Essa, Keep your head up!!!!! That is exactly the hypocrisy and twisting of the facts that some people on this L try to make us believe, let them keep on dreaming that this tactic will unseat the APRC. The fact remains that Ebou colley has been dinning with these people for a long time and when things fell apart he decided to come out of the closet, I can still remember one of his visits in New York City when he told someone(name withheld) that "Just give us time and in the next 2 yrs, all of you will want to return home". I still consider him as one of them and after the APRC era I will not even hesitate to prosecute him on lesser charges as part of the APRC bandwagon. Once again, Keep you head up!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanxxx Bass Ndow " The Mind of the apathetic is self-centered. The mind of the ignorant is myopic. Self-centered and myopic minds cannot conceive the demands of the common good. The hearts of such people cannot appreciate those who struggle to promote common good"---foroyaa >From: Elow Wole <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: FOOLISH KEBBA DAMPHA!! - >Halifa_Sallah's_Reply_To_Ebou_Colley - >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:50:08 -0000 > >KB, >You need to shut the hell up and keep on believing in your beliefs. You >need to cut the bullshit and stop the name calling. And who the hell are >you? Where are you from? Who knows you? I hope I never see or meet fools >like you. Or do you think you're popular coz you've been yapping on each >and every posting on this forum. Talking about cyber bickering, how da heck >do you think you can defeat the ruling party? By wishful cyber >brainstorming perhaps? Analyze this, analyze that..., ANALYZE YOU, >BROTHER! > >And matter of fact, shove your reply to guts, and take a long puff! > >Essa > > > >>From: Dampha Kebba <[log in to unmask]> >>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >><[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Halifa_Sallah's_Reply_To_Ebou_Colley_-_Coup_In_The_Gambia_ >>Six >>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:19:16 -0400 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Originating-IP: [204.71.174.14] >>Received: from [149.68.45.24] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >>MHotMailBCEE2C1A00414004371595442D180D2120; Mon Jun 11 08:20:34 2001 >>Received: from maelstrom.stjohns.edu (149.68.45.24) by >>maelstrom.stjohns.edu (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id >><[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:19:44 -0500 >>Received: from MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU by MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >>(LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 681579 for >>[log in to unmask]; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:19:41 -0500 >>Received: from hotmail.com (216.33.237.33) by maelstrom.stjohns.edu (LSMTP >>for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id >><[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:19:41 >>-0500 >>Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; >>Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:19:16 -0700 >>Received: from 204.71.174.14 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, >>11 Jun 2001 15:19:16 GMT >>From [log in to unmask] Mon Jun 11 08:21:37 2001 >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 15:19:16.0608 (UTC) >> FILETIME=[E105F800:01C0F289] >>Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]> >>Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >><[log in to unmask]> >> >>Mr. Colly, point well made. As numerous people have stated, no one in the >>Opposition wins when our leaders lash out at each other. I hope Mr. Halifa >>Sallah will take your explanation in good faith. I was tempted on Friday >>to >>point out to him that your main focus as far as the Meeting was concerned, >>was to unmask the APRC stalwarts. But I thought it would be better if the >>two of you settle whatever differences you might have on your own. >>Secondly, >>I had already made a private decision to stop commenting on Party Politics >>and the inter-party squabbles certain people are fond of engaging in on >>G_L. >>I had decided to instead focus on Yaya and his gang rather than dwelling >>on >>whether Ousainou Darboe, Halifa Sallah or Hamat Bah is a better leader. To >>me it does not matter who among those three leads us after October 2001. I >>know you feel the same too. >> >>I would still have gone ahead and refrained from commenting on our >>Opposition leaders after reading your piece, because I feel that you >>adequately explained your position to Mr. Sallah. You were merely >>narrating >>what you SAW and HEARD. You did NOT try to make up anything. But the >>reason >>I decided to comment is to appeal to you publicly to resume your >>invaluable >>narratives about the July 22, 1994 'coup'. Mr. Colly, the casual G_L >>reader >>might not know, but certain people know the efforts put in by many >>(including your humble self) for months to try and get the ball rolling on >>your narratives. It is very important that the average Gambian knows what >>happened to put us in the predicament we are in today. It is important >>that >>the average Gambian knows the true colors of the thugs holding our country >>to ransom. There is simply no one with the wherewithal or the commitment >>to >>put the record straight as you do. As you know, efforts were made in the >>past and continue