Jabou,

I just woke up from my nap redying myself for an evening of Champions League
football when I saw this.

Isn't it sad how all who haven't done their home work before jumping into
this conflict want one way or the other, to make it an issue about Mugabe or
about democracy?

The land issue at the core of this conflict is always conveniently avoided.
Democracy in slavery? The peasants of Zimbabwe echo a clarion No! Now and
tomorrow.

Regards,

Kabir.


On 4/10/07, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Ginny,
>
> Those of us who dare defend the rights of Zimbabweans to reclaim their
> land and point out the fact that the West is waging a  propaganda war to
> bring down the economy of Zimbabwe through their vicious and oft used tool
> of economic sanctions and using Mugabe's record as an excuse for the
> problems that their actions have propagated because he is the one initiating
> those land reforms they hate so much, also assume that others are
> intelligent enough to be able to differentiate between the ideal we are
> supporting and any other political issues that some of the people of
> Zimbabwe may have with the government of Robert Mugabe.
>
> How did you ever arrive at the conclusion that just because some of us
> support the land reform ideals of Mugabe, therefore we are supportive of
> whatever other political issues he and his opponents may have? How did you
> arrive at the conclusion that you know for a fact that all the root causes
> of all the problems that have arisen in Zimbabwe are the fault of Mugabe and
> what all the factors that contribute to those problems are?
>
> The people of Zimbabwe have been suffering and humiliated during apartheid
> in the former Rhodesia and after independence  with utter silence from the
> very same people now pretending to care so much but it was not until the
> issue of returning land to the rightful owners became an issue that all the
> do-gooders who are out filling the airwaves suddenly became "concerned"
> about the plight of the people of Zimbabwe.
>
> Jabou Joh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Zimbabwe
>
>
> I can agree that we don't want neo-colonialism rearing its ugly head
> in Africa, and perhaps we can applaud the leaders for "standing up to
> the West", as it were! However, what about Mugabe's treatment of his
> own people? Or is this this "just lies and propaganda from the
> Western media"?
>
> I find it interesting that many can spend all day on here talking
> about Yahya Jammeh and everything he has done, yet, from what I
> understand, Mugabe has done some of the same things, i.e., clamping
> down on the opposition, stifling the media, etc.
>
> So are we saying that economic sanctions, pressure from the West,
> etc., give Mugabe the right to trample on his own people? "just
> becuase he's getting even with the west"? There is just something
> about that I don't understand! Because what is to stop Jammeh from
> using the same excuses?
>
>
> How is Jammeh a villain and Mugabe a hero? There is just something I
> don't get here! And to me, there is a difference between economic
> sanctions, and the West's attempt to influence things on the ground in
> Zimbabwe. However, just because of that, we can't brush aside
> anything Mugabe has done and make him out to be some sort of a hero
> either.
>
> I'll also say that perhaps I am misinformed, and perhaps Mugabe might
> mean well for his people, and I'm just not aware of it.
>
> Funny that those of us who have a "Mugabe is not the hero" opinion, or
> any other opinion *different* from the initial message, we are told we
> have agendas, masters, and can't think for ourselves. Hmmm, perhaps
> we are misinfomred? Perhaps some information might be in order,
> instead of questioning our motives, etc.? "oh we know what their
> agenda is", etc., what good is that going to do?
>
> In short, "the West" might indeed be worng an dproblem is, but Mugabe
> is wrong to! I don't see any heroes in the problems plauging Zimbabwe
> right now!
>
> However, if I'm wrong, I'd sure like to be informed as much.
>
> Ginny
>
>
>
> On 4/5/07, Cornelius Edward Hamelberg <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Kabir,
> >
> > You are not talking to a blac and proud idiot.
> > >
> > > From: Kabir <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Date: 2007/04/06 fr AM 02:22:37 CEST
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Ämne: Re: Zimbabwe
> > >
> > > Are you serious? You think I give a damn who you are related to, whose
> > > company you keep or what books you have read? What use is your
> familiarity
> > > with colonial history or the books you have read when you cannot get a
> > point
> > > as simple as honouring an agreement signed at the dawn of independence
> to
> > > return stolen land?
> > >
> > > Keep on googling... At the end of the day if you haven't learnt better
> > than
> > > to take the side of a double-crossing thief you would not have come
> far.
> > >
> > > To disregard the fact that thousand of families are suffering daily
> > because
> > > the economically powerful relatives of the thief gang up and demand
