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Subject:
From:
ABDOUKARIM SANNEH <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:50:59 +0100
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Kabirr it should stated like this.....The best system of government is 
that which allows ideas to flow 
and
which rewards personal enterprise but at the same time put checks and
balances in place so that the less unfortunate amongst us are not 
treated
worse than animals. I am sorry for misquoting and the rest of the text 
is as follows... I really agree with you on that note and that is what 
is
> social justice. Any perspective of development should have human face 
and
> that is why the present human rights literatures give emphasis not 
only
> political freedom to social and economic development.I value you 
thought
> and visualisation of the events folding in our continent is similar 
to ideal
> of Dr Ebrima Sall another respected Pan Africanist. I am learning a 
lot your
> frank digestion of events folding in our continent. Africans need 
both
> education and re-education if we are to shape our future.
>


Kabir Njaay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  Abdou,

It seems text from two different threads have gotten mixed up here. Did you
copy and paste? Because the quoted text below about journalist Nderry is not
from me.

Regards,

Kabir.


On 7/2/07, ABDOUKARIM SANNEH wrote:
>
> Kabirr stated...Why are you bragging too much as being a journalist Pa
> like you are
> one. Where do you get your journalist degree from? You are just like a
> monkey in the dry forest with match in hand. Why do you want to
> discredit the good reputation of every body who worked very hard to build
> a
> niche? What do you achieve in life? The last time I checked, you only get
> a secondary four certificate with a pen in hand calling yourself a
> journalist. I really agree with you on that note and that is what is
> social justice. Any perspective of development should have human face and
> that is why the present human rights literatures give emphasis not only
> political freedom to social and economic development.I value you thought
> and visualisation of the events folding in our continent is similar to ideal
> of Dr Ebrima Sall another respected Pan Africanist. I am learning a lot your
> frank digestion of events folding in our continent. Africans need both
> education and re-education if we are to shape our future.
>
> Kabir Njaay wrote: Abdou,
>
> I'm not altogether sure I understand your question.
>
> However, Pan-Africanism is a mere idea, a movement, if you like and not
> all
> Pan-Africanists are inclined towards socialism. Liberal capitalism is a
> system which I will never advocate. People are and should be more
> important
> than things. Africans should never aspire for the brutal type of
> capitalism
> that exists in the US, for example.
>
> Only a couple of weeks ago I saw on '60 Minutes' how an old, senile lady
> was
> secretly discharged from a Los Angeles hospital, driven in a taxi to a
> crime
> infested neighbourhood where homeless people usually gather and just
> dumped
> there Thanks to CCTV cameras around the taxi could be traced and the
> lady's
> plight highlighted. Why was the lady dumped with nothing but the clothes
> on
> her back? Because she did not have a medical insurance, of course. Is
> that the type of treatment you want for Africans under a union government?
> I
> think not.
>
> Africa can find a mix that suits her development needs without being
> dogmatic. What Abdourahman Babou and Nkrumah advocated was not far from
> that. Nkrumah's government saw to the building of basic infrastructure
> that
> is still benefitting Ghanaians. Ghana was able to come quicker out of its
> economic crisis of the eighties and early nineties thanks to that basic
> infrastructure that was already put in place by Nkrumah's government. The
> industrialisation drive, the mass investment in education and health,
> etc.,
> are what gave Ghana the chance to make a quick come back. look at Ghana
> today. Her colleges and universities had produced numerous skillful
> Ghanaians with the know-how to contribute positively towards recovery.
>
> On repression, can you show that Pan.Africanist leaders with a socialist
> outlook are more brutal dictators than their reactionary counterparts?
> That
> is a mere myth circulated by the enemies of the continent. The most brutal
> dictators Africa has knows are among others, Amin, Mobutu, Nguema, Doe,
> etc.
> Any of these that you can call a Pan-Africanist or a socialist? None! You
> should not allow yourself to swallow without chewing, it's dangerous.
>
> I guess you know about the CIA's and the West's dirty wars against
> progressive African leaders like Nkrumah, Lumumba, the ANC, and now
> Zimbabwe. There's your reason why. Responsible leaders are not just going
> to
> sit idly by and watch reactionaries in cahoots with imperialist set back
> gains already achieved.
>
> Besides, when Africans were fighting to free themselves from the yoke of
> colonialism who were the more dedicated ones at the barricades? It was
> always those with a socialist outlook. That did not mean they preferred
> 'communism' to capitalism, no, it was because capitalism constituted the
> enemy. It was the socialist countries who helped the Liberation movements
> whiles as late as the 90's Margret Thacher was still dishonestly referring
> to Mandela and the rest of the ANC as 'dangerous Communist' and
> 'terrorist'.