to be made to get other soldiers to come out and tell >>their stories like you are doing. Some have decided to embark on other >>useful projects for the struggle; which is fine. You volunteered among >>other >>things to come to G_L and unmask the Devils that stole our country. >> >>As attested by (local Gambian) public reaction to your revelations, what >>you >>are saying is very important. People are eager to read 'Ebou Colly's next >>piece'. I mean decent people. Of course the vermin and people with >>skeletons >>in their closets do not want to read your revelations. We have to continue >>with the tunnel vision of getting rid of Yaya. Along the way, there will >>be >>numerous detractors with various agendas. Our task is to attribute to >>those >>distractions the contempt they deserve. I am not advocating for you to >>ignore attacks you think are unjustified. What I am trying to say is that >>those 'attacks' should not make you lose sight of the big prize. I find >>disturbing your willingness to suspend your exposes and instead 'engage' >>Mr. >>Sallah. Engage Mr. Sallah if you have to, but please do NOT deprive the >>Gambian public 'Ebou Colly's next installment'. Again, I hope everyone >>realize that Yaya and his cohorts are the enemy. They are the ones that >>are >>currently slaughtering innocent and defenseless Gambians. They are the >>ones >>illegally incarcerating innocent Gambians. They are the ones that are >>currently looting our government coffers. They are the ones that are >>currently disgracing the Gambians in the international community. >> >>It pains me when I see clowns and self-promoters come on G_L and fantasize >>about FUTURE atrocities UDP MIGHT inflict on non-Mandinkas if and when UDP >>wins an election in the country. But Mr. Colly, instead of anger, I feel >>pity for these misguided elements and I also feel sorry for our people on >>the ground that are suffering the brunt of Yaya's atrocities. Everyday I >>read G_L and other publications and talk to certain Gambians, it becomes >>clearer to me that our salvation lies away from the ballot box. All the >>more >>reason why you should continue on your program. >> >>I hope that Gambians will be reading 'Ebou Colly's COUP IN GAMBIA SEVEN' >>next Weekend. Thanks again for your invaluable contributions. >>KB >> >> >> >>>From: ebou colly <[log in to unmask]> >>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>><[log in to unmask]> >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Halifa_Sallah's_Reply_To_Ebou_Colley_-_Coup_In_The_Gambia_ >>> Six >>>Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:58:55 -0700 >>> >>>MR. SALLAH >>>To be frank with you Mr. Sallah, I hate hurting >>>people's feelings for no good reason. Therefore for a >>>while after reading your piece on me, highlighted by >>>angry remarks from what you said was my distortion of >>>the fact you presented in the Bronx a couple of weeks >>>ago, I thought I should have simply written back few >>>statements apologizing for what I thought was mere >>>misunderstanding. Anyway after a second review of >>>your article I came to realize that I had nothing to >>>apologize for after all. >>>In the first place, Mr. Sallah, I still don't know how >>>you missed it but my article was not in anyway written >>>to report the cause or effect of the symposium held in >>>the Bronx. I don't think there is a need for me to say >>>it but I will still go ahead and state it anyway; that >>>the central theme of my piece was the sixth part of >>>the narrative I have been writing about on the 1994 >>>coup in The Gambia. >>>My presence at that meeting was of minimal >>>significance to what you have come to present about >>>your party's doctrine in the USA. Anyway I'm glad that >>>you mentioned Manding Darbo. He was one person who was >>>aware of my presence at the meeting and could >>>therefore bear me witness that I arrived there after >>>10:00 p.m. and left barely an hour later. As a result >>>given the fact that that was the only session of yours >>>I attended since your arrival, I could not have been >>>in that position of authority in anyway to criticize >>>your party's efforts to be better understood here. >>>When I walked into that hall that day, I found Mr. >>>Darbo on his feet addressing the audience >>>From what I understood you had, by then, already given >>>your keynote address. Perhaps that was the time when >>>you presented that comprehensive breakdown of your >>>party's economic strategies with regards to the >>>damnable economic mismanagement that has rendered The >>>Gambia chronically indebted and the solution you >>>theoretically had for it. I only read about most of >>>that in your piece written from an ill-conceived >>>judgement. Without doubt when the coalition topic was >>>raised you gave a protracted analysis of the important >>>factors to be considered against the background of >>>what you called a tactical instrument which was >>>paramount in Senegal's last presidential election. >>>Politically, in your discussion you certainly talked >>>about the coalition format of the P.S., Gibo Kah's >>>party and that of Niasse's all to, of course, to rub >>>in your point that a coalition was better ventured >>>into in the second and not first round of presidential >>>election. Economically I also heard you talking about >>>the disadvantage of capitalism when "11% of the labor >>>force in The Gambia is employed by the formal sector >>>comprising of the public, 'parastatals' and private >>>sector". To buttress your public-run enterprises you >>>briefly explained how a PDOI government would exploit >>>the fishing industry by buying fishing trawlers and >>>building fish-processing plants and hiring Gambians to >>>work there. That was all I could account for in what >>>you, Mr. Sallah, had said about the coalition agenda. >>>I will come to that later. >>>Anyway in that Bronx hall, after Mr. Darbo's speech, >>>which he delivered in English and Mandinka, it was >>>followed by the introduction of the executive members >>>of the NY movement who made the meeting possible. And >>>then came the question and answer time from the >>>audience. >>> If I am not mistaken it was after one or two persons >>>spoke that Mr. Saul Mbenga came up with the question >>>of the controversial coalition. Roughly twenty minutes >>>later I was on my way home especially after realizing >>>to my great disappointment that the prospect of >>>opposition-party coalition for The Gambia's >>>presidential election, something I strongly desired, >>>had little chance of materializing, thanks to PDOIS' >>>intransigence. >>>So you see Mr. Sallah, you could notice that I was not >>>necessarily in tune with all the economic theories you >>>highlighted apart from the ones you mentioned in that >>>short period between when the coalition question was >>>asked and when I left the hall for home. As I said >>>earlier I did not hear all those grandiose economic >>>theories you said you discussed or argued about from >>>Washington to New York. >>>Here I would again remind you that my article was far >>>from a report of the Bronx meeting but the sixth part >>>of my series on the coup in the Gambia with the >>>limited mention of my experience in that hall that >>>day. Evidently my focal subject was the APRC loyalist >>>often disguised in our midst as typified by those two >>>elements I surely resented so much. >>>Anyway it certainly went beyond that when I also >>>decided to discuss for mainly the consumption of the >>>Lers what I understood to be a serious obstacle in >>>this issue of opposition coalition that had been a >>>critical subject of interest to most of them. From >>>what I understand, it was the dream of most of us that >>>the opposition parties in The Gambia will, come >>>October, put all their differences apart, political, >>>economic or philosophical and form a unified front to >>>get rid of Yaya Jammeh. Just like you put it in your >>>closing statements about the wrongs committed by Yaya >>>to the Gambian nation, he is definitely the worst >>>thing that has ever happened to our country and the >>>need to wipe him out should be prioritized over any >>>individual party's hopes or aspirations. It was >>>therefore our belief in the Diaspora that the >>>opposition parties coming together NOW would >>>tremendously help in this effort. Anything otherwise, >>>I personally feared would put the country in that >>>hopeless situation where we might end up with Yaya >>>defiantly persecuting one group of opposing forces to >>>the other while some others frantically search for >>>nonexistent answers in the prostituted constitution or >>>in the useless office of the chief justice. I hope you >>>could relate to what I am driving at. >>>So Mr. Sallah, I hope you now got it clear that I was >>>not trying to reduce all that you had said "to a >>>defense of a state-controlled economic system. Nor was >>>I showing my little respect for fact and objectivity. >>>By referring to those two elements against the >>>background of your statement that seemed to anger you >>>so much might be inappropriate on my side, but >>>certainly it did not mean that I had "little taste for >>>facts and much taste for fiction". I think you were >>>unnecessarily hard on me my friend. >>>It is pitiful that your party spent over D20, 000.00 >>>for the long travel to the USA just for you to go back >>>with only $500.00. And too bad still that some >>>Washingtonians robbed you of more money by taking your >>>party's paraphernalia without giving you a dime. If >>>they really knew that the items were for your party's >>>fund raising but chose to ignore that, then I think >>>you have the right to call it a foul. But if they were >>>not informed by anyone then the blame should be >>>redirected to a different target. Anyway I don't know >>>why me. By the way, was it that those who invited you >>>to come gave you the impression that substantial >>>amount of money was awaiting you to receive after all >>>that huge expense to come to the US? I could have >>>never known. >>>Anyhow Mr. Sallah let's move on. When I read your >>>piece on me, I was surprised by the degree of >>>sincerity you said guided your line of argument on the >>>subject. "I spoke with sincerity and fairness", you >>>emphatically stated. Then down the line after you >>>said you argued about the critical issues surrounding >>>the possibility of a coalition in the first round of >>>voting you wrote: "I did not want the discussion to >>>degenerate into argument. I therefore posed the >>>question as to what formulae Darbo had in mind for the >>>selection of the presidential candidate". Did that >>>really mean that you were not necessarily interested >>>in that question or its answer but only made to divert >>>the trend of discussion to avoid argument, as you put >>>it? If so then the level of our honest appreciation of >>>the situation must have been ludicrous. >>>Then you further wrote: "At that point any competent >>>observer