Daffeh, I am aware that Haruna understands logic. In fact he is very
good at it. But if words and phrases are removed from their contextual
composition they can be given new meanings and definitions.
When we talk about democracy, we are talking about a concept. Though
the principles that underline the concept can be universal, its
character and form can be defined and refined. Thus you can have
different kinds of democracies. You can have a social democracy and you
can have a people's democracy. That is why some people argue that it is
relative.
Again, when we talked about rebuilding a society or a nation we are
not using these terms without their historical antecedent.
"We know how the nation-state evolved. We know how the interaction
between people who occupied the same geographic space, with different
dialects and ethnic groupings, were unified into a nation with a common
way of life and a national identity. We know how the nationalist
movements that were fighting against colonialism and for political
independence exploited the linguistic characteristics of the people in
their struggles for self determination, national sovereignty and
political independence. We know that these nationalist movements
succeeded to do away with their monarchical constitutions and replace
them with a constitution with national characteristics.
"However, the drive to national sovereignty and political
independence were carried out by different nationalist movements. Some
of these movements after gaining power acted and behaved just like the
colonialist they have overthrown. Others have no development agenda
other than the fact that they defeat one repressive regime to replace
it with another repressive regime. Others used people as a prefix in
everything to give the impression that the people are in control when
in actual fact power with all its monarchical inclinations were
consolidated in an executive. In our case we see the results both in
the first and second republics.
"There is ample evidence to indicate that the nationalist
revolutions do not necessarily bring liberty and empowerment to the
people. The reason that we are carrying out struggles decades after our
nations have gained political independence, is a testament to the fact
that a democratic revolution which we are still struggling to attain,
has ever been elusive.
"And this is where PDOIS stands. They know that the national
liberation struggles have liberated peoples and nations. This was the
first phase of the nationalist revolution. You cannot liberate a people
without liberating a nation. The second phase of the nationalist
revolution is to build a sovereign nation. Without a sovereign nation
you cannot have a sovereign people. It is this sovereign nation and
people that PDOIS is struggling to build."
I have put the above in quotes because it is my interpretation of a
PDOIS political literature to the best of my understanding. I hope it
will help to give some context to some of the questions Haruna has
raised.
Democracy has a process and it is the means by which people give
authority and representation to another to act for them and to speak
for them. And we know the role of political parties in this process.
Therefore if PDOIS has the mandate of the people through this
process to act and speak for them, obviously they should be in a
position to do all of the things that Haruna has questioned.
I am going to hold you to your admission that you can be open to
compromise. Just don't start with your insistence in a party-led
coalition.
Rene
-----Original Message-----
From: UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] PDOIS explains its Absence in Raleigh???????????????
Haruna, I like the gist of your question to Rene but its sooooooo funny
that I can't stop laughing.
By the way; the Nyakoi bridge is still up for sale. Wonder if Rene
would be interested.
Cheers
Daffeh
On Sunday, 26 May 2013, Haruna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Rene,
>
> Consensus is an English word. If Halifa does not mean it the way
the English defined it with context, might he consider using a
different word that explains his idea?
>
> You are right that Halifa does not mean consensus build around
your "conventional wisdom" or "standard practices" of coalition
politics, but if you would have objectively interrogate the premise
upon which his consensus is built, without injecting your subjective
inclinations in its overall outcome, you would have understood that no
matter how coded the language is, grasping its essence and its
material import is not really beyond our understanding. You are one who
is making something simple to be very complicated.
>
> Whilst you are interested in the continuation of the system with
your "conventional wisdom" and "standard practices'", PDOIS is
interested in a democratic process that will build the democratic and
institutional framework that underpins the civic, political, economic,
social and cultural life of the people. We want to rebuild a society.
You want to perpetuate the status quo. This is the difference.
>
> What does Halifa mean by "Democratic Process", "Democratic &
Institutional Framework", "civic, political, economic, social, and
cultural life of the people".
>
> I understand you want to rebuild a society but those who populate
that society have not given you the permission to rebuild them in your
image. They are telling you to unite with their fellows in order to
remove a disease that is decimating them. Yahya. They are sick. And
they want you to join in creating the antibiotic. When the disease is
contained, they may hire you to rebuild their roads, schools,
hospitals, farms, water supply. They want you to leave their minds and
freedoms to them to care for. They want to accord you your freedom to
rebuild your own mind however you deem proper. They want you out of
their bedrooms and religions. They don't want you preying on the minds
of their children and grandchildren. Make your own children and
grandchildren and rebuild their minds, civic, political, social, and
cultural lives. Why would you burden yourself with building a society
who hasn't given that responsibility to
you??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????
