KB and Basil Jones,

Thanks for making it easy for me to see through the trash the PR machine of the APRC is trying to ooze via the parrot 'Kebba Jobe'.   He seems to take himself very serious, I do not wish to sully the debate but you guys especially KB are unmasking every filth these people are throwing here.

KB thanks too in tackling Musa Jeng's croaking.  It was really hard to follow his logic.

Dr Jones, you made it very easy for laymen like myself to understand the economic situation in the Gambia.  'Jobe's garbage stinks.  I am even beginning to doubt his credentials.  He does not seem to have any scruples in his blatant plagiarism of peoples ideas.  His inappropriate quotations of heavy weights like the Harvard economist J. Galbraith baffles me.  I wonder where the APRC think-tank got the idea of 2020 from.  Every sane person knows this was Jawara's idea which was heavily criticized then.

I'm sorry to butt in guys, i just cannot stomach this trash from the APRC propaganda machine.

Regards,

Mboge

>From: Dampha Kebba <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Answers to part1 questions
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:01:57 -0400
>
>Jeng, I wonder when you will come out of your closet and admit that
>you are
>a Yaya supporter. No one will kill you. Unlike Yaya, we in the
>Opposition do
>not hold a gun to people's head forcing them to believe in garbage.
>Why
>don't you quit being a hypocrite and show your true colors and
>address
>people directly?
>
>I will address your gibberish in chronological order, so excuse me
>if I
>sound a little disjointed. You were all over the place. First of
>all, I do
>not know where you took a poll and determined that "there are many
>on this
>so-called anti-Jammeh forum who seem to be nodding their heads in
>agreement
>to some of your [Kebba Jobe's] points". Emphasis mine. How many G_L
>subscribers did you see nodding their heads? Granted this might be a
>figure
>of speech. The best way to determine whether 'many' in this forum
>are in
>agreement with Jobe, is to check the archives to see how many people
>wrote
>to support Jobe's position. By my counting, you are the only one so
>far that
>seem to think that Yaya's 'projects' is a suitable substitute for
>the lives
>of our children. That is Jobe's premise; otherwise why would he want
>to
>perpetuate a child murderer and a thieve? So, please give us the
>figures
>about Jobe's and your support on this forum.
>
>I do not pretend to speak for Saul Khan, but I will say this.
>According to
>my reading, Saul did not say that Jobe was credible per se. What
>Saul said
>was that Jobe, unlike Essa Sey, was at least putting his case across
>in
>coherent language. That is very far from saying that Jobe is
>credible or his
>arguments are honest and sensible. According to my dictionary,
>'credible'
>means: capable of being believed; deserving confidence. Is this what
>you
>think Saul was saying? Again, I don't speak for Saul, but I believe
>Saul is
>not naïve to believe Jobe when Jobe says that he supports Yaya
>because of
>these 'projects'. We all know that Jobe's loyalty is motivated by
>greed,
>cowardice and ignorance. His loyalty has nothing to do with these
>'projects'. Would Jobe substitute these 'projects' for his children?
>That is
>exactly what Jobe was saying when he said that he supports Yaya
>despite the
>atrocities committed against our people.
>
>You also said that "the lamest arguments put forward is to call
>these
>projects stolen Jawara projects, or even to disingenuously down play
>the
>significance of these projects". Why did you not have the guts to
>address me
>directly when I said that these were stolen projects from the Jawara
>regime?
>If the argument is lame, why didn't you or Jobe debunk the argument
>by
>showing that these were not stolen projects? Are you trying to say
>that the
>AFPRC/APRC invented these projects? Explain why you think the
>argument is
>lame. This argument goes to the heart of APRC's dishonest claim for
>the
>credit of recent developments in Gambia. You people want to pretend
>that you
>are Gambia's saviors. Yaya is a genius that thought about all these
>projects
>and got money from God to finance the projects. You think it is
>'lame' to
>debunk that myth? Well, tell us why it is 'lame'. Tell us what
>Yaya's input
>is in these 'projects'. Remember that Yaya and all the civil
>servants
>working for him were educated by the PPP. Gambia did not start in
