Was Joe's use of bad language sent to G-L (if so I've missed it) or was it the case of his story versus hers and how did you come to the conclution as to who was telling the truth?
Hope they can resolve their differences. Personally, I'll miss Joe's contributions.
Alieu

Cynthia Daniels <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Momodou,

Thank you for the response and your words are noted.

Cynthia

Momodou Sidibeh wrote:
Cynthia Daniels,

The Management Team of Gambia-L had not been under any illusion that the
decision to suspend Joe Sambou would be free from criticism. Gambia-L
rules are simple and limited in scope, and emerged largely as a result of
historical precedence. The penalties attached to the use of profanities,
for example, were adopted when a few subscribers resorted to the use of
unprintable foul language to the consternation of many, a number of years
ago. They do not therefore, accomodate every eventuality.

The spirit of the rules is to act as cultural pointers helping us
remember appropriate codes of communication; unwritten but regulatory
guidelines that enhance social cohesion and to which we all have been
exposed. It is in response to that kind of call many of us intervene in
debates that risk degenerating into personal assaults by calling for
mutual restraint. Our primary cultural failure lies in the need for such
rules in the first place.

There are no measures defined to penalise those guilty of libellous
allegations. Those who made the rules were concerned probably with self-
preservation. For how do you proof that an allegation of being a double
agent is true or false? Even if the primary source of information is
exposed - which is very unusual - the accused can simply refute the
charges, launching a cyclical process of presenting even more evidence,
the call for material witnesses, character witnesses, and so on.

The list managers have neither the time, nor the resources, and certainly
not even the wish to have to resort to this sort of crude litigation, or
some such scheme as a way of arbitrating disputes. It is a forum of
information and opinion and I am sure most subscribers would deplore
associating it with a witchhunting collective.

On the other hand the rules are crystal-clear about penalties for the use
of insults. The list managers decided that because the allegations
levelled against Joe Sambou were serious, he should not suffer the full
consequence of his repeated violations of the rules. Perhaps that
decision is not fair to Joe Sambou. Perhpas it is not fair to those who
suffered the indignities of Joe's eruptions. The list managers have no
monopoly claim on wisdom, and therefore, those who think the case could
be settled in a fairer way are free to suggest an alternative.

However, to think that because one upholds a greater sense of fairness,
and that one can dispense greater justice and be more honest than others,
and thus arrogates the right to break standing rules with impunity like
you did; rules democratically set up by a collective, is not just a
contradiction in terms. It also exposes a streak of pure arrogance.

Sidibeh


-----Original Message-----
From: Cynthia Daniels
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:58:55 -0700
Subject: Re: A Double Agent-LIST MANAGERS

