Dampha, why can't you for once be honest and use your brain. You just rant and rave like a madman whenever any body says anything about the UDP that you don't like. I have on several occasions advised you not be too narrow minded. Why are you finding it that difficult that thick stuff between your ears logically to see the bigger picture? You know that you are lying through teeth when you said: "I think we can agree to disagree on this one. I think however that you have been bamboozled by Joke. See, Joke is not loyal to the party at all. Joke is loyal to Yaya and Yaya only. If defending Yaya means saying that the party is culpable, he will say so. If it means saying that the army is culpable, he will say so. For the Jokes of this world, the buck stops at them. So long as Yaya has not touched them personally, they would not even fight for their own blood relative. So if Joke concedes something in the name of the army or the APRC or Isatou Njie-Saidy, Joke is not giving the Opposition anything in the larger scheme of things. Without Yaya, APRC is nothing. Conceding in APRC's name, does not represent a conflict of interests in the issues that matter. So your continued insistence that Joke is loyal to the party, evinces that you are looking at the wrong relationship. I am looking at Joke and Yaya. You are looking at Joke and the APRC. Tell me what relationship is more important to the big picture? What character had a bigger impact on the Massacre of our children? Yaya or APRC"? You see your warped mind at work again. Where and when did I apportion blame to the APRC, the Army or isatou Njie-Saidy or our dead school children alone? When you talk of bamboozling any body it is your very self that you are refering to. Yusupha wrote: "Again, while I believe that anything but the APRC will suffice after the next elections, I am not satisfied with the way the UDP has conducted its affairs. I do not think there is anything wrong with raising this grave concern, especially when the elections are right around the corner. My discretion in raising these points would be to assume that this is not an open secret. In other words, EVERYONE WITH AN INKLING OF COMMON SENSE SHOULD KNOW THE UDP IS HEADED FOR AN ELECTION LOSS IF THINGS DON'T CHANGE VERY QUICKLY. Only the UDP and her supporters can change this possibly catastrophe, and I figured highlighting the issue for all to see would help bring...". Emphasis mine. Dampha, the above speaks volumes. Do you really want to tell me that you don't see anything wrong in the ways and manner the UDP is conducting its affairs? Can't you sense the high level of frustration, desperation and lack of understanding of UDP's strategy in your camp? For God's sake wake up! You wrote: "Brings me to the issue concerning Waa Juwara's comments about the women and politics. I cannot understand how you can say that he does not believe in the equal representation of women in politics and other walks of life. First of all, as I understand it, the man was not being asked to spell out UDP's policies vis-a-vis the uplifting of women in society as a whole. According to my reading, he was asked a specific question about the role of women in political parties. Among other things, he said that all the political parties were open to women. There was NO barrier stopping women from entering into and thriving in politics in Gambia. No glass-ceiling in Affirmative Action parlance. To buttress his point he pointed to people like Mariam Denton to show that UDP is NOT hostile to women. What Waa did not also point out was that the influence and respect Mariam has in UDP CANNOT be compared to the influence any woman has in APRC. The woman is a professional that represents the party in court in very important case. She campaigns vigorously for the party and the leadership listens to her ideas". Dampha let your narrow mindedness run riot with your intellect if you must. Is it news to Gambians that women are free to join any political party of their choice? Lamin Waa Juwara was clearly asked about his opinion about the current genda sensitizations going on in the country and the growing call for women's increased participation in active politics. Rather than stating his opinion and by extension that of his party, he instead accuses the women involved as schemers who are just monoevering to be nominated to the national assembly. What twisted logic! For your information, the women concern are none other than Satang Joberteh, Mrs. Adeilade Sosseh Gaye, Juka Jabang et al. There is no getting around that fact. The evidence? In the development column of the observer of late carried numerous articles on the lack of active participation of women in politics by Satang Joberteh. In a recent symposium on the same that was followed by a radio phone-in programme, Mrs. Juka Jabang gave an indebt analysis of the obstacles that face Gambian women when it comes to their participation in active politics. Amongst the issues raised included amongst others our general perception of politics and the financial constraints faced by women. Mrs Adeilade Sosseh on the other hand has been writing in the Daily observer about how gender sensitive the 1997 constitution is compared to the 1970 constitution. Do you know, for instance, that in the 1970 constitution citizenship was based on your parternal leanage? In other words according to the 1970 constitution, children of Gambian mothers born outside the country of non Gambian fathers did not get automatic citizenship? These are the same people and a few others plus, I believe actionaid, that are twinning young impressionable girls with professional career ladies who are also mothers and respectable wives. This is an alternative approach wereby these girls will develop a more possitive attitude towards their education as well as their general attitude to life. These are the same people together with others who are aslo enlightening our young boys about the need to lead responsible lives and help protect our young girls. If you are honest with yourself you will remember that, it is not so long ago when people actually boasted of impregnating X, Y or Z. It is not so long ago that our sugar daddies went about irresponsibly impregnating our school girls left, right and center. And where did it take us? A