Good Morning all,
I was determined to remain mute on issues brought up on the list, because of a seriously increased workload
for one, in addition to the acerbic tenor of responses from a few members on the list, for another.
However, I have decided to break my silence briefly in order to address Mr. Lamin Ceesay’s reaction to a
posting by Mr. Tom Coker.
From the start I must admit to being more than puzzled by Mr. Ceesay’s reaction to the post, but became
increasingly a bit unsettled because of my lack of clarity on Mr. Ceesay’s basic position on a few issues
raised including the issue of what constitutes scholarship in Mr. Ceesay’s own mind.
Scholarly Logic
In his second posting on the issue and in defense of his attack (or criticism as Mr. Ceesay terms it) of
Afrocentrism, Mr Ceesay states that he is attacking its “lack of scholarly logic.” As his rationale for such
a claim, Mr. Ceesay points to what he considers the motivations of the Afrocentric thought, which he states
are “based on purely on raising the self esteem of a people...” I must confess at this point, that I am not
very clear as to what Mr. Ceesay views as “scholarly logic” because he immediately discusses the idea of
motivations, which in my mind is a separate issue from scholarship. This is to say, that his own “logic” as
to the relationship between motivations and “scholarly logic” escapes me. Perhaps, Mr. Ceesay can enlighten
me about this relationship, however until that time I will continue to hold the view that motivations,
although interesting, are a non-issue with regards to scholarship.
Good and Sound Academic Reasoning
Again, I am at a loss as to how Mr. Ceesay links two concepts when he states “there is a difference between
good and sound academic reasoning based solely on evidence and not [on] a few people writing books.” What is
the point here? Are you saying that all “Afrocentric” writing is completely devoid of “good and sound
academic reasoning based solely on evidence”? Is some Afrocentric writing devoid of this same reasoning? I
really need some clarification here, because I would not know how to address the issue which Mr. Ceesay is
raising. However, whatever position Mr. Ceesay holds, I would hope that he would present us with some
examples of this void, so that we may honestly examine the particular points, in addition to discussing
generalities. Again, the clarity of Mr. Ceesay’s “logic” escapes me.
Origins of Afrocentrism
Following this, Mr. Ceesay appeals to L-members’ sense of reason, writing: “I hope that members will share my
view on the origins of afrocentrism.” My own sense of reason does NOT share this view, probably because I,
being in the category of those people he has pointed out as having “anglo-saxon christian names” as a legacy
of colonialism, slavery and other historical and social forces, does in fact, see things a bit differently
than he does. (I must confess, I am at a total loss as to what point Mr. Ceesay is making by these
assertions about names and genealogy.) Whatever the case, let us move forward. Although I am aware of the
various Pan-African Congresses, initiated between 1901 and 1945, I am not certain as to the singular root of
Afrocentrism, and indeed, I think it would be hard to trace, because of its very nature. But, I would
certainly put it before the beginning of the 20th century. At the very least, one could think in terms of at
least 71 years earlier, with the provocative 1829 publication of David Walker’s Appeal, which preceded Mr.
Walker’s mysterious death a year later. Moreover, certainly those individuals who fought to seek and
maintain their own freedom, by escaping slavery, and organizing their own communities, based upon principles
of leadership, and organization they remembered from home, can be considered Afrocentrists. Thus, the
numerous maroon communities found all over the African diaspora, to some extent can be seen in this light.
(Of course, there were some flaws , but at the very least, the impetus for their creation as well as their
organization was initially based upon, what we could call Afrocentric thought, in the sense, that it drew
upon traditional African perspectives, of social organization.) However, given all of this, what is the point
you are trying to make Mr. Ceesay? How does this history of struggle, validate or invalidate Afrocentric
writing as being scholarly?
I am not sure what point you are making concerning Diop’s “faults.” Faults in a scholar, or in scholarship
is no crime, besides which human being is perfect? In fact, scholarship is very often flawed. That is why
debates spring up. There is no harm in this, and in fact, I believe it is most fruitful for all sides of the
debate, as we get to see the various positions, and perspectives surrounding various issues. One strikes a
stance, sets forth his/her points, and the theoretical opponent levels his/her objections to the points which
are raised. In such an exchange, everyone stands a chance of growth. When the exchange degenerates
exclusively into personal attacks, then outside of the prurient excitement which it may generate, no one
benefits.
