Brother Alpha No matter what I say or show you as proof , your mind is made up and i can't change it. People interprete some verses of the Quran to suit their own needs not the required religious prescriptions. I can understand if a woman is barren ( and it could be the man's fault at times too so this must be verified first) to marry another one to have children . That is Ok but just to have fun is just plain zeenah. It is an impossible improbability to realistically or humanly possibly to treat two women ( or more ) equally not to talk of loving them at the same time in my humble opinion . therefore I rest my case but I wish you good luck. habib
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>From: Alfa Jarju <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Polygammy is the BEST & The Right Sunnah >Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:44:51 +0000 > >Allah says," And among His Signs is this that He created for you WIVES >from among yourselves that you may dwell in tranquillity with them and He >has put love and mercy between your (hearts); verily in that are Signs for >those who reflect." Q30:21. > >"If you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans >marry women of your choice TWO or THREE or FOUR; but if ye fear that ye >shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one or (a captive) >that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable to prevent you >from doing injustice." Q4:3 > >Justice between wives means he should give them >equal rights and provide for them equally. > > It does not mean he should love >them equally, he the husband has no control over this. Even a father may >not love his children from a single woman equally, this is natural. Allah >says, > > "You are never able to be fair and just as between women even if it is your >ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether so as to leave >her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If you come to a friendly >understanding and practice self-restraint Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most >Merciful." Q4:129. . In fact, polygamy is another way of testing the level >of >tolerance of people > >The above statements depends on the different interpretation but many >Ulamas belief that it is a trial for man as human being cannot love two >things equally. If that is so as you claimed, why the same God allows us >to marry many wives and again expecting us to love them equally? Brother, >I am sure you can not find it in the Holy Quran. >which says that “if you can not love them equally, do not marry more than >one”. > >If only those who oppose polygamy could know the mental agony which women >who want to get married but could not for one reason or the other >experience, they will change their stand. The fact that it has not >happened to their sisters or close relatives does not mean that this >problem does not exist. > > > > >Quoting Habib Ghanim <[log in to unmask]>: > > > > > If you can not love and treat the two women equally then you should not > > marry another wife . Sahih Buhari and many other verses in the holy Quran > > clearly state this > > end of case > > > > > > > > >From: baboucarr Sey > > >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list > > >To: [log in to unmask] > > >Subject: Re: Polygammy is the BEST > > >Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:52:07 -0800 > > > > > >No no mr. Jarju I completely disagree with on this point. > > >Cheers > > >Mbye Sey > > > > > >Alfa Jarju wrote: > > >What majority of Muslims fail to understand concerning the issue of > > >Polygamy is the definition of EQUALITY IN LOVE. There is no where in > > the > > >Quran or Hadith which stated that those who are practicing should love > > the > > >said wives equally. It will be excellent if one can do that. The Love > > >comes from Allah and it is some thing natural. What is important here > > is > > >the distribution of wealth and application of fairness or justice among > > the > > >wives. One may argues that if you love wife A, there is likely that you > > >would give her preferential treatment. This is not the case, the > > element > > >of that portion is what Allah has given you as a trial. As a Muslim, > > your > > >number one duty is not no be carried away by once desire. > > > > > >If you look at the verse stating about marring, one may tend to believe > > >that God is asking us to marry more than one wife. For example, the > > actual > > >counting in the Quran starts not in one BUT two “ Marry two, or three, > > or > > >four” But if you think you would find it difficult to practice > > fairness, > > >marry just one. I know Baba Galleh Jallow would laugh at this statement > > >but it is fact. > > > > > >By looking at the above statement, one may tend to believe that Allah > > wants > > >us to marry more than one wife. Why? Because God is asking us if we > > cannot > > >practice fairness and one of the fundamental principles of Islam is > > >fairness. If God tells