Brother Habib,
1)
Do you sincerely believe that the courses of USA's problems are the same as ours? - I personally don't believe that the two are comparable. Talking of USA, don't you believe that USA is one of the most advanced in agricultural production/equipment - if so, check yourself - you might have just contradicted yourself.
2) To know where we are going, we must know where we are coming from - what is the ROOT cause of our problems - a,b,c,d,e,. If the answer is be, why?
Best regards,
Nyar'Onyango
**********
----- Original Message -----
From: Habib Ghanim
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: ****Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political Violence
Interesting and provocative yet true
I think a lot of our problems lie on bad or weak leadership not only in Africa but world wide .
Look at the USA for example ,GW Bush has created so much isolation and hatred just because he does not have a vision and is only thinking about how much money his associates will get out of Iraq .
I personally think that if Africa goes BACK to AGRICULTURE (farming ) seriously growing all their foodstuff needs and import only waht they do not and can not get from another African country as bater ,then and until then will our dignity and freedom be regained
That is not all of course -education and family values - will follow after we solve the hunger and starvation
rgds
habib
>From: uga749d
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: ****Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political Violence
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:05:44 +0100
>
>Fellow brothers and sisters,
>
>I don't have anything to offer here, but I do tend to agree with what Mike
>is saying. What we need to do first and foremost, is to identify the root
>course(s) of our problems - how did it come to be as it is today, and how
>was it before ? How far back did it start? How do we go about it? - What
>is it that makes even our most well-intending leaders all end up almost in
>the same way?
>
>Do we anticipate to see the results in our present time, or it something
>that is likely to take a very L O N G time to achieve. If the later
>is the answer, do I still care to fight on if I am not going to see it come
>in my life, or shall I continue with the struggle for the benefit of our
>future generation?
>
>Just look, for example, at all the former colonies and so-called
>"protectorates". Is the situation unique to just our country?
>
>How do other countries foreign policies affect us?
>
>How does the "AID" politics work?
>The IMF, the World Bank, the UN, etc - how do they operate and who
>benefits - how and why were they created - and do they still bear the same
>values (if at all they had any)?
>
>How many are we who are capable of seeing this - and how do we get the
>others to come to this level - how do we go about it?
>
>Divide and Rule through their own sons/daughters
>Impoverise them
>Distablise the country (if necessary the whole region) - thereby causing
>little or no human, technical development, etc
>Make viruses (to be used when and where it is necessary)
>Instill Fear into them
>Their good leaders who pose a threat to our interests - turnish their
>image - get them killed, overthrown and forced to live in exile. Their
>citizens believe in us - they will believe what we say about him/her
>Make them look upon us for their solutions - B I N G O!!!!!
>etc, etc, etc.
>
>Do such things sound real to you? - I bet not
>
>And did you that there are two very common expressions used on us?
>
>(1) AFRICA HAS THE MOST EDUCATED FOOLS
>
>(2) AFRICA KILLS HER OWN "SUNS"
>
>Also, have you ever asked yourself this question - Who really should be the
>POOR, third world? How can a whole continent which is so rich in all the
>mineral resources on earth, also be the poorest? The raw material needed
>for technology -most of it, if not all of it comes from Africa
>
>Cry! Cry! My Continent Cry!!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Nyar'Onyango
>
>**************
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "samateh saikou"
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:02 PM
>Subject: Re: SV: Fw: Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political
>Violence
>
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Great to see your comments and I could not just let this go without
>letting
> > you know that you are raising points that are very important at this stage
> > of the political development.Keep up the good work down there.But after
> > saying that I would definitely continue to insist that this form of
> > political romance has not produced any desired results so far and that we
> > should be thinking of its importance and even where as we choose to take
> > it,how we must not repeat what is happening in Kenya,in Ghana or Senegal.
