Suntou who is this gentlewoman you keep sharing with us??? Gentle has
left Olfactor years ago. He is now crouchingtiger. Oh BTW Tiger will be
back for the Masters at Augusta National. i so look forward to that. I
have been practicing my putting over the year and my coach Tiger will
help improve that some more. Suntou you're too nice to Olfactor. Might
you now be an Elizabethan like my friend Hamjatta???? Where's that cat
anyway? How's he doing???
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, Mar 23, 2010 6:16 am
Subject: Re: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT
FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
Haruna, your sense of humour has lighten up this place. I could not
stop laughing aloud. It is good for our soul. I will be requesting old
copies of the economist magazine from the gentleman, I will cancel my
own subscription.
Haruna, in this day and age, when both academic materials and proper
journals can be securely access online, when books are now in portable
computerise (digital form), i wonder why the gentleman is keen to let
us know that he receives the hard copy of the economist? I wonder. Talk
about refusing to march ahead with time.
Good news for the Gunners: JAY-Z want to invest in the club, Spike Lee
is our big fan as well.
Haruna, I also commend your analysis of the actual case in question,
Justice Njie. As you opined, they knew full well Yahya will never allow
them to do their jobs independently, yet they agree to take the
positions, hence she should face the music.
The accusations are that of financial misappropriate. I also learnt
that, the Nigerians has taken over our legal profession, thanks to the
sack Justice Secretary.
The gentleman's anger is as a result months of disheartening comments
he couldn't bear coming from my end. He has already made up his mind to
insult me, emptying his heart's delight on me. I am happy that, he is
relieve of his burden.
Why get inflamed over Rwanda whilst our stakes are the Gambia. And why
be bothered about what I do with my party of choice? It is fascinating.
It is reported that, Kegame's own government has in it genocidal
maniacs who still boast about their Tutsiness, let him clean up those
sick folks before branding others 'divisionist'. Room for improvement.
The gentleman's quest to get personal is understandable. if it helps
him have a good enough sleep, it is fine by me. Say all you like
against Suntou, i am sure your friends will tap your shoulder for it,
as for me, i will enjoy my green tea and think of another subject. My
old advise is that, stop being rude, calm down and remember that,
people will be disappointed in you for using foul language.
Suntou
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:33 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Ok Olfactor. So you say Suntou changed the topic first. And you went
right along with the changed topic. You see what I mean about you
needing help Olfactor?
I'm just kidding men. Let's chuck this one to a comedy of errors
Olfactor. I promise I got loads of other more significant stuff for
you. Please. I don't know why you're always on edge. I thought that was
Giuseppe, but I swear you're worse than my friend Giuseppe. But for his
unnecessary disdain for Hon. Hamat, theguy is a wonderful fellow. "If
you want to hide from Hamat go to Gambia". Men you guys are experts at
low blows. Even Evian can't top that. What?????
WHy are you bringing Giuseppe into this discussion. I thought he were
your friend????? Olfactor you really need help.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:21 pm
Subject: Re: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT
FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
Haruiner,
Low blows will not do! Varify yours first. Didn't your side kick
bring in Kagame into the discussion.
Mboge
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Ehhh Olfactor,
I am not your companion. Don't tell me someone changed our discussion
when you were the veritable detractor. And don't tell me you're a man
of your own when we are trying to discern if you're a man first. I am
not your companion. And are you a Pan-African???
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT
FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
Haruiner,
As usual, you've woken up and dittoing has began. Your stupid friend
moonlighting as the political analyst changed a strictly legal
discussion to comparing apples and oranges. There is nothing
comparable between Kagame and a rogue like Jammeh.
Tell me about what jungle justice i am running away and what havoc did
i participate in to warrant my coming to live in the west. Persona
delinquencies and inadequacies, what load of BS
I am a man of my own and I am not seeking yours or anyones approval
for anything. Talk of trashy and nonesensical self-delusional
importance.
Mboge
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Suntou,
Thank you for your common sense. The problem with some of these folk is
that they participated in the wrecking of Africa before they fled
jungle justice or they had buyer's remorse once they settled in their
new western homes. And they blame their personal delinquencies and
inadequacies on the west. I say they brush their teeth before they
speak to me about Africa or Africans. How you change a conversation
about law and jurisprudence to a defense of kagame is beyond me.
kagame's person or character was not in question......however you feel
about the man. Extradition requests are between Judicial branches and
nations. Not between Presidents or other idiots.
