Mr.Asbjorn:
If I look for the word "Asbjorn Nordam" in the webster dictionary, It will say, an
honest, objective and truth driven.
Thanks
Musa Jeng
Asbjørn Nordam wrote:
> Mr. Gassama,
> you express my long time sentiments, when it comes to debate in The Gambia,
> or on the Gambia-L. And I could not have said it better than you do.
>
> A year ago I asked why is it, that some people on the list praise and
> support each other, and express that those, who are not for are against. Why
> is it that in debates some have a tendency to force each other to the point
> of no return to a win-or-loose-situation. We must agree that we donīt see
> everything the same way around, and then what ? Why this wish for calling it
> all black or white. Things are not always black or white, letīs try and
> compromise sometimes, or just accept that we donīt agree.
>
> I also by coincident met people I only knew from the Gambia-L and that was
> really thrilling and a very good experience.
>
> Let me try in my poor english to give an impression, and risk an eye, how I,
> when it comes to the Gambia or gambian issues, am not only for or against.
>
> I have travelled since 78 to the Gambia and I like/love the country and most
> of the people I meet. I want to see the country developed, the faster the
> better. Like I try and learn and understand the people, history and
> tradition, I also try to understand different kinds of problem, from the
> ones inside a family, a compound, a village, up to the national and
> international ones.
>
> I accept if the people has got enough, they try to get rid of their
> leaders, hopefully by ballot and not by a military take over as in The
> Gambia. But now itīs been like that, I can not change that situation, so I
> look forward and I do hope for the best. As in the Jawara days I did not see
> every thing black or white, itīs the same how I see the present president
> and government.
>
> When I pay visits to The Gambia I am glad that there are so many progresses
> going on. Just to mention a few:
> I am happy that the country a few years back got a TV-station, to inform,
> educate the people, to give a platform for gambian culture. But at the same
> time I could criticise the lack of thorough journalism on politics,
> national and local, like as a state-medium it should act more balanced.
> And even you have a state-supported news-station itīs important to
> accept/protect other private radio-stations, news-magazines etc. rights to
> also broadcast news.
>
> I am happy that there are so many schools build all over the country and old
> schools are renovated and more classrooms added. The numbers of students
> they are forced to take in at the Gambia College has increased dramatically
> over the past few years. They are stressed to the outmost out there at the
> college, but that is good.
> At the same time I am critical to the jobsituation for the teachers, the
> lack of materials in the educational system from top to bottom, but I see
> it as a step in the right direction. The same with the university
> programmes. I can find many things to criticise in those programmes but
> again itīs a step, and you must as a poor country with limited resources
> take it step by step.
>
> Iīm glad that the government has given free education a higher priority, by
> letting the girls education be free. Hopefully it will soon also be free for
> the boys. I have often said itīs too expensive for an ordinary family to
> send their children into school. Many of my friends can not afford the high
> costs.
>
> I like the "fight" with the infra structure, to build more roads, bridges
> and maybe also ferries. Get water and electricity supply up all over, and
> better the sanitary. The priority could be otherwise but I find it OK.
> And I have noticed that there is a plan to make The Gambia the gateway to
> Westafrica both in producing, transport, technology etc. I wait impatient to
> see it started and running.
>
> I like to see the struggle to find a way to be self-sufficient on
> food-production. I should like it to have a higher priority and based more
> on co-operatives , but again I do see many progress.
> But I certainly look for more job-intensive fabrics, so many families could
> earn a living, when a person could get a job in that sector. Donīt wait for
> the private sector, combine it with the state-enterprise.
>
> I like to see building of clinics and hospitals, even I at the same time
> find the lack of fundamental resources of medicine alarming. Last time in
> the Gambia I had to take two of my friends from clinic to clinic to get them
> the best treatment against malaria, one friend nearly died.
>
> I blame the authorities and organisations, that there is a trend to ask for
> high academic degrees in jobs which could easily be handled by gambians
> educated in the gambia. When I read some of the job-descriptions when
> advertising for applicants, I think itīs crazy to offer such a salary on an
> university-degree candidate for a simple job as advisor, cashier, etc.
>
> I find it OK that the president and his party take some credit for many of
> these progresses, but I donīt like that he/they campaign as if those parts
> of the country, which are critical to him/the party should face
> destiny/fortune/revenge and not get the same progresses.
>
> And although I like the speed of all this I fear for the state budget and
> the tax-burden. Those who is going to pay for the progresses is the gambian
> people itself. And I should like the ordinary gambians to understand how
> "politics" are like. Those infrastructures are not god-given, gifts from
> president/APRC, but from themselves to themselves. That the state-budget is
> just a big-scale of a family-budget. There has to be income balanced with
> expenditures. And there are different political solutions to such
> development and progresses. In my opinion many politicians in the country
> fail to teach their supporters the differences between the different
> parties. It often ends up to be mostly a personal question, a man to man
> election, and not an election on principals. That is what I think fails in
> the political tradition, but I do hope this is also just a step forward.
