Guys:

Please, excuse me for typing errors. My keyboard stiffs when striking keys.
Ansumana.


>From: Mr Makaveli <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: My Perspectives On The Gambia-L Rules Et Al
>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:49:09 -0500
>
>Folks,
>  On the issue of Gambia-L rules, I'm just curious as to how many times
>we have to remind each other that we are NOT miniature adults here and
>that we expect a certain level of respect from one another, even when we
>disagree. Hell, life has never been easy for our brothers and sisters, and
>although I try very hard to not trivialize the issues raise by many of
>you, I simply cannot condone to the notion that List Managers should be
>acting as Bounty Hunters, Judge and Jury, as well as Parole and Probation
>Officers, all at the same time. This to me is time consuming, counter-
>productive  and at best a little far-fetching.And if that's the case they
>might as well transform Gambia-L into a Support Group facility if you know
>what I mean. Remeber one time they have this thing where you introduce
>yourself when you first subscribe to the G_L , like this :
>[ACTION!]...
>   Hi everyone, my name is such and such and I am a recovering acoholic and
>   I...................bada-bong..bada-bang..bada-bing (o-:)lol
>[CUT!].
>Think I'm joking? Maybe I am but you see what I'm getting at. I'm just
>glad no taxpayer's 'dalasis' have been exhausted to the last 'butut' on
>such a fruitless campaign to silence some list members in the opposition.
>What a trend this has become lately. One strike and you outta here. Yuk!
>Ladies and gentlemen, censorship is a billion dollar business and I'm sure
>this NO news to many of you. Please let us not waste time and resources on
>this.
>
>I also understand it that Mr Ansumana Kujabi has been on probation since
>February and no one ever heard from Prof Assan anymore. The Essa Thomases
>are about to follow suit,all gone for good, and by the time we realize that
>the rules in place are horrendously deficient in judgment and lack merit
>nor moral ground, many what could have been fine contributors will be
>forced to hit the superhighway of what is infact modern technology if in
>fact such rules arre not deregulated in the interest of all and sundry.
>All these euphoric brouhaha for breaking vagrant rules in a cyber forum?
>Even world renown hackers don't spend that much time in the penitentiary .
>Just as I abhor adding fuel to a burning fire and hate to uncompromise the
>competence of our poor List Managers who have to put up with us (Gambians),
>I simply just don't idly believe that having these Supreme Court decision
>making tactics in cyber forum is the solution to the problem. For some us
>maybe, but certainly not for all us. The 'Delete' button on our keyboard
>has a very specific purpose. No need for me to explain what for.The fact
>remains that you goona have the Kebba Jobes who proudly chose to hide their
>identity, say whatever they feel like and have no same or repercussions. He
>keeps telling us his identity is not the issue but those who write here
>with their real names are forced to be accountable with what they write
>here. So it does no justice treat the likes of Kebba Jobe lightly while
>putting the Ansumana Kujabis, who I may add uses his real name, under such
>intense microscopic scrutiny. Because The Ansumana Kujabis use their real
>name they either defend themselves by putting their points across and
>apologize whe they see any wrong-doing. But for the Kebba Jobes, what do
>they have to loose. They don't take the risk many of us who use our real
>names put ourselves when we provide damaging information to say the APRC
>for instance. For all I know they can curse at anyone they choose, get
>delisted and come back with 5 or 10 alias and still do whatever their heart
>desires. To that note, purnishment to those who use their real name seems
>more severe. I can go and on with other incidences but as you see folks,
>it is almost impossible to control a forum of consenting adults of this
>magnitude. That is why we should be open minded and try to have a certain
>level of respect for one another. if our conscience doesn't help us, our
>emotions will not either.
>
>In a forum where the overwhelming majority are speaking out daily to free
>Dumo et al, I find it rather ironic that, that same forum is in contempt
>with trying to incarcerate some it's most ardent and loyal members,putting
>them incommunicado and giving them persona non-grata status. What we have
>to understand that a lot of us in the struggle for the restoration of
>democrasy, peace and justice are indeen very oppressed, subjected to all
>forms of injustice and so in light of this fact we should expect emotions
>to run high and have few ugly altercations here and there. Overall what is
>paramount to note at the end of the day is that the essence/rudiments of
>participatory dialogue among fellow Gambians must be allowed to exist
>over the ilks preconceived misconceptions. Views will differs and it is the
>responsibilities of list members to matters into their own hands and
>apologize when one is needed as opposed to list managers trying to micro-
>manage what they have no control over. They should more worried about
>keeping the mail servers up and running and making sure our mails get
>through to all recipients. Why try to baby-sit grown adults? Gambia-L is
>simply a medium that publishes the postings to offer readers a new glimpse
>into the working of engaged political discource in the struggle for human
>rights and democracy, and of coursce including many other interests. What
>good then would it be if we turn this wonderful medium into some hereditary
>nobility where it's either one way or the highway?
