There is an interesting article in the recent New Yorker that talks about Professor An-Na'im and another Sudanese thinker, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha. I just finished reading--but maybe not entirely digesting--that article. I'm not aware that it is available online, but well worth seeking out the magazine. Jane *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* Jane Zainab Warner-Tholley University of Washington Seattle, Washington 98195 *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, abdoukarim sanneh wrote: > What an informative piece.Sofie thanks for sharing with us. > > "Ceesay, Soffie" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: A Forward - > Saudi Lifestyle Contradicts Islam - Prof. An-Na'im > > Daily Trust (Abuja) > INTERVIEW > September 13, 2006 > > By Uthman Abubakar > > Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, who hails from Sudan, is currently a Professor > of Law at Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A. He was, at various > times, Associate Professor of Law (Head of Department of Public Law), > University of Khartoum, Sudan; visiting Professor of Law, Harvard Law > School, Cambridge, U.S.A; Scholar-In-Residence e, the Ford Foundation, > Office for the Middle East and North Africa, Cairo, Egypt; and Executive > Director, Human Rights Watch/Africa, Washington DC, U.S.A, among others. > He was in Nigeria recently to deliver a lecture on African > Constitutionalism and the Role of Islam in Politics and the Society at a > seminar organized by Centre for Democracy and Development. He answered > some questions from Uthman Abubakar after the seminar. > A prevailing belief among most observers of Nigerian affairs is that the > problem of the implementation of some of the vital aspects of the > country's constitution borders on corruption, especially the > monetization of the voting process during elections. What do you think > is the way out of this? > If I have malaria, at the beginning, I know the symptoms. I have fever, > I have this, and I have that and so on and so forth. So, I will go and > have a diagnosis from a doctor. I will then have a prescription, which I > will apply. Then, overtime, I get treated. The point is this. The > Nigerian experience with regard to corruption is not unique. There are > many societies with corruption against which they have their own > separate strategies. The problem with corruption is that it infects the > people with whom you have to work. It is very insidious, very secretive > and very difficult to detect. > The United States, which is now seen as the topmost superpower, had a > very serious problem with corruption in the 1920s and the 1930s. For > example, mafia organized crimes bribed judges, juries and mayors. The > former mayor of Atlanta was convicted recently on corruption charges, > accepting bribes and evading taxes. The tax charge was proved by the > prosecution, and he is going to prison. So, anywhere - Japan, China, > Russia or anywhere, as we speak there are corrupt officials; as we > speak, there are people who are trying to subvert the democratic > process; but also as we speak, there are people who are struggling to > create institutions to fight corruption, and they succeed. It is > relative. Italy has the problem; Latin America has it, and every other > country. > Most of these countries have been able to implement their constitutions > with varying degrees of success, in spite of the prevailing corruption, > but Nigeria does not seem to have been successful in that regard... > Those countries were successful overtime, although no country sits back > and waits for anything to happen. It took the United States three to > four decades to tackle organized crimes, bribing officials and other > forms of corruption, but they did not sit back and wait for it to > happen. What I am saying is that with regard to fighting corruption, we > should not be impatient, but we should not be complacent. I say it to > every single Nigerian, and to me as an African, that we know what is > wrong, we know how to correct it, but we lack the will to act. Nigeria > is one of the most prominent African societies, a highly educated and > sophisticated society. Nigerians know and Nigerians have the capacity to > do it, but they lack the will to do it. This is where my point is > focusing. Let us acknowledge that it is our failure of will, not our > lack of ability to implement our constitution to eradicate corruption, > to eradicate poverty. > Zamfara state adopted the Islamic legal system, Sharia. It was attacked > for, among many others, implementing a religious constitution within a > broader Nigerian society which operates a secular constitution. How do > you see a nation operating two conflicting constitutional systems and > prospering? > I will recall what Sayyidina Aliy Ibn Abi Talib said. As a Muslim, I am > bound by Sharia, and I can never escape my responsibility for my > obligation under Sharia. But Sharia can not be enforced by the state, > because the state's institution of bureaucracy, in fact, leads to > corruption of Sharia itself. I believe that the realm of Sharia is in > the community and in the individual Muslim's conscience and practice. We > know that there is no religious action which is valid without Niyyah > (intention), the intention to comply. State institutions cannot have > Niyyah because it is a person, it is not an entity. It is an > institution. > The second point is that, whether we like it or not, the reality is that > there are many differences among Muslims as well as between Muslims and > non-Muslims. If we talk of Nigeria as a country where 50 percent are > Muslims and 50 percent are