Thank you again for your marked sobrieties Suntou.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 6:17 am
Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case -
PRECEDENT FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
The gentle man who wishes to make some us look like uncaring Africans,
hence not qualify in advocating anything African should take a good at
himself and his place of domicile. Many a times we read and hear our
Pan-Africanist brothers resident in Europe and America for decades
lecturing us about Euro-American this and that on Africans.. How
self-serving these brothers are.
If you wish to take the moral high ground on Africa, then do the decent
thing and parachute to the West, East, South or Central Africa, then
try screaming from the rooftop there, hopefully people will pay
attention to the nonsensical out pouring of cheap emotion. Some of this
So call Pan-Africanist hardly ever venture into Africa, yet they feel
singing Pan-Africa enough in making words relevant, give us a break.
The economist Magazine has nothing to lose or gain in the articles some
of its commentators write about Africa. Can we for once see things in
their right context instead fancying around hanging onto our own
baggage of partisan politics. If anyone is educated in the west, you
must without a question read books, be lectured by western professors
and enjoy the western way of live. What moral ground do you have to see
others as less of an African than you are? Below is the Economist
Magazine's article on Kegame and Rwanda. In fact the article
acknowledge the level of financial discipline the government of Kegame
is instituting, yet the other facts cannot be left unspoken about
because one is doing something’s right and other major wrongs. We
should delineate cheap emotion from serious issues
http://www.economist.com/world/middle-east/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15622375
Progress and repression in Rwanda
Divisionists beware
President Paul Kagame has improved people’s lives at the expense of
freedom
Mar 4th 2010 | NAIROBI | From The Economist print edition
Kagame, progressive and repressive
THE government of Rwanda is doing a lot of things right. It is pretty
open in its handling of aid money. Most foreign governments and
charities are so impressed by its detailed plans and apparent lack of
corruption that they are funnelling more of their aid directly through
Rwanda’s government. President Paul Kagame says he expects direct
budget support to rise by a quarter this year, to $519m.
The country has recovered valiantly from its year zero in 1994, when
800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered. Its centralised
state is leading the way in economic and technological reform in the
region. It is improving the country’s infrastructure, education and
farming, and seeks to preserve its ecology. It pushes equality for
women, who comprise half the government and parliament.
On the diplomatic front, Mr Kagame has been equally successful. He has
sent troops to help keep the peace in Sudan’s Darfur province and
elsewhere. He has stood up to mighty France, blaming it, as the
region’s then most influential Western power, for failing to prevent
the genocide. And last month the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy,
came to Rwanda and offered something close to an apology. France, he
said, had committed “grave errors of judgment” before, during, and
after the genocide. Questions linger about the role of French special
forces during the killing, as well as the fate of Hutus living in
France whom Rwanda wants extradited on suspicion of involvement in the
genocide.
France, for its part, has not dropped charges against some members of
Mr Kagame’s government who are alleged to have ordered the shooting
down of a French aircraft carrying Rwanda’s then president, Juvénal
Habyarimana, a Hutu; that action triggered the genocide. Yet both
countries now appear more at ease with each other. Days after Mr
Sarkozy’s visit, Mr Habyarimana’s widow, Agathe, was arrested near
Paris (and then freed on bail) for questioning over her alleged role in
the genocide. French businessmen came in Mr Sarkozy’s slipstream,
eyeing minerals and timber in neighbouring Congo, for which Rwanda is a
conduit. “There is no doubt this is a reconciliation,” says a Rwandan
government figure.
Yet awkward question-marks hang over Mr Kagame and his ruling Rwandan
Patriotic Front. The president’s detractors say his party has not owned
up to killing thousands of civilians immediately after the genocide or
to responsibility for causing much bloodshed in Congo, which it invaded
in order to hunt down the génocidaires who had fled there. The
Congolese government, it may be noted, has co-operated with the
Rwandans in their more recent incursions into Congo.
Mr Kagame and his government are stifling political and press freedom
in advance of a presidential election due in August. He is almost
certain to win but evidently he is determined to secure a big majority
to implement his “one Rwanda” policies. Opposition parties have been
forbidden to “use words or facts that defame other politicians”. In
practice, the government can label any criticism against it as
“divisionism”, which entitles it to lock up the offenders. Members of
the opposition say they are spied on and bullied.
It is unclear whether the government will let the Democratic Green
Party, a feisty new opposition group, be registered. If not, the Greens
say they will back another lot, the Socialist Party-Imberakuri, which
should be able to run a presidential candidate. The head of a third
opposition party, the United Democratic Forces-Inkingi, Victoire
Ingabire, says she has been vilified since returning from exile in
January. The government, she says, has encouraged people to assault
her, accusing her of being a génocidaire. This week a former military
intelligence chief, Kayumba Nyamwasa, who was reported to have joined
the Greens, fled Rwanda and is said to be claiming asylum in South
Africa. The government says he is wanted on criminal charges—presumably
divisionism.
