Tony & Saiks:
Well said. With all due respect to Mr. Jabang and not withstanding his
other informative postings on prayer(s), Islam etc. this one is a little
troubling. These Islamic scholars like some other scholars, often have a
vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Unfortunately, for some
of these scholars, religion is often used as an ideological tool to
mystify, justify and ultimately legitimize unequal gender relations. And
religion often has nothing to do with it. In other words, they use
religion as some men use sexism, racism and other "isms" to maintain
power over others.
By the use of these scholar's work, is Mr. Jabang in effect agreeing
with them, or is he using their work to reinforce his own without making
it explicit. Just wondering.
Abdoulaye
No justice, no peace!
Abdoulaye
Tony Cisse wrote:
>
> Jaajef Saiks,
>
> This is an interesting point, and a relevant one, although I am not sure that I agree with your interpretation of Modou Mbye's posting. When Modou quotes Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shaybah, Abu Ishaaq al-Jawzjaani
> and Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah as, saying " that it is the woman's duty to serve her husband
> within the bounds of what is reasonable and as other women who are like her serve husbands who are like him", the question must then be put as to what is the measure of "reasonableness" and who are her peers (i.e. women like her), by which her behaviour is measured?
>
> I make no claim to being a scholar of Islam, and can therefore only interpret/understand this from my own point of view and experience. I would read this as in fact saying that what is "reasonable" and "customary among people like her and her husband" is inextricable bound up with what the actual realities of their situation are. Reasonableness, as far as it can ever be defined is really only what is appropriate in any given situation, and therefore it's definition can change, as can customs " according to circumstances, time and place". Following this, using your example of a woman going out to work whilst the husband is unemployed, what would be reasonable? and what would be "customary" amongst partners (and their peers) in similar circumstances? I beleive that under these conditions it could well be "reasonable" that, for example the husband occupies himself with cooking and washing, and that it would be seen as quite unreasonable for the woman to go to work AND do all the domestic work. Indeed "custom
>
> This posting can indeed be read as a warning, and education, to those husband who choose to misinterpret (or through unawareness) of religion as an excuse to mistreat and oppress their wives. In the past others used the name of the religion to justify not allowing their daughters to go to school, or in some societies to justify forced arranged marrigaes, against the will of one or both of the concerned.
>
> I beleive that it is important to recognise the implications of what has been written here. Indeed in the conclusion of the posting, it is shown that the interpretation of the relevant hadeeth, is that either:
>
> serving the husband and taking care of the house by the woman is VOLUNTARY
>
> or
>
> that even if it is interpreted as a duty, the husband should treat it as voluntary
>
> This I beleive constitutes a challenge to all men to examine their behaviour. I wonder how many men, Muslims, non-Muslims, Aethists, Christians or even so-called pro-femminist "new men" really accept this IN PRACTICE, (even though they might "in theory"). After all even Karl Marx left his wife to struggle to look after and feed the children whilst he spent his days at the British Library reading room, and Che GUEVARA left the mother of his children to support and bring them up one her own whilst he was involved in the Liberation struggle.
>
> I think that we should not allow our own beliefs, prejudices, and indeed use/interpretation of language, to obscure our vision of the real essence of meaning.
>
> No hard feeling to anyone, these are just my own views.
>
> Yeenduleen ak jaama
>
> Tony
>
> ~#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> saiks samateh <[log in to unmask]> 1/July/1999 01:44pm >>>
> Momodou Jabang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Modou Mbye,
>
> I think you are just trying to provoke once again,and I would have love to
> know why you think this article is relevant.Is it that you are trying to tell
> that it is not wrong for my wife to be my servant,doing the washing,cooking
> etc.If this is your hidden intention then sorry you did not make it.
> I can see that you are trying to make a point that the comstom that was should
> be the departing point for such a relationship.I dont know who is your
> wife,but let me put it this way;The day you return back to the Gambia and find
> out that there is no longer a job for you and that your wife is at work,she
> has a secured jobb.Would you wait until your wife come back home to do the
> cooking and washing,whiles you chose to go the mosque or any where else just
> to return back home and be serve a meal ?Is this the type of human
> relationship that our generation should be preaching about ?
> You must wake up to understand that we are leaving in another generation that
> demands another form of human relationship and not the enslavement of the
> women.Hope this message gets through.
>
> For Freedom
>
> Saiks
>
> Asalaamu alaikum G-l,
>
> Alhamdulillah wasalaatou wasalaamu ala Nabiyyina Muhammad. Someone asked
> Skeickh Munajjid
>
> Question:
>
> Is it the wife's duty to do all the housework, must the
> husband help her or not? Or is it possible, that her work is
> just a favour to the husband and the family and she will be
> rewarded for it, as if she gave sadaqa?
