Well KB, I respect your stance, as well. I find it totally unacceptable for
you to take me for a Jammeh sympathizer for simply coming to the defense of
the gentleman(Mr. Joof). I've expressed my utmost disapproval of his move in
taking up the post of AG under the status quo, but nonetheless, I feel
strongly about this man and I would not reject him for simply joining the
opponent's camp. I saw you going too personal and I decided to express how I
felt about it. That's all. Of course I'd come to his defense, as well, if I
thought otherwise about his acceptance of the job.

After all, it's not to the detriment of this dabate for us to agree to
disagree. I know that each one of us sincerely wants all the best for our
people and The Gambia. Finally, do not take me for one of Jammeh's
mothpieces. (:-0) I'd rather move on and put this matter to rest. Have a
good night, my Brother.

Ous Ngum

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:18:36 -0500, The Gambia and related-issues mailing
list wrote:

>  Ous, I respect your intervention, but I also have to (with all due
respect)
>  beg to differ from your arguments and conclusions. First of all, I will
>  state that I owe Joseph Joof no retraction. You did not make a case for
your
>  belief. All that I have said on my posting is the truth. I challenge you
or
>  anyone to point out one single untruth I spoke and I will loudly
apologize
>  to you and Joseph Joof.
>
>  All I hear you complain about was that I did not talk about some of
Joof's
>  good qualities. You will never hear from me (unqualified) praises of
these
>  vermin. I have said before in this forum that I will loudly criticize
every
>  wrong move Yaya and his cohorts make, and ignore any right move they
might
>  make. This is a deliberate move on my part. Yaya and his cohorts have
enough
>  praise-singers to talk about their achievements. My contempt for these
>  people is unequivocal. I hate them as much as they hate the Gambian
people.
>  Political correctness is not my forte.
>
>  I am not one that treats his enemies like friends. I have nothing against
>  people that want to be 'fair' to Yaya and his gang. If you come here and
say
>  good things about Joseph Joof or Yaya for that matter, I will not
criticize
>  you if what you said is the truth and is consistent with the point you
are
>  making. In the same vein, if you want my retraction, point to me a lie
that
>  I told.
>
>  You alluded to my statements about some of Joseph Joof's achievements.
Read
>  my posting properly and please do not put words in my mouth. Granted,
there
>  is some innuendo there that can lead to several conclusions. Make your
own
>  conclusions, but do not ascribe those to me. Brother, as I keep saying,
this
>  is war, and I take it very seriously. I have no mercy for people that
want
>  to mortgage their souls to the Devil. Sending to G_L inflammatory
language
>  that could be interpreted to the detriment of Yaya and his cohorts, is
the
>  least worrying thing I will do to these vermin.
>
>  What did I say about his Mercedes and the way he acquired it? That he
pushed
>  the envelop to get it? What exactly do you think I meant by that? Ous,
there
>  is not one single word I send to G_L without thinking it through
thoroughly.
>  I agree that some of Joof's past activities are irrelevant to the topic
at
>  hand. In fact, I said so in my piece. But we might have different reasons
>  for concluding that his past activities are irrelevant. As I said in my
>  piece, my reason for not getting into Joof's true character is that he is
>  going to work for a government headed by crooks that careless about
>  integrity. If this was a legitimate government, don't you think that they
>  would want the AG (custodian of our laws) to be someone with impeccable
>  character? So, questionable transactions Joof might have been involved
in,
>  should be relevant in a discourse talking about Joof's appointment.
Again,
>  I will not get into the matter any further, because there is no point in
>  doing so as I stated above.
>
>  I know Joseph Joof very well. When I questioned his professional
>  achievements, I compared him with Ousman Sillah, Antouman Gaye, Ousainou
>  Darboe and Ida Drammeh. In my opinion, all these people are better
lawyers
>  than Joof. The only place I could discern where I questioned Joof's
academic
>  achievements, was where I stated that while he was at the Sixth Form
there
>  were students that had better A'Levels but were not given scholarships to
go
>  study law in Britain. Am I lying?
>
>  Ous, I am a true partisan and I am unapologetic about it. I will not come
to
>  the defense of any of these vermin. It saddens me when I see good people
>  like you, Dr. Touray, Momodou Camara etc. come to the defense of these
>  people. Like I say, I will not fault you for that unless you speak
untruth.
>  I also expect the same amount of respect from you. Frankly, I think you
are
>  wasting emotions on people that are unworthy of your support, and when
you
>  intervene on their behalf, you send the wrong signals to some of your
>  friends. It does not tell well on you when you criticize some one because
>  they said something that might be offensive to Yaya and his gang and then
>  tolerate Yaya supporters coming here and telling blatant lies about
people.
