Folks,
 On the issue of Gambia-L rules, I'm just curious as to how many times
we have to remind each other that we are NOT miniature adults here and
that we expect a certain level of respect from one another, even when we
disagree. Hell, life has never been easy for our brothers and sisters, and
although I try very hard to not trivialize the issues raise by many of
you, I simply cannot condone to the notion that List Managers should be
acting as Bounty Hunters, Judge and Jury, as well as Parole and Probation
Officers, all at the same time. This to me is time consuming, counter-
productive  and at best a little far-fetching.And if that's the case they
might as well transform Gambia-L into a Support Group facility if you know
what I mean. Remeber one time they have this thing where you introduce
yourself when you first subscribe to the G_L , like this :
[ACTION!]...
  Hi everyone, my name is such and such and I am a recovering acoholic and
  I...................bada-bong..bada-bang..bada-bing (o-:)lol
[CUT!].
Think I'm joking? Maybe I am but you see what I'm getting at. I'm just
glad no taxpayer's 'dalasis' have been exhausted to the last 'butut' on
such a fruitless campaign to silence some list members in the opposition.
What a trend this has become lately. One strike and you outta here. Yuk!
Ladies and gentlemen, censorship is a billion dollar business and I'm sure
this NO news to many of you. Please let us not waste time and resources on
this.

I also understand it that Mr Ansumana Kujabi has been on probation since
February and no one ever heard from Prof Assan anymore. The Essa Thomases
are about to follow suit,all gone for good, and by the time we realize that
the rules in place are horrendously deficient in judgment and lack merit
nor moral ground, many what could have been fine contributors will be
forced to hit the superhighway of what is infact modern technology if in
fact such rules arre not deregulated in the interest of all and sundry.
All these euphoric brouhaha for breaking vagrant rules in a cyber forum?
Even world renown hackers don't spend that much time in the penitentiary .
Just as I abhor adding fuel to a burning fire and hate to uncompromise the
competence of our poor List Managers who have to put up with us (Gambians),
I simply just don't idly believe that having these Supreme Court decision
making tactics in cyber forum is the solution to the problem. For some us
maybe, but certainly not for all us. The 'Delete' button on our keyboard
has a very specific purpose. No need for me to explain what for.The fact
remains that you goona have the Kebba Jobes who proudly chose to hide their
identity, say whatever they feel like and have no same or repercussions. He
keeps telling us his identity is not the issue but those who write here
with their real names are forced to be accountable with what they write
here. So it does no justice treat the likes of Kebba Jobe lightly while
putting the Ansumana Kujabis, who I may add uses his real name, under such
intense microscopic scrutiny. Because The Ansumana Kujabis use their real
name they either defend themselves by putting their points across and
apologize whe they see any wrong-doing. But for the Kebba Jobes, what do
they have to loose. They don't take the risk many of us who use our real names put ourselves when we provide damaging information to say the APRC
for instance. For all I know they can curse at anyone they choose, get
delisted and come back with 5 or 10 alias and still do whatever their heart
desires. To that note, purnishment to those who use their real name seems
more severe. I can go and on with other incidences but as you see folks,
it is almost impossible to control a forum of consenting adults of this
magnitude. That is why we should be open minded and try to have a certain
level of respect for one another. if our conscience doesn't help us, our
emotions will not either.

In a forum where the overwhelming majority are speaking out daily to free
Dumo et al, I find it rather ironic that, that same forum is in contempt
with trying to incarcerate some it's most ardent and loyal members,putting
them incommunicado and giving them persona non-grata status. What we have
to understand that a lot of us in the struggle for the restoration of
democrasy, peace and justice are indeen very oppressed, subjected to all
forms of injustice and so in light of this fact we should expect emotions
to run high and have few ugly altercations here and there. Overall what is
paramount to note at the end of the day is that the essence/rudiments of
participatory dialogue among fellow Gambians must be allowed to exist
over the ilks preconceived misconceptions. Views will differs and it is the
responsibilities of list members to matters into their own hands and
apologize when one is needed as opposed to list managers trying to micro-
manage what they have no control over. They should more worried about
keeping the mail servers up and running and making sure our mails get
through to all recipients. Why try to baby-sit grown adults? Gambia-L is
simply a medium that publishes the postings to offer readers a new glimpse
into the working of engaged political discource in the struggle for human
rights and democracy, and of coursce including many other interests. What
good then would it be if we turn this wonderful medium into some hereditary
nobility where it's either one way or the highway?

