Haruna, What the heck do you know about Obama's south side of Chicago's background or history, I have lived in Chicago for almost 14 years now and can tell you that your facts "assumptions" are freaking ridiculous, you are just another pondant, indeed a tribble one if i may note. I met and had a conversation with the man, he is a gentleman and an honourable one infact. I have been a member of he Gambia-L for a long time now, i have read great stories and views from different contributors but you are just a freaking "bull-shitter" who seems to have views on every topic. -----Original Message----- From: Ousman Ceesay <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 5:47 pm Subject: Re: John Edwards/ Haruna Haruna wrote: "When you delve deeper into Obama's activities in South Chicago, you will come o the realisation that there are other communities in Chicago that were own-trodden for one reason or the other. But Obama chose these other own-trodden people of South Chicago. Edwards running as senator in North arolina fought for the down-trodden in other areas of North Carolina, South arolina, Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Massachussetts, Alabama, and alifornia." The comparison here is kinda moot. Obama graduated from Harvard and chose to rganize a community blighted by factory closings.Were there other communities n similar situations? You bet. You still have them all over this country today. owever comparing the efforts of a recent college graduate (Obama) with that of candidate(Edwards) running for state wide office is a stretch. For starters he former is just scrapping by while the latter has the resources of a campaign o amplified his message. Edwards maybe the son of mill workers, but he hasn't organize those communities hen the mills closed down. Instead he lawyered on and made millions in the rocess. I am not mad at him for going for the benjamins.However, in comparison o Obama, he is johnny come lately when it comes to advocating for the poor. He has a populist message, but some of his approach to solving poverty issues re elitist. Take for instance the poverty center he sponsored at University of orth Carolina to bring policy experts to study how to get people out of overty.This kind of policy studies has been going on in almost all elite niversities in the country albeit under different names. A community organizer ike Obama with that kind of mullah will go with practical solutions rather than unding centers to produce some more policy papers. There is a gloat of policy apers rotting in institutions all over this country. The problem is lack of unds for implementation. Alright, I have riled you up enough for the night. I will sit back and elax...waiting for the cult of Edwards to kick in...incoming.... aruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Haruna," Jabou. es Darling, how are you. I like the way you speak and what you say always. ou have an immensely powerful voice fertilized, as our friend Karim is wont o drammatize, by prolific study, acumen, and measured tone. Any candidate ould like to have your support. I'm not giving up on Ousman either. I love him very much. Just don't get any funny ideas Ousman. I do not know that what Edwards can represent to the American people is ot the same as what Obama will." Jabou. was under the same impressions too. Then I began a study of senators who ater run for President in a revolutionarily different way that reviews arginal values. There is a wealth of information that when properly reviewed r eviewed in the directions of questions one might have when making marginal istinction assessments, you will come away with a benign but discerning onclusion. If you review the matters/bills that Clinton, Obama, and Edwards ave ffered votes on in the senate, (not the ones Obama and Clinton conveniently bsented themselves on for expediency sakes), you can draw important emographic information from their affect on Americans, both in quantity and uality hat has brought me to the conclusion that Edwards is a more valuable change to more Americans than either Obama or Clinton. I had also come to the onclusion that Obama will be a more valuable change to immigrant Americans han ither Edwards or Clinton, and that Clinton is the hungriest of them all to ecome President. Take a look at how many bills Obama and Clinton absented hemselves from voting on and find out what those bills are. Then look at the ills ll three voted on and you will notice that Edwards never absented himself rom voting on critical and significant matters as well as those matters that re politically inexpedient to vote on. A solid human.Let us know how your eview looks like. Also, I do not think that there is any indication that Obama beileves in eligion as other than a moral compass." Jabou. robably not and I did not qualify Obama's belief in that realm. I shared dwards' belief in the realm. bama had recognized the value of religious congregations and the almost omplete patronage of evangelists by Republicans. Given his political ndustriousness, he embarked on a campaign to wrest a slice of this section of ociety rom Republicans and rightly so. I happen to believe that you neither court or discount the religious evangelist vote. You allow them to choose without iving the facade of their participation as a group in governance and dministration of the state. An active campaign to woo them trends too closely o uid-pro-quo and if you do not deliver their perceived quid, they can severely align your administration. Only a seasoned governor and policy-maker can ecognize these subtle flaws in character. Because as you know, the evangelists are active voters and they vote in order to skew public policy in favour of heir religion. They do not hide their intentions and motives. It takes a trong character to resist the temptation to maligned judgement. When you ask bama, he frames his responses this way: We have to show America that Democrats too care about religion". That tatement itself says a lot about his dispensation. Jabou, I know that you are a devout muslim. Have you ever felt like you have to show me and Suntou and alanding how much you care about Islam? If you begin to run for President, and you then embark on an active campaign to show us how much you care about Islam, whether that is good or not, would it not give me pause in distinctions? Our