>  Last week blatant lies were told about me and Ebrima Ceesay and no one
from
>  G_L List Management came here to put the record straight. To me, those
lies
>  are more serious than calling Yaya a moron or saying that Joseph Joof is
not
>  an 'outstanding success' when compared to legal luminaries like Ousman
>  Sillah.
>
>  Finally, I just want to make it abundantly clear that I am not here to be
>  politically correct or to be 'fair' to Yaya and his cohorts. A government
>  that sanctioned the murder of our children in broad daylight, does not
>  deserve any good words from me. That is where I am coming from when I
write
>  to G_L. If you want to read or hear good things about Yaya, go read the
>  Observer or listen to GRTS. I hope we understand each other.
>  KB
>
>
>
>  >From: Ousainou Ngum <[log in to unmask]>
>  >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>  ><[log in to unmask]>
>  >To: [log in to unmask]
>  >Subject: KB Dampha --- Re: Joseph Joof ---- The Task Ahead
>  >Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:26:43 -0800
>  >
>  >KB, with all due respect, I'll beg to defer with you on this posting of
>  >yours. Let me begin by reiterating my utter disgust at Joseph Joof
(Paabi)
>  >for his acceptance of the job of AG. Infact, he has tremendously
>  >disappointed a lot of people, including his colleagues,  for taking such
a
>  >move. He'll find it virtually impossible to regain the trust and
reputation
>  >he enjoyed with Gambian society.
>  >
>  >Having said that, I just wanna express my complete repudiation of what
you
>  >wrote about this gentleman; academically, economically and socially.
>  >Reading
>  >through the lines of your posting, I could notice some flagrant scorn
that
>  >you have towards this man. What does his Mercedes, and the way he
acquired
>  >it, has to do with the topic at hand? What about his otherwise good
>  >demeanor
>  >that you arbitrarily put on the defensive? I do not need to take you
back
>  >to
>  >what you said in order to establish a rationale for my argument; or
should
>  >I
>  >say for my rejection of this piece.
>  >
>  >You had a good case until you decided to jot down this man's
shortcomings
>  >while having his accomplishments stifled. My brother, I honestly believe
>  >that you owe it to this man to retract this posting. Meanwhile, I
sincerely
>  >agree with you that his controversial move was ill-advised and, sadly,
>  >he'll
>  >pay dearly for it. It's only a question of time, but "his termination
>  >letter
>  >has already been drafted" to quote Ebrima Ceesay's sources.
>  >
>  >Ous Ngum.
>  >
>  >On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:00:57 -0500, The Gambia and related-issues mailing
>  >list wrote:
>  >
>  > >  Now that Joseph Joof has been sworn in as the seventh Attorney
General
>  > >  (eighth if you add Amie Bensouda's acting capacity in that
position),
>  >he
>  >has
>  > >  a daunting task ahead of him. He inherits a justice system that is
in
>  >total
>  > >  chaos thanks to the dismemberment it went through during Pap
Cheyassin
>  > >  Secka's tenure. Does Joof have the wherewithal to turn things around
>  >for
>  >the
>  > >  betterment of the ordinary Gambian?
>  > >
>  > >  I first encountered Joseph Joof when he was the 'Head-Boy' at the
>  >Gambia
>  > >  High School in the late 70s, early 80s. Ironically, the 'Head-Girl'
at
>  >the
>  > >  time was Fatou Bom Bensouda (one of the AGs Yaya already fired).
When
>  >Joseph
>  > >  Joof finished high school, there was already an unwritten government
>  >policy
>  > >  that stated, inter alia, government will not support the sponsorship
of
>  >any
>  > >  Gambian student that wanted to study law in the United Kingdom. The
>  > >  reasoning behind this government policy was, 'there was a high
>  >turn-over
>  > >  rate at the Attorney General Chambers.' Let me hasten here to add
that
>  >I
>  > >  think this was a bad policy. The only reason I am bringing this up
is
>  >to
>  > >  illustrate how Joseph Joof was given a special treatment by the
Jawara
>  > >  regime, thanks to the influence of people like Wallace Grante. While
>  >his
>  > >  colleagues (some with better A'Level results) were hoist to other
>  >African
>  > >  countries to study law (e.g. Fatou Bensouda went to Nigeria) and
others
>  >were
>  > >  forced to pursue other careers because of this repugnant government
>  >policy,
>  > >  Joseph was given a full scholarship to go to Britain and study law.