The Centrist Denial
I am not aware of Nkrumah calling the Negritude movement pseudo-intellectualism, but I will make it a point
to do some reading to locate the passage to which you refer. However, I certainly do not agree with the
point which Mr. Ceesay makes when he says that “afrocentrism denies the descendants of egyptians,Phoenicians
the very same merit it accuses the west.which is my point.” If this is your point, then your point certainly
misrepresents the facts. In his early 1980's work entitled “The Afrocentric Idea” Molefi Asante, who
actually coined the term “Afrocentricity,” makes a point of saying that all people should maintain a thinking
centered in their own culture. However, he continues that this centered thinking should not be taken as
“objective” thought, which is his criticism of Euro-American culture. It is their Eurocentrism, which is
promoted as “objective” thought. Asante suggests, (and quite rightly, in my own estimation), that the
EuroAmerican “objectivity” is nothing more than their own “collective subjectivity.” It is not clear that
this is what you are doing here, but I am eager to understand your own logic.
Ancestry
The mixed ancestry of Africans in the diaspora, including African Americans is indisputable, however what is
the point? Yes, there are differences, however, there are some shared legacies as well, and it is precisely
our need to come together collectively, that fuels some of our agendas.
Mande Resentment
Finally, I am not at all clear why you would “resent the mande(mandingo)bit,...[as] an insult to [y]our
heritage” This is one that seriously baffles me. Resent? Even if we were to take your position (which I do
not), that there was no one from the Mande empire voyaged to the Americas prior to the voyages of Columbus,
why should this be a source of irritation?
At any rate, the world is wonderful and large, and the diversity of opinions and perspectives make this a
more wonderful and mysterious world in which to live and grow. It is my sincere wish to learn a little more,
and apply that learning to improve our lot in life; this forum has provided us with an opportunity for that
learning. In that light, I must take this opportunity to thank those of you who have responded to this post,
as you shared rather pertinent perspectives and information. These people include: Tom Coker, who made the
original post as well as subsequent responses; Ginny Quick, who always has shown an inquisitive mind; Latjor
Ndow, who is always on top of the situation and whose own breadth of knowledge is a constant astonishment to
me; Musa Jawara, who added some anecdotal information; EB Jarjue, who offered an interesting website; Bakary
Sonko, who offered some present-day analogies as well as a rally call; Joe Sambou, who asked pertinent
questions; Sidi Sanneh, who asked questions and gave some relevant insights; Yusupha Jow, whose always
thought provoking comments were added to this issue; and Prince O’Brien Coker, who made us remember the dry
but insightful writings of the seminal mind of Fanon.
Thank you and have a good day.
MW Payne
Lamin Ceesay wrote:
> please do not misinterpret my point I did not intend to launch a personal
> attack on anyone and I strongly apologise,mr sanneh,mr coker etc
> my criticism of afrocentrism is its lack of scholarly logic.its it based
> purely on raising the self esteem of a people who live in a society that
> probably regrets bringing them there.there is racism in america and
> certainly a lot of blacks have been denied a lot of things.but there is a
> difference between good and sound academic reasoning based solely on
> evidence and not a few people writing books.I hope that members will share
> my view on the origins of afrocentrism.by and large it could be traced to
> the early parts of the last century with the civil right movement and the
> nationalism movements for independence in africa.c.a diop was a brilliant
> man,but he had his faults and his work should not me taken as fact!that is
> purely wrong.he was not an egyptologist nor are many of the people kindly
> listed by latjor.indeed he was,as did senghor with negritude,out of
> nationalism,trying to link ancient egypt more to west africa,where does that
> put south africans??
> I believe it was Nkrumah who called it pseudo-intellectualism by the french
> educated bourgeoisie!I have and am not expressing and self hatred but
> afrocentrism denies the descendants of egyptians,Phoenicians the very same
> merit it accuses the west.which is my point.it might well be true that the
> west is/was eurocentric.being part of the same race does not mean that one
> has to take credit some one else's work.lets face it Icelanders did not
> build Rome,to be black does not represent unity,there are "black people" in
> india,australia new guinea, etc we are not all the same and considering
> that most people now called "blacks" in america have a mixed ancestry.
> I'm sure you can tell from my name why I resent the mande(mandingo)bit,its
> an insult to our heritage and I would go into it again.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sidi Sanneh" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: IT's NOT NOT NOT NOT A BLACK THING...
>
> > Mr Ceesay,
> >
> > Some pretty harsh words for a simple posting about African-American
> > accomplishments. Afrocentric crap? pseudo-intellectualism? Just another
> way
> > by a growing middle class African-American, blacks etc to satisfy their
> > ego? How could you reach such a conclusion about the African-American
> > middle class? Do you know how long Tom Ola Coker has lived and worked in
> > the United States for you to have the gull to say to him that he should
> > throughly figure out African-American history and why they've got Anglo-
> > Saxon Christian names? You can disagree by all means but not to the point
> > of being disrespectful.
> >
> > To Ginny: Dr Charles Drew's story is factual. He was denied the same
> blood
> > transfusion technique he inv
> > ented. He was left for dead on the road side
> > where the car accident occured.
> >
> > Sidi Sanneh
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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