This is a list of and for gestalt therapists and those interested in gestalt therapy theory and its applications to organizational development and coaching.
… I would have sent this to my brother and we would have marveled at it. But he’s gone home. I HAD to share this with someone, so you all are IT. Ronnie Scott’s is a jazz club that Jeff Beck did a few days at once, always tense with pressure with each show and only when the last note was done did he find relief. When you watch them having fun, it’s hard to believe that Jeff Beck is paying close attention to everything so that he doesn’t lose his place. On the last night he looked up to
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 01:09, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> … I would have sent this to my brother and we would have marveled at it. > But he’s gone home. I HAD to share this with someone, so you all are IT. > Ronnie Scott’s is a jazz club that Jeff Beck did a few days at once, always > tense with pressure with each show and only when the last note was done did > he find relief. When you watch them having fun, it’s hard to believe that >
*Really made my morning! I'm sure your brother would enjoy :)*
Charlie
*"For green grass and clean rivers, children with bright eyes and good color, and people safe from being pushed around – for a few things like these, I find I am pretty ready to think away most other political,** economic, and technological advantages." - Paul Goodman, 1970*
It’s a work in progress–the classic statement, right? What am I talking about? I am building a site where I can meet and work with people. The site is postsecularpsychotherapy.com. <http://postsecularpsychotherapy.com/>
I have chosen a number of capabilities for this site, all of which make it possible for people to join and work together on various projects, engage in conversations and discussions, and make specific their interests. Obviously, the overall site is about post-secular thought and its implications, but I have created three groups that members can join to either refine that interest or expand it, depending on one’s activities.
From the New York Times: “ The multiracial, predominantly working-class group of Americans who have soured on mainstream politics and modern liberalism are not all hateful and ignorant. They are frustrated, and their political loyalties are up for grabs.”
It’s what really motivates the Trump supporters and has all along.
Hello. I am in the process of transitioning from Face Book, and although I’ll keep this list going, also from this list. I am focusing. I’ve got (who knows) maybe… MAYBE ten years left? (My dad died at 84). So, I am doing two things that are connected. I am creating a web site and a Substack account. The website is postsecularpsychotherapy.com, and the Substack is titled Postseculastonishing. I have a proposal for a book now being considered at Routledge, but if they don’t accept it, I will serialize it at Substack. I will write and develop community at both
Fritz Perls died 54 years ago today. If you met him, you are no longer young.
In 1967, at age 19, I made a pilgrimage to the Esalen Institute in Big Sur. I was not admitted, because I had no business to be there. Back then- I was enamored with Will Schutz, the major Encounter Group proponent. I learned more about Gestalt Therapy and Fritz the following year.
*"For green grass and clean rivers, children with bright eyes and good color, and people safe from being pushed around – for a few things like these, I find I am pretty ready to think away most other political,** economic, and technological advantages." - Paul Goodman, 1970*
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 2:23 AM Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
What are you gonna do about this? If I were more disciplined, learned, less stupid, and more focused I would maybe submit some thing from the Gestalt Therapy field emergent perspective.
But I'm not.
> On Mar 12, 2024, at 1:12 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > <CfP_Metaphysics_and_and_Method_in_Modern.pdf>
Dan. If YOU are not, what makes you think that I am? I am not in that league, or your league.
Besides, I have four books to write, and they all keep yelling at me to quit clogging up the daily schedule with other stuff.
Phil
> On Mar 12, 2024, at 11:58 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Holy moley. > > This is hot. > > Luft is one of my heroes. > > What are you gonna do about this? If I were more disciplined, learned, less stupid, and more focused I would maybe submit some thing
"You can't love your country only when you win." --J. Biden, State of the Union, 3/7/24 Philip Brownell <https://www.facebook.com/philip.brownell?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDoxMDE2MjIyNDA4Mjk5NDM4NF8zNzQwODQ5MDg3MjU0MDA%3D&__cft__[0]=AZUfJvK7iTDc1o_FH7-NDi77LEGaiDsPhlrLi4P--wb5pZIKzK_KDYhU4FRyhBzUP6AWQu3wVkS0v6woZzQmG89S4dbUXLDNWwQsquB7DR4fSw&__tn__=R]-R> I am voting straight democrat this time. NOT because I have suddenly become a progressive. NOT because I think Biden is the best thing we could possibly put forward. NOT because I think the Republicans have been evil all along, and I just now woke up. In fact, I'm not "woke." I'm sickened by the turn to myopia and the obstructing of aid to Ukraine that has gripped the Republican party and by the partisan politics that plays games with our
On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 16:43, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> "You can't love your country only when you win." --J. Biden, State of the > Union, 3/7/24 > Philip Brownell > <https://www.facebook.com/philip.brownell?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDoxMDE2MjIyNDA4Mjk5NDM4NF8zNzQwODQ5MDg3MjU0MDA%3D&__cft__[0]=AZUfJvK7iTDc1o_FH7-NDi77LEGaiDsPhlrLi4P--wb5pZIKzK_KDYhU4FRyhBzUP6AWQu3wVkS0v6woZzQmG89S4dbUXLDNWwQsquB7DR4fSw&__tn__=R]-R> > I am voting straight democrat this time. NOT because I have suddenly > become a progressive. NOT because I think Biden is the best thing we could > possibly put forward. NOT because I think the Republicans have been evil > all along, and I just now woke up. In fact, I'm not "woke." I'm
On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 10:05 AM Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> That is a brave thing to say and do. > > Peter > > On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 16:43, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> "You can't love your country only when you win." --J. Biden, State of the >> Union, 3/7/24 >> Philip Brownell >> <https://www.facebook.com/philip.brownell?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDoxMDE2MjIyNDA4Mjk5NDM4NF8zNzQwODQ5MDg3MjU0MDA%3D&__cft__[0]=AZUfJvK7iTDc1o_FH7-NDi77LEGaiDsPhlrLi4P--wb5pZIKzK_KDYhU4FRyhBzUP6AWQu3wVkS0v6woZzQmG89S4dbUXLDNWwQsquB7DR4fSw&__tn__=R]-R> >> I am voting straight democrat this time. NOT because I have suddenly >> become a progressive. NOT because I think
“Do” what you think is best for you. If prayer and fasting are actions that you think might tilt the course of the universe, go for it. Yet it reminds of the “you are in my hopes and prayers” response to victims of gun violence.
I say this while maintaining my respect for your experience of being-in-the world-with-a god.
I understand — to the extent this ever possible — and value what is important to you.
I remember people who fasted and held vigils in protest of the Viet Nam War.
Dan
> On Mar 10, 2024, at 4:08 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dan > I did not say that was ALL that I am doing. I am also working on behalf of Ukraine. I am as I’ve said voting straight democrat. I am speaking my mind into whatever venue and medium I can. If there is something I CAN do, I am doing it. I
I honour your stance politically, and your loving commitment to Ukraine. I have just done a 3-day workshop online with people at the Kyiv Gestalt University and they are wonderful people.
I still have a BIG problem with 'God loves you anyway'. What do you believe your God's response would be when I die not believing he exists? If, like the majority of more fundamentalist Christians, you believe that I will be punished for eternity, then that, for me, is how the fundamentalists came to identify with Trump. They are both happy to receive praise and cheers and
Did you know that Georghiy Kushnir's son has volunteered to go to the front line? Georghiy and Katia are proud but worried of course.
Peter
On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 at 21:42, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Kyiv Gestalt University. Kyiv. Ukraine. Spectacular culture. Putin wants > to absorb them and appropriate their history and culture. To do that he > needs to strangle their identity. Wipe it out. That is genocide. I will > never forget them, nor the makeshift memorial to the dead of Bucha. Nor the > woman dancing to a guitar in the square down the
Dear Peter, I think your point/question is a very good one. I also think that many Christians do not explore the nuances of salvation like you do here. What you say extends to people who don’t believe in God, but it also applies to people who believe in a different God, or belong to a different group of people who believe in the same God. Muslims. Jews. Christians. They all believe in the same God. Do they go to church together? NO. Catholics and Protestants. Do THEY go to church together? No. Why not? Because people stumble over details of
On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 at 16:36, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Peter, > I think your point/question is a very good one. I also think that many > Christians do not explore the nuances of salvation like you do here. What > you say extends to people who don’t believe in God, but it also applies to > people who believe in a different God, or belong to a different group of > people who believe in the same God. Muslims. Jews. Christians. They all > believe in the
What makes the God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam the same? Each religion owns Him by referring to the history of that God with Abraham. Starts with Judaism, obviously, and with Abraham, but Christianity incorporates Tanak into the Christian Bible. Islam calls Him Allah, but makes Jesus a prophet of Allah. Certainly there are differences or else there would not be three religions. But the central idea of a religion is human relationship with God, and that God is the Abrahamic divinity. Spirit is the same concept (I developed this in my book Spiritual
"Space is nothing and has no properties”. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVQtvbiS4Y)
Watching a YouTube on space and time. This was one statement, and it caught my attention because we have asserted that there is no distance between objects and that all are connected in “the field.” But if the cosmos is expanding and the objects (i.e. galaxies) are moving away at increasing speed, leaving space in between, and space has no properties. It is nothing. Does that destroy our assertions that we are all connected?