>the past
>seven years.
>
>Can you also enlighten us again about the reason AFPRC stole power
>from a
>democratically elected government. I hope you are right that that is
>the
>best argument APRC has. Because if that is the case, the Opposition
>is
>guaranteed a sure victory in October. In case you did not notice,
>Yaya is
>not running against PPP. You guys can dwell all you want in the
>past. That
>will not change the facts as they unfold during Yaya's tenure. You
>spoke
>about lame arguments. Is it logical to you that APRC open a debate
>on
>corruption of the Jawara regime? That was one of the claimed reasons
>for the
>coup. Yaya is lot more corrupt than Jawara. In less than seven
>years, he
>stole more from our people than the whole Jawara regime stole in
>thirty
>years. Let us talk about corruption.
>
>Does it also make sense to you if your side bring up the issue of
>nepotism;
>another claimed reason for the coup? Tell us what Ousman Badjie,
>Famara
>Jatta, Sankung Badjie, Babucarr Jatta, John Bojang, Susan Waffa have
>in
>common.
>
>Does it also make sense for the APRC supporters to talk about
>development of
>our people when their own statistics show that Gambians have grown
>poorer
>under Yaya's watch? I think you are confused.
>
>It is insulting to certain Opposition members for characters like
>you to
>pretend that you are part of the Opposition. Keep convincing
>yourself. We
>know better. In light of Yaya's record, Jawara's record is very
>defensible.
>I am even surprised that we do not have real PPP people coming out
>here to
>challenge the low-lives that stole power from them and always
>distort their
>record. Because I am and was not a PPP supporter, I would have
>preferred for
>the PPP to come out and fight their own battle. But if we do not
>have that,
>I will not stand by and watch vermin like you lie about the PPP
>record in
>order to perpetuate Yaya. What did people defend about the PPP
>record that
>is indefensible? Why do you keep throwing out rhetoric you cannot
>back up?
>Why don't you debunk specifics I have defended on the PPP record?
>
>I will take this opportunity to respectfully appeal to the PPP
>people to
>come out and take on the Musa Jengs and the Kebba Jobes of this
>world.
>Rather than attacking me both on G_L and outside G_L for describing
>PPP
>militants as meek for not fighting Decree 89 in a certain way;
>rather than
>PPP people attacking Ebou Colly behind the scenes for saying some
>self-evident truths about the Jawara regime, PPP people should come
>out and
>defend their record and their integrity. Me and Colly are not the
>enemy of
>PPP. The enemies are the low-lives that stole power from PPP and the
>vermin
>that peddle lies about the PPP record in order to perpetuate Yaya.
>
>As I said, the PPP record is defensible. Certainly lot more
>defensible than
>the AFPRC/APRC record. Musa Jeng will just be exhibiting his
>hypocrisy if he
>abuses a government that schooled him and gave him a job that was
>taken away
>from him by Yaya and his cohorts. The man will just be exhibiting
>his
>foolishness if he supports a government that forced him to become an
>economic refugee after he had decided to go home for good and was
>provided
>with a conducive environment by the PPP; an environment where he had
>a job
>and was free to earn a decent living and build up a family. If he
>wants to
>show ingratitude to PPP and worship APRC that tormented him, PPP
>should not
>allow Jeng to do so at their expense. PPP should defend itself from
>the
>Jengs of this world.
>
>PPP should not be afraid that Yaya and his cohorts will accuse them
>of
>corruption or nepotism. As pointed out earlier, these vices are more
>rife in
>our society nowadays. How can Yaya accuse OJ of corruption? OJ can
>just
>point out that he lived at his father's home with his whole family
>for
>several years he was a minister. Yaya on the other hand built a
>multi-million dalasi mansion in Kanilai less than five years after
>stealing
>power. Where did Yaya get the money from? Where did Famara Jatta get
>the
>money he is using to build a mansion back home? Is this not the same
>type of
>crap that was used against the PPP people? 'Where could you afford
>to build
>a house after working for thirty years'? Was this not the sick
>rationale of
>those Asset Evaluation kangaroo courts? These vermin are achieving
>these
>feats (building a mansion) in six years. They are building more
>flamboyant
