Sorry about the typo error, I meant "and courts again function decently" instead of indecently.
Dave Manneh wrote:
> Mrs Joh,
> I think I can say with confidence that we will agree to disagree on this one.
> I respect your point, and I hope yo can see mine in a fair-minded view too.
> The land is my inheritance, and we will do everything in our power to see that people do not just come and
> rob us of that. Taf may have the land today, but as we are all hoping and praying, when Jammed and his idiots
> are banished, and courts again function indecently,
> that we shall battle him court.
> In the meantime I cease to exchange views (or even worse, emotions) on this issue with you.
>
> Lots of respect
> Manneh
>
> Jabou Joh wrote:
>
> > Manneh,
> > You ask if the carving up of The Gambia was democratic. No it was not,
> > neither was the carving up of Africa by foreign invaders.
> > You also seem to be amused by my reference to The Gambia as an organized
> > country. I think you are putting the emphasis on the wrong word here. I do
> > not mean that the state of the country is organized, far from it, and any
> > idiot can see that.
> > What I mean is that it is a country, a unit recognized by the international
> > community as well as the people in Gambia as a country. So, it is not a
> > kingdom anymore, but a country, The Gambia.
> > Your comments lead me to perhaps think that since the forming of this country
> > was not ideal and against the will of the people, then it is something you
> > would rather not have? That sentiment is a little belated if that is the case.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > Elementary, and does not follow the same logic, why I ask? Kingdoms are/were
> > organized around groups of people too who have something in common, or is
> > that not so???
> >
> > Yes indeed, they were, but I again remind you Mr Manneh, that we are not in a
> > kingdom (despite Yaya Jammeh's attempts to pass himself off as a mansa) but
> > in a modern day country that is struggling to form a fair and just society
> > where all rightns are protected.
> >
> > I am glad that your people so generoulsy gave land to some people, but the
> > fact that some Gambians see themselves as sole owners of large parcels of
> > land which they can then dole out to the rest who of us who appear to be just
> > squatters is nevertheless a troubling notion to me.
> >
> > Haruna Darboe gave me a lesson in Native American reservation land which I
> > already know vey well.
> > Haruna, if you look at the size of the United States, and look at the
> > proportion of the rest of the land against what is actually Reservation land,
> > you will see that this is clearly not a situation where the indegenous people
> > have the majority of the land with a smaller portion left for the rest of the
> > non Native Americans. Infact, in some instances, for. e.g on Long Island, a
> > couple of the Reservations sit on rocky land that one cannot even farm, and I
> > know this from spending time on these Reservations visiting Native American
> > friends who live there, but that is another matter altogether.
> >
> > I cannot infact say here that I know the proportion of Gambian land that is
> > held by klans, and what is left for the rest of us. Perhaps if you or anyone
> > else has some statistics on this, then that will give us a better picture of
> > the situation.
> >
> > My commentary speaks to fairness and the funcioning of a modern day country
> > which for all intents and purposes, all of us subscribe to. This is why we
> > bother to form political parties, nominate cnadidates, conduct elections all
> > of which are or should be governed by laws that are put into place hopefully
> > by a collective agreement of the society.These laws should attempt to promote
> > fairness at all times, and land allocation is definitely part of that.
> >
> > If the Klans who hold this land in our country see themselves as mere
> > authorities who are serving as the governing bodies in their respective
> > jursidictions, and in much the same way that givernment is in terms of land
> > that is termed government controlled land, and who then will give out land to
> > any Gambian who comes asking, regardless of their origins and who is not a
> > member of their klan, then this is fine, so long as that system is uniformly
> > operated. Is this infact the case?
> >
> > For the sake of fairness and to safeguard the rights of all Gambians, this is
> > a matter that I personally think needs reviewing by a government that is fair
> > and knows what they are doing, and not one that will undoubtedly use the
> > occasion for their own agenda, no one is proposing that. The kingdoms and any
> > other organized community in that vein is no longer what governs our country,
> > and all people born in The Gambia are Gambians by birthright, and they cannot
> > be subject to a system or laws that were in the past and therefore irrelevant
> > to our circumstances.
> >
> > Jabou Joh
> >
> > In a message dated 7/7/2001 4:26:43 AM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
> > writes:
> >
> > >
> > > Mrs Joh,
> > > Thank you for making some of the issues clearer. I thought you were a
> > > fair-minded person
> > > and when your point came across as if you were agreeing with the injustice
> > > happening in Brufut,
> > > I was taken aback by the nonchalance. But as you have now made your point
> > > clearer, I can see
> > > that was not the case.
