1) Hamjatta, you wrote:

“Kebba Joke,
Yeah, that's right! From now onwards, you shall be known on this forum as
Kebba Joke - courtsey of Brother KB.  As he wittily pointed out to you, you
are nothing but a big joke. So we will just have to finesse the earlier
identity crisis you've gone through and save you the trouble of mistaking
yourself for Daddy Nying. We will henceforth expunge the "b" in the "Jobe"
and replace it with "k" so you shall become now as Kebba Joke. I advice all
my compatriots to stick to this name so there wouldn't be any need for
confusions. See me? Kebba Joke, the joke is on you”.

Hamjatta, like I said on a number of occasions I don’t give a damn what you
call me. The fact remains that whenever you are engaged constructively, you
change the subject thinking you can fool me. What we’ve been talking about
is inconsistency, incompetence and arrogance of the UDP that you finally
admitted just a few days ago. Because of your blinkered vision coupled with
your narrow mindedness you’ve all along refuse to accept that there may be
some problems with the way the UDP ran its campaign during the recent bye
elections. I tried to point this out to you to no avail. You stubbornly
maintained that the UDP battering in Kiang East was solely due to
vote-buying.

“A verminous and cretinous wimp like you who is scared shitless by mere
rhetorics from  refined gentlemen like Darbo and his deputy Yayha Jallow
would never get it why we constructively engaged the UDP. But smart
individuals like Mballow and Darbo knew exactly what we are onto and instead
of threatening us - as Jammeh most certainly have - they engaged us;
accepted some of our criticisms; state what they will do about the
shortcomings highlighted and where they politely begged to differ, they
clearly explaained. This is how a truly democratic, decent, accomodating and
tolerant civic association handles dialogues;…”

Hamjatta, there you go again with your vulgarity. You know very well that
you are lying through your teeth when you say the above. You are incapable
of accommodating any divergent view. You are as intolerant of views that you
don’t share as can be. Your narrow mindedness will not allow you to be
otherwise.

Saul Khan, you wrote:

“Hamjatta,

Like many have opined here, I believe the man's sole
motive for being here is to distract us from engaging in productive
ventures. While he sometimes protest that he's open to conversion, he never
passes up an opportunity to say why he CANNOT support any of the alternative
  parties to Yaya Jammeh (the APRC party and the man are one and the same.)
And to make matters worse, Jobe Nying keeps telling us that highlighting the
atrocities committed by this rogue regime aren't "issues that matter" to
Gambians”.

Saul you cannot be further from the truth than this. The fact that I willing
admit it when others point better reasons for not supporting this regime is
clearer pointer that I give the devil its due. May be as time goes on I
could be convinced that I betting on the wrong horse. All that is important
to me, for now, is for every one to put across your point as convincingly as
one can. At the end of the day all would have been heard and we can all make
more informed choices. The dishonesty of some on this forum is what I will
not swallow hook, line and sinker. To condemn the all the APRC projects as
white elephant projects then turn around saying they are Jawara’s projects
designed by inept civil servants only to turn around yet again claiming that
even if they are good projects they were stolen. Utter rubbish, if you ask
me.

”Besides the twisted logic the man exhibits, there's something really scary
about Jobe which yourself and KB have already highlighted: Mr. Kebba Jobe
Daddy Nying is a very COLD, SADISTIC, and hypocritical character. He's a
first-hand witness to the Hell Ride Gambians are being dragged on by the
Criminal Syndicate a.k.a. APRC govt., but because it hasn't affected him
directly, he's indifferent to the calamity”. He is comfortable supporting an
irredeemably despotic regime, even while he decries the main opposition's
potential for those tendencies”!

Perhaps you are right that may be my support of the regime is partly
attributable to the fact that it has not affected me directly. But if you
apply the same logic to the entire Gambian populace, isn’t it scary? The
question to ask your self is whether all the Gambians supporting this regime
have all degenerated to such low lives. Again ask yourself why some of us
still support this regime despite all the atrocities that this government
has done. I am sorry to tell you that the answers that you come up with
cannot be narrowed down to your above assessment. You will find that some
answers will be found within the quality of the main UDP campaign strategy.