End.
Going back to our own dictators corridors, What is it that his
supporter are fuming against us about? They are saying, the man is a
dictator of development and that he is fighting against corruption. He
has given women more power and rights. His Vice-President is a woman.
At some point in his government, there were more women in his
government as Ministers than the previous administration. All that the
gentleman is promoting Kegame for, Yahya Jammeh was once hail with
those same things.
Should there be any reason for the cubing of civil rights and plurality
of views?
Is Kegame himself innocent of pumping tribal issues in politics? In
fact, Kegame's men in the army including the high ranking female
officer play the card more than many others. Check their own Google
images Mr Gentleman. I have seen images of the Rwandan army's latest
incursion of Congo, the close senior officers bragging about their
prejudicial influences. These things aren’t as simple as the gentleman
is making it out to be.
Nothing should compromise tolerant co-existence, and the opposition
views is a key part to ensuring the population is represented at all
levels. Kegame's propaganda alone shouldn't be listened to at the
expense of others. He should be commended for lots of things, but he
also needs to understand that framing words against his opponent is not
healthy for the future stability of the country. Some of us are less of
a Pan-African, however, we know the working of a genuine democracy.
Advocates of Europeanism live in Europe. let our Pan-African folks
migrate to Africa, instead of crying wolf in western towns and cities.
Let not your bias of folks make you blind to their views. Stop been
haste over public issues. Take a deep breath and read the material
before jumping to conclusion.
LJ, thanks for your sober and intelligent analysis always. Long may we
have many non-partisan like you. Speaking the facts regardless of who
it come from. Saddly, folks here seems to look at names, party
afilliation, some ignoble little gangs before saying anything
tangible. You have shown to be above such petty mantra.
Suntou
Suntou
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Lamin Darbo
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Mboge
You are absolutely right that "Four men accused of taking part in the
1994 Rwandan genocide win their High Court battle against
extradition" was "strictly premised on the significance of the Legal
precedence it sets for 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping
persecution". Specifically, I was thinking about Justice Safiatou Njie
(Justice Njie) and whether The Gambia Government is likely to succeed
in having her extradited by the UK.
Although her alleged crimes are not political, the whole mechanism of
Gambian justice is heavily entangled in political calculations. She is
not likely to get a fair trial, and as a requirement of Article 6 of
the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), now statutorily
incorporated into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA 1998), her
chance of eluding extradition is looking good.
Even as the Rwandan decision is a brilliant exemplification of the rule
of law, I have to agree with you that the High Court decision was a
difficult one on moral grounds. I am unsure why Rwanda did not seek
their extradition for onward delivery to the International Criminal
Tribunal Rwanda (ICTR), based in the Tanzanian city of Arusha.
For Rwanda, it should not matter where these alleged criminals are
prosecuted. The evidence is suggestive of some involvement by all four
in the '94 genocide. In that case, common sense would dictate that they
be prosecuted for their alleged crimes, and where found legally
culpable, adequately punished.
Undoubtedly, the political arm of government was keen to have them
extradited, but the Judiciary blocked that wish on the explicit command
of both European, and UK law.
Stated differently, the High Court probably hated the outcome, but
there was a clear obligation to implement the law as it is. You are
right that under other circumstances, these laws can work quite well
for "genuine asylum seekers". This particular decision was nevertheless
quite agonising.
As to Kagame, I defer to your expertise on the man, and his vision.
What he must do, and this sooner than he may prefer, is to create an
environment that allows his vision to incrementally mature even as he
himself no longer leads Rwanda. No one person can fully develop a
country, and in my view, this means that every African leader, and,
or, ruler, must come to terms with his/her own mortality. Only then
will a mighty continent actualise its great potential by making use of
the major part of the talent at its disposal.
Many thanks for a fine response, and advocacy.
Do you think the Gambia's extradition request regarding Justice Njie
should succeed?
Regards
LJDarbo
--- On Sun, 21/3/10, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case -
PRECEDENT FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 21 March, 2010, 17:38
LJD,
I guess your sharing the judgement on the Rwandans by the High Court of
the UK was strictly premised on the significance of the Legal
precedence it sets for 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping
persecution. I hope it is not presumptuous of me that you had in mind
the Gambian female judicial employee currently in the UK apparently
running away from Gambian justice a la Jammeh when you
shared the ruling. I assume that it is no rocket science that this
ruling will provide protection for the corrupt criminals, genocidaires
and their apologists from being brought to justice where it matters ie
where their alleged crimes were committed.