>
> Answer:
>
> Praise be to Allaah.
>
> The more correct view in this matter is that stated by a number of
> scholars, such as Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shaybah, Abu Ishaaq al-Jawzjaani
> and Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on
> them), who said that it is the womanÆs duty to serve her husband
> within the bounds of what is reasonable and as other women who are
> like her serve husbands who are like him. She also has to take care of
> the house, doing things like cooking and so on, in accordance with
> what is customary among people like her and her husband. This
> differs according to circumstances, time and place, hence Ibn
> Taymiyah said: ôThis varies according to circumstances. What the
> Bedouin wife has to do is not the same as what the urban wife has to
> do.ö
>
> The evidence for this more correct opinion is:
>
> 1.the Hadeeth of al-Bukhaari:
>
> Imaam al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh that Faatimah (may
> Allaah be pleased with her), the daughter of the Prophet
> (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked him for a
> servant. He said, ôShall I not tell you of something that is better
> for you than that? When you go to sleep, say æSubhaan-Allaah
> (Glory be to Allaah)Æ thirty three times, æAl-Hamdu Lillaah
> (praise be to Allaah)Æ thirty three times, and æAllaahu akbar
> (Allaah is Most Great)Æ thirty four times.ö (Saheeh al-Bukhaari bi
> Sharh al-æAsqallaani, part 9/506).
>
> Al-Tabari said, in his commentary on this hadeeth: we may
> understand from this hadeeth that every woman who is able to
> take care of her house by making bread, grinding flour and so
> on, should do so. It is not the duty of the husband if it is the
> custom for women like her to do this themselves.
>
> What we learn from the hadeeth is that when Faatimah (may
> Allaah be pleased with her) asked her father (peace and
> blessings of Allaah be upon him) for a servant, he did not
> command her husband to find her a servant or hire someone to
> do these tasks, or to do these tasks himself. If it were æAliÆs duty
> to do these things, the Prophet (peace and blessings of
> Allaah be upon him) would have commanded him to do them.
>
> 2.The hadeeth of AsmaÆ bint Abi Bakr
>
> Imaam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported in
> his Saheeh that AsmaÆ bint Abi Bakr (may Allaah be pleased
> with her) said: ôI got married to al-Zubayr, and he had no wealth
> on earth and no slaves, nothing except a camel for bringing water
> and his horse. I used to feed his horse and bring water, and I
> used to sew patches on the bucket. I made dough but I was not
> good at baking bread, so my (female) neighbours among the
> Ansaar used to bake bread for me, and they were sincere
> women. I used to bring date pits from al-ZubayrÆs land that the
> Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon
> him) had given to him, carrying them on my head. This land was
> two-thirds of a farsakh away. One day I came, carrying the date
> pits on my head, and I met the Messenger of Allaah (peace
> and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who had a group of the
> Ansaar with him. He called me and made his camel kneel down,
> for me to ride behind him, but I felt too shy to go with the men,
> and I remembered al-Zubayr and his jealousy, for he was the
> most jealous of people. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and
> blessings of Allaah be upon him) realized that I felt shy, so he
> moved on. I came to al-Zubayr and told him, æI met the
> Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon
> him) when I was carrying date pits on my head, and he had a
> group of his companions with him. He made his camel kneel
> down for me to ride with him, but I remembered your jealousy.Æ
> He said, æBy Allaah, it bothers me more that you have to carry
> the date pits than that you should ride with him.Æö AsmaÆ said:
> ôAfter that, Abu Bakr sent me a servant to take care of the
> horse, and it was as if I had been liberated from slavery.ö
> (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath, 9/319).
>
> In the commentary on the hadeeth of AsmaÆ, it says: from this
> incident we may understand that it is the womanÆs duty to take
> care of everything that her husband needs her to take care of.
> This was the opinion of Abu Thawr. Other fuqahaÆ suggested
> that AsmaÆ did this voluntarily and that she was not obliged to do
> it.
>
> Ibn Hajar al-æAsqallaani said: ôIt seems that this incident û
> AsmaÆ carrying the date pitss to help her husband û and other
> similar incidents were the matter of necessity, namely that her
> husband al-Zubayr and other Muslim men were preoccupied
> with jihaad and other things that the Messenger of Allaah
> (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had commanded
> them to do, and they did not have time to take care of domestic
> matters themselves, and could not afford to hire servants to do
> that for them, and there was no one else who could do that apart
> from their womenfolk. So the women used to take care of the
> home and whoever lived in it, so that the men could devote their
> time to supporting Islam.ö
>
> Then he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): ôWhat is more
> likely is that the matter had to do with the customs in that land,
> for customs may vary in this regard.ö
>
> It seems that what Ibn Hajar said is close to the view of those
> who say that the wife has to take care of her husband and the
> home in accordance with the dictates of local custom.