> > >
> > > If you go over my last piece again, you will see that I wrote that in fact
> > > we give/gave land free to
> > > people, (even non Gambians) you cannot get any fairer than that. Money
> > > making from land has
> > > become a sad reality in the last few years or so, merely because of
> > > Brufut's proximity to the Tourist
> > > Development Area. Where people come from, what their religion was did not
> > > bother us a bit, when
> > > giving them land, their need for land overrides their tribe, religion or
> > > race.
> > >
> > > My point in pointing out where you dad originates from was not to tell you
> > > that you can go
> > > and claim land, but rather that if you make enquiries you would/may come to
> > > realize that they too
> > > had/have land which traditionally belongs to them. They must have farmed
> > > somewhere down
> > > the history, and so if they did, they must have had land to farm on. If you
> > > deduce anything
> > > else from it, then you be my guest. I know of your dad's origin cause as I
> > > said your sister is
> > > married to my uncle. You are free to deduce any meaning from the question
> > > you like, I
> > > am not going to be apologetic about that.
> > >
> > >
> > > "If one wants to follow an old system of land ownership, then
> > > perhaps it would
> > > have been more suitable to have stayed in those communities that
> > > they cleared
> > > and farmed, and not look to have both the advantage of belonging to
> > > an
> > > organized country and still enjoy the priviledges of not adopting a
> > > system of
> > > land ownership that is fair to the country as a whole."
> > >
> > > Are you serious about this? An organized country, the Gambia?? Think that
> > > through again.
> > > Again I reiterate, we gave/give land free to people. All they needed to
> > > bring was kola nuts.
> > > I think that is fair and humane, as their need for housing and farming
> > > overrides any monetary
> > > gains we will get by selling land to them.
> > >
> > > "You asked why there are countries if people did not own land.
> > > Well, this is
> > > elementary and does not follow the same logic. Countries are
> > > organized around
> > > groups of people who have something or want something in common,
> > > and then
> > > within that parcel of land that constitutes the country,
> > > individuals have a
> > > system whereby they can acquire land, which is a fundamental part
> > > of being a
> > > citizen, and this system should not be inequitable as it is in The
> > > Gambia."
> > >
> > > Elementary, and does not follow the same logic, why I ask? Kingdoms
> > > are/were organized
> > > around groups of people too who have something in common, or is that not
> > > so???
> > >
> > > "Therefore, it stands to logic then that everyone who calls
> > > themselves a
> > > citizen of that country should be entitled to acquire land there
> > > and the
> > > acquisition of such land should be uniform, either everyone buys
> > > land, or
> > > everyone can make claim to some land without buying it. Any other
> > > method is
> > > unfair and inequitable.
> > > There cannot be some of the people who say the land is their's just
> > > because
> > > they got there first, and their ancestors cut down the trees. It
> > > would be
> > > total chaos in the whole World if this were the case."
> > >
> > > Again I tell you again for the umpteenth time, that in fact we give/gave
> > > land out for free. There is no
> > > need to buy it if it is needed for dwelling or farming. Make your own
> > > enquiries. I have a question
> > > to ask though, do you think the way Africans had always lived their lives
> > > unfair? Traditional land
> > > ownership has always been the norm, all over the world actually I can say
> > > without hesitating.
> > >
> > > "These ancestors may have cleared the farmland when they first got
> > > there
> > > because it was what was necessary in order for them to be able to
> > > use the
> > > land. However, what we now have is a country where there is
> > > supposed to be a
> > > demoratic system in place, or at least that is what we say we are
> > > fignting
> > > for. This system is a system of laws that protect everyone's
> > > interest, and it
> > > is the advantage of enjoying this protection as a society, a group,
> > > that
> > > brings people together to form a country."
> > >
> > > We may now have a country for sure, but the way it is run has much to be
> > > desired for. It sure does
> > > not protect everyone's interest, if it does then I doubt very much if we
> > > will have this hullabaloo
> > > today. The young men the land had been divided up amongst would have been
> > > able and free
> > > to build their simple mud houses on them without the military threatening
> > > to kill them.