>  > >
>  > >  When Joof returned to the country (I believe in the mid 80s), he
shun
>  >the
>  > >  very government (people) that gave him the special treatment and his
>  >legal
>  > >  education. If he worked for the government at all, he spent there
less
>  >than
>  > >  a year. On the other hand, people like Fatou Bensouda spent their
>  >entire
>  > >  careers with the government until they were fired by Yaya.
>  > >
>  > >  I do not fault Joof for going to private practice to seek greener
>  >pastures.
>  > >  But I must point out the hypocrisy Joof is now engaged in now. This
was
>  >a
>  > >  man who was bonded to repay the people of The Gambia the loan he was
>  >given
>  > >  to achieve his dream to become a lawyer. When he was called to duty
as
>  >a
>  > >  young and dynamic lawyer, he walked away from the Gambian people.
Where
>  >was
>  > >  his desire 'to serve his nation' at that time? Forget the civic duty
>  >aspects
>  > >  here. This man owed us (the taxpayers). The British Council
scholarship
>  >that
>  > >  was given to him could have gone to a doctor we could use at RVH or
to
>  >an
>  > >  agronomist or a lawyer that will stay at AG's Chambers. Apart from
>  >running
>  > >  away from his call for duty, Joof also helped legitimize the
ridiculous
>  > >  reasoning of our policy-makers vis-a-vis sponsoring people to go to
UK
>  >to
>  > >  study law. Even Hawa Ceesay (also another AG fired by Yaya and
Joof's
>  > >  sister-in-law), whose father was once a cabinet member in the Jawara
>  >regime,
>  > >  had to go to a Third World country to study law. In short, thanks to
>  >Joof,
>  > >  government became more adamant in its decision not to 'waste'
>  >scholarships
>  > >  on students wanting to study law in Britain. I am giving this
>  >background
>  >to
>  > >  illustrate the point that I do not believe Joof when he tells me
that
>  >he
>  > >  accepted the post because he wants to serve the nation as a good
>  >citizen.
>  >I
>  > >  also want to debunk any story Joof might tell when he (like all Yaya
>  > >  cronies) want to play 'a Jawara victim'. This man got things
daughters
>  >of
>  > >  cabinet members could not get. He had the opportunity the past
fifteen
>  > >  years, and decided to walk away from us and fend for himself and his
>  > >  immediate family. Joof never repaid the loan he owed us.
>  > >
>  > >  Joof's career in the private Bar cannot be described as an
outstanding
>  > >  success. He is by no means in the caliber of Ousman Sillah, Ousainou
>  >Darboe,
>  > >  Antouman Gaye and Ida Drammeh, to name a few. On the surface, Joof
>  >might
>  > >  appear to be wealthy in Gambian parlance. But if you scratch that
>  >surface
>  >a
>  > >  little, the ugly realities of Gambian society rears its ugly head.
In
>  > >  fairness, I have to say that Joof used his 'Aku' connections to get
a
>  >lot
>  >of
>  > >  legitimate business. But Gambia is such that there is not much clean
>  >money
>  > >  floating around. Joof, being the self-promoter he is, had to push
the
>  > >  envelop in order to ride in a Mercedes Benz like some of the elite
of
>  >his
>  > >  time. If I were convinced that the government that is now going to
>  >employ
>  > >  Joof is a legitimate government that will not tolerate certain
>  >scandalous
>  > >  behavior, I will narrate here some dubious deals Joof was involved
in
>  >with
>  > >  some of his clients that were under Interpol investigations. I would
>  >explain
>  > >  to you how Joof got his first Mercedes Benz. But knowing that the
most
>  > >  corrupt Gambian is at the helm of this government; Knowing that we
have
>  > >  murderers leading our government, I will spare Joof from the agony.
>  > >
>  > >  As I opined in previous mailings, Joof qua president of the Bar
>  >Association,
>  > >  sat by as AG upon AG trampled on the rights of ordinary Gambians. As
a
>  > >  matter of fact, he partook in the worst denial of justice that has
ever
>  > >  taken place in the country. He sat in a Commission of Inquiry that
>  >could
>  >not
>  > >  punish the perpetrators of the most heinous crime that has visited
our
>  > >  country. Where was Joof when the soldiers stole power from a
>  > >  constitutionally elected government? Where was Joof and his sense of
>  >duty
>  > >  when this illegal government formed kangaroo courts and started
seizing
>  > >  people's properties they worked for even before Yaya was born? Where
>  >was
>  > >  Joof when Fafa Mbye was helping Yaya to pass all those draconian
>  >decrees?
