9s es considerado por muchos como una especie de Esperanto,
> a=FAn
> cuando sus cualidades est=E1n muy lejos de las del Esperanto, que fue
> dise=F1=
> ado
> para la comunicaci=F3n internacional y puede ser perfectamente aprendido
> en
> menos
> del 10% del tiempo requerido para adquirir un segundo idioma. Pero el
> principal
> problema del ingl=E9s tiene muchas aristas. El ingl=E9s es el
> instrumento de=
>  la
> m=E1s
> horrenda m=E1quina de propaganda nunca antes concebida por el hombre. A
> diferencia de otros idiomas "mundiales", el universo del habla inglesa
> gira
> alrededor de un solo pa=EDs: Los Estados Unidos de Am=E9rica, cuyas
> intencio=
> nes
> en
> el escenario mundial no han sido nunca tan claramente expresadas.
>
> No existe ninguna compa=F1=EDa estadounidense de televisi=F3n ni ning=FAn
> peri=F3dico estadounidense distribuido universalmente, que no contenga un
> mensaje
> tendiente a la implementaci=F3n de las ambiciones estadounidenses en el
> extranjero.
>
> Cualquier estudiante en el mundo que estudie el ingl=E9s como segundo
> idioma, utilizando este tipo de material, tiende a simpatizar con las
> ideas
> estadounidenses sobre como arreglar el mundo en una "forma sutil" que
> autom=E1ticamente viene a servir los intereses de Estados Unidos.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lo interesante de observar todo esto es que, gradualmente, alguien fuera
> de los Estados Unidos que est=E9 expuesto a este tipo de propaganda va a
> desarrollar una visi=F3n del mundo casi, casi como la de un
> estadounidense. =
> En
> otras palabras, aun si la opini=F3n norteamericana acerca del pa=EDs XYZ
> es
> fuertemente parcializada, el estudiante del idioma ingl=E9s en ese pa=EDs
> interiorizar=E1 una opini=F3n similar. Si para los estadounidenses el
> pa=EDs=
>  XYZ
> est=E1
> en la lista negra, el estudio del ingl=E9s usando recortes de prensa y
> material
> audiovisual ordinarios har=EDa que ese estudiante observara a su propio
> pa=ED=
> s
> con
> gafas distorsionadas. As=ED, =E9l terminar=EDa haciendo suyos los mismos
> estereotipos.
>
>
>
> Si la prensa estadounidense decreta que la persona promedio de un pa=EDs
> es.un tipo grosero e incivilizado, lo m=E1s seguro es que nuestro
> estudiante=
>
> de
> idioma ingl=E9s compartir=E1 esa misma opini=F3n.
>
> Si se evaluara a la industria aeroespacial brasile=F1a con ayuda de los
> medios de informaci=F3n estadounidenses, concluir=EDamos que esa
> actividad e=
> s un
> gran desperdicio de dinero. Si observamos las tentativas de las naciones
> no
> alineadas para obtener una fuerza de defensa moderna, bien equipada y
> bien
> entrenada, el estudiante de ingl=E9s tender=EDa a colocarlas en la lista
> neg=
> ra.
> =A1Esa es la belleza de la propaganda "americana"! Ella trabaja re-
> programando la
> mente de las personas a trav=E9s de la adquisici=F3n del ingl=E9s como
> un se=
> gundo
> idioma. Usted paga para que le laven el cerebro y se siente feliz con
> ello.
> Claro que est=E1n aquellos que leen los escritos de Noam Chomsky, Susan
> Sontag,
> Lester Thurow, Howard Zinn, Lindon La Rouche, the Workers World o James
> Petras;
> pero apuesto a que estos no son parte del material de ense=F1anza que se
> usa=
> n
> en
> los centros culturales estadounidenses, ni en los centros similares del
> Consulado Brit=E1nico. Usar el Ingl=E9s para promover una especie de
> educaci=
> =F3n
> libre de los valores estadounidenses es un ejercicio de auto derrota. Es
> de
> alguna forma divertido observar c=F3mo, algunos de los que se han
> organizado=
>
> para
> reducir la influencia estadounidense sobre la mente de las personas,
> frecuentemente han seleccionado al ingl=E9s para llevar su mensaje.
> Incluso
> se da
> esa situaci=F3n con personas que consideran abiertamente a los Estados
> Unido=
> s=A1
> como su peor enemigo! El hecho es que el Ingl=E9s moderno es una camisa
> de
> fuerza mental mientras que la intenci=F3n es la emancipaci=F3n mental y
> adquisici=F3n
> de conocimiento!