Consider that there maybe no such thing as nothing
> On Feb 26, 2024, at 10:35 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > "Space is nothing and has no properties”. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVQtvbiS4Y <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVQtvbiS4Y>) > > Watching a YouTube on space and time. This was one statement, and it caught my attention because we have asserted that there is no distance between objects and that all are connected in “the field.” But if the cosmos is expanding and the objects (i.e. galaxies) are moving away at increasing speed, leaving space in between, and space has no properties. It is nothing. Does that
I watched more of the video. It got into quantum field theory and how what we experience emerges from the actions of the quantum field. But that brings to mind another thing. We don’t live AT the level of the quantum field; we live at the level of what emerges from it. We may live because of the quantum field, like the computer (Peter’s favorite illustration) functions at the level of the chips and so forth (I don’t know enough about the quantum field to be able to speak about it like Peter), but we don’t live at that level
Just to pick out a phrase that carries with it a bit of a problem (and I may paraphrase a little):
“ what we experience of the actions of the quatum level ,,,” “briniging to mind” “we don’t live at a quantum level “We live at emerges
In the 4 phrases, above, the words “mind" and “live" appear twice, each, the word experience, once. The meanng of each is vast and includes systems and processes of neruo circuits, myriad fluids like hormones,and blood; plasma, conglomerates of cells that function in remarkable coordination with one another to create an organism. As
Yes (the music). It’s been awhile. Would like to see it again.
> On Feb 27, 2024, at 11:57 AM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Just to pick out a phrase that carries with it a bit of a problem (and I may paraphrase a little): > > “ what we experience of the actions of the quatum level ,,,” > “briniging to mind” > “we don’t live at a quantum level > “We live at emerges > > In the 4 phrases, above, the words “mind" and “live" appear twice, each, the word experience, once. The meanng of each
OK you asked for it. It includes the result of a deep dive into the incunabula history of european music —even much befoe that. Oh --Rozek and Zitec are the names of two Bohemian lineages that I am related to. I just tossed them in because I am so proud of them.
I am reading and interesting article from the International Journal of Philosophical Studies and came across this section. I like it because of Henry’s emphasis on life. I have thought for awhile that Descartes error was not the binary of a thinking thing vs an extended thing but of a living thing vs a non-living thing.
Oh my goodness. Am I one? Could be, I guess. After all, I live in and am a citizen of what is known as a liberal democracy. It is that because it was founded on principles of The Enlightenment which are said to be secularism, reason, social juistice, tolerance . The Constitution , its Preamble, and the Declaration of Independance codifiy them. The Revolution, the Civl War, the Civil Rights Movement, the Equal Rights Amendment (which I think has still not been ratified) represent our moral commitmenmt. And confrom our liberal values. So any American loyal and committed
John I am on the road. I would disagree with your take on the enlightenment, but I’m on the road and can’t give an adequate response. Maybe later.
Phil Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 13, 2024, at 10:00 AM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > ATTN: Phil > > > > Oh my goodness. Am I one? Could be, I guess. After all, I live in and am a citizen of what is known as a liberal democracy. It is that because it was founded on principles of The Enlightenment which are said to be secularism, reason,
It’s worth remembering that France’s "Declaration of the Rights of Man"was inspired by the US’s founding documents.
Dan
> On Feb 13, 2024, at 12:00 PM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > ATTN: Phil > > > > Oh my goodness. Am I one? Could be, I guess. After all, I live in and am a citizen of what is known as a liberal democracy. It is that because it was founded on principles of The Enlightenment which are said to be secularism, reason, social juistice, tolerance . The Constitution , its Preamble, and the Declaration of Independance
This is from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10763974/) study, "MAGA Republicans’ views of American democracy and society and support for political violence in the United States: Findings from a nationwide population-representative survey." An excerpt:
The study’s findings suggest that MAGA Republicans, as defined, are a distinct minority [of the Republican Party]—more likely than other Republicans to endorse racist and delusional beliefs, sometimes by very wide margins.
The real issue I suspect for you is in the assertions I’ve made before about post-secularism and its implications for the ideas inherent to the Enlightenment. Given that you value the Enlightenment, at any given moment, depending on the crowd and event, you might even find yourself standing up against left leaning violence (violence here to include intimidation of people and aggressive interruption of their free speech).
That you for the attachments. SImon Critchley is one of my heroes. I sat in on 3 of his lecture courses at the New School here in NYC.
It was pretty clear to Heidegger that modernity was in collapse.
Dan
> On Feb 15, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dear John, > Are you a crazy leftist? I doubt it. > > The real issue I suspect for you is in the assertions I’ve made before about post-secularism and its implications for the ideas inherent to the Enlightenment. Given that you value the Enlightenment, at
Show me some left violence in Britain or the USA that comes anywhere near the killing of people in a synagogue, the threat to hang Pelosi, the insurrection on Jan 6th, etc.
Modernism failed: it produced the United Nations, the Geneva Convention, the National Health Service, gay liberation. The 'post-secular' produced Putin's, Modi's and Iran's religious bigotry, and the bigotry of the fundamentalist Christian and Jewish churches Just saying it doesn't make it true. Show me a modernist who wants to kill people who disagree with them, to fight a war against civilians etc.
There is no turning away from the fact that modernism failed. Hitler and Stalin, ironically, were high water marks. Ideologies on steroids.
Dan
> On Feb 15, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Phil, > > Show me some left violence in Britain or the USA that comes anywhere near the killing of people in a synagogue, the threat to hang Pelosi, the insurrection on Jan 6th, etc. > > Modernism failed: it produced the United Nations, the Geneva Convention, the National Health Service, gay liberation. The 'post-secular' produced Putin's, Modi's and Iran's religious bigotry, and
*Modernism* is a philosophical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy>, religious <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_in_the_Catholic_Church>, and art movement <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_movement> that arose from broad transformations in Western society <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world> during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The movement reflected a desire for the creation of new forms of art, philosophy, and social organization which reflected the newly emerging industrial world <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_society>, including features such as urbanization <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization>, architecture, new technologies, and war. Artists attempted to depart from traditional forms of art, which they considered outdated or obsolete. The poet Ezra Pound <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound>'s 1934 injunction to "Make it New" was the touchstone of the movement's approach.
Both Nazism and communism were organized upon utopian dreams emergent of technology and “modernisms.” The “futurists” were artists to whom fascisms appeared a great deal. The Nazis presented themselves as the system of the future. It is in their anthems and propaganda. Communism as well had a commitment to the future.
Dear Peter and Dan, It’s not just a matter of modernism. It’s that elements of the Enlightenment, such as the reliance on observation and experience coupled with reason/logic eventuated in logical positivism. And that, coupled with the advantages in terms of possible power, resulted in a race to dominate technology. So, you cannot start with Hitler and Stalin, or even the 19th century. No one could have imagined the results of pulling away from the authority of the church, which seemed liked a reasonable thing to do. But then, who or what carries the authority if not God? There ensues
A very logical and positivist argument Phil. Congratulations.
I prefer talking about wonder. I am of course not a positivist. God as a first cause/authority is a fine logical illusion.
Peter
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 21:20, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Peter and Dan, > It’s not just a matter of modernism. It’s that elements of the > Enlightenment, such as the reliance on observation and experience coupled > with reason/logic eventuated in logical positivism. And that, coupled with > the advantages in terms of possible power, resulted in a race to dominate > technology. So, you
Not quite. It was a description and not a logical argument. You prefer talking about wonder? That’s great. Me too. Very post-secular of you. Wonder exceeds the natural explanation, the immanent frame. Wonder emerges from the sense that something transcends the predictable and the mundane.
Last evening after work Linda and I went over to a friend’s house. He has to have a prostate biopsy. He is still recovering from nearly dying from acute renal failure (in the one kidney he actually has). While he was in the ICU he came down with COVID. They put a stint in, but
I suggested the Trump phenomena is an offshoot of Wrestlemania. You said it is closer to The Apprentice.
Take a look at these videos. And notice the cheering crowd.
To me, Trump is closer here to how he behaves than the Trump of The Apprentice.
Dan
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BwaJ69P410U Trump DECKS WWE’s McMahon at Wrestlemania 🥊 youtube.com
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oYb46Nxar-Q Donald Trump Pushes Mr. McMahon #shorts #subscribe #wwe #donaldtrump #vincemcmahon youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVxVDDYwNvU Mr. McMahon and Donald Trump announce the Battle of the Billionaires youtube.com
I am referring to the impulsive loyalty to him, not any considered judgment.
In the early 1930’s, Emmanuel Levinas wrote an essay on what he referred to as “Hitlerism.” He warned that the rational values of the Western Enlightenment were deficient and would collapse as against ideologies that could embrace irrationality, passion, and emotional. The absence of the body from Enlightenment ideas of truth, justice, and the good doomed them. He referred to the drumbeats of National Socialism.
For me, this is still the game of comparison (who is more exciting, who passes more bills...). People are getting disenfranchised, killed, threatened with death, allowed to die rather than sacrifice the foetus, and it is those who like the kind of strength that Trump shows that are complicit in this, with Trump's dog-whistle support. No other issue comes close to this. Did Hitler or Merkel get the trains running more on time?! Irrelevant in the context.
Peter, explain your comment I highlighted in bold.
Our election invites the “game of comparison.”
I agree re the appeal of Trump’s blunt strength.
By the way, who got the trains running more in time? Hitler or Merkel? Just curious…
Regarding your second paragraph, I agree, although I don’t think of it as harshly as you. Just as Christianity in Germany survived the German Lutheran Church’s support for Hitler, so it shall in the US. You are referring to the evangelicals and the Southern Baptists in the US. The other establishment faiths are not jumping onboard.
An analogy might help. If a discussion about the future of Harvey Weinstein in Hollywood got diverted into a discussion of whether he was a better director than Sam Mendes, or whether he helped the career of this or that actor, that would be similarly irrelevant as a meaningful issue in that discussion. Or train punctuality under Hitler.
My point re comparisons is simply that the elections require a comparisons and choices.
On another level, comparison of Trump to Biden is mistakenly made since it is actually a category error. I can’t usefully compare a dog with a carrot. Actually, that is one of the nearly (nearly!) existential tragedies of the Trump vs Biden race. Even to compare at this level is to destroy the very process itself. To pretend Trump can be president so twists the definition of qualifications that the process is meaningless.