would be able to read from Darbo's words that >>>when he was talking about an "electable" candidate he >>>did not have any formulae in mind for the coalition to >>>select its candidate". >>>I may be an incompetent observer but as far as I could >>>observe, Mr. Darbo's reaction showed me that the >>>selection of a presidential candidate should not be >>>the main obstacle to the coalition and could be worked >>>out after an agreement was struck in principle. After >>>all I don't think Mr. Saul Mbenga who asked the >>>original question or any of those who were listening >>>for answers expected you or Mr. Darbo to be fully >>>prepared for all the answers especially on that very >>>sensitive question. >>>Anyway up to the time I left the hall neither you nor >>>Mr. Darbo presented any formula for selecting the >>>candidate. I was however surprised to read what you >>>wrote here: "For example, PDOIS's presidential >>>candidate would easily accept being a president for >>>one year to restore all the constitutional provisions >>>that are reasonable and justifiable in a democratic >>>society. Strengthening the IEC, open up the media and >>>then call for another presidential election after >>>creating the constitutional machinery for that to take >>>place in a year after assuming office. In that case >>>the people would have made an undiluted choice. Such >>>formulae are bases for coalition. We can go on and on. >>>Other parties may also come up with their own >>>formulae." >>>Now Mr. Sallah, it seemed that you were really talking >>>here. Although your statement tend to refer to what a >>>PDOIS presidential candidate would do after >>>immediately assuming office, my instincts, after >>>evaluating your last sentences here made me conclude >>>that this is exactly the fundamental terms and >>>conditions your party would want to settle for in a >>>coalition bid. >>>I did not however stay at the Bronx hall to the end of >>>the meeting but since you thought Mr. Darbo was >>>unprepared for a coalition formula while you were, I >>>hope by all that sincerity and honesty you had >>>claimed, you did present your conditions as you had >>>done in your article. If not, why? After all that >>>might have triggered Mr. Darbo into airing out his >>>views too. But to categorically think that Mr. Darbo >>>had had no formula in mind that day for the coalition >>>to select a candidate is absolutely baffling. Anyway >>>looking at the reason you said was the purpose of >>>asking for formulae for a coalition, the real issue >>>was not honestly being discussed. You said you were >>>merely trying to avoid things degenerating into an >>>argument. I did not know that the seemingly good >>>rapport between the two of you was that tense. >>>Pure capitalism and pure socialism! This is another >>>issue you seemed to have blown out of proportion Mr. >>>Sallah making it sound as if I did not know what I was >>>talking about. When I used the word pure here I meant >>>it to only emphasize my point, like you did when you >>>talked about undiluted choices. Anyway I know that >>>socialism or capitalism could not be pure or impure >>>equally as choices could not be diluted or undiluted. >>>However when in the middle of the coalition discussion >>>you mentioned that your party believed in socialism >>>while the other parties did not and even branded Mr. >>>Hamat Bah as a self-proclaimed capitalist with Mr. >>>Darbo also standing firm in the economic policy of his >>>party, I felt the ultimate crash in my hopes for a >>>coalition. My mention of the incompartibility of the >>>two rival systems was a derivative from what the >>>originators of socialist philosophy had taught mankind >>>about it since at the beginning. Marx, Angel, Lenin, >>>Mao, Kim IL Sung, Kwame Nkrumah, from the founding >>>fathers to the active propagators of the obsolete >>>philosophy, these men for ages had confidently >>>promoted the belief that man as a social and economic >>>being was in the process of evolving for the >>>ultimately great economic system. It was stated in >>>Dialectical Materialism that man's first settlement >>>after the roaming clan, naturally adopted the economic >>>system of communalism. And after a while, that system >>>evolved into feudalism which eventually gave way to >>>capitalism. And capitalism by their standards was >>>defined as the last stage of the old developmental >>>pattern, which would come to an end, not by evolution >>>this time but by revolution. One of the most popular >>>but highly erroneous concepts of the true believers >>>was that capitalism was going be the master of its own >>>destruction when its time to disintegrate had arrived. >>>It was said that as a result of its economic growth >>>pattern, the rich would continue to be richer while >>>the poor got poorer until a revolution by the masses >>>forced the few privileged ones at the top to come down >>>and be replaced by the dictatorship of the >>>proletariat. Of course the reality of the existence of >>>a viable middle class as part of the capitalist class >>>equation that would maintain the system at where it >>>was estimated to collapse never occurred in the minds >>>of those so-called great thinkers. However their >>>utopian economic emancipation was defined as a >>>wonderful society where everybody would be equal, >>>everyone employed, each working according to his >>>ability and earning according to his needs. Yet >>>individual difference or ability was not given much >>>weight. >>>I