> that
> > > unless the thief retains the stolen property they will strangulate
> their
> > > small economy and make them continue to catch hell.
> > >
> > > To disregard that fact that when the aggrieved party, after decades of
> > > suffering they could tolerate no longer, mobilized to fight against
> their
> > > oppressor thieves, got an agreement from the thieves and their
> relatives
> > > that the stolen property will be returned only to be nakedly and
> > shamelessly
> > > double-crossed.
> > >
> > > To side with the thief when a fight ensues over returning the stolen
> > > property - a fight in the the thief is far more well-off than the
> victim
> > and
> > > does not even need the stolen property for his continued survival -
> but
> > > continue to highlight and trumpet the fact that agents of the thieves
> have
> > > been dealt broken noses and bruises.
> > >
> > > When you cannot see beyond the broken noses and bruises and ask why
> the
> > > parties are fighting in the first place, or when you are told why they
> are
> > > fighting you elect to ignore the facts of history and bury your head
> in
> > the
> > > sand because for one reason or another you cannot fathom why Black
> people
> > > would stand up for their rights, especially against Europeans.
> > >
> > > That to me is to say that Black people are not equal or don't deserve
> the
> > > same rights and treatment as all other people; that Black people
> should
> > just
> > > let Europeans continue to control their economies and be content with
> > > whatever crumbs come their way.
> > >
> > > If that is your justification for labelling me "Black Radical" you
> must be
> > > the most clueless Black man that ever lived. Googling "Kabir" won't
> help
> > > you; googling "Mugabe" won't help you either. Nor will highlighting
> all
> > the
> > > symptoms of the Zimbabwe crisis. Get to the bottom of the issue, the
> Land
> > > Issue for which Zimbabweans shed their blood only for your idols to
> pull
> > > this big double-cross that they have been making attempts for years to
> > > camouflage with lies and deception.
> > >
> > > That is what I am interested in. Robert Mugabe is just and individual.
> It
> > is
> > > the policies that he stands for that I support, it could have been any
> > other
> > > Zimbabwean for that matter. As far as they continue to demand the
> stolen
> > > land back we are on the same page Your ilk have been so blinded by
> Western
> > > progagand that you cannot see beyond the person of Mugabe at the
> bigger
> > > picture: the rights of Zimbabweans to regain land that was stolen at
> gun
> > > point; daylight robbery!
> > >
> > > You can go to all the higher institutions of learning in the world, at
> the
> > > end of the day if what you have learnt does not avail you the
> wherewithal
> > to
> > > recocnise injustice it would all have been in vain, naught!
> > >
> > > So save yourself the trouble "Mr Hemelberg," for I don't see what you
> > could
> > > possibly come with to defend this indefensible act of deceit and
> betrayal.
> > > The very reason you have been avoiding the point at the centre of this
> > whole
> > > saga, the land issue is that the land thieves and those fighting their
> > > battles in all the international stage have not given you a plausible
> > > justification to argue with. So unless you address the land issue I'm
> not
> > > going to waste my time engaging you, for whatever you may come with I
> can
> > > get from the source, your masters!
> > >
> > > Kabir.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/6/07, Cornelius Edward Hamelberg <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kabir,
> > > >
> > > > http://www.statehouse.gm/tijankabbah-visit_030407.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://news.sl/drwebsite/publish/article_20055173.shtml
> > > >
> > > > I will give you the attention that you deserve, but right now, I'm
> > > > otherwise
> > > > engaged. I am familiar with (African )colonial history in some
> > > > depth: India,
> > > > North America, Australia, Algeria, Ghana, Kenya, South Africa,
> Congo,
> > > > Nigeria, Guinea, of course Zimbabwe, you name it and people like
> Walter
> > > > Rodney and even the type of ideas that you are likely to find in the
> > Race
> > > > and
> > > > History website. Apart from that I have kept the company of some of
> > these
> > > > people. So please excuse me for the next couple of hours and ?
> respect -
> > > > let
> > > > me return to give you the answer that should engage you, so that
> > although
> > > > you may be Sir Mr. Black Radical, I won't let you down.
> > > > My second brother (I have three) is married to a Zimbabwean whose
> mother
> > > > is
> > > > Boer from South Africa and whose father is Black and from Zimbabwe.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.raceandhistory.com/Zimbabwe/
> > > >
> > > > Later.
> > > >
> > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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> > >
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