>
> En su libro titulado "The English Language", publicado en 1985, Robert
> Burchfield escribi=F3: "Cualquier erudito o persona educada sobre la faz
> de =
> la
> tierra es, en un sentido muy real, un desheredado si no tiene
> conocimiento
> del
> ingl=E9s. La pobreza, el hambre y la enfermedad son instant=E1neamente
> reconocidos
> como las formas m=E1s crueles y menos excusables de carencias. La
> carencia
> ling=FC=EDstica (del ingl=E9s por supuesto) es la m=E1s dif=EDcil de
> disting=
> uir, no
> obstante, es la de mayor significaci=F3n" Bueno, =A1No TANTO...!
>
> En su libro titulado "The rape of imagination" ("La violaci=F3n de la
> imaginaci=F3n") Aminata Traore originario de Mal=ED, explica que en
> =C1frica=
>  las
> mentes de la elite han sido re-programadas en esta moda, tanto as=ED que
> la
> llamada "elite" ha cedido en el principio de la preferencia nacional en
> intercambio y comercio que se ha sido forzado impuesto recientemente a
> los
> pa=EDses africanos. En algunos de los m=E1s pobres donde la miseria, la
> enfermedad
> y la inanici=F3n golpean frecuentemente, la elite ahora niega preferencia
> alguna
> por sus compatriotas o por compa=F1=EDas nacionales cuando se trata de
> gasta=
> r
> los
> ingresos por impuestos. Los principios econ=F3micos del FMI y otros
> dogmas d=
> el
> libre intercambio se filtran muy bien a trav=E9s de la adquisici=F3n del
> idi=
> oma
> ingl=E9s, que lo que antes era pragmatismo ahora se ha convertido en
> ideolog=
> =EDa
> que la gente tiene m=E1s deseo de aplicar a=FAn cuando los lleve a su
> propia=
>
> destrucci=F3n. Lo que Aminata Traor=E9 llama "violencia simb=F3lica"
> destruy=
> e la
> memoria y la imaginaci=F3n colectiva. Para alguien que lo estudia como
> segun=
> do
> idioma en la mayor=EDa de los pa=EDses desarrollados, el ingl=E9s
> r=E1pidame=
> nte
> niega a
> las personas el derecho de pensar por ellos mismos y para ellos mismos.
> Sus
> resultados son alineaci=F3n cultural. En =C1frica m=E1s que en cualquier
> lug=
> ar,
> las
> ideas que el ingl=E9s trae destruyen la solidaridad y la cohesi=F3n
> social,
> idiotizando a las personas al punto de que llegan a aceptar las reglas y
> modos
> de Occidente para organizar la econom=EDa de sus naciones, aunque las
> condiciones locales sean opuestas a su aplicaci=F3n. En todo lugar, los
> mensajes
> que el ingl=E9s trae consigo privan a los pueblos de decidir su propio
> destino,
> apart=E1ndolos de los problemas que son fundamentales para ellos. El
> ingl=E9=
> s es
> el medio para optar por la globalizaci=F3n, procediendo primero al
> lavado de=
>
> cerebro de la =E9lite pol=EDtica e intelectual. En lugar de gastar
> recursos =
> en
> medidas ineficaces en contra de la invasi=F3n cultural y explotaci=F3n
> econ=F3mica a
> trav=E9s de la globalizaci=F3n, una soluci=F3n m=E1s eficaz a este
> problema =
> podr=EDa
> ser
> eliminar al ingl=E9s como un segundo idioma. En este sentido el ingl=E9s
> vie=
> ne a
> ser m=E1s parecido a un padecimiento que a una bendici=F3n para la
> "comunica=
> ci=F3n
> internacional"! En 1996, el evento de Miss Universo en la India trajo
> consigo
> una serie de protestas de parte de nacionalistas hind=FAes y
> organizaciones
> feministas. En lugar de una declaraci=F3n de resistencia, un hind=FA
> muri=F3=
>
> despu=E9s
> de prenderse fuego, y cientos participantes fueron arrestados. Hace
> poco, el=
>
> mismo concurso estuvo en la picota por parte de fundamentalistas
> musulmanes
> en
> Nigeria; pero la verdadera raz=F3n de la protesta no ten=EDa que ver
> directamente
> ni con las mujeres ni con el feminismo sino con la invasi=F3n cultural,
> la
> occidentalizaci=F3n y la colonizaci=F3n econ=F3mica. Una vez m=E1s, la
> errad=
> icaci=F3n
> del
> ingl=E9s en esos dos pa=EDses hubiera sido mucho m=E1s eficaz para el
> logro =
> de
> esos
> objetivos, ya que el ingl=E9s trae consigo el germen de la esclavitud
> mental=
> .