”Mr. Jobe Nying  cannot support the UDP because they're a bunch of "angry
tribalists" whose intent to "reverse everything" the APRC has done will
plunge the country into "civil war." This isn't the first time we've seen
people invoke such fears to disguise their real intention: seeing the
perpetuation of a corrupt, and absolutely tyrannical regime. If we're going
to be honest, we're duty-bound to separate our personal interests from that
which benefits/hinders our larger society most”.

The last sentence of the above I quoted from you is the basis of building up
one’s credibility. Self denial and selective amnesia punctuated by arrogance
will not build up any body’s credibility. Ask your self whether by accepting
some of people’s views when you have divergent views is wrong. When you
agreed with me about our rising population and the relevance of some of the
APRC development projects to the ordinary people of this country, didn’t
some people on this forum admonish you for simply strengthening the
credibility that you have built up for your self? Lets call a spade a spade.
Any body who is willing to accept any other person’s views should not expect
anybody to also blindly accept their views.

I am reproducing the following because it is very pertinent to democracy in
the Gambia and the current debate.

”1. Mr. Jobe Nying is right that Yaya Jammeh isn’t the biggest menace to our
society: Him and his types are! There’s a theory in modern politics called
“Plausible Deniability” that is often used to save leaders from embarrassing
situations. In other words, the leader didn’t “see” what he’s in fact seen,
or doesn’t “know about” what he actually knows to be going on: Reagan in the
Iran-Contra scandal, Helmut Kohl in the “money for influence” pact his party
had with many German businesses, etc. Get the drift? The Kebba Jobe Daddy
Nyings of the Gambia have turned this whole concept into a shameless art
form. They live and breathe it daily. They know about the savagery
constantly meted out to opponents of the regime. They know about the open
bleeding of public coffers. They know about the falsification of all types
of govt. documents. They know about the sorry existence the majority of
Gambians are forced to live thanks to the APRC.  They know about the
alarming EXODUS of TALENTED Gambians (the bedrock of the economy.) And they
know about the unjustified harassment many ordinary Gambians are subjected
to on a daily basis.  Yet, despite all this, the Kebba Jobe Daddy Nyings
shut out these facts because things haven’t hit home directly. So they
defend the criminals, and rationalize their actions, as “neutral” civil
servants, or “respectable” Cabinet Secretaries. They call it “Serving My
Nation With Honor.” A very catchy phrase indeed. But once Yaya Jammeh fires
them, or their wives, sisters, daughters or sons run afoul of the system,
then Raja Sesame! What a mighty surprise! The opposition, and critics on
Gambia-L are indeed right about the APRC govt.! It’s time to be “patriotic.”
But until then, it’s “plausible deniability” with the deformed logic of a
hypocrite. Talk about trying to wake up a “pretend-sleeper!”

Plausible deniability? What are you talking about? Not once did I deny any
of the wrongful deeds attributed to this regime. If that is not clear yet, I
will state my position on these again.

On corruption and the pilfering of state coffers by Yahya Jammeh, the
evidence is just not there. Nobody in his right mind can honestly say that
very fine and refined gentlemen like Clark Bajo, Val Jentsen and Momodou
Cessay, all of the Central bank will sit idly by while our treasury is being
emptied by Yahya and his people. That Yahya is extremely wealthy is stating
it mildly. He is a very wealthy man. However, let’s not forget that he is
actively engaged in agriculture and animal husbandry. Our constitution
unlike that of the US does limit the amount/value of gifts that the
president can receive. Perhaps this is a flaw or may be not. None of you
will deny that former president Jawara received gifts even from our very
poor farmers. The difference here is that Yahya is giving to the poor rather
taking from them. Any honest Gambian will also accept the fact that it is
the APRC government that has made it mandatory for the national audit office
to submit its reports directly to the national assembly yearly. It has never
happened before.

On the alleged cold-blooded murder of some members of our security forces,
the only tangible explanations given so far have been the official version
and Ebou Colly’s recent report. Now the question is which version is true?
Why has Ebou Colly’s version surfacing almost 6 years later? Could any of
you have imagined that the picture he painted about this fateful day and the
following day could have really taken place in the Gambia of all places?