> > Good that you took up the Kenyan case.You might be surprise to know that
>one
> > of those marking big political noise in Kenya today is Moi.I happen to
>know
> > Koiki whiles he was in exile in Norway,a very nice brother,who never
> > continue his University studies in the USA, he called it off and returned
> > home to take up the struggle .He was from a Poor family,upon his
> > returned,the many tortures,detentions etc for decades did not stop him and
> > today he is a member of parliament.You don't just have little respect for
> > such type of people,you respect them more than anything else.What happen
> > after the victory ?The frustrations that people in that country are
>facing
> > right now is overshadowing the cosmetic changes that have so far taken
> > place, and in the next stage,if things remain as they are,you will see Moi
> > emerging again as a national hero.The first thing that this new Parliament
> > did was to increase their salaries in such a way and manner that the
> > majority of Kenyans began to question what happened to the slogan
>"Without
> > Moi,everything is possible".I don't believe that Jammeh will be there as
> > long as Jawara,the political situation in the country is not saying
>that,but
> > what will follow,do we have to wait until then to talk about it ?What I am
> > insisting on is that there are many examples of such, are we learning from
> > them ? I disagree with you on the issue of democracy and social
>changes.For
> > me these are two inseparable life issues that must go hand in hand and not
> > one waiting for the another or that one become the product of the
> > other.Pinochet is gone and where is Chile today ?We must not think that
>such
> > are automatic development,they are all products of struggle for a better
> > society.In my opinion I don't think that it is correct to habour the
>believe
> > in us that,all that is important is get rid of the semi fascist APRC
>regime
> > and all that will follow will be the good.Do we know how the PDOIS or UDP
>or
> > take NDAM for that matter,believed in what manner an "Independent
>Electoral
> > Committee" should function ?Do we know what the PDOIS ,UDP or Ndam are
> > thinking of how political power should be transferred from day one to the
> > ordinary Gambian people ?It seems these are some of the questions you mean
> > to say that we wait with until Jammeh is gone.That is not our
> > experience,ours is that,we Had Jawara for more than 30 years of political
> > brutality and economic mismanagement and then Jammeh.There is no better
>time
> > for us to guarantee our selves that,never again "a political fascist"than
> > now.I don't believed it is a question of the future but now.
> >
> > For Freedom
> > Saiks
> >
> >
> > >From: malik kah
> > >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> > >
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: SV: Fw: Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political
> > > Violence
> > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:24:28 +0000
> > >
> > >Sheiks, I share your sentiments but what you fail to realise is that such
> > >coalitions are not designed or meant to address the fundamental issues
>you
> > >raised, issues such as the living conditions of the people such issues
>are
> > >and must be embeded on principles guided by ideology and the parties that
> > >normally forge such coalitions do not normally share a common ideological
> > >approac for their existence is usually conditioned by the fact that a
> > >change
> > >to re-start is both essential and inevitable, if there exist a facist
> > >regime
> > >it is incumbent on all and sundry to devsie a strategy to oust them and
> > >after they are gone, it is assumed that a mouch more healthier climate
>than
> > >hitherto existed would ensue and this is precisely why a bonding of this
> > >nature is increasingly popular. Such coalitions are essentially not
> > >designed
> > >to address needs but to redress democratic deficiencies that have become
> > >the
> > >norm of governance under tyrants or despots. Obviously the need to
>address
> > >some issues are prerequisites to forging such alliances but their greater
> > >good are self evident. For instance take Kenya, eventhough everything is
> > >not
> > >rosy, but the fact MOI had been ousted is a good thing, obviously a lot
>of
> > >issues needs to be further explored to give back power to the people, for
> > >me
> > >I see it as a single step towards the right direction, I have taken on
> > >board
> > >some of your reservations but broadly I think with a rustic electorate in
> > >Africa and the continued exploitation of the gullibility of the people,
>the
> > >strategy of coming together from opposing poles to create a more
>tolereant
> > >political lanscape is welcoming.
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: samateh saikou
> > >>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> > >>
> > >>To: [log in to unmask]
> > >>Subject: Re: SV: Fw: Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political
> > >> Violence
> > >>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:03:51 +0000
> > >>
> > >>Mr Drammeh,
> > >>
> > >>I have been enjoying your exchange and the many interesting issues you
> > >>have
> > >>been putting us through.However there are certain points that I believed
> > >>are
> > >>not inline with my own view of what is going on.