> > >
> > > "Once this happens, everything should then be decided on an
> > > equitable
> > > footing. One cannot say we are all gambians, but at the same time
> > > say to the
> > > rest of those who form this unit called a country, "sorry, but most
> > > of this
> > > land was already mine, so let's just say we have a country
> > > together, but not
> > > when it comes to land."
> > >
> > > Can you please tell me, if there has been any consultation when The Gambia
> > > was carved up/born?
> > > Were the different kingdoms consulted and their agreement or otherwise
> > > taken into account. I know
> > > this may sound like an idiotic question, but if you are so hanged up on
> > > this democracy nonsense,
> > > maybe you can tell me if the carving up of Gambia was in fact democratic.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Well Mr Manneh, what I can say to this is that, what we now have
> > > here, or are
> > > attempting to have is a democracy , and not a kingdom. A democracy
> > > where each
> > > of us expects fairness, peace and prosperity, and this calls for the
> > > revisiting of certain ways of doing things for the greater good of
> > > the
> > > society as a whole. Again, we cannot expect to benefit by a system
> > > and yet
> > > not contribute to it's sustainance at the same time. One cannot
> > > have it both
> > > ways."
> > >
> > > Mrs Joh I live in a kingdom, the UK, would you say that it is democratic or
> > > not? They do still
> > > have traditional land ownership here too you know!!
> > >
> > > As I said am not going to be apologetic on this issue, it is unfairness of
> > > the highest calibre,
> > > and any one who is fair-minded and honest can clearly see that. People's
> > > nonchalance on this
> > > issue too is left to them.
> > >
> > > Good weekend to you and the family
> > > Regards
> > > Manneh
> > >
> > > Jabou Joh wrote:
> > >
> > > > Manneh,
> > > >
> > > > I see that you are mixing two very different issues here, so perhaps I
> > > should
> > > > have made myself very clear when I commented on this issue. Please let me
> > > > make it emphatically clear that i am not discussing this land because I am
> > > > trying to defend Taf being given the land in Brufut. That is what started
> > > > this debate, but the Taf affair is a mess created by the Jammeh regime in
> > > > that they took land that was previously allocated to him for whatever
> > > > underhanded reason, and they are now trying to clean up that mess, or at
> > > > least make it appear so by giving him this land in Brufut. I am not
> > > defending
> > > > any of that at all. I actually do not condone handing over any land that
> > > > others have been living on or farming without consulting them.
> > > >
> > > > Likewise, I also do not condone the underhanded tactics of the Jammeh
> > > regime
> > > > as far as this whole Taf affair is concerned in relation to the first
> > > piece
> > > > of land that was taken away from him.
> > > > If Jammeh is engaged in some pre-election PR and trying to remedy this
> > > > situation by shooting from the hip as usual, that is their affair.
> > > >
> > > > However, this issue about who the land belongs to is the debate that was
> > > > sparked by that whole discussion, and land ownership in The Gambia as it
> > > is
> > > > now is what concerns me, and what I am trying to address.
> > > >
> > > > What i am commenting on here is the fact that some Gambians have land that
> > > > they claim belongs to their klan and is therefore their's, while othersl,
> > > > like myself for example, cannot make this claim. As someone whose klan
> > > does
> > > > not have self procalimed title to any large piece of land where a parcel
> > > can
> > > > be given to me without paying for it, if I need land, I have to have the
> > > > money to pay for it and I find that to be grossly unfair.
> > > >
> > > > You say that since my father is originally from Senegal, there must be
> > > land
> > > > there that our ancestors have claim to. Well, is that not the same point I
> > > > tried to make when I asked why you wanted to know where I am from.
> > > >
> > > > You say that it was just a question, and yet, you have used the answer to
> > > > tell me where I can go and claim land, Senegal, when I am Gambia born and
> > > > bred and very much a Gambian by this single fact alone. If this is the
> > > case,
> > > > why then should I have to go to another country that is not my country to
> > > lay
> > > > claim to land there? Clearly, this was the reason you asked the question
> > > > regarding family origin in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > You asked why there are countries if people did not own land. Well, this
> > > is
> > > > elementary and does not follow the same logic. Countries are organized
> > > around
> > > > groups of people who have something or want something in common, and then
> > > > within that parcel of land that constitutes the country, individuals have
> > > a
> > > > system whereby they can acquire land, which is a fundamental part of
> > > being a
> > > > citizen, and this system should not be inequitable as it is in The Gambia.
