Hi Everyone,
Again, I am sorry for any misunderstanding. I try very hard to make people
understand me. I did not try to suggest that Hamadi was trying to glorify
Mobutu. Of course, he wasn't. That's why I wrote,'I take the point about
Mobutu', meaning that I accept that he did change his name or names. What I
wrote later had nothing to do with the fact he changed his name. I had
already accepted that he did.
In the case of Yassin, I thought it came from Hamadi, because of this
paragraph :
PS. For the sake of clarification I think that Almami, Alkali,
>>>Alpha,
>>>Asiatou, Boubacarr/Babucarr, Sana (Hassan), Sainey (Alhuseiny)and Yassin
>>>are Arabic and not traditional Gambian names. Our Islamic scholars and
>>>Arabophones will agree with me on this.
If it was not from him, then I'm sorry. Even if it was but he could not
remember mentioning it(I know what e-mail can do to people, including
myself)let us move on. What I meant about 'Yassin' was that it is one of the
names of the Prophet, and should be honoured by Muslims, at least. But when
it is used in insults and jokes, then one begins to wonder. That was my
point. Incidentally, I also have friends, relatives and neighbours, Muslims
and Christians, who are called Yassin or Jaal, in the case of the Wolof. I
do not have any problem with the name, but I'm not sure where it originated.
Cheers.
Momodou
>From: Hamadi Banna <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: COLLECTING TYPICAL GAMBIAN NAMES
>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:10:35 PDT
>
>Mr. Njie:
>
>I think it is indisputable that a name is a question of choice. A person
>can call himself whatever he chooses to even if it translates into
>something
>negative in another person's language or mind. I think the issue raised by
>Saiks was significant for me in one important aspect: the cultural
>ramifications of disrobing what is inherently African for something
>exclusively non-African. As an African I'm bound to respond to such
>issues
>and of course I know that my opinion is only mine. I only expressed my
>personal opinion to the matter raised by Saiks, which in turn was his
>personal opinion. It's a debate that gives some of us a good lesson in
>anthropology or ethnology to be more precise.
>
>You seem to insinuate that I was glorifying Mobutu by making reference to
>fact that he went so far as to dictate what names his people should carry.
>My conscience would not blind me to the more visible side of Mobutu: the
>dictator he was. My example was an indication of the fervour expressed by
>certain politicians to re-Africanize a specific element of their culture,
>which in this case is baptismal names. How they went about it is a
>completely different matter.
>
>Finally, I did not add Yassin to the list somebody else did. You may go
>through your archives. I don't understand what you mean by you "find it
>very hard to believe that it is the name of the Prophet that is being used
>in this manner". I have come across Gambian males and females called
>Yassin, especially among the Fulas. Perhaps, a good example is the wife of
>a prominent Gambian businessman in Fajara called Yassin; she is Wolof.
>Now,
>if you find this "hard to believe" because Yassin "is sometimes associated
>with unsavoury language" in Wolof I can't see what I should clarify here.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>>From: momodou njie <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: COLLECTING TYPICAL GAMBIAN NAMES
>>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:32:08 PDT
>>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>I agree with Hamadi that this debate has preoccupied the minds of Africans
>>and, indeed, people from most parts of the world, for a very long time. I
>>also agree that Nkrumah was perfectly entitled to call himself by whatever
>>name he preferred. As far as I could remember, he was an African first and
>>a
>>Ghanaian, second. I also remember when Ngugi raised this debate many years
>>ago, when he changed his name from James Ngugi to Ngugi wa Thiong'o.( Also
>>a
>>Gambian, formerly called Lawrence Bruce-Oliver changed his to Goree Ndiaye
>>or something like that). I also heard the response from other African
>>intellectuals, most notably, Professor Eustace Palmer of Fourah Bay
>>College.
>>Laurence Sterne in his book, 'Tristram Shandy' also looks at the subject
>>of
>>names briefly. I am therefore aware of most, if not all, the arguments put
>>forward by the various schools of thought.
>>
>>
>>However, the question, for me, boils down to choice. If people feel they
>>are
>>Gambian first and African second, and prefer 'Gambian' or 'African' names,
>>they are perfectly entitled to use those names. If, on the other hand,
>>people feel that they are Muslims first and Gambians/Africans second,(or
>>Badibbungka first and Gambian, second) what right do the rest of the
>>people
>>have to tell them that they are wrong? Let us not forget that some of the
>>Ethnic Groups in The Gambia/Africa may well have Arab origins. As I
>>indicated before, the question is more complicated than some of us think.
