Joe,
First, as brother Modou Sidibeh pointed out, you must be commended for your
dedication and ongoing effort to organize on behalf of our country and people.
Unfortunately, we seem to be a people who tend to take shots at, as opposed
to nurturing those who make an effort to take us forward much to our own
detriment. However, rest asured that this not the case here, but rather a desire
to make sure that we do not loose sight of the reason we are trying to organize
at this time. If in our efforts to organize to defeat the present regime, we
forget the reason behind the effort, and also the reason why most of us have
found it necessary to become vocal regarding politics in our country, then we
would have defeated our own purpose.
The main reason for the present predicament facing the Gambian people today
is that we have no voice in the determination of our own political affairs
because this right has been abbrogated by the current regime.
Therefore, every effort we make to facilitate a change of government cannot
afford to be an effort that marginalizes the participation of Gambians.This is
not something complicated to understand, so I was going to say that what we
have here is a failure to communicate, but rather, I think it is a failure to
cooperate, and all of us loose, especially the people we say we are trying to
help, when that happens.
However, I will respond to your comments below as follows:
In a message dated 8/19/03 11:09:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> "Jabou, thanks for your response. Due to time limitation, I would just
> attempt to address the core of your concerns. If we have only ideas with no
> money, do you think anyone in the Gambia will listen to us much more ask us
> to draft anything? I do not think so. The Alternative came because we
> promised to fund them in terms of both money and logistics."
>
> My response:
I hope that you are wrong Joe Sambou when you imply here that the
opposition
> parties agreed to the alternative of a coalition only because some people
> agreed to fund them. I would like to believe that they agreed to form a
> coalition because it is a political strategy that will help get our country out of
> the clutches of the Jammeh regime, and the opposition parties know that this
> will be accomplished more effectively if they pool their human and material
> resources together, and most important of all, because this is what is best
> for Gambia and Gambians whose interest is what all politicians should serve.
> The funding and logistical support is secondary, and if there is a sincerity
> and willingness on the part of the opposition parties to work together, then
> it is incumbent upon us to them provide them the funding and logistical
> support.
> If they agreed only because of the promise for funding and logictical
> support, then we are in trouble.
You wrote:
"If a Gambian is > really interested in joining this effort, they cannot
> just say they just
> want to discuss and that's it. If that is the case, then we can use the
> Gambia-L and Gambia Post to do that. I don't think anyone is denying any
> Gambian the right to speak and as I write, folks are expressing their
> opinions on Gambia-L and Gambia Post with no hindrance. So why do you need
> a listserve to do the same? "
>
> My response:
Actually Joe, the what I understand is that there was open discussion on the
post and some people considered it too chaotic and then decided to go form a
separate listserve dedicated to the discussion where only those paying into the
fund are allowed to participate. I think you miss the point, whether
deliberately or not, I do not know. Just discussion will not take us anywhere, and no
one is advocating that.
For the brief period that I was part of the fund drive list, after it was
decided that only contributors can belong, it was advocated that the list be
closed and then some of the members started drafting a document that is supposed
to be the imput of the Gambioans in the Diaspora to give to the opposition
parties as the contribution towards the preparation of a document that will
outline the details of a coalition.
This is where the problem comes in Joe. You guys set up this private list
with definitions as to who can join, and then proceeded to work on a document
that si supposed to represent the imput of Gambians in the diaspora when you had
no mandate to undertake such a thing. That is the main argument.
You say that there si ongoing discussion on the Post and G-L, but are those
in your private listserve who are undertaking to speak for the rest of Gambians
in the Diaspora making any efforts to take the ideas from these discussion
into consideration in the preparation of the document that they are intending to
submit to the political parties? Is there any effort to inform Gambians on
these lists that their imput towards the preparation of this document is being
solicited?
I have seen no discussion at least on G-L, as to what exactly should be
included in this document to be submitted to the opposition parties. Such a
discussion needs to be moderated, and the ideas collected if there is genuine
interest in involving Gambians in the determination of their political future. This
desire is what all of us who have been speaking out against the Jammeh regime
say is our motivation and goal.
No, there would be no need for a private listserve to either collect funds
or have this open discussion if people had not undertaken to set up a private
list, and this by the way, was initiated by you and those on the list you set
up and then proceeded to discuss topics that are for all Gambians to be
involved in. As mentioned, ther would not be any problem if the fund drive list did
not establish a criterion of exclusion and then proceed to discuss items
that should involve all Gambians.
You wrote:
"Consider the Diaspora as an interest group that> wants to put their MONEY
> where their MOUTH is and dictate policy to effect change. You cannot say that
> folks can dictate policy without their money."
My response:
This may be true, but that interest has to be expressed in an organized
fashion and presented to the politicians because that is what participatory
Democracy is all about. It si not just a loose idea where assumptions and decision
are made on behalf of the people. That kind of idea is why we have
dictatorships, and we are not looking to replace one set of dictators with another.
