Hello Joe,
I couldn't disagree with your contribution due to two points you stated in
your subscribtion, firstly I share the believe that religious discussions of
such nature should be left alone, because Faith is such a delicate issue
which can easily offend. I happen to came from a family where it is 51-49
percent muslims and christians, my Dad's elder brother, same Mum is a
Catholic, in my heart I wish that wasn't so.The reason that makes me to
agree with the point of yours is, We as muslims are warn not to engage in
this kind of discussion, because in any discussion one needs result, which
is very hard to achieve in religious topics, there is a Verse which says
"LAKUM DEENE KUM WA LIYA DEEN", Which means follow what you believe and I
will follow mine, which also confirm the second point which prompt me to
reply to your subscribtion.
Furthermore, I owed this to myself and to mankind to put this point to you
and to others whether you a muslim or not, Islam is not about waiting for
the unevitable to happen to learn about your faith in the hereafter or the
so called other side,Islam is about discovering that other side here,your
creator, yourself, ABOVE ALL MUHAMMAD AND ALL THAT IS CREATED THROUGH HIM.
This will not be an imagination, it will be physical not in the word but you
will live it and would see and do things differenetly thats the time I will
have a proper dialogue with evidence. The beauty about Islam is personal not
collective, every individual should walk it alone to ALLLAH, though with
guidance from above. No one will take care for any sins you may have done
during your journey back to your Lord, what ever you do whether good or bad
you take with you.
Finally all that I said about disbelievers is from the Holy Quran, which I
believe to be the word of ALLAH and I am happy to make it mine and I have
evidence of its thruthfulness and anyone may seek for the truth, its there
for everyone to discover.I have a very good relationship with non
muslims,half of my family are not muslims,most of my friends are of another
faith, even Hindus and shikh's, people that I know over the years, like you
at school but all I ever wanted is uniformity, which may seem abnormal if it
ever happen. The result of my contribution to this topic was to clarify but
not to force the issue and I still hope that it appeal to the wider
subscribers.
There is nothing the ALMIGHTY cannot make possible, I am praying to him to
sit in judgement over this issue, if HE is the truth, may he
bless you with wisdom and used you as medium to continue HIS good work,and
that be serve as HIS manifestation of his blessing to us all. AMEN.
>From: Joe Sambou <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:42:58 +0000
>
>Greetings all, I wanted to abstain from contributing due to reasons I
>explained earlier, however, I cannot resist the urge to jump in this debate
>that I think serves to rip the fabric that bound us as Africans in general
>and Gambians in particular. What happens to our extended family system?
>Who among us has relatives/friends that are just Muslims? How many people
>among us were raised by relatives that do not share the same religion with
>us? This is what we know as Africans. Since when do we see each other as
>believers or non-believers? That I am a non-believer in someone's eyes, so
>what? That all non-believers will go to hell in someone's eyes, I say, so
>what? Who amongst us has gone anywhere to know what's on the other side,
>if there is even another side? Remember others can bring their books and
>preach infinitum just like its going on now with some of us. When that
>happens, we gain nothing but extenuate the superficial divisions we create
>in our minds. When it comes to matters of religion, folks should take care
>of their's and let others do the same, thus the separation between
>Church/Mosque and State, because of the Holier Than Thou Syndrome that can
>poison our minds. A lot of what's talked about here has to deal with
>other's cultural values. I will be damned if I shall adopt someone else's
>cultural values over mine, especially when it can separate brothers or
>sisters apart. The same right you have to prop your belief system as
>numero
>uno, rests with myself and others too. To those who believe that all
>non-believers will sizzle many fold, I say to you, pray for your ancestors,
>for they were mainly "Tchedors". That is the beauty of The Gambia - the
>cross cultural and religious exchanges, Nanmburu, Yapi Haar, Watch Night,
>Gaamo, Talabone, Kitim, etc. Also, the reason why we have the "Kaal
>System"
>- to diffuse the tension and extenuate the positive among our diverse
>peoples. Be an extremist (whatever that means), but what we have going for
>us none can dismantle. Some of you sound as if the rest of humanity is
>begging to eat, befriend, or relate to you. Don't eat my food, visit me,
>speak to me, or what have you, because I am a non-believer, and see if I
>will loose sleep over that. To me your move will translate as less
>headache
>for me and more time to spend with the moderate and tolerant many. Thank
>God the rest of humaninity is moving on. What religion will look donw on a
>people that are among the most peace loving on this earth. Your views
>about
>coexistance will have an audience in the Middle East, but not in Sub-Sahara
>Africa. If Islam stands for tolerance, who are you to highlight otherwise?