Christians, even if there is a country with > only two or three percent who are Christians or who are pagans, still > you will have the problem of uniformity in the applicability of > different laws. The country belongs to all of them, whereas my belief as > a Muslim, my obligation to implement and to observe Sharia is my > religious obligation. > So, my point is that we should not use state institutions to claim that > we are imposing religious obligations. This is false. And I think the > point is that as a Muslim, and someone who is a Christian in any state > in Northern Nigeria or in the east or south can promote our religious > values. The fact that we can observe our religious obligations as a > matter of Sharia is beyond questioning. That is already accepted and > granted. For example, if the state permits Ribah (usury) does not mean > that I as a Muslim can engage in Ribah. I observe my religious > obligation by not engaging in Ribah. I establish an authentic banking > system, that is a private institution in which I can use resources to > create wealth and so on. So, we can do this without the state enforcing > it. If the state tries to enforce it, it is bound to create a very > strong backlash. > In Nigeria, and I say this very bluntly, if Muslims insist, and it is > not all Muslims, it is some Muslims who are trying to impose their own > understanding of Sharia on everyone else at the expense of the unity and > stability of the country. We have had six years of Sharia in the 12 > Northern states now. Let us honestly look and see what difference that > initiative made. The problem with initiatives like Zamfara state which > is trying to impose the Sharia code is clear. It is a lie by the way. I > don't believe that you can impose the Sharia code. Once you enact a > statute like the penal code, it is no longer a Sharia principle. It > becomes a political will of the state, not the religious law of Muslims. > > As a Muslim I have a choice among competing opinions of scholars. We > know that the Fuqaha' have tremendous disagreements and respective > difference of opinions. Throughout Muslim history, people have had a > choice. I can go to a Maliki judge or a Hanafi judge according to my > view of what is a valid view. But when the state imposes a particular > view of a Maliki doctrine as a matter of state will, it is denying > Muslims freedom of choice. So, my point is that Muslims can promote > religious values in the communities; they can even have them adopted as > a state policy, but through a process of consensus building with the > idea of what I call public reason. > That means we have to give room for certain compromises. Even among the > various sects of Muslims themselves and between the Muslims and the > non-Muslims, when it comes to consensus building on how to run the > affairs of the state according to individual inclinations, there will be > compromises. Some Muslims, even among themselves, may not accept that. > Muslims and non-Muslims may also not agree on that. Each will insist on > having his way, no room for compromises ... > Then you will have civil war. The point is that, do you realize the full > consequences? Any Muslim, who says 'I will not compromise,' should go > and live somewhere else on his own. But if you want to live in the same > place with other people, you have to compromise. The point is that the > person who says I will not compromise, I will say to him, imagine how > you will feel if the other person says the same thing. That is if a > Christian wants to impose Christian values on the state, would you > accept? If not, why would you expect a Christian to accept you imposing > your own values on him? So, compromise is a vital social need. We cannot > live in the society without compromise. We cannot live even in a single > family without it. Husband and wife have to compromise to live together. > A child and its parents have to compromise to live together. If Muslims > say we will not compromise, they should know that what they are saying > is that we will go to civil war, because the other side will not accept > your imposing it on them. > A major topic of debate and misunderstanding in the implementation of > Sharia is Hudud (corporal punishments) . How do you see the chopping off > of the hand of the Muslim convict for stealing? > The Hudud (corporal punishments) are not a vital principle. It is in > fact a very human interpretation. There are 55 members of the > International Conference of Islamic countries. Muslims constitute about > 1.3 billion people of the world population. That is, one fifth of the > total population of the world is Muslims. Where among all these Muslims > is the Hudud being implemented? How are they being implemented even when > they are claimed to be implemented? My point is that the Hudud issue is > really a lie and a way of distracting people from the real issues. In > Saudi Arabia, in Iran, in Nigeria, in Sudan the Hudud are not > implemented. They are not implemented against the powerful; they are not > implemented against corruption. > People should look around them and see, how did the Hudud apply in the > Northern states which claim to have imposed Hudud since 2000? How many > people with influence or power have been brought to account? How can you > cut the hand of a thief who steals N20 or N100 and allow someone who > steals billions of naira to get away with it? If you look at Islamic > history, it is not true that Hudud have been a vital part of Sharia > throughout the history. The definition of every Hadd is a human > interpretation. The idea that you can impose the Hadd punishment by some > sort of state power is also a very corrupting influence. I