what a wonderful reply haruna. 

Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  Hello Suntou Touray, How are you? I hope good.

From some of our conversations I have learned that you and I could be 
related through my uncle Sidia and the Tourays of Sutukoba, Sutukonding, and Jah 
Kunda. I wish to declare now that I wish to disown you as a member of my 
mbaringkunda. I still desire to have the other Tourays as my uncles. But I must 
sever relation with you.

I know that you are mentally unstable now and I will train on your 
rehabilitation were that possible. I will write slowly and I will use primary words to 
minimize mal-comprehension. I will use your boat load of shit here to assist 
you.

"My view on the two great concepts. read along." Suntou.

I am pleased you admit that Religion and Democracy are great concepts. Why 
you feel you should mention the two in the same breath escapes me. You are 
better advised to compare Religions. Or to compare administrative ideals. 
Religion and Democracy are antitheses of each other. They are mutually exclusive. 
Democracy solves the problems of disparate religion.

"hundreds of people sacrifice time and money for both concepts to improve 
the physical and spritutal needs of man."

Sacrifice of time and money is REQUIRED in Religions. For whatever reason.
Sacrifice of time and money is VOLUNTARY in Democracy. For whatever reason.

"from missionary activities to political activist some get killed along both 
ways." Suntou.
Yes. And they are killed by idiots and lunatics like you.

"isn't it time humanity realise both ideas and concepts are here to stay." 
Suntou.
As long as we have idiots, both concepts are here to stay.

"they cannot do without each other." Suntou.

They can exist without each other. In fact each flourishes without the other.

"we are all religious in some way." Suntou.

We are all clueless about divinity and creation to one extent or the other. 
We are not all religious neither do we all need to be religious for any 
reason. Religion is the quest to know and or find God were that your pursuit.

"and we are all political in some others ways." Suntou.

What does being political have to do with 
democracy???????????????????????????????????????

"it is just my humble thoughts." Suntou.

They are not humble. They are the harbinger of intolerance and sectarianism.

"THE RELIGIOUS PHOBIA"
THE PHOBIA OF IDIOTS, NOT RELIGION"

"It has become part of the culture of intellectuals and academics and those 
aspiring for status on that line to have deep phobia for religion." Suntou.

It has become part of the culture of intellectuals and academics and those 
aspiring to harmonious life to be wary of intolerant and gullible idiots.

"Students of knowledge and propagators of religion often encounter these 
intellectuals usually with very strong condemnation for religious people." 
Suntou.

Students of knowledge encounter these intolerant lunatics usually driven by 
dishonest and misplaced zealotry. Students of knowledge aspire to be 
intellectuals and academics. That is why they are students of knowledge in the first 
place. And they seek knowledge in good religion and harmonious living both.

"One wonders what the problem of all this phobia for religion is about?" 
Suntou.

The mentally unstable like you create problems of phobia for religion where 
none exists.

"It seems that these haters of religion need to look within themselves and 
to analyse what is making them have the anti-religion line of The religious 
phobia thinking." Suntou.

Lunatics like you belong in Campama. They create hate and animus among 
people of different religions.

"They aim to let us talk in language devoid of any religious sentiment, yet 
they will not hesitate to propagate the noble and all-perfect idea of 
democracy." Suntou.

The sober intellectuals and academics encourage even sufism, the ultimate 
indulgence in religion. What they do not encourage is the masquerade of 
lunatics like you who will likely persecute folk of other religions when given the 
opportunity. They do not propagate Democracy. They share democracy. Democracy 
is only noble to the beholder of democracy. Democracy is NOT an ALL-PERFECT 
IDEA.

"They believe that democracy, can work without any religious side to it." 
Suntou.

You are right. Democracy flourishes when it is neutral as to religion as 
long as there are varied religions. Even lunatics have their moments of 
revelations. The Moon-sighter for Ramadan.

"I doubt that concept very much." Suntou.

Very well. But what Suntou doubts or appreciates is not significant to his 
fellow human.

"I believe that the greatest achievement man can have is his/her salvation 
from hell." Suntou.

Exactly. And to figure out how to attain salvation from hellfire and 
brimstone, man embarks on a journey of STUDENT OF KNOWLEDGE.

"What does democracy tell us concerning how to achieve salvation?" Suntou.

Democracy is not interested in your salvation. You must find solace in your 
chosen religion for that.

"How many great proponents of democracy left us in this beautiful world?" 
Suntou.