you, ok since you cannot practice fairness just > > >stop at one means if you cannot be a good Muslim, try and marry only > > one > > >because you cannot control your desire. > > > > > >The beauty of this verse is that, Allah knows that there would be a > > time > > >when the ratio of women would really out number men on this planet. > > > > > >Ndeye, if you see any nice lady in Ghana, pls call my attention. I want > > to > > >marry second wife. It is intersting to notice that "Alieus" are very > > much > > >concernd about this topic (laugh). > > > > > >Alh. Alieu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Quoting "Alieu S.K Cham" : > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to all of you for your interesting contributions on this very > > > > important issue. I'm Alieu Cham, a Gambian national living in Oslo. > > I > > > > agree with Alieu Jawara that polygamy is not synonymous with sexual > > > > infidelity. I wander who made this analogy between the two. It sounds > > to > > > > me like a Westerner assessing the norms, believes and practices of > > > > non-Western societies. The act of Marrying may be universal but the > > > > institution of marriage is contextual, or situated if you like. In > > other > > > > words, marriage has to be understood within the context in which it > > is > > > > contracted between two people. What it means being someones > > wife/husband > > > > is defined by the society in which the marriage takes place. My point > > is > > > > that anybody saying that polygamy is equal to sexual infidelity, in > > my > > > > view, lacks the basic understanding that the very notion of > > infidelity > > > > is problematic. This is so because fidelity/infidelity has to do > > with > > > > moral and, what constitutes good/bad moral is directly linked to > > > > society/community or religion. So I think this analogy is overly > > > > simplistic. > > > > Now to the issue at hand. I think Alieu Jawara supports polygamy > > > > primarily because it is " allowed by the holy Qur'an, the primary > > source > > > > of muslim belief". I have to say here that i am myself a believer in > > the > > > > Muslim faith. However i oppose polygamy as it is ACTUALLY being > > > > practised. Jawara argued that several of Allah's prophets "who are > > > > absolutely perfect creatures" have lived polygamous lives. This > > brings me > > > > to the core of my objection to polygamy as it is being practised. It > > > > might have been easy for those "absolutely perfect" men of God to > > live > > > > polygamous lives. However it doesn't follow from this that it should > > be > > > > easy for OSS, the ordinary and imperfect people. It is the case that > > to > > > > marry more than one wife, one has to be PERFECTLY fair, in the > > broadest > > > > term, between the wives. This is certainly not any challenge for an > > > > absolutely perfect person but what about the millions of people > > around > > > > the world who are practising polygamy - can they treat their wives > > > > equally, love them equally, care for them equally, listen to them > > > > equally......etc. I don't think so! I really don't think so! It > > cannot be > > > > helpful for any woman to be married to a man who brings her home only > > to > > > > make her secondary to the other wife(ves). I just want to give women > > the > > > > benefit of the doubt! I am anti-polygamy, if i may put it that way, > > > > simply because i cannot divide my love into several parts, let alone > > > > several EQUAL parts. My opinion on whether polygamy should be made > > > > unlawful or not is that it should not. That may not be necessary. > > Society > > > > has more urgent matters to attend to. My hope is that more and more > > women > > > > will become aware of the fact that they can say no to a man who is > > > > already married. Just as men do not have to marry more than one > > wife, > > > > women do NOT have to marry to anyone who is already married. > > > > With an increased awareness, i think polygamy with disappear without > > any > > > > intervention by law makers. For all of you out there who favour a ban > > (by > > > > law) on polygamy, i just want to say that the best way out for deep > > > > rooted practices such as polygamy, female circumcision etc is for > > the > > > > people themselves to be convinced that the practice may infact be > > > > problematic. This conviction will provoke a reflection on the matter > > - > > > > and i believe that a reflection on polygamy will show that it can, > > and > > > > infact, should be abandoned (not banned by law). The practice of > > polygamy > > > > can conveniently be abandoned. This won't necessary conflict with > > the > > > > qur'an. > > > > On the issue of prenuptial agreements, i hold the view that that is > > > > utterly ridiculous. If my lady has to have my signature on paper, get > > it > > > > verified by a lawyer, approved by the court etc to believe my words, > > then > > > > i wander where we get with the