>  > >  Where was Joof when Mustapha Marong was appointed AG in clear
>  >contravention
>  > >  of the laws of The Gambia? Where was Joof and his sense of duty when
>  >his
>  > >  colleagues were ambushed by Yaya thugs? Joof will not be able to
point
>  >to
>  > >  one single occasion he has stood up against the rampant human rights
>  >abuses
>  > >  going on in the country. People like Emmanuel Joof that were still
in
>  >High
>  > >  School when Joof was already a lawyer, can point to all sorts of
things
>  >they
>  > >  have done to safeguard people's human rights in the country. And may
I
>  >add
>  > >  that Emmanuel never got a government scholarship to pay for his
legal
>  > >  education in Britain. His father worked hard for the United Nations
to
>  > >  educate his children. Joseph Joof prefers to be below the radar
screens
>  >when
>  > >  it comes to standing up for our people. But when it comes to empty
>  >titles
>  > >  like the president of the Bar Association, he will connive and
>  >back-stab
>  >to
>  > >  become visible. He would not be a young and dynamic prosecutor, but
he
>  >will
>  > >  happily be an AG. What utter hypocrisy?
>  > >
>  > >  I received a private mail from a friend of mine back home that used
to
>  >look
>  > >  up to Joof. Reading the mail, one can tell that it was from a very
>  >wounded
>  > >  person. He lamented that he could not understand why Joof will
accept
>  >such a
>  > >  position, at this crucial period, knowing all he (Joof) knows about
the
>  > >  pathetic way Yaya is running the country. I consoled my friend and
told
>  >him
>  > >  certain things about Joof that I did not tell him before and I will
not
>  > >  repeat here. At the end of the day, my friend realized that the
Joseph
>  >Joof
>  > >  I know, is not the devout Christian and honest and smart person he
>  >thought
>  > >  Joof was. I am narrating this encounter to show people like Joseph
Joof
>  >that
>  > >  they hurt many a young people by their ill-advised and selfish
actions.
>  > >  Actions he (Joof) cannot even justify, as shown by his brief
acceptance
>  > >  speech at the swearing-in ceremony.
>  > >
>  > >  Lofty words were spoken at the ceremony. There was incoherent mumbo
>  >jumbo
>  > >  from Yaya, trying to make sense of what Independence of the
Judiciary
>  >and
>  > >  Separation of Power means. Needless to say, Yaya does not even begin
to
>  > >  understand what these two maxims stand for. In the Gambian context,
the
>  > >  former essentially means that the executive (Yaya and his AG) should
>  >refrain
>  > >  from the dismemberment of the judiciary they are engaged in. There
has
>  >to
>  >be
>  > >  checks and balances to ensure that judges are not arbitrarily fired
by
>  >Yaya
>  > >  and Joseph Joof or intimidated by government thugs. Can we count on
the
>  >duo
>  > >  to stop meddling with the judiciary? Absolutely not. Why? Because
Yaya
>  >and
>  > >  his cohorts are fond of taking legally indefensible positions. The
>  > >  overwhelming majority of the actions of this illegitimate government
>  >are
>  > >  illegal. This government breaks the law every day. Case in point is
the
>  > >  unlawful incarceration of Dumo et al. The best legal minds in this
>  >world
>  > >  cannot defend the actions of this government. Joseph Joof certainly
>  >cannot
>  > >  defend some of the actions of this government. So, what happens if
they
>  > >  break the law. The courts rule against them. Being the dictators
they
>  >are,
>  > >  Yaya and his cohorts cannot handle people telling them that they are
>  >wrong.
>  > >  When they commit crimes and the courts say so, they take the law
into
>  >their
>  > >  own hands and fire the judges and the magistrates. The reason we
have
>  >such a
>  > >  huge turn-over of AGs is no accident. The AGs we have had do not
have
>  >the
>  > >  wherewithal or the guts to straighten Yaya out. They do all they can
to
>  > >  assist in Yaya's illegal enterprises, but there always comes a point
>  >where
>  > >  they simply cannot deliver to the Devil. He then turns around and
fires
>  > >  them. So at the end of the day, the AG will be in between a rock and
a
>  >hard
>  > >  place. The AG, by participating in some of Yaya's illegal
enterprises,
>  >would
>  > >  have alienated the Gambian people. At the same time, the AG will
also
>  > >  eventually fall out of favor with Yaya because he/she (the AG) will
be
>  > >  unable to satisfy Yaya's gigantic appetite for criminal behavior.
This
>  >is
>  > >  the most difficult job in Yaya's cabinet. The actions of the AG can
>  >always
>  > >  be put under a microscope in the courts or other forums. Other
cabinet
>  > >  members are not under that type of scrutiny. Needless to say that
one
>  >does
>  > >  not have to look too closely at the actions of this government to
find
>  >some
>  > >  criminal aspect.
