Former Rhodesian PM Ian Smith in an interview with the Guardian, 04 April, 2000. ********************************************* I told you so As prime minister of Rhodesia, he led his country into war and international isolation. But he prefers not to dwell on the past. As political violence returns to Zimbabwe, Ian Smith tells Matthew Engel where Robert Mugabe went wrong Zimbabwe: special report Tuesday April 4, 2000 In Zimbabwe the past is another country. But the embodiment of that country is still with us. And he has had a pretty good weekend. After all, he told us it would happen, incessantly. Ian Smith, prime minister of Rhodesia from 1964 to 1979, took his country through treason and sanctions and war rather than submit to black rule. In rough outline, he predicted Saturday's attack on the anti-government marchers 40 years ago. He was doing his best not to gloat. "We're pretty well in a state of anarchy, so I don't think it should surprise anyone who understands politics. It was a dreadful incident. People beaten with sticks and whips, including ladies . Par for the course, though. This is where we live. Dreadful." It doesn't feel all that dreadful, though. He sits in a comfy armchair in his front room amid the over-fussy decoration beloved by colonialists of his generation. He is 80 now and a widower, a bit lonely I think (why else would he welcome the Guardian so readily?), but he is still fit, and has not lost a solitary marble. He looks out on to a glorious lawn, fronting an avenue shaded by old jacaranda trees. He has less security than the average middle-ranked executive in Johannesburg. Only one thing jars: poking up behind his bougainvillea is a huge radio mast. Ian Smith's next-door neighbour is the Cuban embassy. He is not a humorous man, but this is probably the best joke in Harare. "They're very nice," says Smith. "I said in an interview that I preferred the Cubans to Mugabe, and the ambassador has waved cheerfully ever since." There is a logical flaw here, since Smith's first allegation (of many) against Zimbabwe's current president, Robert Mugabe, is that he is a communist. This provided the only moment during our conversation when I was convinced I had him nailed. "He is a communist," Smith was saying. "Still is. Absolutely dedicated. He stays in power so he can do what he wants to do." "Some people might say that's what you did." "THAT'S A LIE." It was an unusually unsubtle get-out. Time and again I asked him during the interview, in different ways, if (1) he had made mistakes; (2) he blamed himself at all for his country's plight; and (3) he regretted what he had done. The answers were: yes (though he declined to specify any mistakes); no; and "I don't dwell on the past." Funnily enough, the last bit was probably the biggest lie of all. The whole Rhodesian adventure was a piece of quixotry straight out of the past. A year after he took over, Smith made a unilateral declaration of independence (UDI) to prevent Britain forcing him to accept majority rule. There were fewer than a quarter of a million whites, and 5m blacks. Harold Wilson considered invasion, then backed away, uncertain even of the British army's loyalty. White Rhodesia flourished, evading economic sanctions for more than a decade with a mix of 10% skill and ingenuity and 90% South African support. Britain looked pathetic. Then, as guerrilla warfare intensified, the South African president, the old soak and bully John Vorster, decided that this sideshow was jeopardising his own regime's survival, and forced Rhodesia to capitulate. By Smith's armchair is his own book, The Great Betrayal, which refers to the South Africans' behaviour. He also has Reach for the Sky, the biography of the war hero Douglas Bader; The Abolition of Britain, a sort of past-dweller's handbook by the eccentric Daily Express writer Peter Hitchens; and a compilation of cartoons by Giles, another Express favourite. I didn't dare tell him the paper is now edited by a dope-smoking Labour supporter, and a woman - no, lady - at that. He also has a huge painting of Spitfires over the Italian mountains, which is what he flew and where he flew them. He doesn't need much prompting to mention the war: that war, not the one he precipitated. Otherwise, his conversation is mostly about long-ago negotiations with politicians, mostly dead, all of whom were evidently far trickier than he was. UDI was not illegal, he insisted, the lawyers said so: it was a response to a breach of contract by the British. "We had majority rule," said Smith. "We had responsible majority rule. It was a system British ministers said to me time and again was a success. Harold Macmillan said so; Alec Home said so. On the day of UDI, Harold