In reference to what you said below, “the twisting of ‘our’ values,” whose values? Values are entwined in politics. Also in spirituality. Also in morality. But there is no one size fits all supporter of Trump. There is no MAGA monolith; that is a creation of the left and a straw man talking point. There are people who share some values and differ on others who may also support Trump. Personally, I lament church leaders as it were making a Dorian Gray type bargain in the hope of getting some political goal, because the church will never get what it
Sure. MAGA people don’t wear red hats or walk in lock-step with their creator. That’s a media creation of the left. Congress is not in a deadlock on immigration and foreign aid because MAGA’s leader issued a command. My mistake. I guess I ought to stop reading stuff printed by my echo chamber. LOL.
Notice Phil's last bit Dan. By helicoptering over a 'clusterfuck' he is doing that equating thing again. One guy who is a few years older and forgets things sometimes; another who is systematically destroying all the checks and balances that support a democracy, and is being allowed to by his paymasters and followers. See, they're all the same as each other.
That is exactly what I meant. You don’t understand what the church is as an organism. You described various forms of organization, even as more political than spiritual. They carry the term “church” but it’s not what I would call church.
Just like you don’t understand that people come to Trump, and signal their support by wearing a red hat, for various reasons. They don’t all have the exact same values, not all salivating at his whistles. Not all the same. Not any more than people on the left are all the same. Like not all gay people are the
Whether they have same values or not is irrelevant if they vote him into power…
The headlines from this today's speech demonstrate pretty his authoritarian/insular intentions pretty clearly… encouraging Putin to bomb Nato allies, mass deportation of migrants, oppression of trans people, funding cuts for any schools teaching about racism.
If it was scary last time, this time around the consequences of a Trump presidency are likely to be catastrophic.
Leanne I see what you are saying. First I am not for Trump. But my hope is that him being so full of bluster and tactical hyperbole (also what people call his lies) that if elected he would govern with less actual destruction. NATO is stronger now partly because he threatened it before ( and partly because NATO countries sense the need to get ready to fight Russia). I also trust that more mentally healthy people will utilize the checks in our constitution to block his more extreme efforts. People worry that there are no checks on him now because
I recently read a rather shocking essay by Christopher Hitchens on Hitler, and how people thought they could either control him (it served their purposes to support him) or didn’t believe he was serious about what he was actually saying. It is a tragic account of multiple points where people could have made different choices and didn’t. In a recent podcast from Sam Harris, his guest discusses the way he will dismantle the various checks and balances. Some of the arguments can be found in the Atlantic, “Trump’s Second Term would look like this…’ Jonathan Rauch is the
Leanne I live in a very red state. I am a vocal Haley supporter. I am actually FOR her as opposed to just against Trump. I can talk that up. I can caucus for her. But I am one person. I am soon to leave Facebook, but while there I will be a voice for her and against Trump. I won’t look and sound like I’m not supporting him to some people, because also will likely want him to make the country energy independent again, and I think there need a to be a revision of the green new deal
Dan, when you said "echo chamber" it reminded me of a portion of Al Gore's speech at the Davos economic summit:
"These algorithms that suck people down proverbial rabbit holes, they're more like the pitcher plants with slippery sides and at the bottom of the rabbit hole, that's where the echo chamber is. And people who dwell long enough in the echo chamber become vulnerable to a new kind of AI. Not artificial intelligence, but artificial insanity."
I am not so sure about reason unfortunately. Look at our process here. Reason becomes an equalising process where the most crazy things are said as 'reasonable' arguments - Phil is great at that. At some point, people must say 'No! No argument, no reasoning like adults, just no! You threaten me and the nation, and I don't need any reasonable argument to replace fighting you.'
Great. Peter, the new John Wayne. See, Leanne, what I meant about civil war? See the us against them and the privileging of the us? And the demonizing of them? In fact, it’s a kind of religious self-righteousness that justifies throwing discourse to the wind and fighting. Marvelous.
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Thank you Charlie. > > I am not so sure about reason unfortunately. Look at our process here. Reason becomes an equalising process where the most crazy things are said as 'reasonable' arguments - Phil is great at that.
It was LBJ who approached the political process with the hope that “we can reason together.” He is known for having passed the most far-reaching legislation of any president. He forged coalitions for civil rights, for example.
I lack LBJ’s faith that “we can reason together.” This is what I’ve been sayin by the crisis and collapse of our Enlightenment values.
Spectacular! And there’s another voice for civil war. Really? Wait. Why am I surprised? This is exactly the voice of resistance that rose up when Trump was elected the first time, partly because of the surprising wound that Hillary lost. And you guys really wonder why Trump has a vendetta? Civil war is not a solution. It’s the mutual destruction that results from a failure to find a solution.
“We” won the election and all the court cases verify this. “They” won’t accept it. For example.
Does anyone have a doubt about what will happen in the event he loses the next election? He is already laying the foundation for another attack on democracy. Just listen to him. The new chair of the Republican Party is an infamous election denier.
And you Phil are standing above the fray, tut-tutting. And talking about self-righteousness!
Is there nothing you will fight for or against?
Trump and his supporters in the Republican Party ARE the privileged. Certainly their access to the media is privileged.
Peter
On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 17:32, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Great. Peter, the new John Wayne. See, Leanne, what I meant about civil > war? See the us against them and the privileging of the us? And the > demonizing of them? In fact, it’s a kind of religious self-righteousness > that justifies throwing discourse to
And if it comes to civil war, which one of you will be out in the streets fighting? My bet is not one.
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:32 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Peter and Charlie: > > It was LBJ who approached the political process with the hope that “we can reason together.” He is known for having passed the most far-reaching legislation of any president. He forged coalitions for civil rights, for example. > > I lack LBJ’s faith that “we can reason together.” This is what I’ve been sayin by the crisis and collapse
On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 17:41, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> And if it comes to civil war, which one of you will be out in the streets > fighting? My bet is not one. > > On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:32 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Peter and Charlie: > > It was LBJ who approached the political process with the hope that “we can > reason together.” He is known for having passed the most far-reaching > legislation of any president. He forged coalitions for civil rights, for > example. >
The resistance that rose up when Hillary lost dissipated rather quickly. Sure, it existed, After all, she won by millions of popular votes.
Do YOU wonder why Trump has a vendetta?
Oh Phil, I am a New Yorker. I’ve known about Trump for decades. He was famous for vendettas, wild exaggerations, frivolous lawsuits, outright lies, nastiness, racism, and womanizing. He represented what many of thought was the worst of the city. His teacher was the lawyer, Roy Cohen, who was Joe McCarthy’s attorney Trump was infamous in trying to crush anyone he thought slighted him.
Yes. Biden won the election. No, some people don’t accept it. AND… many in the Republican Party do. You are lumping everything into one pile… them. Where is all the concern about othering and all the crap gestalt people were throwing around about totalizing and traumatizing other people? The threat of Trump is making you crazy. Trump may win the election and drag our country through a mile of total shit, but we are NOT going to lose the republic (I would say democracy, but of course that is not what we have). On the day he wanted the vice
Are you nuts? The Republicans are privileged? The left has been way more privileged by various sectors of our society, being entrenched in institutions of higher education, the media and arts, and from time to time totally in charge of the government. The large number of people whose jobs are in the public sector lean left. And because I stand back and try to speak for a bit of balance in your reactionary catastrophizing, I’m self-righteous?
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:46 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Oh Phil, I am a New Yorker. I’ve known about Trump for decades. He was famous for vendettas, wild exaggerations, frivolous lawsuits, outright lies, nastiness, racism, and womanizing. He represented what many of thought was the worst of the city. His teacher was the lawyer, Roy Cohen, who was Joe McCarthy’s attorney Trump was infamous in trying to crush anyone he thought slighted him. > > If you think his vendetta against Hillary or others is new for him, think again.
If you come with a gang of left crazy people to Twin Falls (first, I would advise not doing that), and you threaten my home or the lives of my friends, yes. Unfortunately, I will shoot your ass. SO. Don’t do it. Pull back from the inflammatory rhetoric about what a solution civil war is. There are no winners.
OK. I’m familiar with that kind of response. Do I think this is NAZI Germany happening all over again? Absolutely NOT. You don’t go back. You can only move forward. Does the country see Trump the way you do? No. You have to admit that given the polls. And not all of them are “MAGA” people. They just are not. I don’t like Trump. I don’t like a kind of mindless enthusiasm for him. But then I don’t like a kind of mindless apologizing for Biden either. The country is wading through shit already. I’m not looking forward to the
OK let's go with it. Is there freedom of expression and political or religious/anti-religious views in Twin Falls? If I moved there and told people my views would I be threatening their lives or would they be threatening me? If I killed one of your friends to stop him/her killing me, would you then shoot my ass? I am being inflammatory?
Ah yes. Wrestlemania. I remember it well. It wasn’t called that at the time. That time was — oh, in the 1940s. TV was black and white and the main attracrtion on these crude sets was their rabbitt ear antenae and a magnifing lense that fit in front of the set to enlarge the picture. The main attraction on this still novel home entertainment was Your Show of Shows straring Sic Ceasar and Imogen Coca. AND hold your breath — Wrestling from some arena in Santa Monica. It was obviously faked and everyone knew it but it was the greatest
Notice that I said if you come here with a band of crazy leftists (ie, as in a civil war) threatening people and doing harm? Peter, if you came here to live you COULD live. People do that here right now. Twin Falls continues to grow, and a lot of the people coming here are the ones leaving failed left run cities. There is an Islamic prayer center. We have a refugee center pouring people into the community from Africa, Pakistan, and now Ukraine. There is a college. There is freedom of expression. It’s like most other places, with the
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 11:46 AM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Ah yes. Wrestlemania. I remember it well. It wasn’t called that at the time. That time was — oh, in the 1940s. TV was black and white and the main attracrtion on these crude sets was their rabbitt ear antenae and a magnifing lense that fit in front of the set to enlarge the picture. The main attraction on this still novel home entertainment was Your Show of Shows straring Sic Ceasar and Imogen Coca. AND hold your breath — Wrestling
36.8% of the German population voted for Hitler in the 1932 presidential election. In the next election, the Nazi party received 43.9% of the note. Then there was the plebiscite ( yes or no). 95.7% of the electorate voted “yes” to his assuming power.