On the April 10 & 11 slaughter of our kids, I condemn it in toto as well as
the recently passed indemnity act. However, I totally disagree that Yahya is
solely responsible for what happened. Let’s say he gave the order to shoot
our children. How many of you really believed that in Gambia of all places,
our security forces can put live bullets in their riffles, aim at young
demonstrating school children and open fire on them time after time? This is
what Ebou Colly said of our then field force:

“…service men were literally  social-outcasts in terms of origin, education,
social status, family background and self-esteem. So instead of having fine
warriors prepared to lay their lives for the defense of their nation, we
ended up grooming angry jealous armed men full of hate and destructive
tendencies ready to follow any deviant or criminal into a path of national
destruction”. Are our security forces of today any different?

Secondly, the rights that the demonstrating school children have to see to
it that justice is done regarding the alleged murder of the late Ebrima
Barry and the alleged rape of the Brikama school girl should also be
extended to the 6 accused fire service men. They are also Gambians who are
also protected by the same constitution and have the right to be assumed
innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In the first place was there
any necessity for the demonstrations considering the fact that those accused
of the late Ebrima’s torture that led to his death were already behind bars
at the central mile 2 prisons. Are these firemen not entitled to a fair
trial or do we just arrest them convict them and just lynch them? I am not
saying that it is the children’s fault for getting shot as some narrow
minded people would like you to believe. All am saying here is that lack of
tolerance on the side of both the children and security forces coupled with
that irresponsible press coverage and UDP pronouncements provided the
fertile ground for explosion that followed.

On the arrest and detentions especially of the UDP militants, it is entirely
of their making. Their vulgar pronouncements and incitements are of their
own making.

I will not touch on the Dumo Saho saga as it is before the courts and I
don’t know much about it.

You also wrote:

“2. The second point is this attempt to portray anyone who calls for
justice for victims of the APRC “extremists,” “haters,” “intolerant,”
“tribalist,” “anarchist,” etc. Very disingenuous, this one.

This is absolute rubbish and you know it. Those I’ve labeled extremists,
haters and intolerant are the narrow minded ones who stubbornly refuse
others their right to express alternative views  different from their own.
These are the Hamjattas, Damphas, Makevelis, Ansuman Kujabis, Momodou
Mboges, Lamin Barrows, etc, etc.

You wrote:

“You see there are two types of Gambians: those who are demanding justice
and fair play uncompromisingly, and those whose assiduous attempt to protect
their vested interest believe the pursuit of material well-being is
exculpatory. Somehow, as long as they’re making money, or have “big jobs,”
it really doesn’t matter HOW they do it.  Ignore basic human etiquette? Why
not! Close one’s eyes to murder and mayhem? Who said you can’t? Prostitute
oneself and wive(s)? It’s just “temporary” – I’m the permanent owner. How
about letting Massa XYZ have a little fun with sister Kumba, or daughter
Fatou? Hey what’s the harm – since they’re bound to give it up, they may as
well give it up to the “Big Man” – the “good genes?”

Dead wrong. You see your warped mind at work? How another group that
believes that the best way to convince any one is to provide evidence that
is convincing. How about those who believe in retribution but not revenge?
How about those who believe that an eye for eye will only make the whole
world blind?

“This is the twisted mentality of the Kebba Jobe Daddy Nyings. They cannot
understand why some of us could stick to principles when turning a blind eye
could get us “good jobs” and material things as members of the “In” club.
Their behavior is as sickening as it is shameless. The disgust and contempt
is certainly mutual. People on our side should take Kebba Jobe Daddy Nying’s
labels (“extremists,” “haters,” “intolerant,” “tribalist,” “anarchists,”) as
a compliment. Anything kinder from one who so cheerfully strengthens the
hand of the devil, would be a blow to decent human beings everywhere.
There’s no salvation for one who arrogantly cheerleads for a band of
ne’er-do-wells bent on destroying everything decent about a whole people.
What is going on in the Gambia is a tragedy of epic proportions, and the
complicity of people like Kebba Jobe Daddy Nying in it is shameful. Very,
very, shameful|.

The rants and raves of idiots like Pamodou Jobe, Momodou Olly Mboge et al is
reminiscent of a mad man and does not bother me. Those of you with your
blinkered vision are incapable of critical analysis of current events. To be
in denial hoping for better things is for fools. Please wake up.