> Do we not have an ANC government in power today in South Africa? Do they
> have a socialist system? No, they have a brutal capitalist system that has
> allowed the blood suckers to keep their loot and there has been no form of
> affirmative action the redress the economic inequalities that carried over
> from Apartheid, so excuse me if I don't understand what you are talking
> about. The best system of government is that which allows ideas to flow
> and
> which rewards personal enterprise but at the same time put checks and
> balances in place so that the less unfortunate amongst us are not treated
> worse than animals.
>
> Have you ever stopped to think why America is so violent?
>
> If you re-read my mail to you yesterday, you will see that I pointed out
> how
> tyrants will no longer to able to get away with their crimes under a
> united
> Africa. There just would be no need even since there will be a federal
> security and justice system that guarantees the rights of all Africans and
> none can overthrow a government of Africa. So why should there be a need
> for
> political repression?
>
> Regards,
>
> Kabir.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/2/07, ABDOUKARIM SANNEH wrote:
> >
> > Kabirr
> > Thanks for your enlighten piece but I am just wandering whether Pan
> > Africanism should devorce from its past historical ideal of Socialism
> and
> > focus on building a united African base on globalisation the center
> stage of
> > which is capitalist economy with its determinant market economy, private
> > property etc. Many scholars of Pan Africanist literature only posulate
> > socialist economy as the solution to our underdevelopment. We have also
> seem
> > many adovocates of Pan-Africanism end up suppressing civil liberty,
> human
> > rights and process for democratisation in our continent. Kabirr on that
> note
> > having been aware of the present realties of our continent which way
> should
> > the struggle to fight against dehumanisation in the context of Pan
> > Africanism be directed. It the old ideas of adovate like the late
> Abdouraman
> > Babu, Kwame, Mugabe et al. We have been our power abosulely corrupt the
> > latter to an extend that hecome an enemy of opposing views. Should Pan
> > Africanism embrace liberal
> > demoracy, free and fair election or should continue it the utopian
> dreams
> > of scientific Socialism. Reading Walter Rodny, Fanon, Cheirkh Anta et al
> > they did not come up with define political formula but many like cabral
> and
> > Kwame were postulating than the solution of our problem is scientific
> > socialism directed toward marxism /Leninism. Looking into global
> domination
> > of capitalist economy even China is capitalist economy but cosmetic
> dressing
> > with communism because the ruling elite fear of losing power through
> > multiparty demoractisation process.
> >
> > Kabir Njaay wrote:
> > Hi Abdou,
> >
> > Sorry for the late response! I promised myself yesterday to give this a
> > tardy response today.
> >
> > Well, 'Pan-Africanism' to me means simply 'Pan-African brotherhood and
> > oneness'.
> >
> > I believe the reason why the idea is alien, far fetched and Utopian to
> > some
> > Africans as opposed to being the necessary, long overdue and the
> natural,
> > not to mention, logical direction for Africa to take, may be due mainly
> > to lack of information about the whole idea and process.
> >
> > Philosophers tell us that no condition is permanent, that the only
> > condition
> > that is permanent is change.
> >
> > Africa of five hundred years ago was different from Africa of four
> > thousand
> > years, just as Africa of 2007 is different from Africa of 1963. One may
> > dismiss what happened so long ago as being irrelevant to Africa's
> > condition
> > today and give many rational arguments to support one's position, even
> > refer
> > to Asian countries as examples of what Africa could have been.
> >
> > Africa's experience though cannot be fairly compared with the reality of
> > any
> > other people and the legacy of both slavery and colonialism haunts
> Africa
> > to
> > this day. Many Africans, and I am in no doubt that you agree with me on
> > this, are in denial. Some would rather bury the painful past and never
> > even
> > talk about it. Yet that is totally impossible, for how can one know
> where
> > one is going if you don't know where you're coming from, and not least,
> > what
> > happened along the way?
> >
> > The most important areas that will be covered by an eventual treaty of
> > unification is in the interest of all Africans and friends of Africa.
> >
> > Integration of our political, economic and defence policies will go a
> long
> > way into curbing most disadvantages and the bullying that goes on both
> > within the continent and from without. Africa will be able to negotiate
> > agreements with other parties as equal partners because she will always
> be
> > able to flex her economic muscle. Our markets are growing increasingly
> > more
> > important for exporters and we are the producers of major raw materials
> > that
> > advanced industries need.