>
>With all the problems our nation is enduring, why on earth would some of us
>come here to bombard us with unnecessary talk about believers and
>non-believers. While we sit here and sow the seed of discord, some of your
>friends and relatives are being fed, housed, and have life long friendships
>with those you term as believers and non-believers alike. So, go on with
>the preaching and see if the overwhelming majority of our peoples give a
>hoot how you view them. This is rediculous.
>
>Chi Jaama
>
>Joe Sambou
>
>
>>From: koto Faal <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:45:13 +0000
>>
>>To all interested subscribers in this ongoing debate about
>>disbelievers,people of the book, and the polytheist in the Sura Al
>>bayinatu
>>where references are made concerning the above mentioned groups, the Quran
>>as we know it needs a very careful translation of both the text and
>>commentaries, both can be misleading depending on the Individual
>>researching
>>and the source of the text.These groups in question has been talk about
>>several times in different chapters in the Holy Quran but at all times for
>>different reason.In this particular instances this sura was serve as an
>>ultimatum to all non muslims and warning to them of the consequencies they
>>faced in the hereafter but this doesn't go to the extend of attacking
>>their
>>moral behavior in society cause their are good people among them, they do
>>good things for society but that is not what ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY wants from
>>them,THE AHSHADA IS THE MAIN PROBLEM.One should really try and return to
>>the
>>beginning of all things (THE SOURCE) to really understand the problems of
>>RELIGIOUS FAITHS. We have learned in the Hadith,THE HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD
>>(Pbuh) saying to his followers that I am going to send you to ABBYSINNIA,
>>present day Ethopia to a Christian King to apply for Assylum,He is a king
>>that do no wrong to his people, he is a man of great justice, HE knew then
>>morality was not an issue but Submission to ALLAH'S WILL,will always be
>>the
>>biggest pitfall along the way back to ALLAh's Eternal Bliss.The text of
>>the
>>above sura is not my word nor the word of any human being, our duty is to
>>try and recites it or translate it atleast near it is written, this
>>particular verse says "Inna lasinna kafaru min akhlil kitabi wal
>>moushrikinna fe narre jahanam hali deena fe ha awla eka hum sharul
>>bariyati"
>>(meaning to you the disbelievers and the people WE gave books ie
>>christians
>>and jews and the polytheist are all going jahanam,which is the literal
>>meaning but it goes beyond this,why several reason but the principal one
>>is
>>the AHSHADA,where you submit to ALLAH'S Will and Proclaim and comfirm that
>>Muhammad is a Prophet and Messenger of ALLAH(SWT),they refute that which
>>brought us to the precedent shaitan set long ago when he was asked to
>>prostrate for Adam, If we know why he was detrone then we will not be
>>having
>>this conversation on line, but it is the same principles or Judgement that
>>will be befall anyone who has the remoteness of chances without not taking
>>this Oath, even the law of this earth ask for Oath e.g President of the
>>United States, if you are not sworn in , you won't take Office and you
>>think
>>if you don't take with ALLAH (swt) you will take Office, everything you
>>see
>>here is a manifestation of ALLAH'S Kingdom.This subscribtion is in
>>response
>>to all those people whom needed clarification whether the people of the
>>book
>>are referred to in this particular sura especially modou camara whose
>>response to sister jabo contribution. These people choosed not to believe
>>the Prophet (Pbuh)and thus condemned themselves to Jahanam. I am very
>>sorry
>>if this offended anyone I am just trying to help with the text of the Holy
>>Quran, I hope this contribution will help a long way to our enlightenment
>>of
>>the Quran and its commentaries. May ALLAH forgive me for any misleadings
>>this contribution may cause.I am praying to ALLAH the ALMIGHTY to bestowed
>>upon us all Wisdom and Guidance. Rabbana atayna fe dunya hasanatan wa fil
>>ahkira hasanatan wakhina hasabana, subhana rabihesati amayasifun wa salamu
>>alal murrsalin walhamdu lila AMEN.
>>>From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:38:25 +0100
>>>
>>>On 7 Jan 2002, at 23:42, Jabou Joh wrote:
>>>
>>> > When people have forwarded anything that says non-muslims are non
>>>believers, it
>>> > is not something that was coined deliberately to make anyone feel bad.
>>>It is the
>>> > exact words that the Qur'an uses.
>>>
>>>Sister Jabou,
>>>The Quran is referring to some people as "The people of the book" (Jews)
>>>and
>>>"The Christians". Are these people also in the above category?
>>>
>>>I think the quran differentiates "Kafirun" from The People of the book
>>>and
>>>the
>>>Christians. The God that Muslims believe is the same God that the Jews
>>>and
>>>christians believe in.
>>>
>>>
>>>regards,
>>>Momodou Camara
>>>
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