Men, I don't think I can keep up with your latitude in comprehension. I am
therefore all the way behind you if you promise temperance in demarche.
I do want to share something with you though. You indicated Einstein spoke
from a position of contemporaneous experiences of Nazism. And that he emigrated
to the US. When he emigrated, it may have been a rude awakening to find a
variance of crime and criminality in the US. Have you read Einstein's notes on
the ware of his new home? In effect, it is the nature of crimes/evil and the
character of the councillor/s that augurs grainer review. You could say that
when he spoke from experience of Nazism, he were not aware of yonder evil or
councillors. That is the domain of hindsight. ANd that is where I wished to
share comparative sociologies.
It is worth looking into if only to yield the harbinger of E=mc^2.
I don't think if the tabloid were for sale for a farthing, that you would
have subscribed. FYI, I have never visited Freedom online Tabloid and I do not
intend to for what I may be missing yonder. There is a larger value of freedom
of expression and scope of punishment.
Even with the above ideas and if you are not to be deterred, I am in support
of your principles if you conclude there is no more appropriate deterrence.
Haroun Masoud. MQDT. Darbo. Over and out.
In a message dated 11/10/2007 7:42:50 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
"Yanks you're a pain in the friggin neck - Pa Nderry's Cruelty" Haruna
You know I hate to cause you any pain big Bro; so please accept my sincere
apology.
HI Bro Yanks, I am very pleased you took the time to share the principles
upon which you are operating vis-a-vis Pa Nderry. I think it makes a lot of
sense. There were a few misplaced submissions but by and large, I do not not
intend to dissuade you from pursuits in either vengeance, retribution, or
exact
punishment not to exceed the crime should you so be able to qualify. I do
take
brotherly exception to a couple of principles in sociology that you share
here with no intent for aversion to Kant or Einstein. For they are
honourable
men. Haruna
Thanks for the encouragement; I just find it baseless an argument where one
does not learn anything. That is the substance in quoting Kant and Einstein
to make even a topic as frivolous as relating to an uneducated hulk like Pa
Nderry Mbai a bit educative. But in no vain did it mean to be a contest between
brothers, I love you too much and even on this email I learn so much from
you. You need never to feel that i don’t heed to your advices, regardless of
how painful and in inconvenience I feel to depart from my fanatic principles.
[Kotekeh Haruna!
Immanuel Kant wrote in philosophy of law 1887 that:
“Even if a Civil Society resolved to dissolve itself with the consent of all
its members – as might be supposed in the case of a people inhabiting an
island resolving to separate and scatter themselves throughout the world –
the
last Murderer lying in the prison ought to be executed before the resolution
was carried out. This ought to be done in order that every one may realise
the
desert of his deeds, and that bloodguiltiness may not remain upon the
people;
for otherwise they might all be regarded as participators in the murder as
public violation of justice”.] Philosophy of law, page 198. Yanks.
“This may come as a surprise to you but I acknowledge the value of
renovation
Kant shares. He pre-supposes that the resolution to dissolve our community
with the consent of all our colleagues. In our case, we have not arrived at
such resolution yet. Kant further presumes that post-dissolution, the
community
will inevitably reform in some manner, similar to, or different from the
manner of the communion to be dissolved. With that in mind therefore, the
execution of the last murderer in Julangel ought to be contemplated with
sobriety
and propriety. If clearing the conscience of the society is the impetus for
erasure, I would share that a society with a clear conscience is a band of
marauding bandits. Renaissance's nourishment is the concept of review of
history.