It seems the so-called High Court Judges are more concerned with the
human rights of vile genocidaires than those genuine asylum seekers
whose fear of being killed and tortured in their homeland is
consistently ignored and questioned and in some instances ridiculed by
Western media pandering to the right-wing politics of the "other"
coming to take our jobs and scrounging on our generous welfare
systems. Im no lawyer but i hope this ruling also can be useful to
genuine asylum seekers.
Reading a response to the article you shared by our
"descerner extraordinaire on this forum" comparing our criminal outfit
headed by a deranged buffoon in the person of SHEPAD Jammeh gave
me zits as well as being squirmish for a while.
The realities of Gambia and Rwanda are markedly different. Kagame and
Jammeh are poles apart. Kagame is a smart and patriotic leader, a
visionary engaged in healing a traumatized people, one fighting a good
fight in ushering in a new nation based on functioning
institutions. The howling on this divisionism by the Economist is in my
view an irrelevant unworthy distraction. Kagame should take no advise
or lecturing from a rabidly anti-African magazine that once ran a
feature cover story by Richard Dowden on Africa: The Hopeless
Continent. It may be true that many an African country is marred by
hunger, conflict and strife yet i have no doubt that if anything the
African peoples are mostly hopeful and optimistic about the future.
This may be sometimes wrongly attributed to fatalism.
Of course there still remains a lot to be done in terms of democracy
and human rights in Rwanda but one must acknowledge the giant strides
already achieved in relation to these ideals. It is work in
progress that is being managed very well under extremely difficult
circumstances. Rwanda under Kagame boast one of the most enlightened
gender equality legislatures in the world. And this goes beyond just
symbolic balancing of the sexes in terms of representation (given that
33% of the Rwandan Parliament is female) in politics. Women compete
and participate in all sectors of Rwanda society. There is evidence of
substantive and particapatory democracy in everyday life of the
ordinary Rwandan. The economy in Rwanda is booming, civil society is
being built and their advocacy left, right and centre permeates in and
at all levels of society. Under Kagame's Rwanda a state by all
standards that failed, has emerged way ahead of many African
countries in terms of health care access to its denizens. There is
national health insurance for virtually all Rwandans. With Rwanda now
on the right path to development and substantive participatory
democracy i join the hoard of admirers wishing the Kagame juggernaut to
keep steaming ahead. I do also hope that the juggernaut also destroys
and annihilate all the negative forces trying to block it especially
those coated in ethnicity. Ethnicity is important but not to the
detriment of building a prosperous Rwandan nation that concerns herself
with providing peace, prosperity and progress to its people.
There exists a genuine concern by those trying to deny the horrid
genocide that took place in 1994. Politicians such as Victoire Ingabire
Umuhoza trying to play on ethnic sentiments must be reigned in. This
does not mean that people should be denied the right to associate
with the ethnic skirt they want to wear as long as it is not to villify
or create schisms between and among their brethren and sisters.
Afterall the Tutsi and Hutu are from the same family of Bantu-speaking
peoples. But if not for a sad historical constructionism perpetrated
by colonialists based on banal concepts such as
the Hamitic Hypothesis , the Tutsi-Hutu dichotomous relationship might
have been avoided. I shall not suffer the esteem lot of this forum on
the nitty-gritty of this racist hypothesis which helped in the pogroms
of the Tutusis in 1959 and the genocide of 1994.
We have seen the shenanigans of France and some other northern
governments trying to stifle the progress and development of Rwanda
since the RPF came into power. I will have Kagame any day as my leader
compared to the rogues we have splattered across our wounded continent
irresponsibly abusing the noble ideals of democracy and human rights.
Best,
Mboge
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:56 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
LJ, reading the economies Magazine edition of last week, i can see
similar tactics in the arena of suppression of opposition views in
Rwanda to that our own mad man. Kegame's government invented a
dangerous term 'divisionist'. This term is label against opponents of
the government with the country's sad past. The genocidal past was
trigger by tribal sentiment, hence the divisionist concept.
It is interesting how our guys invent this sinister strategies to
suppress alternative views. Key members of the opposition are regularly
accused of being guilty of genocide, a tack one is unable to free
himself from.
Suntou
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Lamin Darbo
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
--- On Fri, 19/3/10, LJD <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: LJD <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 19 March, 2010, 0:08
LJD saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
should see it.
** Rwanda accused win UK court case **
Four men accused of taking part in the 1994 Rwandan genocide win their
High Court battle against extradition
< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/uk/7989534.stm >
** BBC Daily E-mail **
Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all
in one daily e-mail
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