> > >>The Political situation in Senegal is very interesting and we as
>Gambians
> > >>should pay great attentions to the developments there.First,let me tell
> > >>you
> > >>what I feel about Negritude.The reason why I believed that Africans are
> > >>not
> > >>interested in this political thought, is because of the fact that it has
> > >>been the most reactionary political thought that has ever emerged in the
> > >>continent since independent.Negritude was posing itself as an
>alternative
> > >>to
> > >>Pan-Africanism,reducing its meaning to the well known slogan of the
> > >>founder
> > >>"Reason Greek,emotion African".Critics like Anta Jobe have accused
> > >>Senghore
> > >>of not knowing his history and for that reason came to such a
> > >>conclusion.Negritude does not only say that all that is black is
> > >>"beautiful"
> > >>but also glorifying terrible African history,conditions and culture.This
> > >>you
> > >>can simply find out in the writings of both Senghore and likes of Lye
> > >>Camara
> > >>of Guinea.The most interesting contradictions is that,must of these
>people
> > >>live a life very different from that of the African.Take Senghore's
>"Night
> > >>in Sine" and compare this with the life of Senghore and the condition of
> > >>the
> > >>African Woman in the village.Falsifying the African culture,history or
> > >>beign
> > >>is the least we need as a struggling continent.
> > >> Secondly the Political situation in Senegal is perhaps more
> > >>complicated.For more than 10 years,Senegalese oppositions Parties have
> > >>been
> > >>working together to bring about political change in that country and
>among
> > >>the most active in this work were the most progressive political parties
> > >>in
> > >>that country,who were also banned political parties during the Period of
> > >>Senghore and the bann lifted by the Joof.After bringing down the PS
> > >>regime,these people are now face with another situation and the
>condition
> > >>of
> > >>the ordinary Senegalese still the same.
> > >>The lesson for us Gambians is that,is it just enough that we are against
> > >>the
> > >>semi fascist APRC regime or do we want a better Gambia after Jammeh.This
> > >>is
> > >>what is the problem with people like me and my lack of interest in a
> > >>unified
> > >>Opposition against Jammeh.Not only in Senegal,but in Accra too this is
>the
> > >>problem,even though bringing down the regime of Junior Judas brought
>hope
> > >>to
> > >>the ordinary people,very little has changed in the life of ordinary
> > >>Ghanaians.Are the opposition parties capable of bringing about change
>for
> > >>a
> > >>better Gambia.Do we ever here them telling us how is this going to take
> > >>place.Much of what we hear from them is what they are against and most
>of
> > >>us agree with them on those issue.Learning from Senegal or Ghana,will
>mean
> > >>that the oppositions parties tell us what they are for and how they are
> > >>going to go about it and then we can put in place things that will make
>it
> > >>impossible to have another fascist regime,light or strong.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>For Freedom
> > >>Saiks
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>From: Oko Drammeh
> > >>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> > >>>
> > >>>To: [log in to unmask]
> > >>>Subject: Re: SV: Fw: Thousands March in Protest At Growing Political
> > >>> Violence
> > >>>Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:55:44 +0100
> > >>>
> > >>>Culture and Life.
> > >>>
> > >>>We want Africa to asset her self, to preserve her personality to up
>hold
> > >>>and excercise her Lirbety
> > >>>of actions .We want Africa to recover her dignity which should be
> > >>>expressed
> > >>>and acknowledge.
> > >>>Senegal is a hurdle too high to jump.
> > >>>
> > >>>QUOATATION
> > >>>" I notice that all of thoes comminting on Senegalese politics are the
> > >>>ones
> > >>>who never made a
> > >>>single comment on the APRC regime "
> > >>>Jabou Joh wrote.
> > >>>
> > >>>This is what this time of political emergence of the African people to
> > >>>liberty and dignity
> > >>>commands us to do.
> > >>>
> > >>>Renovations should sweep the past But sadly Senegal; is still
>strengthen
> > >>>by colonialism.
> > >>>
> > >>>There is oppression in the Gambia as a nation but in Senegal there is
> > >>>still
> > >>>Neo colonialism and
> > >>>ANTI-African Unity a virus that affects the Contienent of Africa as a
> > >>>whole
> > >>>and the diaspora..
> > >>>
> > >>>Much respect and Love.
> > >>>
> > >>>For The records.
> > >>>Oko Drammeh
> > >>>
> > >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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