Dampha you wrote
“POWERFUL. Joke would not say that you did not warn him. You told him from
the onset that as soon as he finished his thesis, you will be on his back.
He finished his thesis with a whimper; sobbing as a little child frightened
of an imaginary thing. You gave it to him where it hurts most. Joke's most
cherished commodity is to gain respectability from decent folks. You told
him in no uncertain terms that it takes more than he brings to the table to
gain respect from people. I knew all along that you got Joke's number. The
moron does not know who he is dealing with. This is not about smarts and
writing coherent English. This is about basic integrity. Thank you very
much, my brother. You just made my day. I hate the vermin”.

Get real, Dampha. I am very capable of taking good care of myself. You
cannot but hate me, but that's your business. I know that your narrow
mindedness, anger and despair cannot allow you otherwise.

Musa Jeng wrote:

“Mr. Jobe:

Some of us are driven to see a Gambia where the political discourse can
be taken to a level, that by even being critical, one can contribute
inadvertently to the development process of our country. In any
debate/discussion, there are always cynics, skeptics, extremist, fence
sitters and positions that are down right dishonest. From the final
summation of your case, dishonesty is an understatement”.

The dishonesty prevalent in this forum is strongly entrenched in your camp.
Self denial, selective amnesia, narrow mindedness while expecting others to
respect your views is the epitome of dishonesty.

“The last time I contributed my butut to this debate, I was seriously
lambasted because I dared to be objective. Not that I was completely naive
that you could be a partisan Jammeh supporter, but I strongly believe that
the level of the debate can be helped if the other side view can be
adequately represented. Clearly, it is not suffice just to hold discussions
without hoping that it could ultimately helped the democratization and
development of our country. Although, it is unfortunate you are what
everybody thought you were, and reading your conclusion, and going back to
see some of the adjective directed to me by Mr.Dampha. I still disagree with
his characterization, but can now understand the temperament of his
argument”.

Mr. Jeng, the development of democracy cannot be achieved in the absence of
the right to free speech and the right to have a different opinion. This is
however not the case with some of your people.

“You started out by painting the shortcomings of the first republic, the
mismanagement of the economy and the level of corruption during the Jawara
era. Not that I disagree with some of your facts, but it is sad that all you
sough was political opportunism and you could care less what it did to the
country. When you touted the Jammeh projects to build your case, again
political expediency was all you cared about. In my last piece, when I posed
this question: “What would you tell the disappointed coup supporters who
were interested in development projects, political stability, preservation
of individual rights, end to corruption, independent judiciary and a new
Gambia full of hope and stability.” You completely ignored it. What really
dwarfs all your dishonesty was your final summation, that your support to
the AFPRC is a direct result of your own views on the UDP party”.

Jeng my failure to answer the question is totally inadvertent. So may people
have asked me a lot of questions and it is very possible that I overlooked
it. To answer your question, I would urge them to continue to discuss these
issues with a view to gaining better understanding of what went wrong and
why.

The only fact to the above statements is that, you support the AFPRC (and
only God and yourself no why), and your hatred to the UDP Party, and clearly
their political platform has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is sad
that you have paraded the hall of the Gambia-L, and some of us were eager to
give you the benefit of the doubt. You have willingly ignored the truth and
sacrificed the future of your children by actively compromised and mortgaged
the future of our country. What was obvious was your inability to invalidate
Jammeh’s human rights abuses; and corruption, the single issue that was used
to justify the coup, has become synonymous with this administration.
Unfortunately, like other war-ridden countries in Africa, the peace that
this country is known for is threatened”.

Mr. Jeng what constitutes facts, like truth, are not as easily seen by all.
That’s why it is important that we more tolerant of each other’s views.
After all the country is more than any individual or party. In Game theory
there is a game called “Zero-sum game”.  This is analogous with gambling
with a fair coin (locally called Peps). This is a game that should not
played among friends or family members. The simple reason is that one only
gains what the other looses. The Gambia should not be subject to a zero-sum
game. The notion that we cannot hold divergent views and yet have a common
goal is nonsense. Unfortunately there are some who believe that either you
are with them or against them.