Well of course Clint Eastwood is a great actor, and we all love his films. But [getting angrier] if he came and urinated in our letterbox, I would give him a slap and say 'Oy Clint, you are a great actor, but I will not tolerate you urinating in my letterbox'.
Wait. What do you know about the people in Twin Falls? I have been maligning them? I don’t think so. I’m one of them.
This is getting to be ridiculous. Do what you want with your band of friends. Go save the world with them (quite apart from starting a civil war). By all means, Peter. You are a saint.
GARY M. YONTEF, Ph.D., ABPP 9034 Larke Ellen Circle Los Angeles, CA 9003 310.838.0379
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 12:31 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Wait. What do you know about the people in Twin Falls? I have been maligning them? I don’t think so. I’m one of them. > > This is getting to be ridiculous. Do what you want with your band of friends. Go save the world with them (quite apart from starting a civil war). By all means, Peter.
(For some reason, this post was bounced because it was flagged as a duplicate post. So here it is. Again:
Dear Ones:
This discussion is as predictable as the analyses on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and so one. You push a Republican button and you get juke box plays unsurprising songs. You push a Democratic and their supporters button and the a different yet same song plays. Push my button and I’ll sing my sing my song, although my throat is sore.
The country is split. There are extremists on both sides of the split. I was encouraged, nevertheless, by the deliberations of the Supreme Court. Their deliberations, the questions they asked both sides in the Colorado case, showed concern for the intent of the constitution and the implications of allowing a state to dictate elements of a national election. But what was most encouraging is that it appears we are headed to a unanimous decision. This has nothing to do with them being bought and paid for by Trump. Trump himself is a side show.
There are always extremists on both sides. What is new here? But there are sides, and there are sides. :)
What is new that one side is showing all signs of being delusional worshipping a hero who’s stepped right out of the drama of Wrestlemania and the other side, at its extreme, is still caught up in some elitist worldview.
From my side of the Atlantic, it looks like a trap, the trap of equalising what isn't equal.
If someone says a political view I disagree with and I try to stop them speaking, they have a valid free speech argument that they may speak. If they shout 'Fire' in a theatre (a less destructive equivalent of what Trump did on January 6th) and I stop them, there is no comparison, no free speech argument, nor is it an argument to say that I have to prove there was no fire anywhere in the theatre. The person
Peter, I’m not following what the “it” is to which you are referring.
I think the Supreme Court has already ruled in a sense on the immunity issue right? Nobody is immune to prosecution for acts committed as president. He cannot send the national guard to execute a political rival. This is one of the reasons that I have always thought the “threat to democracy” assertion was hyperbole—we have checks and balances, and people have already demonstrated that they will not go all the way along with him to the extremes (some will; there is a faction I agree, but
Well, I agree Biden has been a competent president. If there as been anyone since JFK who knew how to do politics in America it was Joe Biden. Trump still doen’t understand the concept. HOWEVER, Joe Biden is in fact the President of the USA and I would like him to show at least a little bit —a tiny bit —of imperiailstic stance. Standing up he exudes zero karisma. He should be using a wheel chair like Greg Abbot. Or always sit behind a desk like FDR did. Most of the public never even knew that he couldnt walk. When
Do you think if Susan Rice were president that they’d have to fit her with a pair of testicles? Maybe not.
Nice to see that you think POTUS is all about appearances. In such a media rich environment it’s probably what matters in the fight for survival. Getting the most women. Impacting the gene pool. All that evolutionary stuff.
It’s not just a speech impediment, Dan. The Special counsel’s report is damning. As some comgresswoman has asserted, he either needs to be charged with a crime (like Trump) or be replaced as president on the grounds that he is no longer competent to serve. (NOT that I really look forward to Harris becoming president.)
I am so glad you are having a second cup of coffee. There is nothing like clear thinking to think clearly.
d.
On Feb 26, 2022, 1:54 PM -0500, Sheila M Boland <[log in to unmask]>, wrote: > Peter, > > I reread just now the post from the other day accusing Phil of using a word stick to beat up on Biden. > > So yesterday I thought of a parallel process reading through the news regarding USA and Ukraine. I read where the president of Ukraine stated he didn’t need Biden’s offer to escape his country but that he needed reinforcements or extra
Reports say Germany agrees to toss Russia out of SWIFT. And to send 1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles. Thank you Germany. Now maybe Biden will join the Europeans and do likewise.
God bless the Ukrainians. Sustain them. Sew confusion among the invaders. May they lose heart and wander back to Russia.
Biden already leads the way with sending weapons and backing the SWIFT sanctions before Germany. Perhaps you missed that news?
Agree with: God bless the Ukrainians. Sustain them. Sew confusion among the invaders. May they lose heart and wander back to Russia.
Jay
From: An ICORS List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Philip Brownell Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 3:54 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Biden
Weeks before the violence even erupted, there were reports from the (left and right) press in USA stated that the USA has been sending arms and ammunition to Ukraine and placed the SWIFT sanctions on the table for possible action. Germany initially offered helmets for the Ukrainian troops and was (until Friday, according to the Washington Times - a right of center newspaper) a holdout against SWIFT sanctions. According to Fox News report today 26 February (a reliable right of center news source) “European leaders have moved closer to cutting Russia off from the SWIFT banking system as Germany
My view is that there is not a great track record of the results of sending ground troops in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. I said this to my Ukrainian colleague who was saying about this: 'Be careful what you ask for, you may get it - do you want to be another Afghanistan or Iraq?'.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 at 18:54, Sheila M Boland <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Peter, > > I reread just now the post from the other day accusing Phil of using a > word stick to beat up on Biden. > > So yesterday I thought of a parallel process reading through the news > regarding USA and Ukraine. I read where the president of Ukraine stated he > didn’t need Biden’s offer to escape his country but that he needed > reinforcements or extra bullets- roughly paraphrased. So
Phil, you should get your news from sources other than Fox.
On Feb 26, 2022, 3:53 PM -0500, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>, wrote: > Reports say Germany agrees to toss Russia out of SWIFT. And to send 1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles. Thank you Germany. Now maybe Biden will join the Europeans and do likewise. > > God bless the Ukrainians. Sustain them. Sew confusion among the invaders. May they lose heart and wander back to Russia. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 26, 2022, at 1:47 PM,
"Now maybe Biden will join the Europeans and do likewise." (send weapons)
From Slate yesterday:
In the months leading up to Russia’s invasion, the U.S. alone sent $650 million worth of anti-armor and anti-aircraft missiles, as well as radar, communications gear, and other military supplies.
The United States drew from U.S. weapons stocks to supply Ukraine in the fall of 2021 and then again in December. Over the past year the United States has committed more than $1 billion in security assistance to Ukraine, Blinken said.
Ora I meant join the decision to throw Russia out of SWIFT. As for my news sources, I have based my statements on the (agreed limited) news briefings from Biden himself. Although he could have lead the way in kicking Russia out of SWIFT, he admitted he could not act because the Eorpeans didn’t want to do it. And as it turned out it seems most of them did want to do it and Germany was dragging their heels. BUT. I am not interested in using this situation to Bash Biden. Nobody needs to scrounge around for reasons to criticize
There was a satirical theatre sketch about Germans after the War saying 'We just thought the Nazis were a patriotic club. As soon as we found out that it was something worse than that we left.' 'When was that?' '1946'.
Too late to repent of Trump, after all you wrote saying that he was doing the right thing, although he 'didn't look presidential'.
Im not repenting. AND I’m not getting sucked into what I said I wasn’t interested in. Think what you want.
> On Feb 26, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Phil, > > There was a satirical theatre sketch about Germans after the War saying 'We just thought the Nazis were a patriotic club. As soon as we found out that it was something worse than that we left.' 'When was that?' '1946'. > > Too late to repent of Trump, after all you wrote saying that he was doing the right thing, although he 'didn't
Phil, let me explain why I am furiously angry with you.
I have had memory loss since I was 30 (a result of chemotherapy, which you might also experience) and it has got worse as I got older. I forget names and dates.
Would you call me incompetent to do my work? Are you not worth paying attention to because you are also old and sick? Should Richard Kitzler, Erv Polster, Philip Lichtenberg, Bob Resnick etc. have stepped down as leaders? This is even more true of a President, especially when surrounded by aides who can act as an external
I don’t understand how Biden’s age is impairing anything. It’s a talking point for Republicans. The Biden economy is stable, growing and opportunities are growing and available. For all? Of course not. This is America. Remember, the Republicans voted out equal opportunity. Not that we ever achieved anything even close.
If you watched any of the Republican pundits responses to this latest jobs report you can see that hostility and disdain block any awareness of economic progress or support for success in turning around the plunge we experienced from two plagues- Covid and Trump.
This discussion is as predictable as the analyses on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and so one. You push a Republican button and you get juke box plays unsurprising songs. You push a Democratic and their supporters button and the a different yet same song plays. Push my button and I’ll sing my sing my song, although my throat is sore.
Bill Maher: "When historians look back in a hundred years, if we're still here, I don't think they're going to divide the country like we do into these two camps. They're going to say: As a people, they were obnoxious. It happens in different forms on both sides. As a people, they didn't believe in science. On the right, they think global warming is a hoax or whatever nonsense they believe about that. And on the left, they think men can have babies. That's what they'll say. They'll say, ‘As a people, they just lost their s--t.’”
On the one hand there are people trying to turn America into a fascist theocracy, invading the seats of power and threatening to kill those they disagree with, threatening democracy, achieving the legal a system, or denying climate emergencies while parts of America burns. On the other hand there are some people whose proprioceptive sense of themselves is of a different gender to their outer physical appearance. I know, let's find a form of weasel words that makes them as bad as each other.