>houses, not to mention other corrupt activities like the abuse of
>government
>travel allowances. These low-lives have nothing against PPP.
>
>How can the Gambian economy in its current state be Yaya's best
>argument for
>re-election? What has Jeng been smoking? Did he not read Famara
>Jatta's
>budget? Is this man ignorant about the plight of our farmers
>(overwhelming
>majority of Gambians)? Does Jeng not know about the rampant
>corruption in
>our country? How many of Jeng;s family and friends are employed by
>the
>government? Does Jeng know what a bag of rice cost in The Gambia of
>2001?
>Has Jeng been following the deterioration of the dalasi? What is
>wrong with
>this man? He is unsympathetic to the regime that brought him up and
>gave him
>all he got. He turns around and support a regime that kills innocent
>and
>defenseless children and make our people poorer and sends him to
>exile.
>
>When he talks about corruption in the Jawara regime, he is sure
>about what
>he is saying, but when he talks about corruption in the Yaya regime,
>he
>starts speaking in vague terms as 'allegations'. To Jeng, the proof
>about
>Yaya's involvement in the 'Crude Oil Sacndal' does not mean a thing.
>But
>when it comes to Yaya's lies about Jawara's crude oil deal, what
>Yaya is
>saying is the gospel truth and is enough proof for Jeng. Forget the
>court
>documents in Yaya's case. Just rely on Yaya's word in Jawara's case.
>Does
>this make sense? Did Jeng ask himself why Yaya stopped talking about
>Jawara's crude oil case? I will tell Jeng. Yaya stopped because his
>investigators were stopped on their tracks. They went to Central
>Bank to
>investigate and saw transparent and authentic documents showing
>where all
>the proceeds to the deal went. Contrast that with the low-life Jeng
>supports
>now. The vermin will not even permit an investigation despite that
>we have
>court records showing that Yaya was deeply involved in some dubious
>dealings. Do these vermin have anything to say to PPP?
>
>Jeng is upset about PPP corruption so much so that he believes that
>PPP is
>indefensible and do not deserve to rule. Yet the same Jeng wants
>child
>murderers to rule us. What is wrong with the Musa Jengs and the
>Kebba Jobes
>of this world. Is cowardice and misguided principles enough
>justification
>for the callousness of these people? No amount of pretense will make
>us
>regard you as decent human beings who are part of the Opposition
>against
>Yaya. You are better off sticking to your boy (Yaya). At least if
>you show
>your true colors no one will say that you are a hypocrite.
>KB
>
>
>
>>From: Musa Jeng <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Answers to part1 questions
>>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:33:12 -0400
>>
>>Mr.Jobe:
>>
>>Surprising as it may sound, I believe there are many on this
>>so-called
>>anti-Jammeh forum who seem to be
>>nodding their heads in agreement to some of your points. Like Saul
>>Khan, I
>>honestly believe that you are one
>>of the few AFPRC supporters who have really put across a credible
>>case. In
>>fact, the more I read some of the
>>rebuttal, specifically to the AFPRC’ s projects the more it gives
>>credence
>>to your argument. The lamest
>>arguments put forward is to call these projects stolen Jawara
>>projects, or
>>even to disingenuously down play
>>the significance of these projects. I am convince that the
>>motivation that
>>led to these projects was more
>>political than love of country, but nonetheless the AFPRC deserve
>>credit
>>for pursuing these projects. It is
>>also very fascinating that the best argument the AFPRC has is the
>>reason
>>for the removal of the Jawara
>>Administration, and anytime a direct comparison is made, I found
>>myself
>>agreeing with you. To the opposition,
>>myself included, we become very vulnerable and even troubling to be
>>defending an indefensible Jawara
>>Administration, or even to suggest that whatever transpired is
>>tolerable
>>and should be forgotten, in order to
>>help us focus against Jammeh.
>>
>> Mr. Jobe, touting the AFPRC projects has become your best
>>argument, and
>>comparing Jammeh’s economic program
>>in comparison to Jawara still gives you a strong case to make.
>>Corruption
>>was one of the strongest
>>single-issue used as the justification to bring an end to the
>>Jawara
>>Administration. How would you react to
>>allegations that Jammeh has become one of the richest leaders in
>>the
>>African sphere? He is involved in lots