more than doubling of our population in less than 2 decades. In the light of the above I posit that rather than make that irresponsible and derogatory remark about very fine ladies, Waa juwara should have explained what the UDP stance towards these issues were. And when you want to tell us that waa juwara was speaking as an individual and not on behalf of the UDP, who are you kidding? The Question was directed to Lamin waa Juwara, the propoganda secretary of the UDP and not Waa Juwara the person. When you said: "Now having demonstrated that there was no glass-ceiling in the UDP hierarchy to the detriment of women, does it make sense for the man to turn around and tell the interviewer how to solve a problem that does not exist? Can you solve a gender bias that does not exist? Before you subscribe to the notion that Waa and UDP are 'antifeminist', why don't you point out to tangible examples that show that the party discriminated against women. How many women has shown an interest in politics and were turned away by the UDP? Waa gave you Mariam's example. Come with a counter example. The fact that there are very few women in politics in Gambia can be explained by a number of factors. To narrow the factors down to gender bias, is absurd. There are equally few highly educated people in politics in Gambia. Do you want to tell us that political parties discriminate against educated folks and that is why we do not have a lot of MPs with post-graduate degrees? Is it not conceivable that women and educated Gambians are generally disinterested in politics"? What utter rubbish again? It is a very big disgrace and an insult to decent Gambian women for you or Waa Juwara to try to parade Mariama Denton as a typical Gambian woman, for SHE IS NOT! The lady comes from a big and very educated and rich family, whose brother was disgraced by the Alghali commission for corruption. She has every reason to dispise this regime. I have no qualms about that but to try to paint her as a typical Gambian woman is total bull. Even with all these advantages over 99% of Gambian women, do you think Mariama Denton is crazy to try to stand for elections? Not a chance. You know it, the UDP knows it and so does every right thinking man in this country. You again wrote: "It is unfair to castigate Waa and the UDP without digesting the issue properly. Joke (and you in your piece) discourage people from confusing Yaya and the APRC; stating that Yaya is not solely responsible for what the party does and vice versa. Yet you pick up Waa's statements, twist it, and then ascribe the statements to the UDP. I am not trying to dissociate the party from what Waa said, because I think what he said was perfectly in line. I just want to highlight the inconsistency of your arguments. Again, I reiterate that I firmly believe in what Waa said until you or Joke can give us tangible examples to show that UDP is biased towards women. Counteract Waa's examples". You see your twisted logic and warped mind at play again. Myopic bigotry is all there is to your above statements. You again wrote: "He was simply saying that if Mariam can do it in the UDP, surely other women can do it too without the need to give them stuff on a plate. It is UNFAIR for Mariam to struggle with the party while some of ur 'women-libbers' sit on the side-lines or support the APRC and once the UDP comes to power, they surface with their entitlement mentality saying that they are entitled to top positions in the name of affirmative action. That is wrong and that is what Waa was talking about. Am sure Waa will say the same thing about some of our educated folk that want to stay aloof during the struggle, but when things change they appear and start demanding things. It is not about gender bias. It is about fundamental fairness. The party is NOT stopping any woman from joining the struggle now. But it has every right to warn off parasites that want to use affirmative action to get things they were not willing to struggle for". Dampha if, even before you have an election strategy or program of action, all you are thinking about is who occupies what post then you are as stupid as they come. You again wrote: "Just for the record, I am a big proponent of affirmative action here in the U.S. The difference is that I can point to a glass-ceiling. That is what you guys that are castigating Waa cannot do. You cannot counteract the examples he gave in his interview. Now turning to the role of women in society at large. Why don't you and Joke start by asking the man his views on that and his party's views on that? You cannot say that by addressing the fairness issue that was posed directly to him, he evinced that he hates women and does not want them to get ahead. If anything, that shows that the man believed in the abilities of our women. He said that any woman that was interested in politics and wanted to join the UPD would be treated like any respectable counterpart (male or female). Can the party do more to encourage women to join politics? Probably yes. But that is very different from saying that the party is biased against women. I think Hamjatta and others have touched on the despicable record of the APRC women". Dampha being a proponent of affirmative action in the US has no relevance to women living in the Gambia. As the Mandinkas say "Mafanta faata Pari, Angalewol la muneh be jay"? In other words what has the death of Mafanta, in Paris, got to do with the English? As for asking Waa Juwara his views or his party's views on gender sensitization or on affitmative action, my answer is NO! We will not ask ziltch. He was given the opportunity to do so but instead he uses that opportunity to castigate very respectable women. Finally I am puttint it to you that it is very dis-honest of you, Waa Juwara or the UDP if you want to tell us that both men and women have equal opportunity to participate in active politics in the Gambia. The playing field is NOT LEVEL and the ODDS ARE HEAVILY STACKED AGAINST WOMEN. Have a good day and bye 4Now, KB Jobe. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html You may also send subscription requests to [log in to unmask] if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your full name and e-mail address. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------