You are a distinterested social experimenter who supported the guy who as we predicted pulled apart the social fabric of your country IN THE NAME OF CONSERVATISM.
Peter
On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, 22:56 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I’m not desperate Peter. Desperation not in the equation. I’m just quoting > Bill Maher as a kind of social experiment/ Rorschach test. You know what > might a person say to this? And there you are. > > Phil > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2024, at 3:48 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
No, he was the enabler, but he would have been nobody without people who said 'Well he isn't presidential, but he fulfills our/God's purpose.' Now who would have said that?!
By the way, field theory doesn't say that an individual isn't very powerful at times.
Peter
On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 00:26, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
His emergence is of a field in which he has been a provocateur.
We know in emergence theory that emergent events exert downward non-linear “causation" on that from which they are emergent. This is a sub- and supervenient relationship.
Trump is both the swamp gas emergent of the swamp and the swamp itself. :)
I think there are arguments to be had about all those points, but the main thing is the totally dumb attempt to provide a spurious parity between actions that weaken the democratic and legal bonds that hold a nation together or that sustain our capacity to live comfortably on our planet, and the gender thing which only really affects those involved.
The swamp seems to be most dangerously peopled by those who talk about the swamp!
Peter
On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 18:29, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dan > One difference. That which emerges is not identical to that from which it > emerges. The swamp gas is not the swamp. They are indeed in a sub- and > supervenient relationship, and so Trump emerged from and is of a complex > adapting field, and he now exerts a downward influence over it. But the > field is still self adapting. There is a Haley. There are more people
Poor old Trump, sent mad by the shady swamp creatures.
You are dangerously delusional.
Peter
On Sat, 3 Feb 2024, 19:00 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> That you say that Peter shows that you are surely part of it. Actually no > one stands outside of it > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 11:59 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > As far as Maher’s observation goes, I think it is directed at the swamp. > Let’s take it away from science. Do I think that Taylor Swift is a sinister > agent
So you bought the line the “swamp.” I am shocked, not surprised.
Trump has directly said he will remove from the civil service everyone he thinks has or will be disloyal to him. He has said he’d pardon the insurrectionists and other criminals found guilty by courts of law. He said he will direct the justice department to hunt down democrats. (By the way, he has no authority to do that. Just ask Wm Barr. Or read the constitution.) He said he’d consider ordering the military to invade Mexico — and into American cities. I don’t know which would
But why Phil's flatulence now? Why does he buy the definition from those who would force Americans to be 'good Christians' in their mould?
And notice Phil's line 'AND, I did not expect the resistance of the established government system that helped turn the guy into the very worst version of himself'. If you recall, the resistance was to stop Trump doing really crazy stuff, but now those who did that are to blame for how Trump is now. Myths in the making.
You make a good point about fascism. Trump’s rallies use Village People songs. Loathsome fascists used better music. Wagner? LOL
Dan
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 4:53 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Hi Dan, > > But why Phil's flatulence now? Why does he buy the definition from those who would force Americans to be 'good Christians' in their mould? > > And notice Phil's line 'AND, I did not expect the resistance of the established government system that helped turn the guy into the very worst version of himself'. If you recall, the resistance was to
Don't use my writings against me: I know them better than you!
'The swamp' is not a field description but a dehumanising dog-whistle. And those who come running to it are the dogs who have been trained to run to it. That is how 6th Jan. worked.
And rather than lose everything you will follow the dog whistle, the book-banning, the establishment of a particular religion, the trashing of the constitution in the name of conservatism. Double-think. The playing of word games is over. People have died.
On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 22:25, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Peter. > > You make a good point about fascism. Trump’s rallies use Village People > songs. Loathsome fascists used better music. Wagner? LOL > > Dan > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 4:53 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Hi Dan, > > But why Phil's flatulence now? Why does he buy the definition from those > who would force Americans to be 'good Christians' in their mould? > > And notice Phil's line 'AND, I did not
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Have you tried dancing to Wagner? > > P > > On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 22:25, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> Peter. >> >> You make a good point about fascism. Trump’s rallies use Village People songs. Loathsome fascists used better music. Wagner? LOL >> >> Dan >> >>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 4:53 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>> But why Phil's flatulence now? Why does he buy the definition from those who would
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_q6Imd8cA&ab_channel=SelinSch%C3%B6nbeck Richard WAGNER METAL-Version - Ein Schwert verhieß mir der Vater (Wälse!) youtube.com
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 7:08 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Ah. I will have to listen. One of those things I never got around to. A deficiency I’m sure. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 3, 2024, at 5:03 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> I never danced t Wagner >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 6:31 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> No to what? >>>
Just let me know if you need the context for that event in the Ring of the Nibelungen. I call it an “event” and not an aria because it is a pivot point in the drama and because it is way beyond the simple beauty of the performance.
That band in the video also did a heavy metal rendition of one of the movements of Brahms’s Deutsche Requiem.
The French philosopher Alain Badiou called Wagner the first rockstar and compared him to David Bowie. Badiou said the performances of Wagner at his Festspielhaus (his own opera house) were like rock concerts. Fanatics came from around the world to attend. Women were known to faint when they heard the first chord of Tristan und Isolde.
Wait a second. I am beginning to get a sense of someone…Nah! Can’t be.
Dan
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 11:07 PM, Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> > Can you imagine anyone with these below traits and qualities? > >> Amoral, lawless, career criminal, pathological narcissism, sociopath, horribly litigious, scores of unpaid bills, loses extreme amounts of other peoples’ money, devoid of empathy, temperamentally unfit, unqualified, sexually assaultive, deep belief it is OK to denigrate others, easily turns on friends, very effective con, fraudulent, reckless, extreme liar, behaves like a mob
Excellant Work, Mister Neggerman,Excellant. Now if I can onlhy find a way to put it all on a bumper sticker.
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 9:07 PM, Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> > Can you imagine anyone with these below traits and qualities? > >> Amoral, lawless, career criminal, pathological narcissism, sociopath, horribly litigious, scores of unpaid bills, loses extreme amounts of other peoples’ money, devoid of empathy, temperamentally unfit, unqualified, sexually assaultive, deep belief it is OK to denigrate others, easily turns on friends, very effective con, fraudulent, reckless, extreme liar, behaves like a mob boss,
If you want the Trump people to read it, it would have to be short anyway.
Peter
On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 16:02, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Excellant Work, Mister Neggerman,Excellant. Now if I can onlhy find a way > to put it all on a bumper sticker. > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 9:07 PM, Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > Can you imagine anyone with these below traits and qualities? > > *Amoral, lawless, career criminal, pathological narcissism, sociopath, > horribly litigious, scores of unpaid bills, loses extreme amounts of other >
> On Feb 4, 2024, at 10:56 AM, Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Here John: > > “LOCK UP THE ORANGE MENACE!!! “ > oooooooo. do you remember The Prisoner speaking of an orange menace ?
I am happy to send you this announcement. This looks like it will be an exciting presentation.
I hope you are all well.
Dan
> > > > > WINTER SPECIAL EVENT: > > Encountering Artificial Intelligence – Exploring a Phenomenology of Embodied Experience > > Presenters: Maciej Lukaszewicz and Claire Spiller > > When: Sunday, January 14, 2024 @ 1:00 p.m.–3:30 p.m. New York time > Where: Zoom! > > Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83011578259 <https://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001_KOIdJCIrVH5tow8-qjgBXql1St788_haeo5qUXNTVs9EYLhuzWOhNE8DUjGy3T7SpIsX4nrOuK_lSP1EQdZK_5O2lGGmmIq8w1DS1zqA9I2YOE8pdFZNnDrIgx07zElXg6edH5L1FA2oDSuR5WyJ4nuP5MGyxa_OjhiXm1w46Q=&c=0grhVZZyWfMO6j_S4wkYR-oMOeLd_SpF9TMR9C_FNFsoRZ_qWbeHRA==&ch=il5N1eYHwdYJv9jkrIv_9Ay8BpwXzar6UtHAf6w56-J8CRyYbfdQoA==> > > Please RSVP: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > Description: > > On October 30, 2023, the White House announced an executive order on global AI safety.
Dan, this looks very interesting, thank you for the information and invitation ! Happy New Year everyone 🎆
Kamila Bialy Ph.D. Institute of Sociology, University of Lodz, Poland Gestalt therapist
On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 04:33, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I am happy to send you this announcement. This looks like it will be an > exciting presentation. > > I hope you are all well. > > Dan > > > > Presenters: Maciej Lukaszewicz and Claire Spiller > WINTER SPECIAL EVENT: > > Encountering Artificial Intelligence – Exploring a Phenomenology of > Embodied Experience > >
Dan. Best to you as well. How many times is this for you being president at NYIGT?
> On Dec 14, 2023, at 9:17 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > <2131-medium.jpeg> > > We at the NYIGT wish all our friends and colleagues best wishes for the holidays and for a happy new year. > > The weight our common situation is heavy. We wish you all safety, peace, and good health. > > Dan Bloom, president > www.newyorkgestalt.org > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
This is my third term. I was last president about 20 years ago. What????
My best to you and Linda.
D.
> On Dec 14, 2023, at 11:20 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dan. > Best to you as well. How many times is this for you being president at NYIGT? > > >> On Dec 14, 2023, at 9:17 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> <2131-medium.jpeg> >> >> We at the NYIGT wish all our friends and colleagues best wishes for the holidays and for a happy new year. >> >> The weight our common situation is heavy.
I just posted this to the NYIGT FaceBook page. It was my honor to write this for my friend.
