MR. SARR:

Very many thanks for your excellent philosophical analyses and fact
presentation as to how the so-called ardent Gam-L Rules should be applied
and administered. It is well said. Just to add one particular point here,
that is to say, WHAT WAS THE MAJOR CRIME THAT KUJABI COMMITTED WHICH LED TO
THE CENSORSHIP SINCE FEBRUARY? I want the two List Managers who took it upon
themselves to monitor me for the past 6 months to come out from the cold and
state in VIVID TERMS what it was that drove them crazy about Kujabi's
violations that warranted such an unprecedented step being taken to utilize
the entire FBI APPARATUS and RESOURCES of the L in monitoring Kujabi. Not to
end their, but I want the two Managers to also spell out clearly the EXACT
FOUL LANGUAGE Kujabi had used and more fundamentally, against WHOM was that
particular found Language used? In this way every Ler will see for
himself/herself what was the MAJOR CRIME committed by Kujabi, period.
Frankly, I could not recalled what I had used which warranted a censorship.
The worst of my foul language I constantly used are: STUPIDITY, DRY
INTELLECTUALISM, CAFE INTELLECTUALISM, DOGODOGO, MORON ETC. And these words,
I will always continue to use them, period. Therefore, I do not see any word
amongst the above, which will definitely warrant the APPLICATION of the
ENTIRE GAM-L APPARATUS and RESOURCES on monitoring Kujabi. This tantamount
to nothing, but DOUBLE STANDARD, period.

Whiles we have the ESSAS, KEBBA JOKES, ALIEU CEESAYS, MANLAFY JARJUS, ALIEU
KEITAS, OMAR NDOWS putting us through hell, and yet these folks have been
give a free ride through the GALAXIES of the Forum. But we still have to
censor the likes of Kujabi, who is giving MORON JAMMEH hell. Is it because
Kujabi is becoming too aggressive against the MORON? If that is the case,
folks, let me sing a little MORON SONG which will please him so that I could
have a VIP treatment from the L Management. As Mr. Sarr put bluntly,
gentlemen, lets grow up and intensify the struggle, but not to make people
PUKE here, just to borrow from Saul Khan. This is my BUTUTU in this. God
bless.

Ansumana.


>From: Mr Makaveli <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: My Perspectives On The Gambia-L Rules Et Al
>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:49:09 -0500
>
>Folks,
>  On the issue of Gambia-L rules, I'm just curious as to how many times
>we have to remind each other that we are NOT miniature adults here and
>that we expect a certain level of respect from one another, even when we
>disagree. Hell, life has never been easy for our brothers and sisters, and
>although I try very hard to not trivialize the issues raise by many of
>you, I simply cannot condone to the notion that List Managers should be
>acting as Bounty Hunters, Judge and Jury, as well as Parole and Probation
>Officers, all at the same time. This to me is time consuming, counter-
>productive  and at best a little far-fetching.And if that's the case they
>might as well transform Gambia-L into a Support Group facility if you know
>what I mean. Remeber one time they have this thing where you introduce
>yourself when you first subscribe to the G_L , like this :
>[ACTION!]...
>   Hi everyone, my name is such and such and I am a recovering acoholic and
>   I...................bada-bong..bada-bang..bada-bing (o-:)lol
>[CUT!].
>Think I'm joking? Maybe I am but you see what I'm getting at. I'm just
>glad no taxpayer's 'dalasis' have been exhausted to the last 'butut' on
>such a fruitless campaign to silence some list members in the opposition.
>What a trend this has become lately. One strike and you outta here. Yuk!
>Ladies and gentlemen, censorship is a billion dollar business and I'm sure
>this NO news to many of you. Please let us not waste time and resources on
>this.
>
>I also understand it that Mr Ansumana Kujabi has been on probation since
>February and no one ever heard from Prof Assan anymore. The Essa Thomases
>are about to follow suit,all gone for good, and by the time we realize that
>the rules in place are horrendously deficient in judgment and lack merit
>nor moral ground, many what could have been fine contributors will be
>forced to hit the superhighway of what is infact modern technology if in
>fact such rules arre not deregulated in the interest of all and sundry.