Wilson pleaded with me, 'Ian, please have a little more patience. You are our model for Africa.' Then he rushed to the House of Commons and said I was a traitor." Smith despises inconsistency in others but will never recognise it in himself. It is a very Rhodesian sort of trait. But his greatest venom is reserved for Mugabe. "When you see what these communist gangsters have done to this country." He shakes his head. "They inherited a wonderful country. He told me so. The day the 1980 election results came out he rang and asked me to see him. "Mugabe sat me down and said, 'I just want to tell you how lucky we are inheriting this jewel of Africa. We want to keep it that way.' He couldn't have been kinder or more polite. I couldn't believe what I heard. He talked like a sophisticated westerner, not like a communist. I said, 'You said it to me. Will you say it in public? And he did. "I used to go and see him regularly for the first 18 months, and he couldn't have been more gracious. Then suddenly he had a rush of blood and decided to create a one-party Marxist state. I was never welcome after that and I've never seen him since. Now we have a dictatorship. It's totalitarianism. You're not allowed to disagree, you're allowed to agree." It is a little hard to see how you can simultaneously have both totalitarianism and anarchy. And anyway, here we are in his sitting room, and he is disagreeing like crazy. "Mugabe never had such freedom in your day, did he?" "He had complete freedom. He was only arrested because he practised subversion, unconstitutional methods." Mugabe spent years in jail; Smith is incensed because he has been briefly arrested three times. "It doesn't feel like a communist country, does it?" "In the last couple of years, yes, people have spoken out. They're very clever, these totalitarian people. They took over the communications media, they instituted the CIO [Central Intelligence Organisation], which is as good as any Gestapo on the face of the earth. "You know, my friend, Africa is different. It's nothing like the free world. They believe in chiefs, in dictatorship." And so you go round in circles. Never mind that Smith's constitution denied the majority anything but the most rudimentary say. Come to think of it, peaceful demonstrations against the government were not a major feature of life under the Smith government. I tried to find something on which he might agree with Mugabe: and it's true, he doesn't care for homosexuality either. "I was brought up to believe it wasn't part of life. Sodomy was a crime. We were given this [he glances discreetly downwards] to procreate. I'm now told that there are inherent reasons for people being that way, that there's medical evidence. Well, all right, but you should keep it to yourself and not influence young people. I don't like it." He is worried about the internet too: "I'm a bit worried from what I hear of it. I hear it's a bit unsavoury, a lot of smut." And he is concerned about the British young: "I don't think they have enough pride in Britain." Here we have the very nub of Rhodesia. It was a country that embodied the values of the old Daily Express, where acceptable subversion might be safely contained in a Giles cartoon. Smith's Rhodesia ("Surrey with the lunatic fringe on top," as it was once characterised) had many old-fashioned Home Counties virtues: neighbourliness, civic pride, politeness, efficiency, practicality, discipline, reticence, pluck and a little light charity. For better or worse, women were always ladies (usually making the teas, not going on demos). It is as though the world was defied for a decade by some gigantic local bowls club. Smith himself was an unpretentious and accessible leader, driving home for lunch in a little Peugeot. Good old Smithy! Nowadays, Avis give renters special instructions about how to behave when confronted by a presidential motorcade. But the Rhodesians could not face up to the contradictions of their privilege and their position. There was no Great Betrayal. They were betrayed only by their own narrow-mindedness, selfishness and ignorance. "We were not racialists," Smith insists. And it is true that Rhodesia had no Whites Only signs, like South Africa. The phrase was "Right of Admission Reserved". Most people did not have to be told what that meant. Even now, Smith purports to believe that Mugabe has never won a fair election, and that he cheated more moderate leaders out of what was theirs - an assertion which everyone who understands anything of Zimbabwean politics thinks is nonsense. Ian Smith understood everything about Rhodesia. But that was another country. Indeed, it wasn't even a country at all. 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