Carl Hodges by Dan Bloom, President
Carl Hodges was our first president chosen by us members -- and the second president of the International Association for the Advancement Gestalt Therapy. He died this fall after a long illness. He was 80. Carl is survived by his wife, Marie, daughter Carrie, and a brother -- and by so many of us across the world whom he touched with his sharp analytical intelligence, careful psychotherapeutic skills, which were informed by his gentle heart
There are’nt many people left who were trained when Fritz and Laura were still alive. I’ll be 91 at the end of this month. I often wonder at the Impact that my training had on my life , especially how it has grown through the years. It was certainly due in part to the unique personalities of my trainers at the New England institute (Lee, Allen, and Kathy) plus adjuncts like Erv, Miriam, Bob, and Neila. It may have been due to the total effect of the encounters with the many fellow trainees. It might have been because of the
I am, God willing, going to be 76 near the end of December. My brother died late this summer, and he was 71. I am watching a generation passing in the arts, in science, in psychotherapy, and in my family. And here. I wish you time well beyond 91, but we will all die. I planted twenty new trees last week, and put mulch around them. And paid for it with my body. All that getting down low to the ground, digging in the dirt, pulling weeds, mixing planting mix with
Hi Phil —Thank you for your reply.Your first paragraph nails the experience of a little bit of labor demanding a hugh price. For me it takes the following day to recover.My main exercise is a short jaunt on my recumbent tricycle. And now that the pool is closed , that’s what I do for my lower bodyl . But my arms and shoulders need special attention so I rigged up a set of rubber tubes for my upper body. And I try (sic) to alternate between the trike and tubes. The major problem is not just my age. I have
Hi John, Yes. Pace. I find that while there are many possible things to do, and some are exciting to think about, there are not many projects I’m willing to do. Time is waning. I have planted the trees that will grow up around a small pasture so that there will be a meadow. We will install the last sprinkler system in the spring so that I don’t have to drag a lot of hose to keep them watered in the hot summer. I have benches in a meditation post that overlooks the meadow. I have two writing projects I
I'm still actively working and travelling to teach at 71, and still doing Aikido.
That sense that the world can be changed by our activity spoke to me, both from GT and from the writings of Paul Goodman that I read when I was a student radical in the 1970s.
Accordingly, I — a usual conservative Republican — am drawn to and appreciative of President Biden’s statements of support for Israel. I am also hopeful that a female presidential candidate of color (Nikki Haley) can continue to rise and ultimately replace Trump. All that aside, Rabbi Angela Buchdahl nails it.
"Hi, I am a graduate student at Teachers College, Columbia University. I am very interested in research in Gestalt Therapy and wonder if you guys know there is any research project in NYC I can look into? I wonder if I can find some projects that I can volunteer.”
Hi Dan Not in NYC. I’m still in Kyiv, and I met yesterday with colleagues here who have started a dedicated gestalt research organization. They asked if I would consult with them. I will, but that illustrates how far a person from the states would have to go to do research on gestalt therapy.
If the enquirer is willing to consider reaching out to people in the US and internationally online, some people in IAAGT are just making some interesting initiatives in research.
The person to contact would be Christine Stevens.
Her e-mail address can be found on the Board page of the IAAGT website:
We hear about Bucha. 511 (and still counting) people murdered. Many left in the streets. Many tortured in basements for days. But we don’t hear much about Borodianka anymore. Dignitaries are not brought there. It’s a small rural town where a bomb took out the center of an apartment building, and we saw the place on the news when it happened. What we didn’t see was what happened then. The people buried the dead in a mass grave behind the ruins of the apartment building and piled debris on top of it.
I find it wonderful to work with people who are culturally supported not to collapse into shame but to face what is painful.
Best wishes,
Peter
On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 07:48 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> We hear about Bucha. 511 (and still counting) people murdered. Many left > in the streets. Many tortured in basements for days. But we don’t hear much > about Borodianka anymore. Dignitaries are not brought there. It’s a small > rural town where a bomb took out the center of an apartment building, and > we saw the place on the news when
That is true Phil. And more: if we collapse we can't process anything. The cultures that support not collapsing make therapy much easier, not just war.
Say hi to the KGU people from me.
Peter
On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 12:40 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> One gestalt trainer at KGU put it this way: now is not the time to > collapse and process all the crud. Now is still the crisis. Now is to > survive. > > Phil > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> >
Yes George was my regular translator in Kyiv. ALWAYS overworked! Got very severe Covid at the start of the pandemic. Had a lovely Georgian local restaurant near where he lived (that area I think got blown up).
Peter
On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 14:55 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Peter > I have already said hello for you. And for Gianni. I have referred to you > as a friend with whom I differ on subjects but a friend I admire and for > whom I have respect. I have tried to be here on my own terms, so
Margherita Spagnuolo - Istituto di Gestalt HCC Italy
Mon, 25 Sep 2023 21:39:40 +0200
Thank you Phil for your sharing, and for giving my greetings to Ukrainians colleagues. I’ve spent lastly many hours with Inna, the director of Kyiv gestalt university. A wonderful and courageous woman. As Peter says, Ukrainian people are able to face pain and be proud of who they are. Thank you again. Good luck while continuing your journey.
Thank you Phil for somehow bringing us there, with you. George often translated me, he has always been very busy :-))
Best wishes for your journey! A warm hug, Gianni
Il giorno sab 23 set 2023 alle ore 15:55 Philip Brownell < [log in to unmask]> ha scritto:
> Dear Peter > I have already said hello for you. And for Gianni. I have referred to you > as a friend with whom I differ on subjects but a friend I admire and for > whom I have respect. I have tried to be here on my own terms, so as not to
Great to hear colleagues dialogue on experiences in other countries.
I will be offering a Supervision workshop in Galway, Ireland, in two weeks time, on developing an indigenous and research based approach to therapy and live supervision that draws deeply on our cultural strengths in closeness to nature, traditional music, folk song, poetry, spirituality, dark and light humour, and coming through adverse experiences with courage and craic/playfulness.
Completing a three-day trip we are finally in Kyiv. I will have three lectures and a lecture/workshop to do. I will say “Hi” for you, Peter. Kind of tired. The last leg of the trip was an eighteen hour train ride in a compartment with a lovely Ukrainian grandmother who was on her way back from visiting her daughter in Portugal; she spoke no English. (I have a wonderfull video of Lydia and Linda trying to make a bed in the train compartment.).
Great Phil! Please, say hi! also on behalf me. Best wishes
Il mer 20 set 2023, 16:45 Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> ha scritto:
> Completing a three-day trip we are finally in Kyiv. I will have three > lectures and a lecture/workshop to do. I will say “Hi” for you, Peter. Kind > of tired. The last leg of the trip was an eighteen hour train ride in a > compartment with a lovely Ukrainian grandmother who was on her way back > from visiting her daughter in Portugal; she spoke no English. (I have a > wonderfull video of Lydia
On Wed, 20 Sept 2023 at 15:45, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Completing a three-day trip we are finally in Kyiv. I will have three > lectures and a lecture/workshop to do. I will say “Hi” for you, Peter. Kind > of tired. The last leg of the trip was an eighteen hour train ride in a > compartment with a lovely Ukrainian grandmother who was on her way back > from visiting her daughter in Portugal; she spoke no English. (I have a > wonderfull video of Lydia and Linda
I hope things go well for you and Linda. It sounds like you are doing terrific things.
Dan
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 4:45 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Completing a three-day trip we are finally in Kyiv. I will have three lectures and a lecture/workshop to do. I will say “Hi” for you, Peter. Kind of tired. The last leg of the trip was an eighteen hour train ride in a compartment with a lovely Ukrainian grandmother who was on her way back from visiting her daughter in Portugal; she spoke no English. (I have
Dan. So far the terrific things we have accomplished is washing the journey off in the shower and then ordering food at an outdoor restaurant.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:48 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Phil: > > I hope things go well for you and Linda. > It sounds like you are doing terrific things. > > Dan > >> On Sep 20, 2023, at 4:45 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Completing a three-day trip we are finally in Kyiv. I will have three lectures and a lecture/workshop
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 7:53 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dan. So far the terrific things we have accomplished is washing the journey off in the shower and then ordering food at an outdoor restaurant. > > Phil > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:48 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >> Phil: >> >> I hope things go well for you and Linda. >> It sounds like you are doing terrific things. >> >> Dan >> >>> On Sep 20, 2023, at 4:45 PM, Philip Brownell
Here in Downunder land, there is great felt support for Ukraine and acknowledgement of the invasion. Who knows what will happen, but good to hear what you’ve been doing Phil, and Peter.
Warmest, Alan
From: Dan Bloom Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 4:06 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: In Kyiv
:)
On Sep 20, 2023, at 7:53 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi all, I share here the 'save the date' of a dialogue between GT and relational psychoanalysis. I guess that some of you may be interested. Warmly, Gianni
Thank you, Gianni! Yanmin ---- Replied Message ---- | From | Gianni Francesetti<[log in to unmask]> | | Date | 06/12/2023 21:22 | | To | GSTALT-L<[log in to unmask]> | | Subject | Conference 2023: Beyond Trauma | Hi all, I share here the 'save the date' of a dialogue between GT and relational psychoanalysis. I guess that some of you may be interested. Warmly, Gianni -- Gianni Francesetti M.D., Psychiatrist, Gestalt Therapist IPsiG - International Institute for Gestalt Therapy and Psychopathology www.ipsig.it Poiesis - Turin Clinical Center for Gestalt Therapy www.poiesistorino.it Psichiatra Psicoterapeuta Via Cibrario 29, 10143, Torino Istituto Internazionale di Psicopatologia e Psicoterapia
Unfortunately I will be away working that whole weekend. I hope there will be recordings of sessions.
Best wishes,
Peter
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 at 14:22, Gianni Francesetti < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi all, > I share here the 'save the date' of a dialogue between GT and relational > psychoanalysis. > I guess that some of you may be interested. > Warmly, > Gianni > > -- > Gianni Francesetti > M.D., Psychiatrist, Gestalt Therapist > IPsiG - International Institute for Gestalt Therapy and Psychopathology > www.ipsig.it > Poiesis -
Thank you Peter! Yes, the conference will be recorded.