> Malanding,
>
>
> I am aware of the rules, but out of fairness, I forwarded the email.
> Therefore, I can't apologize for my action as I was being fair. I'm
> rather surprised at the list manager’s sense of justice. You all are
> sending the message that it is ok to fabricate whatever you want, as
> long as you don't use foul language. Where do that leave justice and
> honesty?
>
>
> Cynthia
>
> Malanding Jaiteh wrote:
> Sanusi,
> Weeks ago Ms Jabou Joh requested that Mr. Joe Sambou be delisted for
> cursing and calling her names in violation of one of standing rules.
> The
> management asked Joe for his reaction and demanded that he apologize as
> required by the regulations. Joe inturn demanded that Jabou and others
> be asked to apologize to him first for falsely acusing him. After
> several weeks of negotiation and no apologies, the management voted on
> whether to delist Joe permanently or not. We came to a conclusion that
> while Joe may have broken rules, it was largely in driven by outrageous
> acusations that were not substantiated.In otherwords pushed to the
> point
> of snapping! To the effect it would not be fair to remove him from the
> list. We agreed that he be suspended for 4 weeks during which time he
> will be able to receive all mails sent but would not be able to send
> any
> mail to the list. I hope I answer you queries. Other managers are free
> to correct me or add anything I left out.
>
> Malanding
>
> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> >Mr Jaiteh
> >
> >In the name of transparency and , fairplay , I would
> >like to know the reasons for removing Joe Sambou for
> >the list.
> >
> >I believe the poor man has not been treated fairly.
> >Calling Joe a Double Agent was an insult to even those
> >
> >
> >Sanusi.
> >
> >
> >--- Malanding Jaiteh wrote: >
> >Hello Ms Daniels.
> >
> >
> >>You may not be aware of the Gambia-l rule but it is
> >>not permitted to
> >>forward mails to the list from those delisted. I
> >>attach the rules for
> >>your benefit.
> >>Malanding
> >>
> >>------------ REVISED RULES FROM 2002
> >>-----------------
> >>
> >>These are the Gambia-L revised rules.
> >>
> >>
> >>1. Postings on Gambia-L should not contain extreme
> >>insulting or offensive language; pornographic
> >>material; notices of virus hoaxes; and chain
> >>letters.
> >>
> >>2. We´re a diverse, worldwide group of several
> >>hundred people. Our
> >>emphasis is on sharing information. Flaming and
> >>personal insults (including name calling, libellous
> >>statements) are out of place here.
> >>
> >>3. List Managers will, without warning, delist
> >>members who constantly engage in name calling and
> >>insults.
> >>
> >>4. A List Manager can remove a subscriber for
> >>violating any of the rules after having informed
> >>other Managers and waiting for a response within a
> >>period of 24 hours from other managers.
> >>
> >>5. Requests for subscriptions/unsubscriptions
> >>should be sent privately to Gambia-L managers at
> >>, or through
> >>the St.John´s web interface at
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html>.
> >
> >
> >>6. Personal mail should be sent privately, and not
> >>to the List .
> >>
> >>7. Any subscriber who feels that his/her parent has
> >>been abused has to send evidence to the List
> >>management that someone abused his/her parents
> >>before responding in kind on the L because this
> >>might result in the delisting of both the offender
> >>and the person offended.
> >>
> >>8. Complaints about conduct of other subscribers
> >>must be sent directly to the Managers and not to the
> >>entire List. Management will then write to the
> >>accused subscriber in private with a copy of the
> >>mail to the complainant.
> >>
> >>8a. The accused subscriber must, within 72 hours,
> >>respond to the complaint with an apology and promise
> >>not to repeat the offence, or refute the allegations
> >>against him or her.
> >>
> >>8b. In that there is a disagreement about the
> >>gravity of the allegation, Gambia-L List Managers
> >>will vote on whether the accused is guilty or not.
> >>
> >>8c. If the offender is found by the majority of
> >>List Managers to be guilty of the allegations, he or
> >>she must apologize to the person offended by his or
> >>her posting within 72 hours.
> >>
> >>8d. Failure to respond to an alleged offence or
> >>apologize after 3 working days will result in
> >>removal from the List.
> >>
> >>9. Forwarding responses or emails by someone who was
> >>delisted will result in the delisting of the person
> >>who forwarded the mail, especially if it is to
> >>insult or castigate others.
> >>
> >>10. All those who threaten the existence of this
> >>List or otherwise impersonate others by means of
> >>"spoofing" e-mail headers including addresses of
> >>other subscribers, will be banned from resubscribing
> >>to Gambia-L.
> >>
> >>11. An expelled subscriber may apply to rejoin the
> >>list three months after his or her expulsion.
> >>
> >>12. Applications to rejoin the list must be approved
> >>by a simple majority of the management team.
> >>
> >>
> >>Thank you for your cooperation.
> >>
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Gambia-L Management
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>[log in to unmask] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Well, finally Conteh is out. I heard you indicated
> >>>
> >>>
> >>that you will personally
> >>
> >>
> >>>tell me the crap you've been spreading here, at the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>ALD, and I really look
> >>
> >>
> >>>forward to seeing you there Conteh. I will be very
> >>>
> >>>
> >>disappointed if you do
> >>
> >>