It is no wonder Kant is not with us today and he does not share the story of
his forebears”. Haruna
Bro I commend you for the attempt in interpreting the principle laid here by
Immanuel Kant. I admire your appraisals especially on this sentence: “If
clearing the conscience of the society is the impetus for erasure, I would share
that society with a clear conscience is a band of marauding bandits” HD. But
I differ to agree to its supposition here. Since, if a society with a clear
conscience is a band of marauding bandits; then one wonders what a society
without a clear conscience would be; a war turn country? I can live at peace
with marauding bandits but can’t live in a war torn nation, simply I may get
killed. On the issue itself, my appraisal of what Immanuel Kant expressed here
is that crime should never go unpunished; every crime should be redressed,
whether this cannot be achieved or impossible in the circumstance or
unimportant, should not be the conclusion, but the starting point. The point should be
to see that crime punish; this is only that may yield to deterrence,
retribution on behalf of the victims by way of punishment.
["This is the school of thought I subscribe to brother, some philosophers
prefer calling it retributivist, some describe it as the cruel school of
thought
and I guess from your conclusion this is a mental school of thought. Yet we
are not as worst as the ‘lex talionis’ the believers of the theory ‘eye for
an eye, tooth for tooth’.
Retributivists prefer to regard themselves as not cruel or mental as one
would suppose, they treat a man with dignity, regarding him as a responsible
agent. They give him a chance to expiate his crime by suffering, more or
less a
debt analogy, if you owe it, you pay it. Alternatively, far from being
cruel,
retribution is the offender’s right. How else is the breach between him and
society to be healed? Or, at least retribution is not needlessly cruel,
since
society must denounce crimes in an emphatic way, and the only available
method is retributive sentencing.] Yanks.
“My brother, I do subscribe to your view immediately above. However, the
nature and councillor of retribution or punishment ought to be carefully
studied.
De minimis, its character and scope may not be in excess of the affect of
the crime. That is what I share. It is quite alright to wish to exact
punishment and or revenge, however, a farthing more punishment than is
proprietary
begs Hamurabi ad-infinitum. Further, the affect on the councillor, of even
equivalent punishment must be considered prior. That is what I speak to for
my
brother”. Haruna
Bro I do understand the view point you share here; in fact it is very
similar, if not exactly the same to the views of utilitarian camp leader Jeremy
Bentham in his book: An Introduction to the Principles of Morals and
Legislation, 1970”. In it, he stated that “All punishment was in it self an evil, and
could only be justified as far as it prevented some greater evil”. But Brother
even the Good Samaritan utilitarians accepted that the pain of punishment
may be outweighed by its good consequences if it deters the offender from
re-offending again, or if it can be occasion for reforming the offender, or a
result in a dangerous person being removed from society. My sole aim in
contemplating on starting another paper to destroy freedom is not that of just
vengeance and retribution per se, but with an aim that the Evil editor of freedom
newspaper will be reformed or stopped from committing the crimes of slander and
libel against innocent people.
"Retributivists are different from the believers of lex talionis because
quite frankly they are mental, since the exact equivalent of harm cannot be
meted out to most offenders. For example, one cannot defraud a fraudster nor
can
you rape a rapist." Yanks.
“Indeed, one can defraud a fraudster and a rapist too”. Haruna
I totally agree with you here Bro, and I take my analogy back!
"Retributivists concept of punishment if translated into the thoughts of
Mandinka-kebba is that: one cannot speak to someone in a language they don’t
understand; it is complete waste of energy, but if they speak Mandinka and
you
response in Mandinka then they understand." Yanks.
“I am reminded that in the lexicography of the Mandinka language, there are
inflexions of varying tenor and emphasis. Yanks I understand what you're
saying. I do not intend to take away from the excitement of punishment and
prejudice. I merely urge more careful consideration as to manner and
councillor”. Haruna
A point of utility; I heed to the advice big Bro and I promise due diligence
will be taken when executing the justice against the venom of Pa Nderry.
"From the retributivist point of view it is not madness to challenge cruel
slanderers like Pa Ndery Mbai and the best way to do this, is to treat it
like
a debt which he owes and needs to pay back. To succeed in achieving this, one
’
s appraisal has to give consideration to the medium used by the culprits in
perpetrating the evil they have committed, in this case an on line
newspaper.
