Saul,
That was generous! U gave up. Note: I did not labbeled U as a backward
"tribalist" I meant the idea and not U as a person.
Peace.
Yahya
>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:34:59 GMT
>
>Yaya,
>
>I give up! Good luck.
>
>Saul
>
>
>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Reply to Saul on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:57:07 PST
>>
>>Saul,
>>
>>If you realy mean what you are saying, why beating the bush then? You
>>rigthly confirmed that your friends where within all these so called
>>"Tribal" groupings.
>>
>>Certainly, am not trying to impress anyone! and am telling you that, am
>>not
>>defending Robinson as a person! am talking about his proposal. You see,
>>maybe you dont know the brother, and I guess that is the reason for all
>>this
>>noise, but I find it strange you talking about me like the way you did,
>>you
>>possibly know me? and if you do you may know aswell that I am not the type
>>who tries to impress people! about what??
>>
>>Well, lets not get imotional. I guess this is nothing personal but a
>>gathering of ideas and thoughts. I am not here to tell you who is Alpha
>>and
>>my knowledge about him. I will not be doing favour to the panell for doing
>>so! however, the impression I got in his piece will be substantial to
>>elaborate on.
>>
>>The brother was concern with the unfortunate ample supply of problems in
>>the
>>Gambia, and atleast came out with some humble ideas about how to solve
>>them.
>>We are certain that the problems will not disapear magically by
>>themselves,
>>they most be solved, or atleast managed! what proposals do you have for
>>that? One thing I know is that, in order to solve these problems we will
>>not put faith in ethnicsm, nor to someone with his/her panaceas, this we
>>shall consider to be naive and irresponsible. Large scale( meaning
>>collectively) ,concerted efforts by determined people should be the work
>>force of this agenda.You believe it or not, your idea and believe cannot
>>suscribe to such!
>>
>>Therefore, Saul! If you are willing or about teach us about our origins,
>>and
>>what we should know, I would be with the opinion that you first develop a
>>process of awareness of the nature and gravity of the challenges in the
>>Gambia, the complex situation and if there is any solution to it! that is
>>what I expect to hear from you not about me personaly or Robinson! that is
>>nonesense!
>>
>>I think any genuine person, will understand that the process of
>>development
>>should avoid the festering of such backward ideas of yours,"Tribal"
>>issues!
>>The proposals Alpha raised came at a time when the expectation became
>>demand
>>on the economic and political machinery that are inevitably unmet, giving
>>rise to frustration and outrage.What examples did you learned from this?
>>experienced! otherwise from other nations who had been in the same
>>situation? What do policy makers do in such situations? To some extend we
>>can take refuge to history! I thought we should have therefore, enhance
>>peaceful and well defined manners with the mind of nation building. That
>>was
>>the essence of that wounderful piece of Alpha! The problem is there, and
>>we
>>shall not try to avoid grappling with those problems we already admit!We
>>should not either, exihibit a childlike faith that a divine intervention
>>will solve them. What am saying is that, we could have by now been
>>discussing other productive questions than this. Well, that seems not to
>>be
>>the case here, as we are permitted to engage in happier pursuits for the
>>sake of writing!
>>
>>Anyway, Saul I am certain that there is a common goal, and without doubt
>>we
>>are all suscribing to a better Gambia, and the appropriation of the forces
>>to build that is nothing more than the development of ideas corresponding
>>to
>>individual way of annalysing. In order to achieve state objectives, I am
>>well aware that we can deffer in policies and believe me there is nothing
>>personal with that, you are entittle to your opinion.But we shall most
>>candidly and deffinately not tollarate the idea of "Tribalism". We are
>>concern with the development of the Gambia, which I believe should
>>strongly be policies based on collectivism including all at large! In this
>>regard,I believe that it is our duty to be betttressed by our obligations,
>>to drive us to try the most prudent action possible, and that is what this
>>panel I supossed is asking about! What do you have in the closset to
>>offer?
>>
>>Saul, please dont be emotional, its the GL that put us together which I
>>thought is a great thing. That we can even discuss something of this
>>nature,
>>that is great! Just be reasonable and dont attack on the person, evaluate
>>on
>>the topic. I dont know you so I guess I cant say anything about you and
>>even
>>if I do, it would not be on the GL. It is not a personal corresponding
>>pannel!
>>
>>Peace brother Saul.
