Guys: Please, excuse me for typing errors. My keyboard stiffs when striking keys. Ansumana. >From: Mr Makaveli <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: My Perspectives On The Gambia-L Rules Et Al >Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:49:09 -0500 > >Folks, > On the issue of Gambia-L rules, I'm just curious as to how many times >we have to remind each other that we are NOT miniature adults here and >that we expect a certain level of respect from one another, even when we >disagree. Hell, life has never been easy for our brothers and sisters, and >although I try very hard to not trivialize the issues raise by many of >you, I simply cannot condone to the notion that List Managers should be >acting as Bounty Hunters, Judge and Jury, as well as Parole and Probation >Officers, all at the same time. This to me is time consuming, counter- >productive and at best a little far-fetching.And if that's the case they >might as well transform Gambia-L into a Support Group facility if you know >what I mean. Remeber one time they have this thing where you introduce >yourself when you first subscribe to the G_L , like this : >[ACTION!]... > Hi everyone, my name is such and such and I am a recovering acoholic and > I...................bada-bong..bada-bang..bada-bing (o-:)lol >[CUT!]. >Think I'm joking? Maybe I am but you see what I'm getting at. I'm just >glad no taxpayer's 'dalasis' have been exhausted to the last 'butut' on >such a fruitless campaign to silence some list members in the opposition. >What a trend this has become lately. One strike and you outta here. Yuk! >Ladies and gentlemen, censorship is a billion dollar business and I'm sure >this NO news to many of you. Please let us not waste time and resources on >this. > >I also understand it that Mr Ansumana Kujabi has been on probation since >February and no one ever heard from Prof Assan anymore. The Essa Thomases >are about to follow suit,all gone for good, and by the time we realize that >the rules in place are horrendously deficient in judgment and lack merit >nor moral ground, many what could have been fine contributors will be >forced to hit the superhighway of what is infact modern technology if in >fact such rules arre not deregulated in the interest of all and sundry. >All these euphoric brouhaha for breaking vagrant rules in a cyber forum? >Even world renown hackers don't spend that much time in the penitentiary . >Just as I abhor adding fuel to a burning fire and hate to uncompromise the >competence of our poor List Managers who have to put up with us (Gambians), >I simply just don't idly believe that having these Supreme Court decision >making tactics in cyber forum is the solution to the problem. For some us >maybe, but certainly not for all us. The 'Delete' button on our keyboard >has a very specific purpose. No need for me to explain what for.The fact >remains that you goona have the Kebba Jobes who proudly chose to hide their >identity, say whatever they feel like and have no same or repercussions. He >keeps telling us his identity is not the issue but those who write here >with their real names are forced to be accountable with what they write >here. So it does no justice treat the likes of Kebba Jobe lightly while >putting the Ansumana Kujabis, who I may add uses his real name, under such >intense microscopic scrutiny. Because The Ansumana Kujabis use their real >name they either defend themselves by putting their points across and >apologize whe they see any wrong-doing. But for the Kebba Jobes, what do >they have to loose. They don't take the risk many of us who use our real >names put ourselves when we provide damaging information to say the APRC >for instance. For all I know they can curse at anyone they choose, get >delisted and come back with 5 or 10 alias and still do whatever their heart >desires. To that note, purnishment to those who use their real name seems >more severe. I can go and on with other incidences but as you see folks, >it is almost impossible to control a forum of consenting adults of this >magnitude. That is why we should be open minded and try to have a certain >level of respect for one another. if our conscience doesn't help us, our >emotions will not either. > >In a forum where the overwhelming majority are speaking out daily to free >Dumo et al, I find it rather ironic that, that same forum is in contempt >with trying to incarcerate some it's most ardent and loyal members,putting >them incommunicado and giving them persona non-grata status. What we have >to understand that a lot of us in the struggle for the restoration of >democrasy, peace and justice are indeen very oppressed, subjected to all >forms of injustice and so in light of this fact we should expect emotions >to run high and have few ugly altercations here and there. Overall what is >paramount to note at the end of the day is that the essence/rudiments of >participatory dialogue among fellow Gambians must be allowed to exist >over the ilks preconceived misconceptions. Views will differs and it is the >responsibilities of list members to matters into their own hands and >apologize when one is needed as opposed to list managers trying to micro- >manage what they have no control over. They should more worried about >keeping the mail servers up and running and making sure our mails get >through to all recipients. Why try to baby-sit grown adults? Gambia-L is >simply a medium that publishes the postings to offer readers a new glimpse >into the working of engaged political discource in the struggle for human >rights and democracy, and of coursce including many other interests. What >good then would it be if we turn this wonderful medium into some hereditary >nobility where it's either one way or the highway? > >Whatever happened to rehabitation as opposed to purnishment. Make people >aware of the repercussions of their actions and try to make the best of >heated situations. A bad action is best left undone. One is punished later >for a bad action. But a good deed is best done, for which one will not be >punished for doing it. Though some perspectives on crime and