What an idiot? How many pious and religious idiots left us in this beautiful 
world??? Who is trained on material and worldly beauty I may ask? All honest 
humans please raise your hands. Not you Suntou.

"Some of them even get killed by their opponents." Suntou.

Pakistan. Rwanda, Herzegovina, Shrebrenitza, Bristol, Watts, Lappland, 
Palestine, Kenya, South Africa, Gambia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Ogaden, Jijiga, 
Eritrea, Mauritania, Egypt.

"People of religion hardly have any problem with democracy and secular 
ways." Suntou.

Why would they? And democracy consolidates rights to religions and rights to 
lunacy.

"It is the so-called advocates of democracy who can't accept others." Suntou.

I imagine you understand that those people are not really trained on 
democracy otherwise you would not call them "so-called advocates". And you are a 
so-called propagator of Islam".

"Consider the countless wars on others just for them to accept democracy." 
Suntou.

You lied here. Name one war whose purpose was to force democracy on others. 
I vill be vaiting.

"Why is force always been part of democracy?" Suntou.

You lied again. Force is anathema to democracy. Democracy aims to preclude 
force and forcible persuasion.

"I also wonder why the biggest democratic countries have unlimited fire 
power that can obliterate rest of the animal kingdom." Suntou.

Name the your biggest democratic countries. You are trained on lies Suntou. 
Think! Think for God's sakes.

"These fire powers are usually in the hands of the defenders of the now 
divine idea democracy." Suntou.

Democracy is a divine idea to the extent God/Allah wishes his/her children 
to live in harmony on earth before they answer to him/her. If you believe in 
Allah, you will understand that fire power is not terribly significant. Fire 
power is for lunatics and idiots among us when rehabilitation and natural 
culling misses them.

"They still tell us that religion is the cause of human rights violation and 
abject backwardness." Suntou.

NO. Idiots and lunatics in religion are the cause of intolerance, 
decrepitude, malaise, and voluntary enslavement.

"Consider some simple questions:" Suntou.
OK. Shoot! No, NOT WITH A GUN YOU IDIOT.

"Was religion responsible for the genocide or holocaust of the Jews?".
NO. It was ethnic intolerance that was responsible for that.

"and genocide in Rwanda and Burundi?" Suntou.

No. It was ethnic intolerance and complex d'inferiorite that were 
responsible for that. Poverty of soul that is.

"Of the wars on Iraq how much do you blame that on religion? Suntou.

Let's see:
The war between Iraq and Iran was one of Religious intolerance and greed.
The war between Iraq and Kuwait was one of greed and lunacy.
Desert storm was the invasion of Iraq by the US to reverse the latter lunacy.
The current war with between George Bush and Saddam Husein was to avenge the 
threat on the former's father's life, and to dispense with the Lunatic. Oil 
will have been a collateral spoil of war.
Do you see Democracy in any of these? I knew you were clueless. Where 
democracy came in in the first two wars Iraq-Iran and Iraq-Kuwait is that all men 
are created equal with inalienable rights to association for religion and 
industry. For the third war, the concept of "To every action, there is an equal 
and opposite reaction". That could lead to death and carnage.

"Was it not based on the forces of democracy willed on a people whose 
culture and social values differ with democracy in all its facets?" Suntou.

You did not understand or you wanted to lie again as you are pre-disposed. 
Who among these warriors is a force of Democracy? How can you will Democracy 
on anybody? Are you sure you understand what democracy is Suntou?

"Again was it religion that was responsible for the usage of the chemical 
'agent orange' on the Vietnamese people and the Burmese people?" Suntou.

I should think not. That was for greed and empire. But Religious intolerance 
was responsible for the chemical spraying of the Kurds and Iranians. Ethnic 
intolerance and greed were responsible for the Servo-Bosnian ethnic 
cleansing. Religious and ethnic intolerance was responsible for the Darfur genocide 
that is currently in full steam.

"The list can go on and on." Suntou.

I know. Cluelessness knows no bounds.

"But secular fundamentalists don't wish to answer those questions." Suntou.

What is a secular fundamentalist? Or do you just wish to coin an intolerant 
adjective similar to religious fundamentalist? And FYI, religious 
fundamentalist is not necessarily bad. Lunacy and idiotic intolerance is what is bad. 
Neither have anything to do with Democracy.

"mostly they get entangled between corporate interest and promotion of 
democracy." Suntou.