>All these euphoric brouhaha for breaking vagrant rules in a cyber forum?
>Even world renown hackers don't spend that much time in the penitentiary .
>Just as I abhor adding fuel to a burning fire and hate to uncompromise the
>competence of our poor List Managers who have to put up with us (Gambians),
>I simply just don't idly believe that having these Supreme Court decision
>making tactics in cyber forum is the solution to the problem. For some us
>maybe, but certainly not for all us. The 'Delete' button on our keyboard
>has a very specific purpose. No need for me to explain what for.The fact
>remains that you goona have the Kebba Jobes who proudly chose to hide their
>identity, say whatever they feel like and have no same or repercussions. He
>keeps telling us his identity is not the issue but those who write here
>with their real names are forced to be accountable with what they write
>here. So it does no justice treat the likes of Kebba Jobe lightly while
>putting the Ansumana Kujabis, who I may add uses his real name, under such
>intense microscopic scrutiny. Because The Ansumana Kujabis use their real
>name they either defend themselves by putting their points across and
>apologize whe they see any wrong-doing. But for the Kebba Jobes, what do
>they have to loose. They don't take the risk many of us who use our real
>names put ourselves when we provide damaging information to say the APRC
>for instance. For all I know they can curse at anyone they choose, get
>delisted and come back with 5 or 10 alias and still do whatever their heart
>desires. To that note, purnishment to those who use their real name seems
>more severe. I can go and on with other incidences but as you see folks,
>it is almost impossible to control a forum of consenting adults of this
>magnitude. That is why we should be open minded and try to have a certain
>level of respect for one another. if our conscience doesn't help us, our
>emotions will not either.
>
>In a forum where the overwhelming majority are speaking out daily to free
>Dumo et al, I find it rather ironic that, that same forum is in contempt
>with trying to incarcerate some it's most ardent and loyal members,putting
>them incommunicado and giving them persona non-grata status. What we have
>to understand that a lot of us in the struggle for the restoration of
>democrasy, peace and justice are indeen very oppressed, subjected to all
>forms of injustice and so in light of this fact we should expect emotions
>to run high and have few ugly altercations here and there. Overall what is
>paramount to note at the end of the day is that the essence/rudiments of
>participatory dialogue among fellow Gambians must be allowed to exist
>over the ilks preconceived misconceptions. Views will differs and it is the
>responsibilities of list members to matters into their own hands and
>apologize when one is needed as opposed to list managers trying to micro-
>manage what they have no control over. They should more worried about
>keeping the mail servers up and running and making sure our mails get
>through to all recipients. Why try to baby-sit grown adults? Gambia-L is
>simply a medium that publishes the postings to offer readers a new glimpse
>into the working of engaged political discource in the struggle for human
>rights and democracy, and of coursce including many other interests. What
>good then would it be if we turn this wonderful medium into some hereditary
>nobility where it's either one way or the highway?
>
>Whatever happened to rehabitation as opposed to purnishment. Make people
>aware of the repercussions of their actions and try to make the best of
>heated situations. A bad action is best left undone. One is punished later
>for a bad action. But a good deed is best done, for which one will not be
>punished for doing it. Though some perspectives on crime and punishment
>support the contemporary movement toward restorative justice in place of
>retributive, the history of punishment is in some respects like the
>history of war; it seems to accompany the human condition almost
>universally, to enjoy periods of glorification, to be commonly regarded as
>justified in many instances, and yet to run counter to our ultimate vision
>of what human society should be.
>
>The question that comes to mind is :Why do we punish? Say the likes of
>innocent people like Dumo et al as well as The Ansumana Kujabas et al? It
>may seem an odd question, but only until we try to answer it. To punish is
>to harm, and harming must be justified.Three types of justification are
>usually offered: the harm of punishment is outweighed by some greater good
>(for example, it deters others); punishment does not really harm offenders
>(because it reforms them); and harming offenders is good in itself
>(because retribution “annuls the crime“). However, each of these reasons
>becomes problematical when examined.
