Abdou,

Are you sure it's my posting you are responding to?

All I said was question if your problem is no longer with a United Africa. I
did that because of your earlier apparent pessimism about the issue, then
went on to show you that contrary to your assertion accumulation of
properety is NOT as old as 'history'. What "Europeans" and "neoliberalism"
have to do with that I do not know

I did not know either that Dr. Diop has produced a work called "-Black
civilization-fact realities and myth the hypothesis of ancient Eygptian
civilization is Black..." (SIC) What I am aware of and have read is "The
African Origin of Civilisation - Myth or reality?" though what that too
would have to do with the issue at hand I can't see.

Excuse me if I fail to fathom what the rest has got to do with anything I
wrote.

Regards,

Kabir.


On 7/7/07, ABDOUKARIM SANNEH <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Kabir
> Thanks for your prompt reply. I alway dream for united Africa. In
> looking at the portion in the works of Walter Rodney stated even before
> our people came into contact with European we are a development people
> having our own institutions. They are lot of physical anthropological
> truth or evidence in that statement. In Chekh Anta Diop's work -Black
> civilization-fact
> realities and myth the hypothesis of ancient Eygptian civilization for
> been
> Black African  proof through carbon dating of samples. How can we
> regain  our
> position in history. Which small economy is Africa has dominate the force
> of
> neoliberal economy of globalisation? Kibir non for that matter. We are
> only still a source of raw material for developed economy. How can we
> use globalisation to our advantage is through one union Government.
> Today China is using capitalism to its advantage without a hint to global
> warming. United States did not sign the Kyoto convention because of
> critically assessment of its impact to American economy. Many narrow
> minded African leaders continue assess the real benefit of Union
> Government to the havenot because not understand the present global
> political economy.
>
>
> Kabir Njaay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  Abdou,
>
> I see your problem now is no longer with a United Africa?
>
> No! "Accumulation of private property is" NOT "as old of the history of
> mankind..." (SIC)
>
> Only a couple of days ago you requested and got a link to Rodney's famous
> work. Right at the beginning of the book he made it clear that in the
> beginning humans lived in a 'communal' setting. Under communalism, humans
> did not accumulate wealth. The fruits of their labour was divided equally
> among them.
>
> On the rest, I am sure 'pambazuka' will only be too happy to publish a
> rebuttal of Taju's concept from you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kabir.
>
> On 7/7/07, ABDOUKARIM SANNEH wrote:
> >
> > Kabir thanks for the forward. Once again what a good commentary from
> > Tajudeen Abdul Raheem. I disagree that nelliberalism is bad for our
> > continent.Thabo Mbeki neoliberal ideal and Anti-Gadaffi have no linkage
> > with the way forward Continental Unification. If Africa want to make an
> > impact in global economy our leaders should put their act together for a
> > union style of Government. It can be a form of treaty or constitution
> which
> > should be filter to the grassroot for their involvement in a form of
> voting.
> > Neoliberalism is not evil with emphaise on social justice, human
> development
> > and poltical rights. Accumulation of private property is as old of the
> > history of mankind but the state should also have the social
> responsibility
> > to equally distribute the common goods such as land, water, energy etc.
> > African Union should the led the fight towards such dynamic. We can only
> > take our real position with the emerge of visionary leaders.
> >
> > Kabir Njaay wrote: Pan-African Postcard
> >
> > Death by committee
> >
> > http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/panafrican/42392
> >
> > Tajudeen Abdul Raheem (2007-07-05)
> >
> > African leaders have again squandered yet another opportunity, an
> historic
> > one, to lead decisively. Instead they have gone for the least common
> > denominator, the line of least resistance, by deciding not to decide.
> The
> > all-important issue of a Government of the Union that was billed as The
> > Grand Debate at the recently concluded AU summit, has been referred to
> yet
> > another committee that will report at the next summit in January in
> Addis
> > Ababa.
> >
> > We are all familiar with the saying that the best way to kill an idea is
> > to
> > form a committee about it. How many more committees do we need to make
> > this
> > decision?
> >
> > The so-called debate itself was the result of a study presented to the
> > heads
> > of state that has taken almost two years to complete. All the arguments
> > for
> > and against were contained in the report and the three options were
> clear.
> > One, immediate formation of a Union government. Two, a gradual process
> > leading to Union Government by consolidation of regional economic
> > communities and economic convergence. And last, the formation of a Union
> > Government that gives political authority to the AU in specified areas,