> >
> > Cotton growers in West Africa for example, will no longer have their
> > individual countries find markets for their products and Africa can
> demand
> > with a strengthened voice at trade talks that Western countries get rid
> of
> > subsidies to their farmers that enable them to dump their products on
> the
> > global market, marginalising African growers in the processing.
> >
> > Dictators will no longer to able to cry 'interference in the internal
> > affairs of a member country' when other AU members raise their voices
> > against tyranny. Dictators will also lose the luxury of retiring into
> > exile
> > to the country of a former ally after committing gruesome atrocities at
> > home
> > and residents of Mombasa will see it as their business if a Burkinabi
> > national suffers police brutality in Hamburg and may fore go an
> afternoon
> > in
> > the park with his son so that he can join a protest march to the German
> > embassy.
> >
> > Skillful Africans living in self-imposed exile in the West will find it
> > easier to return home and be able to contribute their know-how in a more
> > conducive environment. For many the spirit of solidarity with Africa
> will
> > outweigh the economic incentives of plying their trade in the West. Into
> > that you can bring self-image, a sense of worth and the rewards of sense
> > of
> > feeling of actualization.
> >
> > We don't need all this 'United States of,' all we need is Africa!
> >
> > After all Africa was never divided into its present borders by Africans,
> > neither was it done with our consent, so the only ones who have anything
> > to
> > fear from a unified Africa are undemocratic leaders and and those who
> > would
> > rather continue to portray Africa as a basket case whiles they continue
> to
> > suck it dry. Britain, for example, will never again be able to isolate a
> > country, as in the case of Zimbabwe, based on a lie and punish her for
> > standing up for her people. There will be a strong unified African voice
> > that will be telling Britain: 'Go hang!' and they will come back with
> > respect as they realise that the old divide-and-rule tactics works no
> > more.
> >
> > An economically and politically integrated Africa will facilitate trade,
> > big
> > and small, without the hinder of foreign exchange issues or entrance
> > permits
> > into 'another country'. Africa will be better able to resist the
> > dictatorship of the IMF and the World Bank as they try to dictate our
> > budgets.
> >
> > An African armed force may not engage in any acts of war unless in
> defence
> > of her territorial integrity or under the auspices of the UN.
> >
> > A unified Africa will better speak for itself in all fields where she
> > meets
> > other people. African integrated news networks can gather news and
> > present analysis and commentaries on African events by home-grown
> > journalist
> > who have the wherewithal to give a more informed and nuanced picture
> > than the racist reporting we still see even in 2007 from Western media
> > outlets.
> >
> > An 'afrosat' communication satellite up in the heavens can broadcast to
> > the
> > whole world on different channels to an audience both at home an abroad.
> > Diasporans, presented with a diverse choice and content-rich program
> > packages will subscribe in their millions to bring Africa into their
> > living
> > rooms. An Africa they can all identity with with pride (I have in mind
> > here
> > those in denial). Change from one channel to the next, on a any day and
> > enjoy news analysis, debates, interviews, etc., or sports from the
> > continent, to music and culture etc.
> >
> > Yes, I do agree that a United African is a dream, a dream limited only
> by
> > the tameness of one's imagination. It's a dream that has lived long and
> > the
> > torch has been carried on from one generation to the next since the
> first
> > pan-African Congress was held in 1919, and though the flame may
> > have flickered from time to time, it has never died.
> >
> > What Tajudeen and many other Africans sympathetic to the idea of a
> united
> > Africa are doing is enlightening and informing about the idea,
> presenting
> > its pros and cons and campaigning and arguing that the pros far outweigh
> > the
> > cons and the sooner we embark upon it the better for the people of
> Africa.
> >
> > I am sure you are aware of the fact that the Pan-African movement has
> long
> > been divided into two main camps; one holds the view that a United
> Africa
> > must not include the Arab/Maghreb north, and another that considers this
> > position ridiculous. These two camps practically consist of mere schools
> > of
> > thought though and how far up the political hierarchy their positions
> are
> > shared is difficult to say.
> >
> > Much has changed during the pass fifty years and there have been lessons
> > learnt. In 1963 many African leaders shied away from Nkrumah's call for
> > unification and the consequences have been grave. His prophesy, when he
> > veered from his prepared speech in Addis in 1963, pointing at African
> > leaders in turn and warning them of how, if they fail to unite, each of
> > their small counries will be isolated, exploited, their leaders
> > overthrown,
> > etc., has come to pass. It is a lesson learnt the hard way but
> nonetheless
> > learnt. Is Africa better off today than it was in 1963? Why?...