> >>>not show up or change your mind for any reason.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Make sure you go to the
> >>
> >>
> >>>Embassy and get their phone log because I am going
> >>>
> >>>
> >>to request that you
> >>
> >>
> >>>either bring the proof or have the Embassy folks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>(whomever, Tijan included)
> >>
> >>
> >>>to support your lie. Something is seriously wrong
> >>>
> >>>
> >>in your head Conteh. One
> >>
> >>
> >>>minute you're ramble about one Gambia and political
> >>>
> >>>
> >>maturity and resort to
> >>
> >>
> >>>lying in the next. Most that met you know that you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>don't seem stable.
> >>
> >>
> >>>"During Sir Dawda's tenure, many politicians came
> >>>
> >>>
> >>and went. Some
> >>
> >>
> >>>capitalized their political opportunity at the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>expense of the Gambian
> >>
> >>
> >>>people. Some mortgaged their future and turned
> >>>
> >>>
> >>their backs on the very
> >>
> >>
> >>>principles that they stood for."
> >>>
> >>>Well Conteh, does this not speak about you? Did you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>not bolt out after the
> >>
> >>
> >>>Presidential elections and join SM to the APRC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>after you sang your insanity
> >>
> >>
> >>>song "Yaya let my people go" for months? If you are
> >>>
> >>>
> >>not a opportunist, then
> >>
> >>
> >>>who is? If you were not a wolf in sheep clothing,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>then I wonder who is?
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Under the APRC government a few Gambians were
> >>>
> >>>
> >>quick to embrace the young
> >>
> >>
> >>>soldiers. Some of our current comrades danced with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the APRC at its infancy.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Some realized that their days with the APRC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>government were things of the
> >>
> >>
> >>>past. They are now part of our struggle. Do we have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the right to pass
> >>
> >>
> >>>judgment on these people? Can we conclude with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>certainty that these folks
> >>
> >>
> >>>are not sincere?"
> >>>
> >>>Conteh, let me help you out here, Gambians know
> >>>
> >>>
> >>that you're not sincere and
> >>
> >>
> >>>yours is a hustle and a fraud. What makes you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>believe that the Alternative
> >>
> >>
> >>>will waste their time with you? Under what party
> >>>
> >>>
> >>are you going to contest
> >>
> >>
> >>>under, APRC or NCP? You have a right to contest,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>but that as good as it
> >>
> >>
> >>>gets. Please do not delude yourself to thinking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>that you will pull a stunt
> >>
> >>
> >>>like SM's. If that is the case, then you might as
> >>>
> >>>
> >>well save yourself the
> >>
> >>
> >>>energy and campaign for Yaya, whose APRC party you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>joined right here. By
> >>
> >>
> >>>the way, can you contest without living in the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>country for a certain number
> >>
> >>
> >>>of years? If that is the case, how come you do not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>know that? I know in
> >>
> >>
> >>>your own neurotic way you might believe you can use
> >>>
> >>>
> >>this ploy as a leverage.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I can guarantee you, you will not get more than
> >>>
> >>>
> >>fifty votes anywhere, even
> >>
> >>
> >>>in your own street. All folks need is to hear you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>once and they know the
> >>
> >>
> >>>crack they're dealing with.
> >>>
> >>>"As we approach summer, I will be going to visit
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the Gambia after summer
> >>
> >>
> >>>school. I will be holding meetings with opposition
> >>>
> >>>
> >>members. I will request
> >>
> >>
> >>>permission from the APRC government to holding a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>meeting in Brikama."
> >>
> >>
> >>>Folks, this is the reason why Conteh resorted to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>his lies and he is not
> >>
> >>
> >>>ashamed of himself. His greed has blinded him to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the point he had to lower
> >>
> >>
> >>>the standard of acceptable behavior. This will
> >>>
> >>>
> >>serve as a lesson to other
> >>
> >>
> >>>would be liars, you will be held accountable for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>it. Conteh, you are not
> >>
> >>
> >>>going to escape from this corner you boxed yourself
> >>>
> >>>
> >>in. Since you made this
> >>
> >>
> >>>lie, your readership is demanding that you provide
> >>>
> >>>
> >>a shred of evidence, yet
> >>
> >>
> >>>you continue to dig yourself in a deeper hole. Most
> >>>
> >>>
> >>that were not sure of
> >>
> >>
> >>>your mental instability are now convinced beyond
> >>>
> >>>
> >>doubt that you're indeed a
> >>
> >>
> >>>quack. I look forward to seeing you in D.C.
> >>>
> >>>
> >=== message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________
> >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
> >your friends today! Download Messenger Now
> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
> >
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