Astrid Christensen

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>From: Joe Sambou <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:42:58 +0000 > >Greetings all, I wanted to abstain from contributing due to reasons >I >explained earlier, however, I cannot resist the urge to jump in this >debate >that I think serves to rip the fabric that bound us as Africans in >general >and Gambians in particular. What happens to our extended family >system? >Who among us has relatives/friends that are just Muslims? How many >people >among us were raised by relatives that do not share the same >religion with >us? This is what we know as Africans. Since when do we see each >other as >believers or non-believers? That I am a non-believer in someone's >eyes, so >what? That all non-believers will go to hell in someone's eyes, I >say, so >what? Who amongst us has gone anywhere to know what's on the other >side, >if there is even another side? Remember others can bring their >books and >preach infinitum just like its going on now with some of us. When >that >happens, we gain nothing but extenuate the superficial divisions we >create >in our minds. When it comes to matters of religion, folks should >take care >of their's and let others do the same, thus the separation between >Church/Mosque and State, because of the Holier Than Thou Syndrome >that can >poison our minds. A lot of what's talked about here has to deal >with >other's cultural values. I will be damned if I shall adopt someone >else's >cultural values over mine, especially when it can separate brothers >or >sisters apart. The same right you have to prop your belief system >as numero >uno, rests with myself and others too. To those who believe that >all >non-believers will sizzle many fold, I say to you, pray for your >ancestors, >for they were mainly "Tchedors". That is the beauty of The Gambia - >the >cross cultural and religious exchanges, Nanmburu, Yapi Haar, Watch >Night, >Gaamo, Talabone, Kitim, etc. Also, the reason why we have the "Kaal >System" >- to diffuse the tension and extenuate the positive among our >diverse >peoples. Be an extremist (whatever that means), but what we have >going for >us none can dismantle. Some of you sound as if the rest of humanity >is >begging to eat, befriend, or relate to you. Don't eat my food, >visit me, >speak to me, or what have you, because I am a non-believer, and see >if I >will loose sleep over that. To me your move will translate as less >headache >for me and more time to spend with the moderate and tolerant many. >Thank >God the rest of humaninity is moving on. What religion will look >donw on a >people that are among the most peace loving on this earth. Your >views about >coexistance will have an audience in the Middle East, but not in >Sub-Sahara >Africa. If Islam stands for tolerance, who are you to highlight >otherwise? > >With all the problems our nation is enduring, why on earth would >some of us >come here to bombard us with unnecessary talk about believers and >non-believers. While we sit here and sow the seed of discord, some >of your >friends and relatives are being fed, housed, and have life long >friendships >with those you term as believers and non-believers alike. So, go on >with >the preaching and see if the overwhelming majority of our peoples >give a >hoot how you view them. This is rediculous. > >Chi Jaama > >Joe Sambou > > >>From: koto Faal <[log in to unmask]> >>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >><[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny >>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:45:13 +0000 >> >>To all interested subscribers in this ongoing debate about >>disbelievers,people of the book, and the polytheist in the Sura Al >>bayinatu >>where references are made concerning the above mentioned groups, >>the Quran >>as we know it needs a very careful translation of both the text and >>commentaries, both can be misleading depending on the Individual >>researching >>and the source of the text.These groups in question has been talk >>about >>several times in different chapters in the Holy Quran but at all >>times for >>different reason.In this particular instances this sura was serve >>as an >>ultimatum to all non muslims and warning to them of the >>consequencies they >>faced in the hereafter but this doesn't go to the extend of >>attacking their >>moral behavior in society cause their are good people among them, >>they do >>good things for society but that is not what ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY >>wants from >>them,THE AHSHADA IS THE MAIN PROBLEM.One should really try and >>return to >>the >>beginning of all things (THE SOURCE) to really understand the >>problems of >>RELIGIOUS FAITHS. We have learned in the Hadith,THE HOLY PROPHET >>MUHAMMAD >>(Pbuh) saying to his followers that I am going to send you to >>ABBYSINNIA, >>present day Ethopia to a Christian King to apply for Assylum,He is >>a king >>that do no wrong to his people, he is a man of great justice, HE >>knew then >>morality was not an issue but Submission to ALLAH'S WILL,will >>always be the >>biggest pitfall along the way back to ALLAh's Eternal Bliss.The >>text of the >>above sura is not my word nor the word of any human being, our duty >>is to >>try and recites it or translate it atleast near it is written, this >>particular verse says "Inna lasinna kafaru min akhlil kitabi wal >>moushrikinna fe narre jahanam hali deena fe ha awla eka hum sharul >>bariyati" >>(meaning to you the disbelievers and the people WE gave books ie >>christians >>and jews and the polytheist are all going jahanam,which is the >>literal >>meaning but it goes beyond this,why several reason but the >>principal one is >>the AHSHADA,where you submit to ALLAH'S Will and Proclaim and >>comfirm that >>Muhammad is a Prophet and Messenger of ALLAH(SWT),they refute that >>which >>brought us to the precedent shaitan set long ago when he was asked >>to >>prostrate for Adam, If we know why he was detrone then we will not >>be >>having >>this conversation on line, but it is the same principles or >>Judgement that >>will be befall anyone who has the remoteness of chances without not >>taking >>this Oath, even the law of this earth ask for Oath e.g President of >>the >>United States, if you are not sworn in , you won't take Office and >>you >>think >>if you don't take with ALLAH (swt) you will take Office, everything >>you see >>here is a manifestation of ALLAH'S Kingdom.This subscribtion is in >>response >>to all those people whom needed clarification whether the people of >>the >>book >>are referred to in this particular sura especially modou camara >>whose >>response to sister jabo contribution. These people choosed not to >>believe >>the Prophet (Pbuh)and thus condemned themselves to Jahanam. I am >>very sorry >>if this offended anyone I am just trying to help with the text of >>the Holy >>Quran, I hope this contribution will help a long way to our >>enlightenment >>of >>the Quran and its commentaries. May ALLAH forgive me for any >>misleadings >>this contribution may cause.I am praying to ALLAH the ALMIGHTY to >>bestowed >>upon us all Wisdom and Guidance. Rabbana atayna fe dunya hasanatan >>wa fil >>ahkira hasanatan wakhina hasabana, subhana rabihesati amayasifun wa >>salamu >>alal murrsalin walhamdu lila AMEN. >>>From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]> >>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>><[log in to unmask]> >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Celebrating Holidays of the Disbelievers/Ginny >>>Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:38:25 +0100 >>> >>>On 7 Jan 2002, at 23:42, Jabou Joh wrote: >>> >>> > When people have forwarded anything that says non-muslims are >>>non >>>believers, it >>> > is not something that was coined deliberately to make anyone >>>feel bad. >>>It is the >>> > exact words that the Qur'an uses. >>> >>>Sister Jabou, >>>The Quran is referring to some people as "The people of the book" >>>(Jews) >>>and >>>"The Christians". Are these people also in the above category? >>> >>>I think the quran differentiates "Kafirun" from The People of the >>>book and >>>the >>>Christians. The God that Muslims believe is the same God that the >>>Jews and >>>christians believe in. >>> >>> >>>regards, >>>Momodou Camara >>> >>><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<> >>> >>>To view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface >>>at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>[log in to unmask] >>> >>><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >>http://www.hotmail.com >> >><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<> >> >>To view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface >>at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>[log in to unmask] >> >><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<> > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: >http://messenger.msn.com > ><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<> > >To view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface >at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >[log in to unmask] > ><>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>//\\<>