friend Ousman shared that Obama fought for the downtrodden in the south side f Chicago. I will share more on this later but that southside vote was what ained Obama the state seat against an incumbent democrat, also African merican. When you delve deeper into Obama's activities in South Chicago, you ill come to the realisation that there are other communities in Chicago that ere down-trodden for one reason or the other. But Obama chose these other own-trodden people of South Chicago. Edwards running as senator in North arolina fought for the down-trodden in other areas of North Carolina, South arolina, Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Massachussetts, Alabama, and alifornia. peak with Jimmy Carter and ask him to share his views on Obama and Edwards. He will tell you he loves both of them but that Edwards is more valuable to all merica than Obama. It is not because Edwards is white and more Americans re white that is why we say this. It is because of the quality of his values nd since African Americans are disproportionately disenfranchised in all tates, they received the value of Edwards' efforts more than Whites. Edwards oes not apologise for that. When the question arose in one of the debates bout bama being black and Clinton being a woman, John Edwards responded, and in ublic, that whoever does not vote for Obama because he is black, or Clinton ecause she is a woman, he, John Edwards does NOT want your vote. Now the ntrained eye will view this as political suicide and indeed it costed Edwards ome white support because they began labelling him as an angry candidate. Of ourse they cannot make a distinction between anger and passion and half of hose idiots belong in an insane asylum anyways, we just don't have a omprehensive mental health intitution in the US that is why some of these etards ind their way on talk shows and radio programs and TV interviews. Obama has a een eye on the Presidency, has had even before the "grassroots downtrodden dvocacy" in SOuth Shitown. As for being beholden to corporate America, well, all American presidents re somewhat beholden to corporate America, and the difference is perhaps just matter of degrees." Jabou. et us say you are right in the immediate above. You are therefore admitting hat corporate America does command inordinate and a formidable power to oerce American Presidents. The same will therefore be true of Evangelic merica. Now Edwards actually challenged the powers of corporate America in the court of law and won overwhelmingly. He therefore helped stem the cancer in orporate America and enhanced the good in it for the prosperity of America. In his campaign speeches when he ran with Kerry and now, he has always served otice that he is immune to corporate control, no matter how formidable that may be. And another thing. I think your recognition that both Edwards and Obama ill represent refreshing change in the American Presidency gives you hope that the two will be different from past American Presidents. We all therefore ake solace in the idea of an Edwards or Obama Presidency. You will however gree with me that in America, Just being President does not innoculate the rdinary American from the relentl;ess onslaught of Pharmaceutical and other orporate interests. We must therefore go further than just the Presidency if t s the refreshing change we are really interested in. It has come to light hat most of Obama's advisors are leftover Clinton advisors. You may remmember hen one of those advisors disrespectfully tried to malign the former resident Bill Clinton. And Obama shared with us that the former Clinton dvisor was speaking of his past relations with Bill Clinton and therefore he, Obama is ot privy to that and cannot say anything on it. And the former Clinton dvisor is now an Obama advisor. Discernments. I also would like our brother nd riend Ousman to share with us one tangible value accrued from Obama's campaign for down-trodden votes in south SHitown". It is evident that the nited teel workers of America, The united Mine Workers of the same nation, The arpenters Union, and many more see more value in John Edwards than Obama, linton, or other. Is there a national union of the un-employed of South hicago? We ay be presented with mirages of "grassroots campaign for votes" and grassroots conscientious advocacy". Having said that, Obama has spoken out against the insurance companies who re at the top of the food chain when it comes to corporate America because hey own just about everything." Jabou. xactly my point Jabou. First, you should never speak against any corporate r individual interest because they own just about everything. That is the rong impetus. Now John Edwards did not stop at speaking out against rogue orporate policies, he challenged them in courts on the behalf of Americans and overcame their enormous powers. He is only a lawyer as was Obama. Has Obama iled suit against any rogue corporate policy on the behalf of the common merican? Those insurance companies he "spoke out against", has he challenged hem n a court of law on the merits or demerits of his disdain of them? Obama as head of the Harvard Law Review. If Obama finds himself in a situation where vote-counting can yield a loss of his election to a Republican candidate, hat do you think will happen? What do you think Obama will do? You are right, I like both Edwards and Obama, and I think that Edwards is a reat candidate, but I do not think that he will win the primaries." Jabou. think you are looking at the polls of those who view Edwards as an angry andidate. Look deeper and follow the citizens of Iowa, New Hampshire, South arolina, and Nevada. We are talking about primaries aren't we???? Check round your neck of the woods around Cleveland Tennessee, Chattanooga, emphis, ashville, Jackson, Milan, etcetera. Let us know what you find out. He is good but America sees him as having been part of the old stablishment even if only because he ran before." Jabou. know you're just being sarcastic here. Who among all candidates, epublican or Democratic, has not been part of the old Establishment. Don't be wayed y cliches of these lunatics who fell through the administrative cracks for ack of enough space at rehab. I think Obama on the other hand stands a very good chance of winning the rimaries and Americans are angry enough at the republicans so that none