punishment >support the contemporary movement toward restorative justice in place of >retributive, the history of punishment is in some respects like the >history of war; it seems to accompany the human condition almost >universally, to enjoy periods of glorification, to be commonly regarded as >justified in many instances, and yet to run counter to our ultimate vision >of what human society should be. > >The question that comes to mind is :Why do we punish? Say the likes of >innocent people like Dumo et al as well as The Ansumana Kujabas et al? It >may seem an odd question, but only until we try to answer it. To punish is >to harm, and harming must be justified.Three types of justification are >usually offered: the harm of punishment is outweighed by some greater good >(for example, it deters others); punishment does not really harm offenders >(because it reforms them); and harming offenders is good in itself >(because retribution “annuls the crime“). However, each of these reasons >becomes problematical when examined. > >The first argument is a utilitarian one, and the usual objections against >utilitarianism are all the more pointed when the issue is justice. It >seems immoral to harm someone because we want to influence others’ >behavior; such a principle could also be used to justify scapegoating >innocents. This is not just an abstract refutation, for there is the >uncomfortable possibility that offenders today have become our scapegoats >for larger social problems. And from a practical point of view this >justification does not seem to be working. If punishment warns other would- >be offenders, why does the United States , which incarcerates a larger >percentage of its population than any other industrialized country, >continue to have the one of the very highest crime rates? > >The second argument, that punishment does not really harm the offender, >has some force, but is not usually true today. The Quakers may have >intended the penitentiary to be a place of penitence, but that meaning has >long been lost, and there is little doubt that incarceration makes most >offenders worse. As often happens, an institution that does not fulfill >its ORIGINAL PURPOSE (List Managers please note the emphasis)continues to >exist for other reasons—in this case because, to tell the truth, we do not >know what else to do with most offenders except remove them to places >where they will be unable to re-offend. > >The third argument, that harming offenders is good in itself, is more >complicated because it incorporates several types of justifications. >Historically the most common, and (although we do not like to admit it) >perhaps still prevalent, is the desire for vengeance. In many cases this >is understandable, but it is nevertheless morally unacceptable and socially >destructive, undoubtedly counter to our ultimate vision of what human >society should be. These reasons ladies and gentlemen for me to believe >that we need to re-evaluate our approach to punishing fellow comrades, even >our most hated enemies. > >I hate to be philosophical about all this, ladies and gentlemen but what >is paramount, I think, is that we try to be more open-minded and open the >lines of communication, making room for tolerance and sound judgement in >the process, as opposed to rushing to judgement. In short, treat eachother >as adults and NOT miniature adults. Let those who break these rules of >ethics offer their apologies rather than trying to castigate them into >oblivion, or solitary confinement. No one is perfect. Show me one who is >perfect and I'll show you what a pathological liar he or she is .The G_L >approach to punishment, like any other approach to punishment, cannot >really be separated from its understanding of human psychology (especially >motivation and intention); of the relationship between the individual and >society; and, last but not least, of its vision of human possibility, of >what a good life is or can be for some of these list members, if given the >(second, maybe third)chances they deserve. That is it . I done. > > Au Revoir, > George Sarr (Real Name) > Mr Makaveli ( Alias) > > > > >From: Ansumana Kujabi <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: On The Gambia-L Rules >To: [log in to unmask] >Date: Jun 21, 2001 > > >SAUL: > >Thanks 1000 times for your input. As always you have approached this >situation maturely. Frankly, the gang of two have STRETCHED THE ENVELOPE of >the GAM-L RULES. It all boiled down to EMOTIONS. Why monitor Kujabi, whiles >we have the KEBBA JOKES and ESSAS putting us through hell. I was kinda >surprised to see the people keep monitoring me intensely since FEBRUARY >2001; absolutely pathetic. This will NEVER EVER distract me from hitting my >points home. This is MY CITIZEN DUTY to give it all I have in the struggle >in fighting for the RESTORATION of DEMOCRACY and the RULE of LAW back home. >Our beautiful country, which had been FIRM FRIENDS with the International >Community is NOW ISOLATED as a result of the REBEL GOVERNMENT we have at >home. But the MORON'S DAYS are numbered. Therefore, as HISTORY always >teaches us great lessons, one should be REALLY VERY CAREFUL and PRUDENT in >the way you go about your life, otherwise, when that returns, a day when we >will all gather to account for our actions, we will have some in our midst >who will look the other way; or they might even regret their actions that >day. To that end, I think there should be a LEVELED PLAYING FIELD for every >contributor in this forum, period. God Bless. > >Ansumana > > > > >Gambians Online " Designed With The Gambian People In Mind" > http://www.gambiansonline.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >You may also send subscription requests to >[log in to unmask] >if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your >full name and e-mail address. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html You may also send subscription requests to [log in to unmask] if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write your full name and e-mail address. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------