>
> Charles Durand
> (Autor de "La mise en place des monopoles du savoir", L=B4Harmattan,
> ISBN:
> 2-7475-1771-3, Paris, 2002.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:21:27 +0100
> From:    Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Opinion re le anglese prendite de un phoro esperantista
>
> "Javi Lz. Est=E9vez" wrote:
>
> > Io ha legite iste intervention in un phoro esperantista e io crede que
> =
> illo
> > pote interessar vos, iste littera es in anglese e etiam in espaniol:
>
> In qual foro? Forsan io debe participar le discussion... An le mesme
> mess=
> age
> anque era scripte in esperanto. Qual labor del autor!
>
> >
> > De:  "ruben feldman" <rufegon@m...>
> > Fecha:  mar dic 24, 2002  9:57 am
> > Asunto:  La angla kiel imperiisma lingvo
> >
> > Empireal English
>
> Le facto que iste texto es citate in anglese e non in esperanto dice
> multo. Si, pro exemplo, le texto haberea essite scribite in le lingua
> occidental e anglese, on poterea ben citar le texto occidental in iste
> foro, e illo esserea comprensibile. Per consequente, si: Le anglese es
> un sorta de esperanto que functiona enormemente ben, forsan
> particularmente pro le facto que le lingua es particularmente facile,
> ma pro le facto que per le tempore il ha multe personas qui lo sape e
> qui functiona como un transmissor inter le cultura anglese e le varie
> altere linguas del mundo.
>

Kjell faceva un multo apte observation, que iste articulo per Durand es in
anglese e espaniol, le duo major linguas international in le mundo.  Io
suppone que sr. Durand se preoccupa con le conspirationes de major poteres
contra que ille lucta como un Don Quixote.  Si su message es acceptate per le
esperantistas, il esserea solmente proque illes jam refusa acceptar le facto
que linguas es extendite a altere nationes e culturas a causa del cultura que
los porta.  Io pote imaginar alcun scriba in Gallia in 100 e.c. qui essaya
scriber in latino que su compatriotas non debe educar se in le scholas roman,
usa le latino in commercio, proque il esseva le imperialismo de Roma que se
impone super lor societate quando illes usa le latino e non le linguas
indiginente, etc. etc.  Le facto es que le Gallianos jam accipeva multe
aspectos del cultura roman ante que le romanos in effecto les conquireva
militarimente. Le cultura roman esseva vidite como desirabile. Quando le
francos ha conquirite le latinizate Gallia, illes prendeva le lingua latin
e se adaptava al structuras cultural jam establite. Le latino non esseva
solmente le lingua de un poter militar, mais un lingua de lor religion del
christianitate.  Con respecto al esperantistas, si illes accipe le message
de Durand, illes ignora le facto que il es le globalization que es
facilitate per le dissemination del anglese que facerea possibile le idea
de un lingua international pro tote le mundo.  Le problema es que le
esperantistas ora vide le anglese como un major concurrente. Mais
esperanto non ha le poter cultural pro servir in le numerose modos que
le anglese servi in le globalization.  On non pote apprender le scientia
currente in esperanto. Le armas le plus sophisticate es fabricate per
companias in que e anglese es le lingua principal. Le melio medicina
es europee o american, e frequentemente le anglese es le medio commun.
Le professores american e brittanic (e europee) es invitate a altere
paises pro inseniar lor scientia e ingenieria.  Illes non es inviate la
per un poter imperialist. Le gentes de aquelle paises vole apprender
lor scientia e lor ingenieria.  E pro iste mesme ration illes invia lor
filios e filias a America e Brittania pro educar les in le scientias e
le ingenieria. Si le parentes de iste filios non credeva que il ha valor
in facer lo, illes non inviarea lor filios a la.

  Isto non debe esser factos discoragiante pro interlinguaistas. Interlingua
es portate per su linguas contribuente. Le internationalismo de interlingua
es basate super le internationalismos in su linguas contribuente.
Interlingua non es necessemente designate pro devenir le sol lingua del
mundo. De facto su existentia es independente de qualcunque uso que
illo habera: illo es justo le vocabulario international standardizate in
un maniera objective del vocabulario commun a tres o plus linguas del
linguas principal de europa.  Il es  un  accidento del historia que il
ha un tal deposito de parolas commun con ancestres commun que face
possibile un lingua como interlingua como un extraction e mediarization
de iste linguas.  Mais como un accidente, il es un facto que le influentia
de Roma como un imperio, del Ecclesia Catholic que supervive Roma,
le influentia del latino medieval in le dissemination de scientia e artes, e
su uso in le renascentia per homines educate es le causas commun de iste
deposito international. Illo es le resto commun de un gradual expansion de
un cultura que ora ha explodite in le globalization contemporanee.  Nos usa
interlingua proque illo ha characteristicas desirabile que da un avantage:
immediate recognoscibilitate e comprension per milliones de gentes, un facile
grammatica, un vocabulario familiar in que iste cultura global pensa e
labora, un ponte al linguas contribuente de Europa.


Stan Mulaik