>
> Ibn al-Qayyim said, concerning the story of AsmaÆ: ôWhen the
> Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw
> AsmaÆ with the date pits on her head, and her husband
> al-Zubayr was with her, he did not tell him that she did not have
> to serve him, or that this was unfair to her. He approved of her
> serving him and of all the women among the Sahaabah helping
> their husbands. This is a matter concerning which there is no
> doubt.ö
>
> 3.The hadeeth of Jaabir
>
> The Shaykh of the Muhadditheen, Imaam al-Bukhaari (may
> Allaah have mercy on him) reported in his Saheeh that Jaabir ibn
> æAbd-Allaah said: ôMy father died and left seven daughters, or
> nine daughters. I married a woman who had been previously
> married, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings
> of Allaah be upon him) said to me, æDid you get married, O
> Jaabir?Æ I said, æYes.Æ He asked, æA virgin or a
> previously-married woman?Æ I said, æA previously-married
> woman.Æ He said, æWhy not a young woman so you could play
> and joke with one another?Æ I said, æ æAbd-Allaah [the father of
> Jaabir] has died and left behind daughters, and I would not like
> to bring them someone who is like them, so I got married to a
> woman who can take care of them.Æ He said, æMay Allaah bless
> youÆ or æFair enough.Æö (Saheeh al-Bukhaari bi Sharh al-æAsqallaani,
> vol.9/513).
>
> The evidence derived from the hadeeth of Jaabir is that
> al-Bukhaari introduced this hadeeth under the heading, ôBaab
> æawn al-marÆah zawjahaa fi waladih (Chapter: a woman helping
> her husband with his children)ö.
>
> Imaam Ibn Hajar al-æAsqallaani said, commenting on this
> introduction by al-Bukhaari: ôIt seems that al-Bukhaari derived
> the idea that a woman should take care of her husbandÆs
> children from the fact that the wife of Jaabir took care of his
> sisters; if she should take care of his sisters then it is even more
> befitting that she should take of his children.ö (Saheeh al-Bukhaari
> bi Sharh al-æAsqallaani, vol.9/513).
>
> We can say that the wife should take care of her husband, as
> this is more befitting than her taking care of his sisters or his
> daughters from another wife.
>
> We may also understand from this hadeeth that what was
> customary at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and
> blessings of Allaah be upon him) was that women did not only
> take care of their husbands, they also took care of those who
> were dependent on their husbands and lived in their houses.
>
> The evidence that this understanding is correct is the fact that
> the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be
> upon him) did not tell Jaabir off for his reason for marrying a
> previously-married woman, which was that she could take care
> of his sisters. This indicates that the custom among the Muslims
> at that time dictated that the wife should take care of those who
> were under her husbandÆs care, which means that the wife
> should serve her husband in those matters that are dictated by
> local custom, because the husbandÆs right to be served by his
> wife comes before that of his sisters.
>
> 4.æUrf (custom)
>
> General contracts û including marriage contracts û should be governed
> by the customs that are known among the people, and the custom is
> that the wife should serve her husband and also take care of matters in
> the home. In some societies, the custom is that the wife should take
> care of more than the regular domestic matters.
>
> Imaam al-Qurtubi said, concerning the matter of the wife serving her
> husband and taking care of the home: ôThis has to do with æUrf,
> which is one of the bases of shareeÆah. The women of the Bedouin
> and the desert-dwellers serve their husbands, even looking for fresh
> water and taking care of the animalsàö
>
> What happens nowadays is that the wife û usually û serves her
> husband and takes care of different matters within the home. There
> may be a servant to help her with that if her husband can afford it. If
> the husband knows that the majority of scholars say that it is not
> obligatory for the wife to serve her husband and take care of the
> house, I say that one of the benefits of this may be that he will not go
> to extremes and demand too much of his wife in this regard, and that
> he will not give her a hard time if she falls short, because what she is
> doing is not a duty according to the majority of fuqahaÆ. However,
> even it is a duty according to some of them û and this is what we
> think is more correct û the fact that there is such a difference of
> opinion means that the husband has to look at what she is doing as
> something voluntary rather than obligatory, or something in which the
> scholars differ as to whether it is obligatory, so he should be gentle
> with her if he sees that she is falling short in this regard, and he should
> encourage her and help her to do it.
>
> (al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-MarÆah by æAbd al-Kareem Zaydaan, vol.7/305).
>
> May Allah increase our knowledge of His deen. Allahumma salli wasallim ala
> Nabiyyina Muhammad. Wasalaam.
>
> Modou Mbye
>
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