> >
> > I hate to delude myself though and however much of a dreamer I may be, I
> > do
> > not expect the leaders gathered in Accra to sign a document of
> unification
> > before leaving for their respective kingdoms. A grassroots movement,
> more
> > intensive dissemination of information and a gradual elimination of
> > certain
> > restrictions, like cross-border travel/trade, the institution of a
> common
> > currency, etc., is needed so as to convince ordinary people of the
> > practical
> > benefits and that it is all for the better.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kabir.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/29/07, ABDOUKARIM SANNEH wrote:
> > >
> > > Kabirr
> > > Once again thanks for your interesting forwards. It may notice that it
> > > cross into my political thinking that devorce from such postings. Pan
> > > African is an utopian dream and I don't know whether with its
> socialist
> > > school of thoughs is the solution to our continent's predicament. I
> know
> > > with this world of globalisation small nation state are really
> > marginalise
> > > in global economy with market force. Africa as a continent must be
> unite
> > as
> > > one country. I really respect the views of Tajudeen Abdul Raheem a
> great
> > > expert of Pan Africanist. I will defer with him on the socialist
> vision.
> > I
> > > value liberal democracy with both right and left wing perspective but
> > > dragging us toward scientific socialism will remote the dream of
> > continental
> > > unification. The only way forward to unite Africa is putting in place
> > > functional democracy, respect liberal values, human rights and rule of
> > law,
> > > grass roots development etc. We have seen Pan Africanist leaders
> > > metamorphosis into dictators and when is
> > > the next Uhuru! You critical suggestion to the issue is welcome.
> > > Best Regards!
> > > Abdoukarim
> > >
> > > Kabir Njaay wrote:
> > > Pan-African Postcard
> > >
> > > UNION GOVERNMENT OF AFRICA: IT'S NOW OR NEVER
> > > Tajudeen Abdul Raheem
> > >
> > > July 1-3 African Heads of state and governments will be assembling in
> > > Accra for the 9th ordinary session of the African Union. There is
> > > only one item on the agenda: the formation of a government for union
> > > of Africa, writes Tajudeen Abdul Raheem.
> > >
> > >
> > > The official title says this is a Grand Debate on a United States of
> > > Africa. This is unfortunate because even those of us enthusiastic
> > > about the unity of Africa would wish that the leaders are a bit more
> > > creative than just wanting to create another USA. Given what one USA
> > > is doing to the world and its previous record it would be a
> > > disservice to humanity to want to inflict another USA on the world.
> > >
> > > Our values is certainly made of better ethics and love for humanity
> > > and affirmation of life with dignity than to be copying the United
> > > state of America whose unity is based on genocide against indigenous
> > > Indians, slavery of people of African origin and continuing plunder
> > > of the rest of the world.
> > >
> > > The agenda has pitched leaders against leaders and different sectors
> > > of our informed and ill- informed publics against one another. But
> > > basically there are two broad positions neither of which disagrees
> > > about the need for Africa to unite. So if there is no disagreement
> > > about the goal what is the debate about?
> > >
> > > Calling it a Grand Debate about USA is a misnomer and misleading
> > > characterization that has diverted people's attention from the
> > > proposal on the table and invited acrimonious 'debates' about form
> > > instead of content.
> > >
> > > So delegitimised are many governments on this continent, in spite of
> > > the fact that an overwhelming majority are now 'elected' that when
> > > Africans hear United States of Africa or an African Union government
> > > they run. They instinctively think that what is being said is a
> > > transferring of the tyrannical, insensitive anti-people state and
> > > government that many of us have experienced and in some cases
> > > continue to suffer, even in the guise of democracy, to a continental
> > > level. What a disaster that would be! However it is a baseless fear.
> > >
> > > Even if the leaders all voted for a Union government in Accra it does
> > > not mean that it will be formed immediately and all these states as
> > > we know them will disappear and many of the presidents may return as
> > > ministers or district commissioners or be consigned to the dust bin
> > > where they belong. Were this possible I am not sure many Africans
> > > will mourn their passing since quite a number of them already
> > > willingly act as agents of imperialism and shop keepers for foreign
> > > interests against their peoples anyway!
> > >
> > > From the inception of Pan Africanism by Africans in the Diaspora in
> > > the latter years of the 19 th century but gaining more prominence and
> > > political legitimacy in the first half of the 20th century through
> > > the first five Pan African Congresses (1900 -1945, all held outside
> > > Africa) and subsequently brought home to Africa (through the All
> > > African people's conferences of 1958, and much later the 6th and 7th
> > > Pan African Congresses held in Africa in Dar 1974 and 1994, Kampala)

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