believe that > from the Sharia point of view, if we are to implement Hudud at all, it > should be the last thing we do. > We should, first, build social justice, education, enable people to know > what their obligations are, and then come to Hudud at a very later > stage. What we see, and I say it very bluntly, in all the 12 states of > Northern Nigeria, the Hudud was the first thing to do, and remains in > the books to intimidate and also to create this aura that we are an > Islamic state. But the corruption continues unabated. There is > underdevelopment, poverty and lack of services. What is Sharia's view on > corruption? What is Sharia's view on lack of education or lack of health > facilities? I charge that the people who claim that they are > implementing Sharia are saying what they are not doing. Sharia is total. > Why is Sharia only on Hudud, and even the Hudud, only against the weak > and the marginal? > How then can you assess the success or failure of Sharia in these > states? > Sharia does not succeed or fail, because it is not an entity. It is > people who succeed or fail. I say that Muslims who claim to implement > Sharia in Northern Nigeria have failed. It is not that Sharia has > failed. It is those people who claim to implement Sharia that have > failed in its implementation. My point is that it is always human > beings; it is never Sharia that is the problem. > Do you subscribe to the idea that the failure of the implementation of > Sharia is substantially attributable to some mischief by advanced > countries to ensure that no Islamic endeavour succeeds because it is > "terrorism"? > If you want to have a Nigeria united, you cannot have a law that > discriminates against non Muslims. We know that the current > understanding of Sharia does, in fact, discriminate against non Muslims. > Sharia, as in the Qur'an and Sunnah, is the ultimate obligation of > Muslims, but every other interpretation of it is only human. I say to > the governor of Zamfara, how does he justify choosing among the Sharia > principles those which are within the jurisdiction of the state to apply > Sharia in, and those which are outside the jurisdiction? If he has an > obligation to apply Sharia, then it is total. He cannot say that this is > state jurisdiction and this is federal jurisdiction. When he says this > is state and this is federal, he is accepting the federal constitution > principle. If you want to apply Sharia it should be total. > Why is Sharia in Hudud and not in Ribah? How does any state of the North > accept income from the federal budget which is not consistent with > Sharia? These are the contradictions. So, my point is that this claim is > false, and Nigeria will not stand united if Muslims refuse to compromise > and, instead, say that we will insist on our way. On the question of > foreign powers wanting anything Islamic to fail, let us make a > distinction between what they wish and what we do. The fact is this is a > wish, why should it be our action? Malik Bin Nabil, the North African > Islamic Scholar, said colonialism is a consequence, not a cause. That > is, it is colonialism that created our decline; it is our decline that > invited colonialism. > Our failure to be strong, to be honest, to be united, to be productive > and to be competent was the problem. It is the decline of Islamic > civilizations that allowed the European powers to come into our regions. > So, my point is that let us stop making excuses. What do Britain, France > or the United States have to do with the way Muslims behave as rulers in > Zamfara state, or Kano or any state. So, if you insist on no compromise, > you can go your own way, declare independence and establish a perfect > Islamic state. If you want to be part of Nigeria, you have to accept > what it means to be part of Nigeria. > You also posited in your recent lecture that there is nothing like the > Islamic Ummah (community). You described the Ummah as a fallacy. Are you > saying that nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran and others which claim to be > Islamic states are not Islamic Ummahs? > No! They are not. In fact Saudi Arabia is one of the least Islamic > countries in the world. The behaviour of the Saudis, their life styles, > their attitudes, their arrogance, completely undermines the claim that > they are an Islamic state. It is a hereditary monarchy. The king of > Saudi Arabia is there by virtue of being of the Al Saud family, not by > virtue of being a pious Muslim or a learned Muslim or an honest > administrator. It is a corrupt monarchy. You see, when we say that the > West wants to undermine us, it is because we do the things that enable > them undermine us. Our economies, our education, our defense, our > foreign policy, all of these things have totally collapsed. The idea of > Ummah is a rhetorical idea. We use it in rhetoric. We will say, let us > have solidarity, but when it comes to the real test, we do not stand by > solidarity. > The current colonization of Iraq by the United States and Britain could > not have happened or continued for a single day without the complete > cooperation, connivance and support of Islamic and Arab countries > surrounding Iraq. Without the cooperation of Kuwait, without the > cooperation of Saudi Arabia, without the cooperation of Qatar, it could > not have happened. Qatar is the largest American base in the Middle > East, much more than Israel. So, how do we behave like this and still > claim that there is what we call the Islamic Ummah which brings us all > united in solidarity? It is a lie. I am not saying it is not possible. I > am saying that it is not true now. > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