“Mr.Jobe, the future of our democracy and our country starts with the
truth, and for people like yourself to understand that you are participating
in the destruction of your children’s future. Unless we start to approach
our problems with honesty, objectivity and what is ultimately in the
interest of the country, we are all engage in the destruction of the
Gambia”.

Mr. Jeng, I am fully aware of the need to put the interests of our country
and people first, and in that endeavor, I am willing to take on any one so
that by the end of the day, the weaknesses and strengths of both sides will
be there for all to see. Should the UDP win the next elections, which I
sincerely doubt, they would have come to power knowing full well what
educated Gambians expect of them. All parties in the country will also have
come to terms with the reality that politics is no more a taboo subject
exclusively monopolized by some families.

Have a good day and bye 4Now, KB Jobe.

>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Lamin Jeng <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Jobe and the Truth
>Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:51:35 -0400
>
>Sorry for the typo and omission.  My last two sentences should have >read:
>
>It was only a matter of time for him to unwittingly expose himself.  >Great
>observations on your part.
>
>
>From: Lamin Jeng <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Jobe and the Truth
>Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:43:42 -0400
>
>Mr. Jeng,
>
>I'm glad you finally saw through this fellow "Jobe".  It was only a matter
>of time for him to unwiitingly expose himself. Great observations on part.
>
>Lamin Jeng
>
>
>>From: Musa Jeng <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Jobe and the Truth
>>Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:42:33 -0400
>>
>>Mr. Jobe:
>>
>>Some of us are driven to see a Gambia where the political discourse can
>>be taken to a level, that by even being critical, one can contribute
>>inadvertently to the development process of our country. In any
>>debate/discussion, there are always cynics, skeptics, extremist, fence
>>sitters and positions that are down right dishonest. From the final
>>summation of your case, dishonesty is an understatement.
>>
>>The last time I contributed my butut to this debate, I was seriously
>>lambasted because I dared to be objective. Not that I was completely
>>naive that you could be a partisan Jammeh supporter, but I strongly
>>believe that the level of the debate can be helped if the other side
>>view can be adequately represented. Clearly, it is not suffice just to
>>hold discussions without hoping that it could ultimately helped the
>>democratization and development of our country. Although, it is
>>unfortunate you are what everybody thought you were, and reading your
>>conclusion, and going back to see some of the adjective directed to me
>>by Mr.Dampha. I still disagree with his characterization, but can now
>>understand the temperament of his argument.
>>
>>You started out by painting the shortcomings of the first republic, the
>>mismanagement of the economy and the level of corruption during the
>>Jawara era. Not that I disagree with some of your facts, but it is sad
>>that all you sough was political opportunism and you could care less
>>what it did to the country. When you touted the Jammeh projects to build
>>your case, again political expediency was all you cared about. In my
>>last piece, when I posed this question: “What would you tell the
>>disappointed coup supporters who were interested in development
>>projects, political stability, preservation of individual rights, end to
>>corruption, independent judiciary and a new Gambia full of hope and
>>stability.” You completely ignored it. What really dwarfs all your
>>dishonesty was your final summation, that your support to the AFPRC is a
>>direct result of your own views on the UDP party.
>>
>>The only fact to the above statements is that, you support the AFPRC
>>(and only God and yourself no why), and your hatred to the UDP Party,
>>and clearly their political platform has absolutely nothing to do with
>>it. It is sad that you have paraded the hall of the Gambia-L, and some
>>of us were eager to give you the benefit of the doubt. You have
>>willingly ignored the truth and sacrificed the future of your children
>>by actively compromised and mortgaged the future of our country. What
>>was obvious was your inability to invalidate Jammeh’s human rights
>>abuses; and corruption, the single issue that was used to justify the
>>coup, has become synonymous with this administration. Unfortunately,
>>like other war-ridden countries in Africa, the peace that this country
>>is known for is threatened.
>>
>>Mr.Jobe, the future of our democracy and our country starts with the
>>truth, and for people like yourself to understand that you are
>>participating in the destruction of your children’s future. Unless we
>>start to approach our problems with honesty, objectivity and what is
>>ultimately in the interest of the country, we are all engage in the
>>destruction of the Gambia.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Musa Jeng

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