>>>Nonne, io manca de moneta. Io manca.
Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>:
>> I seem to remember discussing your use of "nonne" in this manner.
>> Mark that down as another Mulaikism.
05:29 30-11-2015, Stanley Mulaik:
>E tu non ha Thomasismos? Remarcabile!
>
>Vide le IED a 'nonne' e [nonne]. Illo es un particula interrogative.
[non-ne?] {interr part} is it not?; il es ver, nonne? it is true,
is'nt it?, isn't that so?
>Mais a cata interrogative, il ha un echo negative: nonne? nonne!
Nonne? No!
Nonne? Si!
'Nonne' pro me es un contraction de 'non es'. 'Năo é' in
portugese es usate in le mesme maniera. Sempre al fin del phrase,
non in le initio.
> > "I am missing of money" "I am missing""I am deficient of
> money""I am
> > deficient."
> > > Mais le definition non indica que es le subjecto de iste verbo.
> > It absolutely does. You're just not seeing it.
>
>No, you are not seeing both alternative ways of expressing being
>lacking:
>The one who lacks and the thing that lacks.
>
>I am not arguing that you must give up the way you use
>'mancar'. I am
>saying there is ALSO another way that is also legitimate.
>
> > The fact that it it says to *be* deficient and to *be*
> lacking is a
> > hint that it's not simply "to lack" but more of an adjective-like
> > use of "deficient". Just about the only way to use deficient
> as an
> > attribtutive adjective is in the way that means "insufficient".
> > Couple this with the example of "to be missing" - and the
> only way
> > for this to make sense is if the intention was for the subject of
> > mancar to be the thing which is missing.
>
>But in English because of the transitive case, "He lacks money",
>He is
>the subject and he lacks, and what he lacks is money.
>So, it is important to help anglos to make the expressions
>intransitive,
>but still leave the subject as the one who lacks. He lacks
>of/in money.
>
> > Couple this with the fact that just about every other
> Interlinguan in
> > the world seems to have figured this out, that should be
> enough to
> > encourage you to go back and re-read the definition the other
> way.
> > > In anglese, si "I lack money", 'I' es le subjecto, le uno qui
> > > manca.
> > Very true, well, except for your misuse of "manca" above.
> > Consider, however, that "manca" does not mean "I lack" but "I am
> > lacking" - and there's no object.
>
>While you wait for me to go back and reread the definition
>again, suppose
>you look up in your French dictionary (in French) and Italian
>dictionary
>(in Italian) how they use their variants of 'mancar'. This is not
>exclusively a prototype situation but a grammatical one.
>
> > In English, if you say "I am lacking" - nobody would know
> what you're
> > talking about.
>
>But they would then ask you,"What is it you are lacking?" They
>still
>see the subject, YOU, as the one who is lacking something.
>
>
>But we can talk grammatically about the one who lacks as the
>subject.
>
> > > Isto non es le mesme como "It lacks money for him." "It" es
> > > impersonal pronomine.
> > This tangent is probably a red herring since English doesn't
> have an
> > explicit impersonal pronoun.
>
>Nonne! "It is raining". "It is hot". "It seems that ...."
>
>
> > > "For him, money lacks."
> > [* is lacking/missing/insufficient]
> > Yes, and this is the correct situation to use mancar -- Pro ille,
> > manca le pecunia.
> >
> > > "He lacks of good upbringing and manners,"
> > He is missing of good upbringing.Not a situation where you
> can use
> > mancar with Ille as the subject.
> > > "He lacks in understanding German".
> > He is missing in understanding German.Another situation where
> ille
> > can't be the subject.
> > > "Klingons lack empathy", (Klingons manca del empathia), o
> "Klingons
> > > are lacking in empathy".> "Klingons" es le subjecto del verbo.
> > > Tu non pote evitar iste facto.
> > Assuming that "tu" means "Thomas" here and not "one" or
> "people in
> > general" - I absolutely avoid your conclusion. The IED
> doesn't allow
> > you to translate "Klingons lack" as "Klingons manca" - unless
> you're
> > trying to say that the klingons are missing.
>
>Si, mais Klingones manca DE empathia.
>
>
> > >> And it’s not so much a question of transitive or
> intransitive,>>
> > >> but of what the word means.>> The subject of the verb
> “mancar”
> > >> is the thing that is missing.>> Ubi dice isto in le
> definition?
> > >> Que es le subjecto del verbo?
> > For starters, it's in the definition of "to be missing" when used
> > without an object.
> > > Usar le verbo in anglese in un tal maniera que> le moneta es le
> > > subjecto del verbo.
> > I could make up an example, or I could use one from
> dictionary.com:
> > "Three votes are lacking to make a decision."
> > Considering that my explanation is compatible with what the
> IED says
> > and with how people use the verb, and also considering that your
> > explanation is incompatible with examples using "to be
> missing" as
> > specified in IED, I have come to the conclusion that you're
> mistaken
> > here.
> > Thomas
>
>The problem is, Thomas, I can see your way of expressing
>'mancar' and regard
>it as correct while you can't see how several languages leave
>the subject
>as the one who/which lacks (of) whatever alongside your favored
>expression.
>And further we interlinguaists can do the same.
>
>The irony for me is that most of you can get all bent out of
>shape when
>I express things in a certain way that you think is wrong, but
>when I
>want to point out some things in the IED as wrong by being
>inconsistent with
>the methods described in its Introduction, you climb all over me.
>We haven't done the way you say for 50 years!
>
>Time still doesn't matter, because what matters is what the
>authorities in
>governments, in schools, will want, and if you are not true to
>your principles
>because you never knew what they were, they are going to throw
>it back
>in your face. Read the Introduction to the IED and understand it.
>Interlingua has become too Occidentalized. Interlingua is not an
>Occidental.
>
>Cordially, and with exasperation,
>
>Stan Mulaik
>
>
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