Whatever happened to rehabitation as opposed to purnishment. Make people
aware of the repercussions of their actions and try to make the best of
heated situations. A bad action is best left undone. One is punished later
for a bad action. But a good deed is best done, for which one will not be
punished for doing it. Though some perspectives on crime and punishment
support the contemporary movement toward restorative justice in place of
retributive, the history of punishment is in some respects like the
history of war; it seems to accompany the human condition almost
universally, to enjoy periods of glorification, to be commonly regarded as
justified in many instances, and yet to run counter to our ultimate vision
of what human society should be.

The question that comes to mind is :Why do we punish? Say the likes of
innocent people like Dumo et al as well as The Ansumana Kujabas et al? It
may seem an odd question, but only until we try to answer it. To punish is
to harm, and harming must be justified.Three types of justification are
usually offered: the harm of punishment is outweighed by some greater good
(for example, it deters others); punishment does not really harm offenders
(because it reforms them); and harming offenders is good in itself
(because retribution “annuls the crime“). However, each of these reasons
becomes problematical when examined.

The first argument is a utilitarian one, and the usual objections against
utilitarianism are all the more pointed when the issue is justice. It
seems immoral to harm someone because we want to influence others’
behavior; such a principle could also be used to justify scapegoating
innocents. This is not just an abstract refutation, for there is the
uncomfortable possibility that offenders today have become our scapegoats
for larger social problems. And from a practical point of view this
justification does not seem to be working. If punishment warns other would-
be offenders, why does the United States , which incarcerates a larger
percentage of its population than any other industrialized country,
continue to have the one of the very highest crime rates?

The second argument, that punishment does not really harm the offender,
has some force, but is not usually true today. The Quakers may have
intended the penitentiary to be a place of penitence, but that meaning has
long been lost, and there is little doubt that incarceration makes most
offenders worse. As often happens, an institution that does not fulfill
its ORIGINAL PURPOSE (List Managers please note the emphasis)continues to
exist for other reasons—in this case because, to tell the truth, we do not
know what else to do with most offenders except remove them to places
where they will be unable to re-offend.

The third argument, that harming offenders is good in itself, is more
complicated because it incorporates several types of justifications.
Historically the most common, and (although we do not like to admit it)
perhaps still prevalent, is the desire for vengeance. In many cases this
is understandable, but it is nevertheless morally unacceptable and socially
destructive, undoubtedly counter to our ultimate vision of what human
society should be. These reasons ladies and gentlemen for me to believe
that we need to re-evaluate our approach to punishing fellow comrades, even
our most hated enemies.

I hate to be philosophical about all this, ladies and  gentlemen but what
is paramount, I think, is that we try to be more open-minded and open the
lines of communication, making room for tolerance and sound judgement in
the process, as opposed to rushing to judgement. In short, treat eachother
as adults and NOT miniature adults. Let those who break these rules of
ethics offer their apologies rather than trying to castigate them into
oblivion, or solitary confinement. No one is perfect. Show me one who is
perfect and I'll show you what a pathological liar he or she is .The G_L
approach to punishment, like any other approach to punishment, cannot
really be separated from its understanding of human psychology (especially
motivation and intention); of the relationship between the individual and
society; and, last but not least, of its vision of human possibility, of
what a good life is or can be for some of these list members, if given the
(second, maybe third)chances they deserve. That is it . I done.

                                                 Au Revoir,
                                                 George Sarr (Real Name)
                                                 Mr Makaveli ( Alias)




From: Ansumana Kujabi <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: On The Gambia-L Rules
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Jun 21, 2001


SAUL:

Thanks 1000 times for your input. As always you have approached this
situation maturely. Frankly, the gang of two have STRETCHED THE ENVELOPE of
the GAM-L RULES. It all boiled down to EMOTIONS. Why monitor Kujabi, whiles
we have the KEBBA JOKES and ESSAS putting us through hell. I was kinda
surprised to see the people keep monitoring me intensely since FEBRUARY
2001; absolutely pathetic. This will NEVER EVER distract me from hitting my
points home. This is MY CITIZEN DUTY to give it all I have in the struggle
in fighting for the RESTORATION of DEMOCRACY and the RULE of LAW back home.
Our beautiful country, which had been FIRM FRIENDS with the International
Community is NOW ISOLATED  as a result of the REBEL GOVERNMENT we have at
home. But the MORON'S DAYS are numbered. Therefore, as HISTORY always
teaches us great lessons, one should be REALLY VERY CAREFUL and PRUDENT in
the way you go about your life, otherwise, when that returns, a day when we
will all gather to account for our actions, we will have some in our midst
who will look the other way; or they might even regret their actions that
day. To that end, I think there should be a LEVELED PLAYING FIELD for every
contributor in this forum, period. God Bless.

Ansumana




Gambians Online " Designed With The Gambian People In Mind"
               http://www.gambiansonline.com

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