Ginny,
 
I wonder why you continue to harp on what Mugabe may have done to his people when it has already been pointed out that this is not what we are defending and so it is hardly the point. Also, unless you have first hand knowledge of all of the information you are using as evidence, I think it is prudent to refrain from speaking out with such authority.
 
 Jabou Joh

-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Zimbabwe


Greetings, Jabou, Malanding pointed out: 
 
"I think it will be tragic if we see the Zimbabwe problem as a chance to 
get even with Europe. The neocolonialists may be devils but Mr Mugabe is 
no angel. This man has been President of Zimbabwe since 1980 (27 years) 
and still wants to extend his time. Either Zimbabweans can't get enough 
of him or should I say he just can't get enough of being there. 
 
Even if the MDC leaders receive money from outside interests to 
campaign against the land reform program, is beating and detention 
without trial the solution? Or is it that beating and detention without 
due process is acceptable as long as its perpetrated by our own?" 
 
And then Kabir said: 
 
"You never cease to amaze me! How dare you blatently disregard the facts in 
this matter and try to spin it? Whoever talked about getting even with 
Europe? Have you ever heard of the term justice? 
 
Well that is what people who have a sense of the term are talking about, not 
getting even but getting JUSTICE. Get that in your head, JUSTICE for the 
victims of imperialist plunder and pillage that is for a large part 
responsible for the condition that the long suffering people of Africa find 
ourselves. But for you maybe our condition is just the natural order of 
thing? 
 
And who talked about Mugabe being an angel? For once, there is an 
African leader who stands up to your idols, calls them by their proper names 
and does not suck up to them. Zimbabwe is a sovereign country and their 
independence was hard won, in the battlefield, not granted on a sliver 
platter and those progressive sons of Africa are going to continue to fight 
to defend their right to self determination. Monkey is not going to continue 
to work so baboon can eat! 
 
Just as Mugabe told your Angels, if that is how you view the West, they can 
go hang because Mugabe was elected by the people of Zimbabwe and it is not 
the the place of Downing Street, the White House or Bush House to institute 
regime change in Zimbabwe. 
 
Putting Zimbabwe aside, I'm not surprised either that you are always unable 
to separate the chaff from the grains, it is eveident from much of what you 
post here." 
 
So it is like some want to overlook Mugabe's actions because of 
"getting justice" for what colonialism has done to Zimbabwe. 
 
I can support and understand Mugabe's need for justice for Zimbabwe, 
and I can understand the leaders of the SADC wanting to "stand up to 
the West", but while we are talkign for justice for the West, what 
about justice for Zimbabweans who have stood up against Mugabe? It 
seems that that was all that Malanding was bringing up, is that while 
some might want to put up Mugabe as a hero for Africa, etc., and a 
person who "stands up against the West", they will get very defensive 
when you mention Mugabe's own "injustices" against his own people! 
 
Perhaps the sanctions against Zimbabwe are doing more to entrench 
Mugabe precisely because he is continually seen as a freedom fighter, 
no matter if he himself detains opposition members and those who 
oppose him. 
 
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't ignore Mugabe's dictatorial 
tendnecies in the interest of "standing up against the West". Many 
Western countries may indeed be trying to get back at Zimbabwe for its 
land reform policies and using sancitons to do this, however, Mugabe 
may also be not necessarily acting in the interests of the Zimbabwean 
people. I don't see it as a "black-and-white" thing here, there is a 
lot of gray here! 
 
 
Perhaps some would say "democracy has nothing to do with it", and 
perhaps if you are strictly talking about the West's interference in 
Zimbabwe, you might be right. However, I'm still not going to put 
Mugabe up some kind of pedestal either. That is all I'm saying. 
Because from some of the comments here, I think some people want to 
overlook Mugabe's record in the interest of "defending Africa" or 
"standing up against the West" or whatever. And I don't think that 
saying that Mugabe is a dictator, or wants to entrench himself, or 
anything like that, is the same as "worship the west as your idols" or 
whatever! 
 
nd that was what was inferred, that if you say that Mugabe isn't 
perfect, that you're trying to downplay the west's role in the 
problems in Zimbabwe, and who said that? But anyway. I saw Kabir's 
post on the US's interference in Zimbabwe, and I look forward to 
reading it, and also doing further research on this topic. However, 
no matter what role the West has played, it doesn't seem like Mugabe 
is doing his people any favors anyway, even if he did go tell the West 
to "go hang themselves". Jammeh's also made anti-Western statements, 
and no one came on here defending him as the "defender of Africa", why 
should Mugabe be any different just beucase he told the west to "go 
hang themselves"? 
 
If he actually allowed a free and open political environment and 
allowed people to express their views freely, then perhaps we can say 
"Go Mugabe go", when he amkes anti-western statements. 
 
*sigh*, I don't feel like I'm doing a good job of explaining myself, 
so I'll stop for now. I am aware that Mugabe fought for Zimbabwe's 
independence and all, and I can respect that, but it seems that like 
so many others, power has gotten to his head, and sadly, he can use 
the West's interference and sanctions against Zimbabwe to furhter make 
himself into some kind of martyr against the West or whatever, and 
still trample on his own people. 
 
Ginny 
 
 
-- Visit my blog at: http://quickgm28.blogs.com/ginnys_thoughts_and_thing/ 
 
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