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, it stands to logic then that everyone who calls themselves a
> > > > citizen of that country should be entitled to acquire land there and the
> > > > acquisition of such land should be uniform, either everyone buys land, or
> > > > everyone can make claim to some land without buying it. Any other method
> > > is
> > > > unfair and inequitable.
> > > > There cannot be some of the people who say the land is their's just
> > > because
> > > > they got there first, and their ancestors cut down the trees. It would be
> > > > total chaos in the whole World if this were the case.
> > > >
> > > > These ancestors may have cleared the farmland when they first got there
> > > > because it was what was necessary in order for them to be able to use the
> > > > land. However, what we now have is a country where there is supposed to
> > > be a
> > > > demoratic system in place, or at least that is what we say we are fignting
> > > > for. This system is a system of laws that protect everyone's interest,
> > > and it
> > > > is the advantage of enjoying this protection as a society, a group, that
> > > > brings people together to form a country.
> > > >
> > > > Once this happens, everything should then be decided on an equitable
> > > > footing.One cannot say we are all gambians, but at the same time say to
> > > the
> > > > rest of those who form this unit called a country, "sorry, but most of
> > > this
> > > > land was already mine, so let's just say we have a country together, but
> > > not
> > > > when it comes to land."
> > > >
> > > > When countries are organized, laws are put into place for the protection
> > > of
> > > > the rights of every citizen. Therefore, we cannot operate on systems that
> > > > were the norm before the country was organized, or by systems that were
> > > put
> > > > into place or reinforced by our colonial masters whose only interest was
> > > to
> > > > pacify us while they extracted what they wanted from our lands.
> > > >
> > > > If one wants to follow an old system of land ownership, then perhaps it
> > > would
> > > > have been more suitable to have stayed in those communities that they
> > > cleared
> > > > and farmed, and not look to have both the advantage of belonging to an
> > > > organized country and still enjoy the priviledges of not adopting a
> > > system of
> > > > land ownership that is fair to the country as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > What we are talking about here is simple logic. it is utterly ridiculous
> > > to
> > > > say that one owns large tracts of land in a country simply by virtue of
> > > the
> > > > fact that ones ancestors cleared and farmed it long before the country was
> > > > organized. We are talking about a fair and equitable and uniform system of
> > > > land allocation that is suitable for a democratic country, and one in
> > > which
> > > > every citizen wants to be treated with fairness and equality in every
> > > aspect
> > > > of life. One cannot aspire for and expect fairness if some aspects of the
> > > > system are clearly unfair. Whether one wants to face this issue and
> > > discuss
> > > > and resolve it or not, it is not one that will just go away because
> > > someone
> > > > says that their ancestors cleared the land.
> > > >
> > > > Pennsylvania was land given to Willaim Penn by the king of England in
> > > > pre-independence days. Likewise, families in the Southern part of the
> > > United
> > > > States held huge parcels of land during the time of slavery and up to the
> > > > civil war. There were also other families who held very large pieces of
> > > land
> > > > here in the U.S. In general, all people in the World cleared new and
> > > virgin
> > > > lands they went to settlle.These people do not control all this land now.
> > > > The Native Americans do not have the sole right to the land here, and
> > > > arrogantly appoint themselves the "giver" of land to other groups or
> > > > individuals even though they were here before, and i am sure their
> > > ancestors
> > > > cleared a forest or two. If land ownership should be based on who cleared
> > > > which piece of land, then there is still a good bit of land in Gambia
> > > that is
> > > > thick forest, and yielding a machete does not make it one's private
> > > property.
> > > >
> > > > Is it logical that one should divide a country up among klans, especially
> > > > when there are other groups in the same country who do not have the same
> > > > priviledge?
> > > > I do not think so.
> > > >
> > > > You wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "There were tiny kingdoms, like the Kombo, Niumi, Badibu kingdoms etc, and
> > > > within these kingdoms we had clans. So if you are taking to task the
> > > > traditional way of land ownership, then maybe you shouldtravel back in
> > > time
> > > > and change the way Africans had always lived their lives."
> > > >
> > > > Well Mr Manneh, what I can say to this is that, what we now have here, or
> > > are
> > > > attempting to have is a democracy , and not a kingdom. A democracy where
> > > each
> > > > of us expects fairness, peace and prosperity, and this calls for the
> > > > revisiting of certain ways of doing things for the greater good of the
> > > > society as a whole. Again, we cannot expect to benefit by a system and yet
> > > > not contribute to it's sustainance at the same time. One cannot have it
> > > both
> > > > ways.