>  > >
>  > >  We cannot rely on Joseph Joof to put an end to this circle. We
cannot
>  >rely
>  > >  on Joseph Joof to tell Yaya that it is the right (and the legal)
thing
>  >to
>  >do
>  > >  to prosecute Baboucarr Jatta, Ousman Badgie, Sankung Badgie, Baba
Jobe,
>  > >  Isatou Njie-Saidy and numerous others for the murder of our
children.
>  >Do
>  > >  people seriously think that Joseph Joof is going to go behind Baba
>  >Jobe's
>  > >  and Amadou Samba's back and alert Yaya of dubious deals Jobe and
Samba
>  >want
>  > >  to put Gambia into? If a case like the Alimenta fiasco surfaces or
the
>  >case
>  > >  that is currently brewing at NAWEC, Joof will do what he is good at
and
>  >fly
>  > >  below the radar screen. Like AGs of the past, he will not give
correct
>  >legal
>  > >  advise at the onset because he is afraid to step on toes of thugs
like
>  >Baba
>  > >  Jobe and Amadou Samba. They will all wait until it costs the
taxpayers
>  > >  millions of dollars (opportunity cost) and then take the blame for
Yaya
>  >and
>  > >  Baba Jobe and Amadou Samba. These lawyers have no guts and some of
them
>  >are
>  > >  worse than Yaya in terms of the damage they are doing to the
country.
>  > >
>  > >  Can we rely on Joof to do what is right and drop the bogus charges
>  >against
>  > >  Dumo et al? Not if Yaya is against the idea. Can we rely on Joof to
>  >drop
>  >the
>  > >  bogus murder charges against Ousainou Darboe et al? Can we rely on
Joof
>  >to
>  > >  prosecute and convict the thugs that were responsible for the Radio
FM
>  >arson
>  > >  attack and attempted murder of the proprietor? Can we count on Joof
to
>  >tell
>  > >  Yaya that the dismissal of the IEC Commissioners was unlawful? Would
>  >Joof
>  > >  prevent the passing of the proposed undemocratic constitutional
>  >amendments
>  > >  that are aimed at centralizing more power in Yaya? In short, can we
>  >rely
>  >on
>  > >  Joof to stand up for the defenseless Gambians against the tyranny
Yaya
>  > >  visits on us on a daily basis?
>  > >
>  > >  The future seems bleak if we go by Joof's record of inaction as
>  >president
>  >of
>  > >  the Bar Association. The future also does not look good if we take
into
>  > >  consideration that even after Secka was replaced as AG, the
government
>  >is
>  > >  still insisting that no one will be punished for the massacre of our
>  > >  children. I wonder how Joof feels to be sitting at the same table
with
>  > >  cabinet members his commission found were murderers.
>  > >
>  > >  As we can see, Joof has an insurmountable task ahead of him. He can
>  >start
>  >by
>  > >  lecturing Yaya on the meaning of Separation of Powers and the
concept
>  >of
>  > >  Checks and balances. After that, Joof has to embark on the serious
task
>  >of
>  > >  undoing some of the glaring illegalities this government is engaged
in.
>  > >  Something has to be done, forthwith, about the murderers of our
>  >children
>  >and
>  > >  the political prisoners that are unlawfully incarcerated.
>  > >
>  > >  Finally, I would like to tell people that looked up to Joof not to
be
>  > >  demoralized by Joof's despicable decision. The fight we are engaged
in
>  >is
>  > >  worth fighting. The truth will always prevail. Joof will also be
sacked
>  > >  pretty soon because like previous AGs, he also cannot defend the
>  > >  indefensible. There are many Joseph Joofs in The Gambia of today.
But
>  >their
>  > >  actions should not discourage the good people that are fighting for
a
>  >Gambia
>  > >  free from tyranny.
>  > >  KB
>  > >
>  > >  _________________________________________________________________
>  > >  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>  > >
>  > >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > >
>  > >  To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>  >Gambia-L
>  > >  Web interface at:
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>  > >  You may also send subscription requests to
>  >[log in to unmask]
>  > >  if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to
write
>  >your full name and e-mail address.
>  > >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >_______________________________________________________
>  >Send a cool gift with your E-Card
>  >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>  >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
Gambia-L
>  >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>  >You may also send subscription requests to
>  >[log in to unmask]
>  >if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write
your
>  >full name and e-mail address.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  _________________________________________________________________
>  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>  Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>  You may also send subscription requests to
[log in to unmask]
>  if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write
your full name and e-mail address.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
You may also send subscription requests to [log in to unmask]
if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your full name and e-mail address.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------