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Subject:
From:
Allan Kiviaho <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
INTERLNG: Discussiones in Interlingua
Date:
Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:25:35 +0200
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (219 lines)
- - -

Allan Kiviaho:

Si io ha comprendite correctemente, Ingvar Stenström
suggereva que le phonemo s^ (s sibilate) deberea
semper esser presentate con ch.

Sed como distinguer ch=s^ e ch=k?

Forsan mesmo in Interlingua on deberea considerar
que regulas son necesse que un scannator texto-phono
poterea decider, quando ch=s^ e quando ch=k. Un caso
como lead (led, plumbo) - lead (liid, verbo sed mesmo
substantivo, "have a lead in a competition") in
anglese es quasi impossibile a solver.

    A proposito, il ha mesmo in svedese al minus un
    caso peculiar:
    kort (carta [e.g. carta de joco]) es pronunciate
      como "kuurt"
    kort (breve, CURTE) ha un CURTE pronunciation
      "kort" (benque "o" deberea essite pronunciate
      como "u")

"sh" pro s^ ha le grave defecto que il ha parolas ubi
s-h es pronunciate distinctivemente, e.s. Mashadov, le
presidente de Czeczenia. Illo es Mas-hadov, non
Maschadov (germano), Masjadov (svedese) etc.

    Pro me sz pro s^ (como in polonese) esserea un bon
    solution sed illo facerea Interlingua un pauc
    nimis innatural (= nimis nonromanic). Totevia io
    pensa que sz deberea in ordine in translitteration
    inter alphabetos latin - cyrillic - latin.
    Vide
    http://www.interlingua.fi/gbul/gfcyri.htm
    sh pro s^ in translitteration latin-cyrillic-latin
    es un impossibilitate proque il ha multe parolas
    e.g. in russo con s-h distinctive (vos-hod -
    levation, prevos-hodnyj - excellente, etc.)

Forsan in Interlingua proprie s^ poterea semper esser
ch. Sed isto crear un altere grande problema. Il ha
multe parolas ubi ch es pronunciate como "k".

Como pote un povre interlinguista distinguer quando on
debe pronunciar
  "ch" = "s^" e quando
  "ch" = "k"  e quando
  "ch" = "tch" (o "tsh")?

In le IED on trova nulle parolas que comencia con
"Tch-". In connexion del conferentia de UMI in
Bulgaria in 2003 alicun interlinguistas, mesmo Ingvar
Stenström, translitterava c^ con "tch". Tch es forsan
in ordine sed illo es ineconomic (3 litteras, secundo
un principio le longor maxime de litteras latin pro un
littera cyrillic deberea esser 2). "cz" es un bon
solution. Illo es usate in polonese e germano.
    Vide
    http://www.interlingua.fi/gbul/gfcyri.htm

Si io ha comprendite correctemente, in le IED "ch" es
pronunciate como "k", si non mentionate alteremente.

Sed, quando un finno vide in le IED e.g. le parola
    chic = [F] n chic
como pote ille saper que iste parola es pronunciate
como "shik" (szik)? Bon, bon, bon, [F] indica que illo
es un parola prestate ex francese. Quando Interlingua
era developpate, omne homines educate sapeva que
chic es shik. Sed hodie le vaste majoritate de
europeos non maestra francese. Un medie juvene finno
pensa: "Chic"? Aha, "Chicken Nuggett", assi "tchik".

E chef [F]? Un juvene moderne pensa "chief", assi
tchef!

Forsan on deberea definir:

1. "ch" es principalmente pronunciate in interlingua
    como "k" salvo

2. "sh" (sz) e "h" in parolas que son distinctivemente
   marcate.

====================================================
"ch" pronunciate como "h" in interlingua (IED)
"sch" pronunciate como "sh/sz" in interlingua (IED)
"tsch" pronunciate como "sh/sz" in interlingua (IED)
====================================================

Aachen (Aahhen)
champion (tshämpiön/czämpiön)
cheque = (tshec - o shec?)
kirschwasser (kirshvasser/kirszvasser) (sch = sh/sz)
lunch (lantch)
lunchar (lantchar o luntchar?)
match (match o mätch?)
München (Münhhen/Münhyen)
pechblende (pehblende)
putsch (putsh/pucz) (tsch = tsh/cz)
Reich (raih)
Reichstag (raikstag)
sandwich (sändwitch)
scottisch (skottish/skottisz)
speech (spiitch)
steeplechase (stiipltcheis)
yacht (yaht o yot?)

====================================================
"ch" pronunciate como "sh" (sz) in interlingua (IED)
====================================================

attach (attash)
avalanche (avalansh)

baston de marechal (baston de mareshal)
brochar (broshar)
broche (brosh)
brochure (broshür)

chacos (shacos)
chaise (shees)
chaise longue (shees long)
chaise de bracios (shees de bratsios)
chaise rolante (shees rolante)
chal (shaal)
chalet (shalee)
chalupa (shalupa)
Champagne (shampanj)
champignon (shampinyon)
chanfrenar (shanfrenar)
chanfreno (shanfreno)
chaperon (shaperon)
chaperonage (shaperonaje)
chaperonar (shaperonar)
char à banc (shar a banc)
charade (sharaad)
charivari (sharivari)
charlatan (sharlatan)
charmante (sharmante)
charmar (sharmar)
charme (sharm)
charpa (sharpa)
chartreuse (shartrös)
chassa de anates (shassa -)
chassator (shassator)
chassis (shassii)
chauffeur (shoför)
chef (shef)
chenille (shenil)
chic (shic)
chiffonier (shiffonieer)
chimpanze (shimpanze)
choc (shoc)
choccante (shoccante)
choccar (shoccar)
chocolate (shocolate)
cliché (clishee)
cornichon (cornishon)
crep de Chine (crep de shin)
crochet (croshee)

depeche (depesh)
distachamento (distashamento)
distachar (distashar)

echelon (eshelon)

fetiche (fetish)
fichu (fishüü)

lancha (lansha)

manchette (manshet)
marechal (mareshal)

niche (nish)
nonchalance (nonshalans)
nonchalant (nonshalant)

pluche (plüsh)
punch (pansh, assi non pantsh!)

- - -

In le grande dictionario svedese - interlingua de Pian
Boalt on ha:
  chimera (shimera), chimeric (shimeric), chimerisar
  (shimerisar)

Io pensa que le correcte pronunciation es
  kimera, kimerik, kimerisar.

- - -

Salutante

Allan Kiviaho

=============================================
Kiviaho Allan
SILY - Suomen Interlinguayhdistys ry.
FILF - Föreningen för Interlingua i Finland
AFIL - Association Finlandese pro Interlingua
Kivimäentie 16 E. FIN-01620 VANTAA. Finlandia
http://www.interlingua.fi
http://www.interlingua.dk/2001.htm
http://www.interlingua.com
Tel. + 358 - 09 - 898 720
GSM  + 358 - 050 - 3433 338 (Allan Kiviaho)
GSM  + 358 - 050 - 3616 759 (Brita-Lisa K.)
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