> > aligns national policies to continental policies, and rationalises the
> > RECS
> > to become affective building blocs for the Union Government.
> >
> > Wherever one stands on this debate, deciding on these issues is vital to
> > move forward. Too many decisions, agreements, protocols have been made,
> > agreed or signed at the continental level without any implementation at
> > the
> > national level. The suggestion of a Union Government was meant to give
> an
> > effective legal and political framework to these agreements and a
> > mandatory
> > enforcement mechanism.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the huge ego, razzmatazz and showmanship of the
> > brother-leader, Muammar Gaddafi, the champion of the accelerated
> > Union-track, has beclouded the real issues feeding the prejudice of all
> > Gadaffi-phobic and Arab phobic and sub-Saharan obscurantists. President
> > Thabo Mbeki of South Africa who is leading the anti-Gaddafi and
> anti-Union
> > Government charge, liberally exploited these sentiments to actually
> > subvert
> > the debate due to the interests of South African capital and its
> expansion
> > across this continent without any obligation towards our social commune.
> >
> > The South African manoeuvre also tapped into the deep-seated alienation
> of
> > many Africans about our governments, their distrust of political
> leaders,
> > and cynicism that our leaders don't mean what they say or say what they
> > mean.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Mbeki's neoliberal agenda was unwittingly aided and
> abetted
> > by the ambiguity displayed by Nigeria's new President, Umar Musa Yar'
> > Adua.
> > Yar' Adua was obviously not properly briefed by his benefactor and the
> > Nigerian foreign policy elite about a third position championed by
> former
> > President Obasanjo, and supported by Uganda, Senegal and other leaders
> in
> > the Heads of State committee set up to look into the issue. They were
> > supposed to report to the Summit but with clear timelines and concrete
> > steps
> > about what will be Union issues, further reforms of the charter,
> > strengthening of representational institutions like the Pan-African
> > Parliament and also taking a decision on the RECS.
> >
> > But when Yar Adua spoke in his maiden Summit address, he sounded like
> all
> > he
> > was interested in were the RECs, thereby strengthening the Mbeki
> > supporters.
> >
> > Obasanjo was too busy trying to get Yar' Adua to Aso Rock to update him
> on
> > Nigeria's position on African and global matters. The enemies of the
> Union
> > Government are not just neoliberal governments but also must be some of
> > the
> > bureaucrats in the Union and NEPAD. The old OAU bureaucrats were afraid
> of
> > the Union and fought its restructuring before and after the
> extraordinary
> > summit in Shirte in 1999. Now they are fighting to defend the Union they
> > opposed because we now want to reform it further to create a viable
> > institution with political authority.
> >
> > Many of them are incompetent and got their positions due to political
> > barter
> > and horse-trading and want to maintain them at all costs. But all is not
> > lost yet. At least no one dares to argue against the Union and the Union
> > Government in principle any more. What they are arguing about is when
> and
> > how.
> >
> > Therefore, the debate in the next six months in all our countries should
> > shift to the streets, seminar halls, parliaments, county halls and at
> all
> > levels to challenge our leaders and democratise the discussion so that
> by
> > the January Summit there is a clear and unambiguous message that we are
> > ready for a Union Government with a clear timetable. South Africa is
> happy
> > for its businesses to be free to exploit the rest of the continent.
> Their
> > attitude is like that of Britain towards Europe. However, British
> > reluctance
> > did not stop the Germans and the French and other Europeans to move
> > forward.
> >
> > Those countries that are willing and ready should begin to take the
> > necessary steps that will make unity concrete for our peoples and not
> wait
> > until everybody agrees.
> >
> > * Tajudeen Abdul-Raheem is the Deputy Director for the UN Millennium
> > Campaign in Africa, based in Nairobi, Kenya. He writes this article in
> his
> > personal capacity as a concerned Pan-Africanist.
> >
> > * Please send comments to [log in to unmask] or comment online at
> > http://www.pambazuka.org/
> >
> >
> > We are all familiar with the saying that the best way to kill an idea is
> > to
> > form a committee about it. How many more committees do we need to make
> > this
> > decision?
> >
> > The so-called debate itself was the result of a study presented to the
> > Heads
> > of State that has taken almost two years to complete. All the arguments
> > for
> > and against were contained in the report and the three options were
> clear.
> > One, immediate formation of a Union government. Two, a gradual process
> > leading to Union Government by consolidation of regional economic
> > communities and economic convergence. And last, the formation of a Union
> > Government that gives political authority to the AU in specified areas,
> > aligns national policies to continental policies, and rationalises the
> > RECS