>>of investment opportunities in the Gambia. And Eventhough, Gambia
>>has
>>serious economic challenges, Mr. Jammeh
>>acquired a plane, and he seems to be directly linked with the
>>business
>>tycoons in the country. There are
>>allegations that Jawara might have tolerated corruption in his
>>Administration, but Jammeh is directly involve
>>with some of these activities that pose serious long term problems
>>to the
>>country. In addition, what would
>>you tell some of the seriously disappointed coup supporters, who
>>were
>>interested in developmental projects,
>>political stability, preservation of individual rights, independent
>>judiciary, an end to corruption, and a
>>new beginning to a new Gambia full of hope and stability. And
>>Mr.Jobe, no
>>matter how convincing the project
>>argument is there is more to a promising Gambia than the same old
>>justification.
>>
>>The other single issue that even people who disagree with the
>>Jawara
>>Administration, in a way missed is that
>>semblance of democracy, fair play, non-government intervention, not
>>getting
>>school children shot at and
>>killed, and the absence of musical chairs in the civil and public
>>service.
>>The Jawara era argument is, yes we
>>did not build schools, but we did not murder kids either, and we
>>definitely
>>believed in the rule of law.
>>I look forward to your comments to the issues raised.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Musa Jeng
>>
>>
>>saul khan wrote:
>>
>> > Mr. Jobe,
>> >
>> > I just finished reading your second submission, and your answers
>>to some
>>of
>> > the questions posed. I have to apologize for some of the typos,
>>and
>> > grammatical errors in my posting yesterday. I was racing against
>>time
>>for a
>> > meeting, while trying to eat lunch. I do have a few more
>>concerns, and
>> > questions about your Part 1, but I wouldn't want to disturb your
>>flow at
>> > this point. Do keep your presentation coming.
>> >
>> > Again, I thank you for putting up a strong defence of the APRC
>>regime. I
>> > sincerely believe that as long as we keep these exchanges frank,
>>our
>>nation
>> > will be the better for it. Needless to say, some of us find it
>>impossible to
>> > understand how any intelligent person can support Yaya Jammeh,
>>but your
>> > rationale for doing just that, is helping us understand what
>>goes on in
>>the
>> > "brains" behind the APRC regime. I don't think your task is by
>>any means
>> > easy, but your courage to attempt a rationalization of your
>>support for
>>the
>> > APRC is commendable. And I sincerely commend you for that.
>> >
>> > On the questions I posed, you haven't answered most of them at
>>all. But
>> > reading through, I have a feeling that you're a little
>>hard-pressed for
>> > time, and like I said, I don't want to side track you with
>>anything. As
>> > absurd as I find your reasons for supporting the regime, I
>>believe you
>> > deserve a chance to present your story fully. For that reason,
>>I'll hold
>> > back my questions, and concerns, and give you the chance to
>>present your
>> > case in it's entirety. I'll then re-phrase the questions I
>>posed, point
>>out
>> > anomalies I detect, and we can take it from there. This, of
>>course has
>>no
>> > bearing on what other members here want to do. It's a
>>free-for-all
>>afterall.
>> >
>> > Do let us know when you're done with your submission, so those
>>of us who
>> > want to restrain ourselves until you've had your say, can
>>present our
>> > rebuttal. I again hope for your sake that people like Tombong
>>would jump
>>in
>> > to add to some of the good points you've made. I have my fingers
>>crossed
>>for
>> > that. Thanks again for your efforts.
>> >
>> > Good day!
>> >
>> > Saul.
>> >
>> > In part1 of "why I can support the APRC government despite...",
>>I made
>>it
>> > very clear in the last paragraph of the intro that, as well as
>>explaining
>> > why I can still support the APRC government despite all that has
>>been
>>said
>> > about it, I will also explain WHY NONE OF THE EXISTING
>>OPPOSITION
>>PARTIES
>> > HAS ANY CHANCE OF BEATING THE APRC COME THE NEXT ELECTIONS. For
>>that
>>reason
>> > I will refrain from answering some of the questions that are
>>asked or
>>may be
>> > asked until then.
>> >
>> >
>>_________________________________________________________________
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>> >
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