Il giorno mer 14 giu 2023 alle ore 12:13 Peter Philippson < [log in to unmask]> ha scritto:
> Dear Gianni, > > Thank you for sharing that information. > > Unfortunately I will be away working that whole weekend. I hope there > will be recordings of sessions. > > Best wishes, > > Peter > > On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 at 14:22, Gianni Francesetti < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I share here the 'save the date' of a dialogue between GT and relational >> psychoanalysis. >> I
For the first time since John Kennedy I find myself interested in a democrat for President. And it took a Kennedy to do it. Many would say that his voice is a deal breaker, but because of his voice you have to listen more closely, and when you do, you find out that the man makes sense, that he is informed, that he doesn’t buy into the typical binaries and simplistic sound bites that perpetuate the divides. He’s not yet a packaged product for public consumption.
And he is a vaccine denier. I guess that makes him a critical thinker?
Dan
> On Jun 8, 2023, at 11:51 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > For the first time since John Kennedy I find myself interested in a democrat for President. And it took a Kennedy to do it. Many would say that his voice is a deal breaker, but because of his voice you have to listen more closely, and when you do, you find out that the man makes sense, that he is informed, that he doesn’t buy into the typical binaries and simplistic
You need to look into it more than simply swallowing the DNCs tarnishing efforts. Listen to him talk about what both parties did to the country in the shut downs. Listen to how small minority owned businesses were demolished and big online businesses (Amazon) soaked up the profits. As for the vaccines, that is still an open consideration is it not? I understand WHY we rushed to push them out, but I’m not sure the long term evidence is quite as one sided and obvious as the popular opinion would have it.
Now, in addition to some reasonable positions, I also think he’s a bit out there with regards to other things. And, I disagree with him on Ukraine. Call me a one-issue guy, but if someone will support Ukraine, I’m for him. If someone is against Ukraine, or takes a silly approach and says we just need to end the dying (like stop in place and reward Russia with what they’ve taken so far), that doesn’t work for me, and I’ll vote against them. People change and political policies evolve. We’ll see where everyone’s
Off the top of my head? Not much at all, other than that he was a direct student of Husserl.
Funny you should ask. I dreamt last night about Husserl’s Cartesian Meditations. Don’t bother to ask. :)
D.
> On May 19, 2023, at 6:24 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > What do you know of Roman Ingarden? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ______________ > Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking
Ingarden was indeed a student of Husserl’s, and a friend and correspondent for a time with Stein, who was not only a student of Husserl but also his assistant. Ingarden wrote a three volume opus in Polish that is in the process of being translated into English, and he is known largely as a philosopher of literature. However, the opus was titled Controversy Over the Existence of the World (in which he takes issue with Husserl’s transcendental idealism). The translation of the first volume is dedicated to Izchak Miller and Dallas Willard. Willard
> On May 19, 2023, at 9:04 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Off the top of my head? Not much at all, other than that he was a direct student of Husserl. > > Funny you should ask. I dreamt last night about Husserl’s Cartesian Meditations. Don’t bother to ask. :) > > D. > > >> On May 19, 2023, at 6:24 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> What do you know of Roman Ingarden? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ______________ >> Gstalt-L is an independent
> On May 19, 2023, at 8:27 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Far be it from me (to ask). > > Ingarden was indeed a student of Husserl’s, and a friend and correspondent for a time with Stein, who was not only a student of Husserl but also his assistant. Ingarden wrote a three volume opus in Polish that is in the process of being translated into English, and he is known largely as a philosopher of literature. However, the opus was titled Controversy Over the Existence of the World (in which he takes issue
> On May 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Here it is. > >> On May 19, 2023, at 8:27 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >> Far be it from me (to ask). >> >> Ingarden was indeed a student of Husserl’s, and a friend and correspondent for a time with Stein, who was not only a student of Husserl but also his assistant. Ingarden wrote a three volume opus in Polish that is in the process of being translated into English, and
Phil said: “ . . . the situation is more complex than simply calling populists racists or xenophobes. It’s not that they hate other people. They care more for themselves at this point than they do for others’ And that is self regulation.” (which doesn’t mean we have to admire it. But it is survival.)
John, Glad for your thoughts, but you didn’t agree with me. You took the opportunity to express your own thoughts and “take” on populism and, for me, to do the same old thing. I just love how the opposing people are typically characterized as virtual trailer trash (low income, poor, and poorly educated). So, what can you expect from people who just don’t know any better (not like us, we the better off and better educated). This is the same old song I’ve heard for decades from people who put Christians down as needing a crutch (of religion) in order
I was wondering if you found anything else of interest in my post.
And I was deeply touched by your closing wishes. BTW “”trailer trash” is your characterization not mine.
> On May 18, 2023, at 4:09 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > John, > Glad for your thoughts, but you didn’t agree with me. You took the opportunity to express your own thoughts and “take” on populism and, for me, to do the same old thing. I just love how the opposing people are typically characterized as virtual trailer trash (low income, poor, and poorly educated).
Hi John, Yes. You said, "When people percieve that they are under threat, being cheated, ignored, or even not-taken-care-of, it raises that part of the human pyche we call 'self interest.’” If the strategies of xenophobia are used, without the essential dynamic being that the populists hate people wanting to immigrate, or that they are essentially racist, then I agree with that as well, but I also think there is more going on. The friction is between globalism and nationalism (or at least that is one binary involved). And the privileged perspective, it seems, among progressives is globalism. Which means
Dear Dan, One side says the Durham report proves that the “conspiracy theories” are true. The other side says the Durham report is a “nothing burger.” I decided to read it for myself rather than rely on Jake Tapper or Fox News.
From the executive summary at the beginning:
"These examples are also markedly different from the FBI' s actions with respect to other highly significant intelligence it received from a trusted foreign source pointing to a Clinton campaign plan to vilify Trump by tying him to Vladimir Putin so as to divert attention from her own concerns relating to
I appreciate the care you took in preparing your response. I trust your good faith. You and are, however, approach the same set of facts from different horizons of perspectives and necessarily see and choose different things as figural.
I don’ want to get into an exchange about all this here. But, I can say that I don’t see any equivalence between Durham’s findings and Mueller’s or any of the findings of the two investigations that led to T’s impeachment. I also see that the issue of T’s refusal to hand over and hiding documents in National Archives matter
Dan, How do you imagine that the divide will be healed if people are not willing to engage? You said we have two different horizons (all that is held possible in a given world), and I think that is a good way, a phenomenological way, and a gestalt way of depicting the situation, a situation that is not just comprised of one world. One perspective. It seems to me that people have to be willing to try on the perspective of the other. Consider the data inherent to the other perspective.
> On May 18, 2023, at 3:19 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dan, > How do you imagine that the divide will be healed if people are not willing to engage? You said we have two different horizons (all that is held possible in a given world), and I think that is a good way, a phenomenological way, and a gestalt way of depicting the situation, a situation that is not just comprised of one world. One perspective. It seems to me that people have to be willing to try on the perspective of the other. Consider
OK. But I don’t understand what you mean by false equivalence. And I don’t understand why you say the Republicans subverted more, and I am open to learning why you say that.
You would prefer talking theology over politics. That does sound better. : - )
Phil
> On May 18, 2023, at 1:33 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Below > >> On May 18, 2023, at 3:19 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >> Dan, >> How do you imagine that the divide will be healed if people are not willing to engage? You said we
> On May 16, 2023, at 1:29 AM, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/15/probe-of-fbis-handling-of-trump-russia-investigation-ends?traffic_source=KeepReading > > > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, <http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L,> and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.
Check this out. You may disagree, but then welcome to contact and difference. Some of the things these people are saying in response to the Durham report ring true to me. Especially the bit about why wouldn’t one suspect the results of the 2020 election given all that took place leading up to it. I’m not saying I suspect its legitimacy, but I HAVE lost faith in the system. Justice is NOT blind in the USA.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/us/politics/durham-report-trump-russia.html After Years of Political Hype, the Durham Inquiry Failed to Deliver nytimes.com
> On May 16, 2023, at 3:29 AM, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/15/probe-of-fbis-handling-of-trump-russia-investigation-ends?traffic_source=KeepReading > > > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.
Dan, And so here we are again. The divide in our country has only deepened. And yet, occasionally, there is light shining through a spot in the clouds—as when Jake Tapper admitted that the report did exonerate Trump. There was no Russian collusion—only dirty tricks paid for by Clinton that got picked up by the FBI and the congress, who had confirmation bias (which is, frankly, if you really understand what confirmation bias is, synonymous in that context to political preference). I think one person put it well, saying that if you really believe Trump to be the devil incarnate,
Personally Phil, I give the right as much respect as they give to the poor, including the poor in need of medical services, minorities, people who have no religion or a different religion...
Sometimes they even persuade those people to support them, usually against another external threat or imagined threat. They use fear and paranoia as recruiting tools, and deliberately turn people against each other.
I follow what you are saying. I try to listen. I tell people in my silo to be quiet and to listen, too. I won’t watch left-wing propaganda stations.
The failure of both sides of the divide to take seriously the concerns of the other side is tragic. I am tired of the arguments. The right wing keeps seeing “Antifa” under every bed —“Antifa”??? And “furries” using kiddie litter in pre-schools? Damn! What’s that about, I wonder. I want to understand the depth of despair and alienation that drives such perceptions, such terror.
Among the too many problems here in the US is how the MAGA right has dominated the right-wing. It is no longer easy to hear the voices of the "kinder, gentler, conservatives” who didn’t lead their arguments with hate, paranoia, and division.
We have a crash-and-burn politics. The MAGA’s seem hell-bent on an armageddon political strategy regarding the national debt, for example, that is playing out as we speak.
I read it differently. The Tea Party and the MAGA right were fostered by people who used them to do their dirty work while looking clean themselves. That has been developing for years before Trump arrived on the scene.