>
>The first argument is a utilitarian one, and the usual objections against
>utilitarianism are all the more pointed when the issue is justice. It
>seems immoral to harm someone because we want to influence others’
>behavior; such a principle could also be used to justify scapegoating
>innocents. This is not just an abstract refutation, for there is the
>uncomfortable possibility that offenders today have become our scapegoats
>for larger social problems. And from a practical point of view this
>justification does not seem to be working. If punishment warns other would-
>be offenders, why does the United States , which incarcerates a larger
>percentage of its population than any other industrialized country,
>continue to have the one of the very highest crime rates?
>
>The second argument, that punishment does not really harm the offender,
>has some force, but is not usually true today. The Quakers may have
>intended the penitentiary to be a place of penitence, but that meaning has
>long been lost, and there is little doubt that incarceration makes most
>offenders worse. As often happens, an institution that does not fulfill
>its ORIGINAL PURPOSE (List Managers please note the emphasis)continues to
>exist for other reasons—in this case because, to tell the truth, we do not
>know what else to do with most offenders except remove them to places
>where they will be unable to re-offend.
>
>The third argument, that harming offenders is good in itself, is more
>complicated because it incorporates several types of justifications.
>Historically the most common, and (although we do not like to admit it)
>perhaps still prevalent, is the desire for vengeance. In many cases this
>is understandable, but it is nevertheless morally unacceptable and socially
>destructive, undoubtedly counter to our ultimate vision of what human
>society should be. These reasons ladies and gentlemen for me to believe
>that we need to re-evaluate our approach to punishing fellow comrades, even
>our most hated enemies.
>
>I hate to be philosophical about all this, ladies and  gentlemen but what
>is paramount, I think, is that we try to be more open-minded and open the
>lines of communication, making room for tolerance and sound judgement in
>the process, as opposed to rushing to judgement. In short, treat eachother
>as adults and NOT miniature adults. Let those who break these rules of
>ethics offer their apologies rather than trying to castigate them into
>oblivion, or solitary confinement. No one is perfect. Show me one who is
>perfect and I'll show you what a pathological liar he or she is .The G_L
>approach to punishment, like any other approach to punishment, cannot
>really be separated from its understanding of human psychology (especially
>motivation and intention); of the relationship between the individual and
>society; and, last but not least, of its vision of human possibility, of
>what a good life is or can be for some of these list members, if given the
>(second, maybe third)chances they deserve. That is it . I done.
>
>                                                  Au Revoir,
>                                                  George Sarr (Real Name)
>                                                  Mr Makaveli ( Alias)
>
>
>
>
>From: Ansumana Kujabi <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: On The Gambia-L Rules
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Date: Jun 21, 2001
>
>
>SAUL:
>
>Thanks 1000 times for your input. As always you have approached this
>situation maturely. Frankly, the gang of two have STRETCHED THE ENVELOPE of
>the GAM-L RULES. It all boiled down to EMOTIONS. Why monitor Kujabi, whiles
>we have the KEBBA JOKES and ESSAS putting us through hell. I was kinda
>surprised to see the people keep monitoring me intensely since FEBRUARY
>2001; absolutely pathetic. This will NEVER EVER distract me from hitting my
>points home. This is MY CITIZEN DUTY to give it all I have in the struggle
>in fighting for the RESTORATION of DEMOCRACY and the RULE of LAW back home.
>Our beautiful country, which had been FIRM FRIENDS with the International
>Community is NOW ISOLATED  as a result of the REBEL GOVERNMENT we have at
>home. But the MORON'S DAYS are numbered. Therefore, as HISTORY always
>teaches us great lessons, one should be REALLY VERY CAREFUL and PRUDENT in
>the way you go about your life, otherwise, when that returns, a day when we
>will all gather to account for our actions, we will have some in our midst
>who will look the other way; or they might even regret their actions that
>day. To that end, I think there should be a LEVELED PLAYING FIELD for every
>contributor in this forum, period. God Bless.
>
>Ansumana
>
>
>
>
>Gambians Online " Designed With The Gambian People In Mind"
>                http://www.gambiansonline.com
>
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