>
> What I donīt like is the way the "control" of the country is build up. I
> have said it many times - I donīt like the road stops, the intimidation and
> harassment one can see daily in the streets practised by some men in
> uniform. To me they behave badly and not disciplined.
> I donīt like the reports of torture we from time to time gets from people
> and media. To me there is no excuse to torture other people. No mater if
> itīs in Denmark, USA, Chile, Balkan, The Gambia.
> And itīs embarrassing because The Gambia host the African center of human
> rights. Which on the other hand I think we should be proud of.
>
> In my opinion it is the police, who should take care of daily law and order,
> criminal acts of any kind, traffic, custom and boarder control. Not military
> or paramilitary nor NIA. The military should not be seen in the streets.
> They live their life in the barracks and are trained in combat, to protect
> The Gambia and itīs people from outside, and if possible serve
> internationally in peacekeeping forces, f.in. in Africa. I think there is
> great need to form an african peace-keeping force to solve conflicts inside
> Africa, And The Gambia could certainly take a position here. (Like small
> Denmark do in UN-peacekeeping forces all over) The national guard could be a
> special trained force of elite-soldiers, but they should behave very very
> disciplined.
> The NIA should certainly concentrate itīs activities on states-enemies, but
> under political control. And I certainly donīt like the reports of people
> tortured under the authorities (NIA, Police, military) custody, even I know
> you can find the same here in the west. Like I criticise it here I want to
> do it out there.
>
> People in uniform seen in the streets should only be policemen. If a
> military is on his way to/from job and he is wearing a uniform, he should
> wear it correctly. I have seen too many men wearing a uniform in disorder.
> If a man employed in the army is on duty f.in. around the celebration of the
> re-election of the president, I expect those men to behave very, very
> orderly. Not dancing around, not cheering and saluting if not ordered. If
> those who ran around that day and night were not on duty, they should not
> wear uniform. In civilian clothes they could as their neighbour celebrate
> that victory.
>
> I also think that the legal system could be transformed a bit and the
> reputation of the courts established to a higher level of independence. A
> clear distinction between the three powers.
> You find the european system practised in the courts, even you have another
> african system, which I think could run together with the "imported" one.
> There is an african tradition that conflict are handled locally, where many
> people are involved. If one has done something to another person it involves
> in your traditional system the families on both sides to find a solution.
> Many people come up with their idea of solution, and later on you find the
> one which is accepted. Some sort of local tribunal. In our system you only
> involve the persons who are directly involved, witnesses. Later the
> court/the judge enforce his/the laws sentence on you. I think that in small
> offences you could try and involve local tribunals, and let the courts only
> step in when itīs more serious. You spend too much time in courts to get too
> little out of it. And many of your judges are not gambians but from outside.
> They donīt know of the gambian society and they will judge out of that
> limited knowledge.
>
> I certainly donīt like the political system. The british/american system
> where the winner takes it all, is a very special form of democracy, which in
> my opinion leads to tendencies of small "wars", very partisan campaigns,
> when the election is coming up. The seats in a parliament should reflect the
> total numbers of voters cast on the different parties nationwide. Then you
> can have constituencies to ensure that the parliament-members also come from
> and represent different parts of a country. This is a general opinion of
> mine and has nothing specific to do with The Gambia.
>
> But I am critical towards some of the parties donīt work on the political
> issues or agenda between elections. Nor do they try and give next generation
> of leaders in the party a platform, which leads to lack of successors when
> the old guard leaves the stage light. That a party boycott parliament
> elections and give away the daily platform for political speeches, the
> chance to speak up in the parliament, that is one thing I really donīt
> understand. But that is maybe because Iīm ignorant. I certainly donīt like
> the buying of voters cards, or the tradition of giving gifts to your
> supposed supporters after winning. If you have rice to distribute then give
> it to the people in need, and not to those who you think were your dedicated
> supporters.
>
> I donīt know the president personally, and I will not judge him as a person.
> But what I should like to see is more of a FATHER-figure. He is the
> president for all gambians, the whole of The Gambia, and he should behave
> like that. Even he is out of a party and has a specific political platform
> and program to take out. I will not say that you all should love or like
> him, but he should in my opinion try and act more to win respect from all.
> And he should also try and talk to our hearts. You could see he was happy
> the day the result came in and he was re-elected and he took a short ride
> out of the residence. Why should he just few days later threat people in
> public jobs, that if they have not voted for him, they were not able to be
> loyal and serve him and the state, and should fear for their jobs ?
> Why not use his authority to solve the situation after the april-incident,
> instead of putting forward the indemnity-act, which should serve all
> involved in crimes. I think he should take the reports and declare that
> something ran out of order, someone failed his duties and dismiss those in
> charge that day. Get it over with. And then let the boys who are now laying
> suffering at RV get the treatment and operations needed no matter where and
> what it costs be it in America, Russia, Egypt. And compensate the families.