Also, the notion that one cannot effect policy without money is the root of
our problems and id directly opposite to the notion of democracy that we say we
are working for. If money is the only way that people can effect policy
changes, then we might as well forget the notion of one man one vote. If all one
needs to effect change is money, then African who are largely poor can forget
about a fair political process. Just let teh guys who collect funds speak for us
and tell us what to do.
We cannot afford to subscribe to such a notion, and this is a direct
discredit to any political party if the implication is that they only respond to the
needs of the people when money is dangled infront of them.
You wrote:
> "Those who are contributing are not speaking for all Gambians either. What
> they are doing is they are going to the table with money in hand to discuss
> with the parties. On the contrary, if a section of our population feels
> that they can just go to the table with the Alternative, empty handed, they
> have all the power to do so too. However, if a majority of the contributors
> agree that we want both a participant's voice and money, I see no reason why
> a few should force a U-turn."
>
My response:
If the fund drive group is not speaking for all Gambians, this is fine
because I have said that so long as they do not proceed to give the impression that
they are presenting a document that represents the views of Gambians in the
diaspora at large without consulting them, they can do whatever they like. If
you are confirming this, then I would suggest that they should make it very
clear in any document they present to the opposition parties at home, that they
are speaking strictly for the fund drive group, and not every Gambian in the
diaspora who was not allowed to belong to the group.
Again Joe, if the implication is that the opposition parties in The Gambia
will respond to the idea of a colaition only on the promise of money, that is in
itself a great discredit to the reason for their existence in the first
place. I'd like to think that they exist because they believe they can do what is
best for our country and what will take it forward, and no that they will only
undertake to do what is needed at this critical juncture because someone came
to them dangling some money on a string.
You wrote:
> "If we say we are democratic, why do the very few keep trying to
> change the course of the majority? And I frankly do not believe that Jabou
> or Conteh could not contribute and at the same time join to discussion in
> the listserve."
>
> My response:
Joe, which majority are you talking about? The number of members on the fund
drive listserve was not more than 12 people when I joined it, ,and it was
advocated that ther were enough people on it already and it should be closed to
new membership.
We saw the list of subscribers and potential subscribers in the email that
you and Laye Jallow sent to G-L. Does that constitute the majority of Gambians
or are you talking about the majority of money contributors?
If you are talking about the contributors to the fund, ,it has already been
expressed that they are free to set any limits, so long as there is not an
implication that they are speakign for all Gambians in the Disapora.
> You wrote:
> Folks, we started this effort since April, what have we achieved, aside
> from
> what the contributors have put up and the pledge from the Alternative. The
> rest has been talk, talk, and some more talk. At this rate, 2006 will be
> upon us and we will still be running on the same spot. Thank God no one has
> a monopoly of starting a listserve to exercise their rights to not
> contribute to anything that they do not wish to. I am with the majority
> decision. The Save The Gambia Fund is to fund our ideas (contributors
> ideas) not all Gambians and I do not think it is representing anyone that
> does not wish to be represented. Conteh just stated that he wants the
> Alternative to listen to the demands of NC, that is their right, Why?
> Because they feel they have money in their hand. The same applies to folks
> in Scandinavia that would contribute only if they choose their own
> candidate. Yet, others want to not contribute but want to dictate policy.
> And so the demands continue to pile on."
My response:
Joe, I am not advocating for the set up of an laternative list because I have
want to set up a private club as you and Laye Jallow have tried to imply
although my reasons are clear and understandable to anyone who reads them, nor am
I doing it because I have money in my hands, nor would I ever contribute to
the notion that we should use money to entice the opposition parties at home to
do what is seen as their duty in our time of need. I am advocating for all
Gambians to have a voice in this process, and because they are prevented from
being a part of the list you and others have set up although you are discussing
Gambians affairs in which they should have a voice, I am advocating that the
people organize so that they can discuss the issues together and reach a
consensus as to what to present to the opposition parties as our contribution as to
what a coalition should be composed of and what they should accomplish.
Let us not forget that the political process is meant to represent the people
although we tend ot forget that very easily in Africa.
Once we have done this, and the response from the politicians looks promising
and we know we have something real, we can work to support them in all the
ways we need to. I should think that encouraging the opposition parties to come
up with detailed guidelines for the coalition is a good way to make sure that
things will be organized in a more timely manner than trying to get people to
contribute funds to something that has not been clearly outlined so that
people know what it si they are funding.
However, everyone is entitled ot their own strategy, and if you are convinced
that this a more effective way to proceed, and to encourage people to fund
this effort, then that is your right.
I was hoping that since we are trying to encourage participation on the
political process, and especially since we are trying to foster cooperation among
the opposition parties, we might set an example for cooperation for more
effective results as opposed to going the usual Gambian way of faction groups.
Jabou Joh
>
> >From: [log in to unmask]
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Opposition Coalition
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:28:09 EDT
> >
> >In a message dated 8/18/03 8:35:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >[log in to unmask]
> >writes:
> >
> > > <<Like you, I have expressed my opinion in contrast to the notion that
> >only
> > > those who have actually "put their money where their mouth is" ought to
> >be
> > > part of the list-serve that is set up for discussion, which I am
> >currently
> > > running. But there seem to be the wisdon of majority in that regard so
> > > far.>>
> >
> >Laye Jallow & Joe Sambou,
> >
> >Thanks to you and Joe Sambou for posting the address of the listserve of
> >the
> >coalition fund.