Peter
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 17:49, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Peter: > > Among the too many problems here in the US is how the MAGA right has > dominated the right-wing. It is no longer easy to hear the voices of the > "kinder, gentler, conservatives” who didn’t lead their arguments with hate, > paranoia,
The Tea Party was small potatoes. MAGA has its roots in American Nativism, anti-immigration, America First, and other ultra-conservative movements. (The US was damn near not entering WW II because of the America Firsters. It’s hard to imagine how Britain could have held out without the US.)
Dear Peter, I was going to let your comments go, as I despair of having a real conversation when the versions of reality are so far apart. BUT…
Putin is not my hero, and it’s insulting to the utmost to have to read you spit out such complete garbage. I simply will not engage around the rest of that paragraph as the perspectives on what is woke and how it’s being promulgated, and the implications of such, are universes apart.
Dan, Hm. Seems to me that the “MAGA right” or whatever you want to call conservative Republicans (a lot of name calling going on), passed a bill to extend the debt ceiling but with spending cuts. So, is it fair to expect the democrats to keep spending spending spending the country into an impossible economy without any restraint? (Like either you give the democrats all they want without any pushback or you are some kind of monster?) What is wrong with reining in the debt? But instead of threatening to shut down the government they extended the debt ceiling but
Dan, I don’t think it’s fair to claim that the populism that swept Trump into office is anti-immigration. That populism continues to exist in at least half the population of the country—70-80% of the population think that Biden’s progressive direction is the WRONG direction). The right is not against immigration. They are against an open border that has no controls on how many or what kind of people are streaming into the country. It is also propaganda to label such concerns as racist. Most of the people coming into the country are not well educated and cannot fill needed positions
I am glad to find a ground for discussion so long as we avoid distortions and misstatements.
> On May 17, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dan, > I don’t think it’s fair to claim that the populism that swept Trump into office is anti-immigration. That populism continues to exist in at least half the population of the country—70-80% of the population think that Biden’s progressive direction is the WRONG direction). The right is not against immigration. They are against an open border that has no controls on how many or what kind of people
Dan, On the issue of whether or not we have an “open border,” I admit to a bit of hyperbole on the part of people who typically use that term, but I don’t think it’s xenophobia. I think it’s a reflection of the situation in which we are reaching record amounts of people coming into the country, and whereas they once came on ships from Europe through Ellis Island, they now are largely coming across the extent of the southern border, mostly from Mexico and Central America with larger numbers increasingly coming from other various places in the world as
Is not America a country of immigration apart from Native Americans?
Peter
On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:00 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dan, > On the issue of whether or not we have an “open border,” I admit to a bit > of hyperbole on the part of people who typically use that term, but I don’t > think it’s xenophobia. I think it’s a reflection of the situation in which > we are reaching record amounts of people coming into the country, and > whereas they once came on ships from Europe through Ellis Island, they now >
Look at the chart (if you could see it). In 2020 about 45% of the population was immigrant whereas in 1860 15% was immigrant (although I’m sure in 1860 they were not accounting for native Americans). I also think that currently, regardless of percentages, it is more difficult to assimilate the huge influx of the numbers of immigrants than perhaps in 1860. We no longer have the frontier where many people went to find a new life. And the sheer numbers of people is greater than at any time before (about three times as much as the previous peak). So,
“…since appearance precedes one’s consciousness, consciousness itself is conceived as a realm of givenness and absoluteness.” —Ronny Miron, "The Phenomenologyofthe Nothing: The Hidden Dialogue Between Conrad-Martius and Heidegger” in Hedwig Conrad-Martius: The Phenomenological Gateway to Reality. Springer.
Ronny Miron is a spectacular scholar and has done a great deal to make known the influence of the women who studied with Husserl. Hedwig Conrad-Martius was one. Edith Stein was another.
Il giorno dom 23 ott 2022 alle ore 22:56 Philip Brownell < [log in to unmask]> ha scritto:
> > > Sent from my iPad > > ______________ > Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt > therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be > found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives.
These days I am especially interested in pre-differentiated, pre-reflective experience. This includes both the pre-given and the given as fore-contacting. We GTs focus over-much on I functioning. ;)
What did Conrad-Martius mean by “appearance”?
Heidegger defined phenomenology as the way “to let that which shows itself be seen from itself in the very way in which it shows itself from itself. “ That fits your quote and even how we work with the figure/ground of whole phenomena.
Here. You can read it. There are two living women philosophers I love. Ronny is one (from Israel). She has done extensive work on Conrad-Martius and Stein.
> On May 4, 2023, at 12:20 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Interesting. > > These days I am especially interested in pre-differentiated, pre-reflective experience. This includes both the pre-given and the given as fore-contacting. We GTs focus over-much on I functioning. ;) > > What did Conrad-Martius mean by “appearance”? > > Heidegger defined phenomenology as the way “to let that which shows itself be seen from itself in the
On Thu, 4 May 2023, 19:20 Dan Bloom, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Interesting. > > These days I am especially interested in pre-differentiated, > pre-reflective experience. This includes both the pre-given and the given > as fore-contacting. We GTs focus over-much on I functioning. ;) >
I've been saying that for many years now! Id was given in PHG as both the pre-reflective experience, vague and hallucinatory, and in a second version where it is reflected upon enough to bring an emotion. Isadore From used the second, I've always preferred the first.
Dear Dan and Peter, HCM’s project has a great deal to do with ontology and realism. But she is steeped in Husserl-Heidegger. This extended quote below is the introduction to her chapter (the attached pdf).
Philosophically pondering the issue of the beginning, sometimes referred to as the arché,1 marks the radicality of western thinking. Thus, in his search for “the beginning (Anfang) of Phenomenology” (Husserl, 1952, §84, 191), Husserl asks: “but how [does one] find the right beginning? In point of fact, the beginning is here the most difficult thing of all” (Husserl, 1952, §63, 135).2 His questioning of the
> On May 4, 2023, at 3:17 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Hi Dan, > > On Thu, 4 May 2023, 19:20 Dan Bloom, <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> Interesting. >> >> These days I am especially interested in pre-differentiated, pre-reflective experience. This includes both the pre-given and the given as fore-contacting. We GTs focus over-much on I functioning. ;) > > > I've been saying that for many years now! Id was given in PHG as both the pre-reflective experience, vague and hallucinatory, and in a second version where it is reflected upon enough to bring an emotion.
> On May 4, 2023, at 4:31 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> On May 4, 2023, at 3:17 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> On Thu, 4 May 2023, 19:20 Dan Bloom, <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> Interesting. >>> >>> These days I am especially interested in pre-differentiated, pre-reflective experience. This includes both the pre-given and the given as fore-contacting. We GTs focus over-much on I functioning. ;) >> >> >> I've been saying that for many years now! Id was given in PHG as both the pre-reflective experience, vague and hallucinatory,
I liked that introduction very much. Thanks, Phil.
“Absolute beginning.”
Il y’a, to Levinas.
Es gibt, to Heidegger.
And so it goes.
Dan
> On May 4, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dear Dan and Peter, > HCM’s project has a great deal to do with ontology and realism. But she is steeped in Husserl-Heidegger. This extended quote below is the introduction to her chapter (the attached pdf). > > Philosophically pondering the issue of the beginning, sometimes referred to > as the arché,1 marks the radicality of western thinking. Thus, in his search >
Il y’a — there are Es gibt — there are …(it gives)
Each states the starting point of experience.
> On May 4, 2023, at 4:40 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > I liked that introduction very much. > Thanks, Phil. > > “Absolute beginning.” > > Il y’a, to Levinas. > > Es gibt, to Heidegger. > > And so it goes. > > Dan > >> On May 4, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Dear Dan and Peter, >> HCM’s project has a great deal to do with ontology and realism.
I can see ways that I can assent to all you write below, and ways in which it is easy to slip into something very different, where Heidegger's embeddedness in the world made Hitler the Dasein of Germany. My image is of gravity, so the 'concrete' world is bigger than me and its pull on me is bigger than my pull on it. That is the danger, because, as Fritz and Lore Perls (and my parents) showed, the world embedded with me can be changed as much as the world affects me.
Dear Dan, I appreciated your summary observations about Heidegger and Husserl on the way to M-P. A person could easily spend a lifetime studying these philosophers, and I do not have the time to do that. I read some here and there, and I sense where something something seems true (I don’t care how anyone understand that term—it’s true for me). : )
Like you, I enjoy reading contemporary thinkers who’ve critically read the major thinkers and integrated them. Otherwise I’d be exhausted.
I’ve been teaching webinars on phenomenology and GT for years now so I’ve had a chance to go through the big shots and extract some themes. I trace them over the decades in terms of their relevance to contemporary GT. Each time I run a webinar, new themes stand out.
On May 4, 2023 at 6:39 PM -0400, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]>, wrote: > Phil: > > Like you, I enjoy reading contemporary thinkers who’ve critically read the major thinkers and integrated them. Otherwise I’d be exhausted. > > I’ve been teaching webinars on phenomenology and GT for years now so I’ve had a chance to go through the big shots and extract some themes. I trace them over the decades in terms of their relevance to contemporary GT. Each time I run a webinar, new themes stand out. > > Dan > > > On May 4, 2023, at 6:05
I can get that. I can see it in what you say. We’ve all been working at our respective projects for some time now. I like it.
> On May 4, 2023, at 4:39 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Phil: > > Like you, I enjoy reading contemporary thinkers who’ve critically read the major thinkers and integrated them. Otherwise I’d be exhausted. > > I’ve been teaching webinars on phenomenology and GT for years now so I’ve had a chance to go through the big shots and extract some themes. I trace them over the decades in terms
> On May 4, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Thanks Dan, > I can see ways that I can assent to all you write below, and ways in which it is easy to slip into something very different, where Heidegger's embeddedness in the world made Hitler the Dasein of Germany. My image is of gravity, so the 'concrete' world is bigger than me and its pull on me is bigger than my pull on it. That is the danger, because, as Fritz and Lore Perls (and my parents) showed, the world embedded with me can be changed