>>Yahya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:03:30 GMT
>>>
>>>Yaya,
>>>
>>>I don't know what's getting into you, but you're holding unto the wrong
>>>vine! We (yourself and I) grew up in one of the most culturally eclectic
>>>communities in the Gambia: SereKunda/Tallinding/LatriKunda. Mandingo,
>>>Jola,
>>>Wollof, Serere, Manjago, Karoninka ... name it, it was there. If others
>>>don't know this, Yaya, you do. We have mutual friends from virtually
>>>every
>>>"tribe" in the Gambia. Remember my close friends: Dam Jeng, Sidia Badji,
>>>Sheriff Newlands, Pa Leese Mendy, and the Jallow-Jallows? So I find it
>>>funny
>>>that you're trying to paint me as a narrow-minded tribalist. Who are you
>>>trying to impress? What are you trying to prove?
>>>
>>>What is even more ironical is that, you're defending Alpha Robinson, your
>>>knowledge of whom does not extend anywhere beyond his public persona.
>>>What
>>>do you know about Alpha other than the fact that he was supposed to be
>>>the
>>>firebrand Head Boy of GHS who caused a raucous at that school in the
>>>mid-80s? Or the equally controversial fracas he was involved in in China
>>>in
>>>'89. In some books, that qualifies Alpha as a progressive. Maybe he is.
>>>I
>>>don't know anything about him beyond that. I have no ill will against the
>>>guy. I, in fact subscribe to many of his proposals, and I've said this in
>>>my
>>>original piece. But I do have a problem with the ethnic issue he raised.
>>>I've challenged him to tell me who these "ethnic" campaigners are, and if
>>>I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Alpha denied he is referring to Darbo and UDP,
>>>but Basiru Ndow who first jumped to his defense, is honest enough to
>>>admit
>>>that Darbo is in fact the politician Alpha is referring to just -as I
>>>knew
>>>he was. Who's lying here? Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see
>>>who
>>>the target of his "ethnic" campaigning is. Like I told Alpha originally,
>>>there's this ethnic nonsense going on, on all sides. Why insinuate that
>>>it's
>>>one-sided? I've said, let's expose anyone individual guilty of this
>>>divisiveness, and condemn him/her. What's tribalist about that?
>>>
>>>A tribe-less society in Gambia is an ideal that we have to work towards.
>>>We
>>>are not there yet. And not to be the devil's advocate, but I don't see us
>>>getting there in our lifetime. We're doing better than our parents, and I
>>>hope our children will fare better. But you cannot solve your problem by
>>>pushing it under the rug. We have a tribal problem in the Gambia. And
>>>it's
>>>not only the politicians that are guilty. It's any of us who perpetuate
>>>stereotypes of one ethnic group or another, or laughs at jokes that
>>>ridicule
>>>one group or another, or denies someone scholarship b/c of their
>>>ethnicity.
>>>These are still the reality in the Gambia. I did not create this. To
>>>pretend that it's not there would not solve it. We all need to come to
>>>terms
>>>w/ this, put everything on the table, discuss it, see where everyone is
>>>coming from, and heal our nation. Just like this society (US) is trying
>>>to
>>>do. Otherwise, we can play dumb/naïve all we want, when the dust settles,
>>>the problem will still be here. On both this forum and Gambianews.com,
>>>there
>>>are occasional stories of how serious tribalism now is in the Gambia. And
>>>from what I gather, it's not coming from the angle Alpha seems to
>>>suggest.
>>>
>>>The fact that I dare discuss this so-called sensitive (some may say
>>>explosive) issue should tell you s'thing about me. I just don't have
>>>anything to hide or prove! Let's all summon our courage and face this
>>>tribal
>>>issue. It won't go away by all of us sticking our heads up in the clouds
>>>like you're doing Yaya. And, Yaya, you're not sophisticated only b/c you
>>>don't know what "tribalism" is. Just visit the Gambia now, and no one
>>>will
>>>need to remind you. Look at the changes going on in the army, the police,
>>>and the overall civil service. If you can't see the obvious, god help
>>>you.
>>>In any case, it's not fair for me to put more on your plate than you can
>>>chew. If you can't comprehend, what I've been saying about this issue,
>>>good
>>>luck. But, just to set the record straight, I did not start this "ethnic"
>>>talk. Alpha did. If he were honest enough to mention the people he's
>>>referring to originally, we would have put this to rest a long time ago.
>>>
>>>Peace.
>>>
>>>Saul
>>>
>>>PS
>>>If for some weird reason, this is your way of proving loyalty to Alpha,
>>>you
>>>can call me a Backward Tribalist. I don't mind. I've never been bothered
>>>by
>>>lies. You know that Yaya!
>>>
>>>Saul
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:05:07 PST
>>>>
>>>>Saul,
>>>>I mean, why are you taking such a stance. Its unproductive! very
>>>>backward,
>>>>and can even be considered irresponsible! for that matter.
>>>>Off course, I did read your piece, and it doesn't sound positive.
>>>>
>>>>I think you need to use your mind better! No body is going to be out
>>>>here
>>>>to
>>>>entertain such ideas! Robinson's piece was very educative and smart. A
>>>>better Gambia, is the agenda Saul, in case you missed the point!