> >Laye, you had stated that I should not refrain from joining the group just
> >because my wishes are not met, or something to that effect. Please excuse
> >my
> >choice of words if it conveys something else other than what I intend it to
> >convey, but I think you get the gist of what I mean.
> >
> >However, although you have made it clear that you also do not share the
> >view
> >that only those who subscribe to the fund should be allowed to join the
> >list (
> >I commend you for that) the fact still remains that Joe Sambou has
> >reiterated
> >that the purpose of the list was for fund raising and that the list
> >guidelines stated that only those paying into the fund should be part of
> >the list.
> >He also said that when Dr Saine wrote the guidelines for the fund drive and
> >asked for suggestions or changes, everyone acepted the guidelines. How was
> >it
> >determined that everyone accepted the guidelines, ,and was there a
> >condition
> >that the imput from people have to be given by a particular deadline or
> >they are
> >no longer acceptable?
> >However, I have stated numberous times already that if the fund drive wants
> >to keep these guidelines, this is their choice and is fine, so long as that
> >list is restricted to teh collection of funds only.
> >
> >To be fair, I did join the list and what I witnessed also confirmed to me
> >that the prevailing wisdom on that list was that only those who pay into
> >the fund
> >can be part of the list, and according to the response that people who
> >objected to this notion received, there did not seem to be a willingness
> >then nor
> >now to be flexible as far as this was concerned, and I think Joe Sambou's
> >response to Conteh has also proven that there does not seem to be any
> >changes
> >regarding that opinion.
> >Therefore, in this regard, and also because Joe Sambou has also confirmed
> >what all of us know, he said:
> >
> >"Issues facing us must be addressed. What is the platform for a a
> >coalition? How long should the nominee serve? How many terms should the
> >nominee serve? How can we meet the leaders of the opposition or their
> >representatives in the U.S.? "
> >
> >This is exactly true and I believe that this issue mentioned above is a
> >separate issue from that of the fund drive, especially since those
> >instrumental in
> >the fund drive as well as others on that list serve have made it clear what
> >the guidelines of belonging to the list are. The guidelines limit
> >participation
> >and since the issue of working out the details of a colaition should be a
> >matter of public debate among Gambians, I think that to undertake the issue
> >of
> >the details of a coalition on a list that has set limits as to who can
> >participate is inappropriate and limits the rights of Gambians to take part
> >in this
> >process, which the members of the fund drive listserve do not have neither
> >the
> >mandate nor the right to do.
> >
> >Therefore, I think the fund drive listserve undertakings should be
> >separate
> >from the debate to work out the details of a coalition. I think we need to
> >invlove as many Gambians as possible in that process, and I also think
> >that the
> >politicians should make an effort to talk to us as well as we to them
> >because
> >it is not just an issue of collecting funds for them and letting them do
> >what
> >they think is best for us. This is the issue those of us who want to see a
> >coalition become reality first before collecting funds are talking about.
> >
> >Gambians need to have an imput because these people are representing us. My
> >experience with the last election was that at least with one political
> >party,
> >even simple questions were not responded to, leaving the impression that
> >they
> >were telling us to merely collect funds and we do not need to answer any
> >questions. These politicians claim to be working for a sociaty where every
> >Gambian
> >has a voice, yet, when they run into Gambians who know they can have a
> >voice,
> >there seems to be the notion that they do not owe us any response, feedback
> >etc. We all saw the results of what self interest and a lack of sincerity
> >to the
> >committment to form a coalition of all opposition parties despite the
> >impressions given affested the outcome of the last elections.
> >
> >The opposition parties know that a solid opposition coalition is the only
> >hope there is in the next elections and we as regular citizens who want to
> >support this idea must also have the responsibility to make sure that we
> >see to it
> >that we do not just provide them with funds, ,but that we make sure that
> >all
> >the things that will result in the coalition becoming a reality are put
> >into
> >place, that it is sincere and real, and as many Gambians have as much
> >imput into
> >that process as possible. Then we can feel confident that there will be a
> >true representation of the pople,and we can work hard as heck to collect
> >funds
> >to back them.
> >This is the idea, and not that one is interested in forming any meaningless
> >faction groups that has not helped us throughout our political history and
> >will
> >never help us in any way.
> >
> >However, again, if folks want to collect funds starting now, it makes sense
> >that only contributors to that effort should be part of the list set up for
> >that purpose, and that is fine, but please do not infringe upon and hinder
> > the
> >people's right to participate in this process by undertaking to have the
> >effort regarding the details of the coalition to be discussed in the fund
> >drive
> >list which has set limits for participation and regarding which limitation
> >they are unwilling to be flexible.
> >
> >Jabou Joh
> >
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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