of heir candidates stands a chance in the national elections, no matter who they re." Jabou. ndeed Jabou. I agree with you. Obama does stand a very good chance of inning at least one of the primaries if not all. As far as the anger of mericans t Republicans, I presume you share that all the democratic candidates stand qual chances when pitted against a Republican. We can all cherish that but et us focus for now on the voting democrats for the democratic primaries. hat we are trying to discern is "EDwards, Obama, or Clinton, who represents the most valuable and desirable change for Democratic Americans". After the rimaries, we will change our effort by removing the word democratic from our uery. So a wonderful and winning strategy for Democrats this time would be an bama/Edwards ticket." Jabou. hat wouldn't be a bad ticket either. If that ends up being the ticket it ould be formidable. It will be more formidable against the Republicans in all f America if it turns out to be Edwards-Biden, Edwards-Clinton, dwards-Obama, or Edwards-Gore. What do you think???? Together, they can restore the hopes of the people and make great headway owards reversing the damage that the last 8 years of a Bush Administration as done" Jabou. nything is a refreshing change from the last 8 years of cluelessness. Thanks for providing the link to Ousman's blog, I had not known of it efore. As for Andrew Young Ousman, he dances to the music of corporate America and so he has to pay the piper so no surprises there. He has now made a career f leading the pillagers and plunderers into Africa. Dr King is no doubt urning in his grave." Jabou. his is not fair. I have contributed in forming a comprehensive alliance gainst my person and Edwards' person. This is not fair Jabou and Ousman. The wo of you simply are too overwhelming even if I summon the entire essence of my very being. Please have mercy on me from here on in or pledge not to gang up against me and Edwards. "Jabou" hat Friggin-ever. You mean Jabou and Ousman, don't you?? Whew. New ambians!! aruna. ----Original Message----- rom: Haruna Darbo o: [log in to unmask] ent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:26 pm ubject: Re: John Edwards/ Haruna Jabou, you know you are beautiful. I can never get upset at you. I think you like both John Edwards and Obama, but that you like Obama more ecause his election will represent much needed change. Would you consider that the election of John Edwards will also represent hange? The work therefore is in discerning between John Edwards and Obama, who is he more desirable change!!! Now, like you about John Edwards, I like Obama a lot because I think he is rilliant, popular, and his election will give hope to a lot of Immigrant mericans. John Edwards not only represents hope for more Americans than Obama, he has hown the value of the change that he may accrue us. I have not had the pportunity to witness a sampling of Obama's change except that he looks ifferent rom past presidents. John Edwards' One America Foundation offers some hope. ohn Edwards' rebuilding efforts in the Lower Ninth ward offer hope in what merica can be. ohn Edwards fought with Huge corporate outfits on the behalf of regular nd ommon Americans, and John Edwards and Obama are both lawyers. enator John Edwards of North carolina will get dirty for you and with you. orth Carolina used to be the home of Senator Jesse Helms. ohn Edwards enjoys enormous peer support and the most endorsements from emocratic governors of states than either Obama or Clinton. ohn Edwards is more electable across the United states than any candidate urrently seeking the presidency, Republican or Democrat. Check the stats. ibby Edwards is beautiful and is not beholden to corporate America. Mrs. bama is beautiful but may be beholden to corporate America. She sits on the oard of Walmart. ohn Edwards is handsome and is not given to religious distinctions nor oes e believe religion ought to be mixed with governance. John Edwards elieves n Religion as moral and ethical compass, not administrative compass. Obama is good. John Edwards is more valuable to all America. Edwards-Obama ay be formidable. What do you think my dear? Lemme know, Lemme know!! You now usman is an Obama-head!!! Don't you?? Your friend and colleague Haruna. In a message dated 12/13/2007 8:40:01 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Haruna, I both like and have a great deal of respect for John Edwards and his wife lizabeth for many reasons, some of which are mentioned below. However, I m n Obama supporter myself. I also think Obama has a better chance of eing lected because among other things, he is seen as the "change" candidate y country that desperately needs change and Hillary ain't it. Infact, I hink Hillary has turned into a "snake oil sales lady" and she is verything to everyone in her zeal to be president and I do not trust her at all and the est of the country is beginning to see through her. I think that Edwards' est shot will be as a V.P for Obama. I think together they would make an wesome eam. ow, now, don't get too upset. abou ----Original Message----- rom: Haruna Darbo o: [log in to unmask] ent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 6:49 pm ubject: I wish to share John Edwards with you: e just concluded another conference call with David Medina, the national ampaign director for John Edwards. We are excited about the prospects for a John Edwards Presidency. We are leased to have the support of Harry Belafonte and Danny Glover in South arolina. Our gratitude to the United Steel workers Union, The Mine Workers nion, he Carpenters Union, and Friends of the Earth Action Network. I am proud f ohn Edwards' performance in the just concluded democratic candidate debate sponsored by the Des Moines Register. John Edwards is humble, intelligent, nd tands up for the Common American even on unpopular issues. He has vision nd haracter, attributes that are extremely valuable to American foreign olicy nd stature in the world. We would like volunteers to assist in South Carolina, Iowa, Nevada, and ew Hampshire. We also wish to ask for your financial support if your time will ot allow volunteering. Please visit us at _http://www.johnedwards.com_ http://www.johnedwards.com) and thank you for your support and company oward ne-America. 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