>>
>>
>>Whether some people think 'Gambian' names have pagan connotations, it is
>>up
>>to them. I know there are both types of name in a single family. For
>>example, one can have both Malick and Saloum in the same family. I do not
>>believe their parents, or even they themselves, believe for one moment
>>that
>>one is 'Pagan' and the other 'Islamic'. They say it is 'chossaan'. What
>>some
>>Arabs and Christians thought about these names is another matter. They are
>>entitled to their views, even if many of us think otherwise.
>>
>>
>>I take the point about Mobutu, although I wished he had channelled his
>>engergies and resources in projects that benefited his impoverished
>>people.
>>Probably more than any other African leader, Mobutu helped develop these
>>'foreign' countries by keeping millions of £s in their banks. I think it
>>can
>>be safely concluded that changing his name and forcing others to follow
>>suit
>>was simply a gimmick, a publicity stunt. The present President of Zaire is
>>called Laurent-Désiré Kabila, and one of the rebel leaders is Jean-Pierre
>>Bemba. Joseph Cardinal Malula was for many years the head of the
>>(catholic?)church of Zaire, and a/ the son of Patrice Lumumba is called
>>François-Eméry Lumumba Tolenga. What is the fundamental difference here
>>between Zaire and The Gambia regarding names?
>>
>>
>>I cannot comment on the other names Hamadi mentions in his posting, but I
>>still have doubts about Yassin. If we are to go by the list I posted
>>yesterday, Yaaseen is one of the names of the Prophet(SAW). Needless to
>>say,
>>he was not a woman. In The Gambia, especially among the Wolof, Yassin is
>>sometimes associated with unsavoury language, and is commonly used in
>>insults or jokes. I therefore find it very hard to believe that it is the
>>name of the Prophet that is being used in this manner. I suggest Hamadi
>>comes up with a clarification. I do not see anything like it in his
>>posting.
>>Cheers.
>>
>>Momodou
>>
>>
>>>From: Hamadi Banna <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: COLLECTING TYPICAL GAMBIN NAMES
>>>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:26:58 PDT
>>>
>>>The debate about using traditional African names in lieu of Western or
>>>Arab
>>>ones has for a long time now caught the attention of Africanists,
>>>intellectuals and politicians alike. If I'm not wrong the late Kwame
>>>Nkrumah preferred to go by his traditional rather than his christian
>>>baptissimal name, if he had one for that matter. The late Mobutu Sese
>>>Seko
>>>Kuku Wazabanga (whatever in the world that means) prohibited Zaireans the
>>>use of Western names.
>>>
>>>In The Gambia, as in most other African countries people have a tendency
>>>to
>>>use a Western or Arabic name to baptise their children. There is a
>>>general
>>>belief that African names have an echo of paganism tied to them and that
>>>they should always be superimposed by a "biblical"/Jewish, Greek or
>>>"Islamic"/Arabic name. Often it is from the latter category that a name
>>>is
>>>chosen for the new and it is this name that is recorded in the birth
>>>certificate of the child. Some christian denominations would even go so
>>>far
>>>as to add another name after confirmation.
>>>
>>>A philospher once said that a peoples' religion will always carry
>>>elements
>>>of the culture of the founders of that religion. In pre-islamic Arabia
>>>as
>>>in pre-christian Europe the names that we so commonly consider holy and
>>>sometimes sacriligious are the same names that were used by the
>>>idol-worshippers of those eras. I can bet that Abu Bakr = father of the
>>>cattle, Al-ahssan = the best or Peter and Paul do not bear more
>>>significance
>>>than Ngone, Samba and Demba in the eyes of God.
>>>
>>>Whatever the reason advanced for borrowing Arabic and Western names to
>>>baptise our children (when we have an endless list of our own names is it
>>>has just been proofed in this List), we cannot ignore the fact a peoples'
>>>culture is their best I.D. in the arena of nations.
>>>
>>>PS. For the sake of clarification I think that Almami, Alkali, Alpha,
>>>Asiatou, Boubacarr/Babucarr, Sana (Hassan), Sainey (Alhuseiny)and Yassin
>>>are Arabic and not traditional Gambian names. Our Islamic scholars and
>>>Arabophones will agree with me on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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