relationship. Certain things has to > > > > be agreed upon by matured people based solely on trust. This is > > > > particularly true when we talk about a couple just about to marry. > > The > > > > very concept of marriage rests firmly on mutual trust between the > > > > parties. Afterall what good can come out of a prenuptial agreement? > > What > > > > do you do in the case of a breach of contract? You divorce the > > person? - > > > > well it may be wiser to not marry that person in the first place. > > > > Alieu S.K Cham, Oslo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the door of a Moscow hotel room, it says; > > > > > > > > If this is your first time to Moscow, welcome to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Alieu Jawara > > > > >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list > > > > >To: [log in to unmask] > > > > >Subject: Polygammy... > > > > >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:40:43 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >May I throw my two cents to this very exiting topic. Some of you > > say > > > > women should start a movement to stop men taking advantage of them. > > This > > > > is a great idea but perhaps men can help even better. Without the > > > > involvement of educated and "powerful" men the progress will be > > quite > > > > slow indeed. God knows there are a lot of women suffering in > > silence. > > > > Can't leave x years of marriage because they have nothing to fall > > back on > > > > due to poverty. Who knows maybe this forum can even begin to set up > > > > something just for the sake of Allah. Women could be educated > > publicly > > > > and the same time warning men of their actions. Financially we could > > help > > > > by taking their case up to justice. > > > > > > > > > >One thing I don't agree with the forum with is the issue of > > prenuptial > > > > agreements, to sign that the marriage will forever be monogamous. > > Someone > > > > also said polygamy is synonymous with sexual infidelity (stand > > corrected > > > > incase of any misquotations). First, Islam gives a lot of power to > > women > > > > as the lady that traditionally brings up the future heads of society. > > She > > > > must always be treated kindly and respectfully. The wife batters > > wont > > > > find their actions supported by any parts of the Qur'an or sunnah. > > > > However, polygamy is the allowed by the Qur'an, the primary source > > of > > > > muslim belief. Allah's wisdom is much greater than ours and he knows > > why > > > > he made his law to be so. By making it haram (unlawful) onto yourself > > is > > > > taking Allah's merciful law into your own hands. Several of Allah's > > > > prophets (who are absolutely perfect creatures) have lived > > polygamous > > > > lives, including the final one Nabiy Mustapha Alaihi salaam. His > > > > companions, whom we should take as our role models, also did the > > same. > > > > Just to remind you briefly that our noble prophet (may on him be > > peace) > > > > lived his first 25 years as a chaste bachelor and the next 25 years > > in a > > > > monogamous marriage with a wife (widowed) 15 years his seniour. > > Apart > > > > from Aisha (daughter of his closest companion), the remainder of his > > > > marriages were to divorcées or widows. His marriages are vlearly out > > of > > > > compassion and not of passion. There are several reasons (which I > > wont > > > > talk about here) where it might be necessary to marry a second, third > > or > > > > fourth wife). I think it's quite wrong to deny yourself of halaal > > just > > > > because the love at the time of marriage is so high. The love for > > Allah > > > > and his laws should be much greater. Polygamy is definitely not > > > > synonymous to sexual infidelity where a husband sneaks out on a > > family > > > > that he should love and care for just to come back with bag of lies! > > > > Several verses come to mind but how about this one in conclusion: > > > > > > > > > >16:116 "And, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, > > > > (saying) This is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a > > lie > > > > against Allah; surely those who forge the lie against Allah shall > > not > > > > prosper" > > > > > > > > > >66:01 "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has > > made > > > > lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is > > Forgiving, > > > > Merciful" > > > > > > > > > >I advise you read the commentary of the above and read up on the > > sunnah > > > > regarding polygamy. > > > > > > > > > >Salaam, > > > > > > > > > >Alieu Jawara > > > > > > > > > >P.S. Can I ask the directors to change my email address to > > > > [log in to unmask] These very exciting articles having interrupting > > my > > > > work. I can't help reading them when they pop up on the screen. By > > moving > > > > it to my free mail, I can choose to read them at lunch or at the end > > of > > > > the day. 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