believe that George Owel's satirical novel, Animal >>>Farm showed us all the shortcomings, contradictions, >>>and above all the imminent failure of such an >>>unnatural system. >>> It was a system meant to function under a >>>state-controlled economy with no tolerance for >>>anything capitalistic. Certainly the system has been >>>dying since the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1991, >>>the first country to implement it after the Russian >>>Revolution of 1917 and hopelessly tried to perfect it >>>for decades. Nevertheless, there are still few >>>die-hard believers who would not give it up, perhaps >>>because of old chronic habits. >>>Therefore when Mr. Sallah stated that his party was >>>socialistic in principle which should be put under >>>consideration in the coalition issue and further >>>specified on Mr. Hamat Bah's capitalistic views, I did >>>not know that he had in mind another socialism >>>different from the originally prescribed order. That >>>was why I said that with Mr. Dardo and Mr. Hamat Bah >>>echoing similar sentiments in the economic system of >>>capitalism, they would not be able to mix with PDOIS >>>for those obvious reasons. >>>Now to my surprise again, Mr. Sallah has come up to >>>tell me that their socialism, which we are yet to >>>experience its practicability, is something else. And >>>he seemed to confidently think that it could solve >>>Gambia's economic problems just like that. Did we not >>>witness how nature or God interfered with the master >>>plan of the North Koreans, one of the most organized >>>socialist countries before.? >>>So Mr. Sallah you could see that I was not bringing >>>any new concepts when I mentioned pure socialism and >>>pure capitalism not mixing, but I also did not know >>>that the obsolete socialism once propagated by the >>>Marxists could come in another form and still being >>>called socialism. I would love to see that text of >>>yours you talked about with Saja Taal. Perhaps that >>>would enlighten me about the socialism you are talking >>>about. >>>Anyway how could you say that Mr. Darbo's economic >>>program was in conflict with what he said the other >>>day about subsidizing the female farmers in their >>>gardening projects? I don't think capitalism forbids >>>state-funded projects especially when it comes to >>>subsidizing the ordinary farmer's efforts. >>>However regardless of all the denial in your spoken >>>and written words, at the end of the day I seriously >>>think that you are the very one who is anti-coalition >>>but don't want to admit it up front. >>>Listen to your self here again: "Reflecting on the >>>NRP-UDP Kiang coalition…do we conclude that the APRC >>>is popular or do we conclude that there is a need for >>>a third force that would be able to earn the >>>confidence of the people to up root the APRC"? >>>As far as I am concerned, the Kiang scenario does not >>>demand a third force as such to up root the APRC. >>>Instead the Kiang situation was the learning >>>experience for the opposition parties to be prepared >>>to face the APRC with all the resources and ideas they >>>could muster together to get rid of Yaya in the first >>>round. Yaya should never be allowed to win the first >>>round, come rain come storm. >>>In conclusion Mr. Sallah read what you wrote here >>>again: "Those who sincerely want change in The Gambia >>>should encourage the party of your choice to do its >>>best and not undermine others who are doing their >>>best. This is the code of conduct that all those who >>>want change should adopt". >>>I don't know how you equated our ability to read and >>>comprehend written words but Mr. Sallah, it is glaring >>>that coalition is the last thing you want to go for if >>>ever you would want to. >>>But please can you do me one favor? Can you please add >>>limitation of term of office for the presidency in >>>your host of formulae for the top seat? If I have the >>>opportunity to communicate to Mr. Darbo and Mr. Bah I >>>will ask for the same favor. It is my conviction that >>>transparency and accountability is still the key to >>>good governance; and this could only be obtained when >>>presidents understand in their heads that they will be >>>going at a known time the very day they assumed >>>office, preferably in a period of two terms of five >>>years only. Let's say ten years maximum! >>>If the president is genuinely accountable to the >>>people who elected him, everything about checks and >>>balances will automatically fall in its proper place. >>>I am not going to say bye, because I know your >>>endurance to go toe to toe for the final knockout; but >>>hey, I think I can suspend my weekly series on the >>>coup and engage you all the way to the last round. >>>So hope to hear from you soon, body. >>>Greetings! >>> >>>Ebou Colly. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>You may also send subscription requests to >>[log in to unmask] >>if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write >>your >>full name and e-mail address. >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >You may also send subscription requests to >[log in to unmask] >if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your >full name and e-mail address. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html You may also send subscription requests to [log in to unmask] if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your full name and e-mail address. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------