>
> Quite baffling.
>
> If this is your sole purpose, why would you give the excuse for
not attending the Raleigh congress to be "Diaspora should build
consensus first, then Home should build consensus, then they should
come together to build a united front." Your partners in DIASPORA and
HOME, whose society you want to rebuild in your image, they are not
interested in you rebuilding their minds and civic (religion &
industry), political (freedoms of association and assembly), social
(relationships with their fellows), and cultural (religion & industry)
LIVES. Why force yourself on a people for 3 decades, and unawares,
embolden the diseases that threaten to decimate
them??????????????????????
>
> When they are completely ravaged by the disease, whose minds,
civic, political, social, and cultural lives will you seek to REBUILD?
And for what reason??? or are you actually looking forward to the day
when all, except your partisans, will have been killed by the
disease?????? You are a political party afterall. Or are you
really?????????????????????
>
> Haruna.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask]>
> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 8:50 am
> Subject: [G_L] PDOIS explains its Absence in Raleigh???????????????
>
> Rene, how about your belligerent insistence on a consensus
entirely built on the back of Halifa's personal conviction and wishful
ideology against all practices and norms known on planet earth?? With
that attitude of yours, not only will there be no coalition; we won't
even be able to have a decent and constructive dialogue to engender
compromise.
>
> Pdois is literally asking for a coalition that is based on the
totality of Halifa's will rather than a compromise solution. There is
no doubt that most people find that to be not only silly but also
utterly repugnant.
>
> I get your point about PDOIS's notion of democracy which is alien
to the real world of democracy anyway. So I am not surprised that you
will dismiss any coalition idea that is premised on conventional or
standard practices of coalition politics. In the real world of
democracy, the legitimacy to lead is always derived from the majority
and that majority in our case is with the UDP. This is an
incontrovertible fact.
>
> PDOIS's 'democracy of circumventing the rules' to satisfy Halifa
narcissism is not acceptable to the vast majority of the people who
supports the opposition and I certainly will never give any comfort to
the kind of nonsense you espoused in it.
>
> The PDOIS party is a collection of indignant clowns and I think
you and your waifs should be left alone in your loners' closet.
>
> Thanks
> Daffeh
>
> On Sunday, 26 May 2013, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Daffeh,
>> I am quite certain that with your attitude and your
belligerent posture towards what you deemed as conventional wisdom or
standard practices of coalition building, there will never be a
coalition now or in the near future. We are at it again, history
repeating itself. It seems that you are not learning from your past
experiences. It did not work before and it is not going to work now.
>>
>> You are right that Halifa does not mean consensus
build around your "conventional wisdom" or "standard practices" of
coalition politics, but if you would have objectively interrogate the
premise upon which his consensus is built, without injecting your
subjective inclinations in its overall outcome, you would have
understood that no matter how coded the language is, grasping its
essence and its material import is not really beyond our
understanding. You are one who is making something simple to be very
complicated.
>>
>> Whilst you are interested in the continuation of the
system with your "conventional wisdom" and "standard practices'", PDOIS
is interested in a democratic process that will build the democratic
and institutional framework that underpins the civic, political,
economic, social and cultural life of the people. We want to rebuild a
society. You want to perpetuate the status quo. This is the difference.
>>
>> We are all eyes and ears waiting for you to move the rest
in unity and a sense of purpose defined by clear objectives.
>>
>> Rene
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 4:01 pm
>> Subject: [G_L] PDOIS explains its Absence in
Raleigh???????????????
>>
>> When Halifa said 'consensus', he does not mean consensus build
around the conventional wisdom or standard practices of coalition
politics but a consensus built entirely behind his own personal
conviction. The language is a coded one and ofcourse above the pay
grade of his disciples and defenders here. So am not surprise that they
don't even know what they are talking about when they tried to defend
Halifa's capricious and contemptuous absence at the Raleigh Conference
here.
>>
>> I also noticed that PDOIS's statement was actually fishing for
reasons to justify Halifa's absence in the Raleigh Conference as this
talk about exposing or deepening the divide was not mentioned in their
letter to the organisers but built on Freedom Newspaper's ignoble,
distorted and embellished report on the exchange between the UDP leader
and Hamat Bah of NRP. PDOIS simply just moved the goal post to suit
their desired narrative rather than what they foresaw before the
conference.
>>
>> I think it is about time these people are left alone in their
indignant closet and let the rest of us move on in unity and a sense of
purpose defined by clear objectives. Fringe parties tend to collect
waifs and strays alone the way and that means we can't avoid having
certain people comin >
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