>
>Whatever happened to rehabitation as opposed to purnishment. Make people
>aware of the repercussions of their actions and try to make the best of
>heated situations. A bad action is best left undone. One is punished later
>for a bad action. But a good deed is best done, for which one will not be
>punished for doing it. Though some perspectives on crime and punishment
>support the contemporary movement toward restorative justice in place of
>retributive, the history of punishment is in some respects like the
>history of war; it seems to accompany the human condition almost
>universally, to enjoy periods of glorification, to be commonly regarded as
>justified in many instances, and yet to run counter to our ultimate vision
>of what human society should be.
>
>The question that comes to mind is :Why do we punish? Say the likes of
>innocent people like Dumo et al as well as The Ansumana Kujabas et al? It
>may seem an odd question, but only until we try to answer it. To punish is
>to harm, and harming must be justified.Three types of justification are
>usually offered: the harm of punishment is outweighed by some greater good
>(for example, it deters others); punishment does not really harm offenders
>(because it reforms them); and harming offenders is good in itself
>(because retribution “annuls the crime“). However, each of these reasons
>becomes problematical when examined.
>
>The first argument is a utilitarian one, and the usual objections against
>utilitarianism are all the more pointed when the issue is justice. It
>seems immoral to harm someone because we want to influence others’
>behavior; such a principle could also be used to justify scapegoating
>innocents. This is not just an abstract refutation, for there is the
>uncomfortable possibility that offenders today have become our scapegoats
>for larger social problems. And from a practical point of view this
>justification does not seem to be working. If punishment warns other would-
>be offenders, why does the United States , which incarcerates a larger
>percentage of its population than any other industrialized country,
>continue to have the one of the very highest crime rates?
>
>The second argument, that punishment does not really harm the offender,
>has some force, but is not usually true today. The Quakers may have
>intended the penitentiary to be a place of penitence, but that meaning has
>long been lost, and there is little doubt that incarceration makes most
>offenders worse. As often happens, an institution that does not fulfill
>its ORIGINAL PURPOSE (List Managers please note the emphasis)continues to
>exist for other reasons—in this case because, to tell the truth, we do not
>know what else to do with most offenders except remove them to places
>where they will be unable to re-offend.
>
>The third argument, that harming offenders is good in itself, is more
>complicated because it incorporates several types of justifications.
>Historically the most common, and (although we do not like to admit it)
>perhaps still prevalent, is the desire for vengeance. In many cases this
>is understandable, but it is nevertheless morally unacceptable and socially
>destructive, undoubtedly counter to our ultimate vision of what human
>society should be. These reasons ladies and gentlemen for me to believe
>that we need to re-evaluate our approach to punishing fellow comrades, even
>our most hated enemies.
>
>I hate to be philosophical about all this, ladies and  gentlemen but what
>is paramount, I think, is that we try to be more open-minded and open the
>lines of communication, making room for tolerance and sound judgement in
>the process, as opposed to rushing to judgement. In short, treat eachother
>as adults and NOT miniature adults. Let those who break these rules of
>ethics offer their apologies rather than trying to castigate them into
>oblivion, or solitary confinement. No one is perfect. Show me one who is
>perfect and I'll show you what a pathological liar he or she is .The G_L
>approach to punishment, like any other approach to punishment, cannot
>really be separated from its understanding of human psychology (especially
>motivation and intention); of the relationship between the individual and
>society; and, last but not least, of its vision of human possibility, of
>what a good life is or can be for some of these list members, if given the
>(second, maybe third)chances they deserve. That is it . I done.
>
>                                                  Au Revoir,
>                                                  George Sarr (Real Name)
>                                                  Mr Makaveli ( Alias)
>
>
>
>
>From: Ansumana Kujabi <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: On The Gambia-L Rules
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Date: Jun 21, 2001
>
>
>SAUL:
>
>Thanks 1000 times for your input. As always you have approached this
>situation maturely. Frankly, the gang of two have STRETCHED THE ENVELOPE of
>the GAM-L RULES. It all boiled down to EMOTIONS. Why monitor Kujabi, whiles
>we have the KEBBA JOKES and ESSAS putting us through hell. I was kinda
>surprised to see the people keep monitoring me intensely since FEBRUARY
>2001; absolutely pathetic. This will NEVER EVER distract me from hitting my
>points home. This is MY CITIZEN DUTY to give it all I have in the struggle
>in fighting for the RESTORATION of DEMOCRACY and the RULE of LAW back home.
>Our beautiful country, which had been FIRM FRIENDS with the International
>Community is NOW ISOLATED  as a result of the REBEL GOVERNMENT we have at
>home. But the MORON'S DAYS are numbered. Therefore, as HISTORY always
>teaches us great lessons, one should be REALLY VERY CAREFUL and PRUDENT in
>the way you go about your life, otherwise, when that returns, a day when we
>will all gather to account for our actions, we will have some in our midst
>who will look the other way; or they might even regret their actions that
>day. To that end, I think there should be a LEVELED PLAYING FIELD for every
>contributor in this forum, period. God Bless.
>
>Ansumana
>
>
>
>
>Gambians Online " Designed With The Gambian People In Mind"
>                http://www.gambiansonline.com
>
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