Neither of the above two has anything to do with democracy. Sounds like 
dishonesty and deceit of the clueless lunatics.

"The two are closely intertwined so much that their difference is blurred." 
Suntou.

Blurred to the lunatic intolerant.

"Any comment about what the Almighty says is looked at with disdain and 
apprehension." Suntou.

Which Almighty? Your Almighty? Are you sure you know what even your Almighty 
says to you?

"The struggle between man's interest and God's principle has been going on 
for a long time and that struggle will continue." Suntou.

No. You got it upside down Suntou. I think you mean to say "the struggle for 
man's interest has been going on since time immemorial". And "the struggle 
to understand God's principles has been going on since time immemorial." Man's 
interests and God's principles are not at loggerheads. No where in history 
have you learned that. How can you compete with your maker? What are you 
studying in school again????????????

"The two great ideas concerning love of God and the treatment of fellow 
human beings with respect and love are promoted both by religion and democracy." 
Suntou.

And that is good.

"Where the two differ is on the issue of worship and morality." Suntou.

How so???

"Belief and disbelief is a matter of personal choice for every human being." 
Suntou.

YES.

"God never forces us to believe in him." Suntou.

Very good.

"He endowed us our free will. But he reminds us that the long journey will 
end some day and then we will have no choice but give him our account." Suntou.

Are you prepared to meet him and give him your account then????????????????

"The vital issue that secular democrats highlight concerning religion is the 
different religious sects or groups existing and each group is calling to 
its ways." Suntou.

I guess you present Secular Fundamentalist and Secular Democrat as 
synonymous then. YES. I, as an advocate of democratic life, acknowledge the 
individual's intrinsic right to association for religion and industry. I also do not 
appreciate any individual of any religion persecuting another of another 
religion. I guess that can be translated for you to mean; "MIND YOUR OWN RELIGIOUS 
BUSINESS". LAKUM DEENIKUM, WALYA DEEN. ANy 
questions????????????????????????????????????????????????

"They doubt the usefulness of all the callers to God." Suntou.

They are wary of clueless lunatics like you.

"They also tell us that the problem of the world today is extremism and 
religious intolerance." Suntou.

What do you think? Don't rely on others' thinking. Think for yourself so you 
would not be an good slave for a desiring master some day.

"Who will question that statement?" Suntou.

Maybe because the history of all wars and violence is rooted in Religious or 
ethnic intolerance. Only Lunatics will question the evident.

"No one will." Suntou.

This doesn't tell me you are rehabilitated yet. Carry on.

"But what they forget to tell us is that any extremism is bad and evil not 
just religious extremism." Suntou.

Very good!!! Yes not just religious extremism. Ethnic extremism, Alcoholic 
extremism, extremism in indulgence, Extremism in poverty, lethargy, stupidity, 
idiocy, sex, drugs, halucinogens, cakes, candy, shoes, you get the idea. 
Good. So you agree that extremism and intolerance are bad. NOT GOOT.

"All religions call to moderation." Suntou.

Very good again. The lunatic however confuses dawah with crusade and 
persecution.

"It is true that there are different religious groups and each believing it 
is on the right path." Suntou.

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"But so is democracy." Suntou.

When folk believed him the first time, he told them he saw another moon. So 
there are different democratic groups and each believing it is on the right 
path. Allahu Akbar!!!! A'Outhou billah minal majnoon.

"Democracy has many models." Suntou.

Hah????

"It is not just one big idea on a horizontal line where every thing is 
equal." Suntou.

Things on a horizontal line may be on parallel planes. Are you familiar wih 
that concept of planar geometry???

"Each country models its unique type of democracy." Suntou.

No baby! Each country is at a different station in the journey toward 
democracy. I knew folk like you should not be introduced to Democracy. Read Haruna, 
Hon. Hamat, and Mahmood Ahmadinejad again. Please.

"Do we have any problem with that?" Suntou.

Why would you have a problem with that?

"We even have monarchy in democratic countries, how unjust can that get?" 
Suntou.

You mean in countries on the journey toward Democracy, don't you?

"The callers to God give people an option." Suntou.

How can you call people to your God when you do not know your God and you do 
not know where he/she is???????????????????

"The important thing is for people to be free to choose which faith group to 
follow if they so wish or remain faithless if that’s what they want." Suntou.

LAKUM DEENIKUM WALYA DEEN. Now you understand I guess. You see, when you're 
a lunatic, you take a convoluted and twisted route to get to the point where 
a straighter path leads to. And you will find sane people there. Yeah, the 
ones you started the journey with yesterday.