> > > >
> > > > Have a good weekend.
> > > >
> > > > Auntie Jabou Joh
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 7/6/2001 2:53:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > Mrs Joh,
> > > > Why do you resent the question I asked of where you were born? There
> > > is
> > > > nothing sinister in it,
> > > > just a simple straight forward question. I asked it merely because I had
> > > a
> > > > chance to speak
> > > > to my dad, and he reassured me that, anyone from a farming community
> > > > understands what land
> > > > ownership is all about? If I had wanted to ask you otherwise, rest
> > > assured I
> > > > shall ask you it in simple
> > > > and straightforward manner.
> > > > I learnt that you were born in Janjangburreh, but is it not also true
> > > that
> > > > in fact your dad actually
> > > > originated
> > > > from Senegal. If you were to make enquiries am sure you will realize that
> > > > his clan/family too owned l
> > > > and. ( I am a cousin to your nieces and nephews, so you see we are all
> > > one
> > > > big family here).
> > > >
> > > > If your argument that land should belong to everyone is to be taken
> > > > seriously by me, then I ask
> > > > this: why do do we have countries? Why cannot we move freely from one
> > > place
> > > > to the other?
> > > > That is a principle which would be great but we live in the real world,
> > > and
> > > > as such people have
> > > > claims to things, yes, even land. I am not at all ashamed of fighting
> > > for my
> > > > cousins' rights to house
> > > > their families, I will not apologize for it either.
> > > >
> > > > "However, i also want to say that in our fight for justice, let us
> > > not be
> > > > selective. If we seek justice, we must be prepared to seek it in
> > > every
> > > > aspect pf Gambian life. It has become too easy for folks to just
> > > try to
> > > > use
> > > > the word tribalism as a scare tactic to shut others up because they
> > > think
> > > > that everyone will consider it politically incorrect and run and
> > > hide."
> > > >
> > > > The justice to be fought here is quite simple really. Land has been
> > > divided
> > > > up among young men
> > > > so as build houses for their young families. Due to Brufut's proximity to
> > > > the Tourist Development
> > > > Area, some selfish businessman thinks that actually he needs the land
> > > more
> > > > than they do, even
> > > > though he and his family are comfortably housed somewhere else. He needs
> > > the
> > > > land to build houses
> > > > to sell at a Dmill or more. So now you tell me, where is this justice you
> > > > are talking about?
> > > > Lets for instance forget about this Traditional land ownership, do you
> > > think
> > > > it fair and even humane for
> > > > one man's eagerness to make himself even richer override the need of some
> > > > poor villagers to house themselves
> > > > and their families? If there is a need for concerted effort for justice
> > > then
> > > > nothing deserves
> > > > it more than this. Today, the 6th July 2001, could become a very sad day
> > > for
> > > > us, as today is the day that
> > > > the military will go ahead and demolish the simple mud houses some of
> > > them
> > > > have scraped for to build.
> > > > Why, because their rights to housing is not as important as Taf's
> > > eagerness
> > > > to make more millions.
> > > > So please remember in them your prayers today, for I know they are not
> > > going
> > > > to stand helplessly and
> > > > see their houses razed to the ground. Where is the justice, you tell me
> > > > people of the L!!
> > > >
> > > > I think the tribalistic tendencies should be much more appropriately
> > > taken
> > > > up with Mr Nyang.
> > > > I cannot speak for any other family with regards to Traditional Land
> > > > Ownership, but I can speak for
> > > > mine. We came to own our land because our forebears broke their backs to
> > > cut
> > > > down the forests
> > > > and turned it into farmlands centuries ago. If some other clan was busy
> > > > doing something else and as
> > > > such their families down the line do not have land to farm or live on,
> > > then
> > > > I suggest they go back in
> > > > time and sort it out with their forebears.
> > > >
> > > > "We have to be careful about being very
> > > > eager to address only those wrongs that are not to our advantage
> > > and
> > > > try to
> > > > ignore, cover up or pass over those that directly involve our
> > > > personal or
> > > > family, or group interests. One cannot afford to seem to give the
> > > > imptession
> > > > of being cunning at the expense of other people."