> Let the student leader return and rest. To risk something, to risk your arm,
> that is a step towards reconciliation.
> And if the state has nothing important in the Dumo-trial, get it over with.
> Let the men free instead of playing a game that first one then the other
> prosecutor is ill. Get forward, try and do something. The truth and the
> compensation will always be disputed no matter what solution. So if I was
> the president I should try and get forward without that millstone round my
> neck.
> History will tell and judge, so no matter what he does there will be some
> who said he stood behind all this. I donīt see it as weakness or acceptance
> of any guilt to try and get forward. Thatīs how "cool and cruel" politics is
> and as I say, history will judge by the end.
>
> Like he is trying to do something towards former president Jawara. Try and
> get the old man back to a pensioners life in the Gambia. The old man is
> Gambian history no matter what you all think he did well or not so well or
> badly. He is your first president after independence, a vet who became your
> president. He belongs to your history and I think that President Jammeh do
> the right thing, get the man home under certain conditions.
> The President is taking a risk here. He really risk an arm. The man he
> forced out of office, he now try and get backk home. I want him to behave
> with the same courage on the DUMO case and the april incident.
>
> What I like is the priority he seems to give the women, in society, in
> public jobs, in politics. And many women love him for that attitude. And I
> think that is a good strategy. Itīs seen here in the west to become the best
> strategy to development, support the women out there.
>
> As a toubab from the rich west, I would like Jammeh to balance his
> well-placed critics towards "the west" with a more compromising attitude
> realizing that we are not all evil, new colonialists, some want to help and
> certainly itīs not us alone to dictate the conditions for the help. Be
> sceptic YES, but understand that we are many people out here, who want to
> put pressure on our leaders when it comes to helping developing and poor
> countries. And we must form a strategic alliance. We donīt want to take
> control.
>
> But generally the tax-payers here in Denmark want to see that the money they
> pay, is given to people in need. If possible people up here would go and
> hand the money over directly to the women in the african villages. That is
> the control we want, and reports that the money is well spend, or we have to
> do better. We also want to tell the leaders in certain countries which
> produce a long trail of refugees, that there must be a reason why many
> people wants to leave their homes to ensure life, and we ask such a
> government/leadership to look very critical into the reasons and try to do
> better, IF our taxpayers money should go and help building infrastructure in
> such a country. Itīs not that we want to dictate what kind of democracy a
> country should have or we only want to support an opposition, but try and
> ask why so many of your citizens flee.
>
> I would like the president to try and understand such arguments. He could
> direct so much taxpaid money from the west if he really wanted and without
> compromising on principles. Instead itīs poor people in Poland or Ukraine he
> ask for help, and we here in western Europe run several development
> programmes in both Poland and Ukraine. Itīs not logic.
>
> Iīm positive to the presidents vision that he maybe could get success being
> some kind of a mediator in african conflicts, and maybe also get support for
> his ideas of renewing the OAU-vision. If he get success he will set a new
> standard of leadership. But I think he is balancing on the line which can
> lead to a fine leader, but it can also turn out that we will only remember
> him as a tyrant. Itīs a difficult balance, and history will judge him. I
> think that if he plays his cards well, show he is a human being who cares,
> also for those who are maybe not full hearted behind him he can be liked if
> not loved by many gambians.
>
> This is how I personally see some of the things in The Gambia. Not always
> black and white, positive and negative. In some perspectives I am for the
> President and APRC, like I for some reasons also are very critical towards
> the politics he and APRC stands for. I should like to see him turn more as
> a father-figure for the country instead of using his whip so much and give
> fine presents some places, he should rule fair, as the father of all
> gambians, also for the 35 % percent who preferred another person to lead the
> country. If he is not careful I think he can easily turn into a tyrant.
>
> In politics my sympathy is always with the people, and because I grow up as
> a student and took my political standards in the 60īties Iīm still more for
> PDOIS than for UDP, sorry - but again this is not black and white.
>
> I will stop here, as usual it became too long, but me heart is always in The
> Gambia, and I like the Gambia-L to get information, to learn from the
> debates, to form my opinion on what to think and do. Keep up all of you.
> Copenhagen february 18.th
> Asbjørn Nordam
>
> on 16/02/02 18:38, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> > As the political beliefs and positions of the various individuals that have
> > not taken an "everything or nothing" view with regard to the government in The
> > Gambia are very diverse, I think it is misleading to attribute blanket
> > statements to them. Statements have been made during the past few days that
> > are generally attributed to those who do not belong to the "everything or
> > nothing" group and these statements do not in the least represent my position.
> > I can keep quiet and be guilty by association, or I can offer clarification
> > with regard to the various misconceptions.
>
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