"The way we sit down and find out about our life should be the same way we 
analyse the choices available in religion as well." Suntou.

God forbid you try to give somebody advice. I feel sorry for the ones who 
receive advice from you before your rehabilitation. You're liable to lead them 
to a ditch at the apex of the cul-de-sac.

"Callers to religion are no different from the callers to democracy; free 
speech, human rights, animal rights etc." Suntou.

You think Islam believes in Free Speech? You will burn in hell if you think 
that.
You think Islam believes in human rights? You will burn in hell again if you 
do.
You think Islam believes in Animal rights? You are so clueless, you're 
liable to fuck around and kill yourself.

"The callers to a particular faith group mostly state why that religion or 
faith is the best." Suntou.

So you think your religion is the best. The Christian thinks his religion is 
the best. The Mormon thinks his is the best. The adventist thinks his is the 
best. The Hinduja think theirs is the best. The animists think theirs is the 
best. When you are all stranded on a desert Island, What will keep you from 
killing each other? DEMOCRACY. You idiot.

"Just like how some countries keep reminding other countries why they should 
adopt democracy and be friend with them." Suntou.

You are confusing Democracy with empire and Alliance. Think you goon.

"Islam is based on an idea of submission to the will of the only one true 
God." Suntou.
Christianity is based on an idea of Submission to the will of the only one 
true Lord.
Buddaism is based on an idea of Submission to the will of the only one true 
Buddha.
And what about the other religions you idiot?

"Much has been said about how Muslims in the past used to force people to 
accept Islam." Suntou.

We are not interested in how muslings forced people to accept Islam in the 
past. We will make sure they can't do that again if they did that. I think 
you're confusing crusades of greed and intolerance with Religion.

"The big fallacy in that perception is that no one can force any one to 
submit his will to the will of God." Suntou.

He creates a false thesis, and he corrects the fallacy. Now he thinks he is 
trained on propriety.

"No one can do that." Suntou.

Not while I am alive. Your best bet is if the good lord takes me away. Even 
then, I don't think other honest ande conscientious folk will allow you to do 
that.

"The choice for any human being to accept following the one true God by 
submitting his/her will to God can never be done by force." Suntou.

Code for "Islam is the one true religion". The idiot doesn't know we are 
onto him.

"The word Islam can also mean SURRENDER, SUBMISSIOM, and OBEDIENCE."

See whata mean?????????

"These acts must be done with sincerity, peace of mind, and free will." 
Suntou.

Oh brother. How confused can one get?

"The acts of obeying God is to believe that God is the only supreme being 
worthy of obeying in totality, without any questions." Suntou.

So you don't believe in Freedom of expression for Islam then. "Without any 
question". I knew you were headed no-where when you feigned your religion 
believes in freedoms and tolerance. The sad thing is that Islam actually believes 
in those things but you do not know that. Because you arfe not Eemaan.

"The word Islam is usually referred to as peace. But the Arabic word peace 
means salaam not Islam." Suntou.

Suntou, do you know the difference between nouns, verbs, and adjectives? I 
think you're doing Islam an injustice for your cluelessness.

"Islam appropriately means PEACE THAT ONE HAS INSIDE HIM THROUGH HIS 
RELATION WITH ALLAH." Suntou.

So the peace in Salaam is outside of the man without his relation with 
Allah??? Allahu Akbar!

"A Muslim is someone who is practicing Islam. Islam just like democracy 
implores on believers to avoid blood shed and tyranny and to respect human 
rights." Suntou.

What an absolute waste of time and value-life. So Islam is good. And 
Democracy is good.

"It also advises the wealthy to look after the poor." Suntou.
EEtaa'U Zzakaat. Democracy does not advise looking after the poor. Democracy 
is trained on mitigating poverty. One nurtures poverty and encourages 
disparity, the other aims for a more equitable distribution of wealth. Which do you 
prefer since you're comparing Islam to Democracy??????????????????????????? 
You might be beyond rehabilitation and I don't know it yet. I wish Bourghibe 
will share with you the difference between Salaam and Islam.

"It explains to human beings how to attain salvation through the teachings 
in the final testament of God, the Quran." Suntou.

Code for "You can only attain salvation by becoming a muslim".

"How many Muslims today follow Islam as was the practice by prophet of Islam 

=== message truncated ===

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html

To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