>>>>Do you consider the out come of such ideas as "Tribalism"? what effects
>>>>do
>>>>they have? Why are you puting energy on"Tribal" diversity?
>>>>
>>>>I have been reading some of your wounderful pieces, and thought you were
>>>>more smart than this. Take a little research on that word "Tribe" and
>>>>see
>>>>if
>>>>it even fit our society! It has more wider meanings and effects than you
>>>>may
>>>>think. We shall not entertain that Saul! be careful! its realy
>>>>backwarded
>>>>and unproductive.
>>>>
>>>>I think, if you dont have anything to add, or argue
>>>>constructively,please
>>>>give chance to others who can come up better ideas concerning the
>>>>progress
>>>>and prosperity of our people. We are not out here just for a matter of
>>>>challeging others.We are here to discuss ideas.Further more I will
>>>>consider
>>>>this a waste of time and energy for you, because the average Gambian is
>>>>very
>>>>well aware of the effects of this so called "tribal" issue." so please
>>>>"lagg
>>>>av nu"
>>>>
>>>>No hard feelings brother, "tribal" issues doesn't suit us! we are one.
>>>>
>>>>Yahya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:14:31 GMT
>>>>>
>>>>>Yaya, Yaya, Yaya...
>>>>>
>>>>>Some things just don't change. Do they? Read my piece and read Alpha's
>>>>>again, and ask yourself who the real tribalist is. Like they say around
>>>>>here, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste." Use your mind Yaya!
>>>>>
>>>>>Saul.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:42:32 PST
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What are U up to Saul?
>>>>>>I am disapointed with those ideas of "tribal defendance"
>>>>>>Alpha's proposals were not "tribal" nor were they so bad as you may
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>thought.If he sound wrong in his proposals, may be you have a better
>>>>>>idea.
>>>>>>We will certainly love to hear that one too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any way, I am certain that Robinson, is a reasonable and responsible
>>>>>>person
>>>>>>who can clarify his agenda better than I may do.However, we sould not
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>out
>>>>>>here to entertain such backward ideas as "tribalism"
>>>>>>Infact I even hate thet word! Am sorry brother but, I thought,we
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>by now been thinking far ahead of that. What is "tribalism"?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yahya
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>Subject: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:00:13 GMT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Basiru,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You need to go back and read my article again. I'm not a fan of
>>>>>>>Ousainou's.
>>>>>>>However, whether he's another Jawara is beside the point. The gist of
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>article is that we should go after individuals who, for one reason or
>>>>>>>another are keeping our nation down, not any particular group or
>>>>>>>tribe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you have evidence that Ousainou was campaigning on tribalism,
>>>>>>>produce
>>>>>>>it,
>>>>>>>and I'll be the first to condemn him. Regarding the D30K, I'm not
>>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>>>with the case. But YOU can use this forum to raise that issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regarding my contention w/ Alpha, if all you have is what you've said
>>>>>>>here,
>>>>>>>that's very sad. We can do better than taking cheap shots at each
>>>>>>>other.
>>>>>>>If
>>>>>>>you want to engage in an intelligent argument by producing evidence
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>back
>>>>>>>your assertions, I'm game. But if your only mission is to engage in
>>>>>>>sleaze,
>>>>>>>you'll have to look elsewhere. So Mr. Ndow, you either put up, or
>>>>>>>just
>>>>>>>shut
>>>>>>>up! I won't dignify your sleaze.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Saul.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: Basiru Ndow <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>Subject: [Fwd: Reply to Alpha's Some proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>>>>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:20:06 -0600
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Saul,
>>>>>>>> Your article is absolute nonsense.!!!!!you need to broaden up
>>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>>mind
>>>>>>>>and stop
>>>>>>>>pretending, whether you like it or not, this is the tactic that
>>>>>>>>Ousainou
>>>>>>>>used as a last resort to win the last elections..After all Ousainou
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>just
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>REPLICA of the ousted PPP regime, he was recently indicted by the
>>>>>>>>commission after collecting D30,969.00 from public coffers to
>>>>>>>>recover
>>>>>>>>$74,000. from the defunct NTC, he never did his Job and never return
>>>>>>>>our money back....Wow!!!! Is he not going to be another Jawara or
>>>>>>>>Jammeh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Basiru Ndow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>>>>>>>>Gambia-L
>>>>>>>>Web interface at:
>>>>>>>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>______________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>>>>>>>Gambia-L
>>>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>______________________________________________________
>>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>>>>>>Gambia-L
>>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>______________________________________________________
>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>>>>>Gambia-L
>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>______________________________________________________
>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
>>>>Gambia-L
>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________
>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
