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Subject:
From:
"Mulaik, Stanley A" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Stanley Mulaik <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 16 May 2010 02:25:40 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
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Josu,
  Io pensa que tu "regula de duo" es superflue quando nos jam
pote cercar inter le variantes pro un solution quando il non ha
tres variantes in le linguas fontes. In mesmo alcun casos il es
solmente necesse usar un sol variante pro determinar un
prototypo. Assi un regula de duo pote esser un de plure sub le
regula que on pote usar un technica supplementari quando il non
ha tres variantes con un prototypo commun mais cata un con le
mesme senso.  Isto es un "technica supplementari", e le exemplo
canonic de illo es le caso de 'flammifero':

Del discurso de Dr. Gode al Modern Language Association in Nove
York in 1954:

"Le problema aqui non esseva concipite como le requirement de
clarificar un date concepto e de alora prover pro illo un
termino satisfacente. Il esseva plus tosto construite como
requierer le cerca pro un nove puncto de vista que permitterea a
nos le uso del methodos jam establite a render le formas
requirite.  Pro numerose conceptos cuje internationalitate non
poteva esser dubitate isto esseva attingite per simplemente
considerar plus vetere nivellos del linguas fontal, a vices
vadente directemente al latino. Plus frequentemente illo esseva
facite per examinar e in un certe maniera selectionar a partir
del varie formas representate un date concepto international in
le linguas fontal.  Per exemplo, le concepto representate in le
anglese per 'safety match' es clarmente international, mais su
formas in plure linguas fontal es totemente divergente. Pois que
nos es preoccupate con  le problema del elaboration de un
vocabulario international valide, nos poterea probar le varie
formas del linguas fontal pro lor potentialitates international.
Le espaniol 'cerillas' poterea esser imitate in anglese pro alque
como 'waxlet' (ceres parve) o francese 'cirette', mais ni le un
ni le altere portarea le requirite senso mesmo in contexto.
Probante altere possibilitates in un maniera similar on es
destinate a arrivar al conclusion que le italian 'fiammifero' ha
un grado de potentia expressive international. In anglese illo
apparerea como 'flame-bearer' o simplemente 'lucifer', que es
excellente. Mais le puncto plus importante es que iste termino
pote esser construite jam in le establite vocabulario
international per medio de elementos jam international [p.e.,
flamma + -fero'. Le parola de interlingua pro anglese 'match' es
'flammifero'."



"The problem here was not envisaged as amounting to the
requirement  of clarifying a given  concept and of then
providing for it a  satisfactory term.  It was rather construed
as  requiring the search  for a new view point which would
permit the established methodology  to  yield the forms wanted.
 For numerous concepts whose internationality  could not be 
doubted this was achieved by simply taking into  consideration
older levels of the source  languages, sometimes going  straight
back to Latin. ***More frequently it was done by  examining and
in a way by choosing among the various forms representing a
given   international concept in the source languages.***  For
instance the  concept represented in  English by 'safety match'
is clearly  international, but its forms in the several source 
languages are  totally divergent.  Since we are here concerned
with the problem of  the  elaboration of an internationally
valid vocabulary, we might test  the various  source-language
forms in their international  potentialities.  The Spanish
'cerillas' might  be imitated in English as  something like waxlet
or in French as cirette, but neither of  these  could carry the
required meaning even in context.  Testing the other
 possibilities  in a similar way one is bound to emerge with the
 conclusion that the italian fiammifero  has a fair degree of
 international expressive potency.  In English it would appear
as   flame-bearer or simply as lucifer, which is quite
excellent.  But the  more' important  point is that this term
can be built into the already,  established international 
vocabulary by means of available elements.   The Interlingua
word for 'match' is  flammifero. "

=========================

Il es periculose a indicar que on necessita solmente duo variantes
pro establir un forma international.  Si nos usa isto, il es
necesse que il ha plus que tres linguas fontal con le mesme
senso, malgrado le facto que il ha solmente duo con un
prototypo commun.  Le question de forma de un parola international
es semper subordinate al determination que il ha tres variantes
o plus con le mesme senso. Isto es importante pro evitar
parolas de sensos idiosyncratic unic a duo linguas fontal.

Nonobstante, io ha discoperite in le dictionario italiano
Zingarelli que le antique italiano ha le parola '†regretto' 
del francese 'regret' con le senso de 'rammaricarsi' que ha 
le requirite senso del anglese 'regret', e verbal e substantival.
Io crede que isto ha permittite a IALA a selectionar 'regretto'
e per retroformation 'regrettar' in le vocabulario international.

Stan




----- Josu Lavin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Car amicos,
> 
> Post vider le opiniones super REGRET, REGRETTAR, REGRETTABILE e multe casos simile le UNIC SOLUTION es le REGULA DE DUO:
> 
> 1. anglese 
> 2. espaniol/portugese
> 3. italiano e 
> 4. francese.
> 
> Le presentia in duo de iste quatro gruppos serea sufficiente pro le acceptation del parolas e phrases international.
> 
> NOS NECESSITA UN REGULA CLAR E DEFINITIVE.
> 
> Imbracios amical
> 
> Josu Lavin

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