Is it for vainglorious pursuits? No. Is it worth it? yes!" Yanks.
“You share that the conduit of Pa Nderry's crime is an on-line tabloid. And
it is free. Should you consider appraising the value of its product and
circulation as well as the medium? Why would you want to expend energy,
time, and
resources to punish an invalid? Might you consider the manner of punishment
therefore?” Haruna
Well, the alternative will be to condone his crimes, which is criminality
itself, as explained by Einstein below.
"Albert Einstein, the great physician himself, once answered the question of
who is a criminal, with this analogy. He it is not he who commits the crime
in society; but he who has the power and means to stop the criminal or to do
something about him and failed to do so or act accordingly to stop the
criminality. If this analogy is applied to the scenario in topic here, it is
not Pa
Nderry who is the culprit perpetrating the crimes but we the able Gambians
who seat and fold our hands together and do nothing except to wish for Pa
Nderry’s mercy. I refuse to be that criminal." Yanks.
“I understand Yanks. I believe you shared that Pa Nderry has committed the
crime or crimes. He therefore was not barred from the act of committing the
crime or crimes. The commission of crimes is complete. Witness your desire
to
exact punishment. What Einstein shares is premised on the acknowledgement
that
the criminal comes from the society. And to the extent his crime is odious;
the society ought to reconsider its ware. That is the moral behind
Einstein's
submission. If its any consolation to you, I hold no brief, neither do I
muster empathy for Pa Nderry. I believe however that he is on a journey
toward
rehabilitation at no expense to you or society. That is the regenerative
power
Einstein urges us consider”. Haruna
Bro you do not need to reiterate nor remind that you would not muster
empathy for Pa Nderry against me. I know that you would only muster empathy for me;
because I am the family here. Is that not what the adage says; “Blood is
thicker than water”. However, I think Einsten’s proposition above is to inform
society that it has a duty to fight against crime. Remember Einstein had been
a witness to a society that failed in this obligation and it led to its own
defeat in the hands of societies that acted to uphold this duty. Einstein was
in Germany and witnessed the growth of Nazism until he had to flee to the
United States.
"On the other hand Brother I perused your advice and reasoned well, but
could not come to total agreement with it. Though I agree with you to some
extent
but I was of the opinion that yours sounded more like a utilitarian view on
punishment than a retributivist. For the former I have washed my hands with
it since my days of studying theories of punishment and sentencing. But
saying
that I do not harbour abhorrence for the concept of utilitarianism, in fact
I tend to believe that utilitarianism is a concept developed or based on
love
and kindness for ones kin's. This is very good and I do think, brother
Haruna, your advice here was manifesting your love for a brother." Yanks.
“I have always known you wise and discerning. I am pleased you recognize
value in my pleadings”. Haruna
I have always regarded you as the master and I’m always learning from the
Big bro.
"I hope you would not wonder what in the heck is all this philosophy about,
well the premises of my intention in creating an online paper to challenge
Pa
Nderry and Freedom Newspaper, is based on my retributivist believe that the
punishment best fitting the crime of Pa Ndery is what has been clichéd as
making one taste the fruit of his own medicine or deeds, which ever way it
is
phrased. Bro mine is not vainglorious pursuits but based on a true
philosophical principle." Yanks.
“I understood Bro. I take a liking to philosophy oftentimes. I was pleased
to
read Kant and Einstein again. The energy, time, and resources you intend to
invest in the mirror, would you consider investing it in the victims of Pa
Nderry, whosoever were to have been so aversed?” Haruna
On a second thought Bro that’s a good advice; but Nah I can’t let that
criminal continue
his venom against our people; some time I can be very altruistic in nature
and I hope we
both share that.
"I hope I have done you no offence." Yanks.
Far from it brother and colleague. I enjoy you thoroughly. I hope we have
yielded each other a good turn.
Sincerely, Haroun Masoud. MQDT. AL Mu'Umin.
Brethren Yanks
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