> > to become affective building blocs for the Union Government.
> >
> > Wherever one stands on this debate, deciding on these issues is vital to
> > move forward. Too many decisions, agreements, protocols have been made,
> > agreed or signed at the continental level without any implementation at
> > the
> > national level. The suggestion of a Union Government was meant to give
> an
> > effective legal and political framework to these agreements and a
> > mandatory
> > enforcement mechanism.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the huge ego, razzmatazz and showmanship of the
> > brother-leader, Muammar Gaddafi, the champion of the accelerated
> > Union-track, has beclouded the real issues feeding the prejudice of all
> > Gadaffi-phobic and Arab phobic and sub-Saharan obscurantists. President
> > Thabo Mbeki of South Africa who is leading the anti-Gaddafi and
> anti-Union
> > Government charge, liberally exploited these sentiments to actually
> > subvert
> > the debate due to the interests of South African capital and its
> expansion
> > across this continent without any obligation towards our social commune.
> >
> > The South African manoeuvre also tapped into the deep-seated alienation
> of
> > many Africans about our governments, their distrust of political
> leaders,
> > and cynicism that our leaders don't mean what they say or say what they
> > mean.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Mbeki's neo- liberal agenda was unwittingly aided and
> > abetted
> > by the ambiguity displayed by Nigeria's new President, Umar Musa Yar'
> > Adua.
> > Yar' Adua was obviously not properly briefed by his benefactor and the
> > Nigerian foreign policy elite about a third position championed by
> former
> > President Obasanjo, and supported by Uganda, Senegal and other leaders
> in
> > the Heads of State committee set up to look into the issue. They were
> > supposed to report to the Summit but with clear timelines and concrete
> > steps
> > about what will be Union issues, further reforms of the charter,
> > strengthening of representational institutions like the Pan-African
> > Parliament and also taking a decision on the RECS.
> >
> > But when Yar Adua spoke in his maiden Summit address, he sounded like
> all
> > he
> > was interested in were the RECs, thereby strengthening the Mbeki
> > supporters.
> >
> > Obasanjo was too busy trying to get Yar' Adua to Aso Rock to update him
> on
> > Nigeria's position on African and global matters. The enemies of the
> Union
> > Government are not just neo-liberal governments but also must be some of
> > the
> > bureaucrats in the Union and NEPAD. The old OAU bureaucrats were afraid
> of
> > the Union and fought its restructuring before and after the
> extraordinary
> > summit in Shirte in 1999. Now they are fighting to defend the Union they
> > opposed because we now want to reform it further to create a viable
> > institution with political authority.
> >
> > Many of them are incompetent and got their positions due to political
> > barter
> > and horse-trading and want to maintain them at all costs. But all is not
> > lost yet. At least no one dares to argue against the Union and the Union
> > Government in principle any more. What they are arguing about is when
> and
> > how.
> >
> > Therefore, the debate in the next six months in all our countries should
> > shift to the streets, seminar halls, parliaments, county halls and at
> all
> > levels to challenge our leaders and democratise the discussion so that
> by
> > the January Summit there is a clear and unambiguous message that we are
> > ready for a Union Government with a clear timetable. South Africa is
> happy
> > for its businesses to be free to exploit the rest of the continent.
> Their
> > attitude is like that of Britain towards Europe. However, British
> > reluctance
> > did not stop the Germans and the French and other Europeans to move
> > forward.
> >
> > Those countries that are willing and ready should begin to take the
> > necessary steps that will make unity concrete for our peoples and not
> wait
> > until everybody agrees.
> >
> > * Tajudeen Abdul-Raheem is the Deputy Director for the UN Millennium
> > Campaign in Africa, based in Nairobi, Kenya. He writes this article in
> his
> > personal capacity as a concerned Pan-Africanist.
> >
> > * Please send comments to [log in to unmask] or comment online at
> > http://www.pambazuka.org/
> >
> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
> Gambia-L
> > Web interface
> > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
> > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
> > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> >
> >
> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the
> Gambia-L
> > Web interface
> > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
> > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
> > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> >
>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface
> at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
> [log in to unmask]
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface
> at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
> [log in to unmask]
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html

To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