> > > >
> > > > I am not trying to address this issue because it affects my family, I was
> > > > sick to my guts because
> > > > the greed of a single man and his readiness to rob people of that most
> > > > fundamental of human
> > > > rights, a place to live in. No one is trying to be cunning here, not
> > > from my
> > > > side I can assure you.
> > > > You live in the USA, have you ever asked the Indians why they always
> > > argue
> > > > that they own the land?
> > > > Am sure there are a lot of people who are Americans by birth too, does it
> > > > mean that they can build
> > > > and farm anywhere they like. It so is not the case here in the UK. There
> > > > still are traditional land
> > > > owners here (or as they call them land lords. They lease out their land
> > > to
> > > > farmers)
> > > >
> > > > " Am I to believe that my Gambian brothers and sisters whose klans,
> > > groups,
> > > > etc
> > > > can lay claim to land and other groups are not entitled to the same
> > > > priviledge actually consider that just? If we are all Gambians, then I
> > > think
> > > > we need to revisit this land issue and make sure we put a fair system in
> > > > place where every Gambian can acquire land in a uniform manner. I cannot
> > > see
> > > > myself as comrades to people who say they abhor injustice and are
> > > fighting
> > > > for justice with me, but who at the same time conveniently chuck this
> > > land
> > > > issueto tribalism when it is very clear that definitley not all Gambians
> > > have
> > > > equal rights when it comes to this issue."
> > > >
> > > > Mrs Joh, we are very fair in the way we allocate land to people. We gave
> > > a
> > > > whole village
> > > > to Ghanaians(Ghan Town), there are countless Senegalese, Guineans (mostly
> > > > Fulas, a village
> > > > call Pa Tubey ya), Manjagoes (Yuna village), Malians and even Europeans
> > > who
> > > > my family has
> > > > given land to, and all it cost them them was the price of a kilo or so of
> > > > kola nuts. There is a village
> > > > call Madiana, on the outskirts of Brufut, my family gave it to Jolas for
> > > > free.
> > > > So if one man wants to take countless hectares of our land in his
> > > eagerness
> > > > to enrich himself even more,
> > > > I think that is what what should make any fair minded person's blood boil
> > > >
> > > > "I am no tribalist, but I think that this land affair is
> > > something
> > > > that
> > > > definitely needs to be looked at. It just does not make sense to
> > > me
> > > > that some
> > > > Gambians can have claim to certain lands when this is not evenly
> > > > applied as
> > > > far as every group in Gambia is concerned.
> > > > Am I to believe that my Gambian brothers and sisters whose klans,
> > > > groups, etc
> > > > can lay claim to land and other groups are not entield to the
> > > same
> > > > priviledge actually consider that just? If we are all Gambians,
> > > then
> > > > I think
> > > > we need to revisit this land issue and make sure we put a fair
> > > > system in
> > > > place where every Gambian can acquire land in a uniform manner. I
> > > > cannot see
> > > > myself as comrades to people who say they abhor injustice and are
> > > > fighting
> > > > for justice with me, but who at the same time conveniently chuck
> > > > this land
> > > > issueto tribalism when it is very clear that definitley not all
> > > > Gambians have
> > > > equal rights when it comes to this issue."
> > > >
> > > > Mrs Joh, I tell you something which am sure is deluding you here, there
> > > was
> > > > no such place as The
> > > > Gambia when we owned these lands. So how can it belong to all Gambians?
> > > Even
> > > > the white Europeans/colonialist
> > > > recognized traditional land ownership, for after all when they wanted to
> > > > settle in
> > > > the then Bathurst, they bought it form the King of Niumi( or Kombo).
> > > > There were tiny kingdoms, like the Kombo, Niumi, Badibu kingdoms etc, and
> > > > within these kingdoms
> > > > we had clans. So if you are taking to task the traditional way of land
> > > > ownership, then maybe you should
> > > > travel back in time and change the way Africans had always lived their
> > > > lives. Lord people could be born in
> > > > the UK, but they still do not have right to land. Land was and is still
> > > > owned by traditional owners here.
> > > > There is a plague at my former university saying how the land it stands
> > > on
> > > > was donated in 1862 by
> > > > Lord Henry Robinson Hartley whose family has since time immemorial owned
> > > > that part of Southampton.
> > > >
> > > > Have a good day
> > > > Manneh >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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