|
May be Jdam should explain to you that you misunderstood the
question from the beginning.] Suntou.
No. We want you to explain YOUR question to us. If anyone
misunderstands YOUR question, the onus is on you to clarify. I
suggested you consult with JDAM to assist you ask YOUR question more
appropriately.
[the point i made here is clear.] Suntou.
Is it? I heard you challenging intellectual powerhouse to test their
ideas for governance of Gambia here at Ellen. You made an example out of
Dr. Saine for aspiring to a political career and therefore should
test his ideologies HERE. You then went on to get upset because the
intellectual powerhouse seems silent. You anticipated no response from
them however even as you urge them to share their ideas with you. You also
asked why people sympathise with a particular party when to YOU, they have
not shared their ideologies for governance with you. Might you not ask
them directly what those ideologies are in order that you may make a
decision one way or the other whether to hit the pavement for them? Are
you sure you are not already looking at those ideologies but missing the
message for the trees of evangelism? What this has to do with democracy
behooves me but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. You went on to say
the western governments' democracies are based on stronger fabrics and
that Gambian governments lack that fabric. And who is responsible for that
fabric you asked rhetorically. Then you answered that their intellectual
powerhouses are. You presume then that the governors are not from the same
social fabric they govern. You made your case for bad governance for
Jawara and Yahya. Then you wondered whether PDOIS would be a softer
facscimile of APRC.
[to yahya he is democratic, why?] Suntou.
And to Suntou, he is democratic, why?
[people willing vote for him. that is major pillar of democracy.]
Suntou.
Some people will be willing to vote for Suntou for President. Does
that mean Suntou is democratic? I think I understand where your problem is
Suntou. I want to share with you that you are equating the mechanics
of voting with democracy. You have severely missed the whole notion
of democracy. You don't seem to know that the democracy happens prior to
the act of voting. If you purchased those votes by coercion, intimidation,
and or purchase, that is not democracy. They will have voted for you
alright.
[but the argument which i am sure people here are clear about is
that, we need clear cut parties with real ideas and messages that can win
voters for genuine reasons.] Suntou.
How do you know what I need Suntou? Have you ever seen a clear cut
party? How would you recognise one when it is presented to you on a
diamond platter? An idea or message cannot become real until it is put
into action Suntou. That may be where your angst lies. You haven't seen
UDP, NRP, PDOIS, NDAM, etc. put their ideas into action yet so you presume
these are not clear cut parties with real ideas and messages that can win
voters. Genuine reasons is a tautology here and conceals criminal intent.
Because you will then want to tell the people their reasons for
associating with the unclear-cut parties is NOT GENUINE. You see where you
veer off-track Suntou don't you? Now you know why the initial question you
wanted to ask is buried in evangelism.
[yes, democracy can grow with the educational process, yet, are we
any close to seeing a party in the Gambia that can put a serious challenge
to Yahya?] Suntou.
Having a party that can mount a serious challenge to Yahya DOES NOT
DEMOCRACY YIELD Suntou. Please read about democracy again. I think
you're missing it big time.
[i doubt it.] Suntou.
Me too. What does that have to do with the governance ideas of the
challenging parties?
[what is the message of the UDP? i don't know.] Suntou.
Have you ever thought of asking the UDP what their message is?
[why should voters choose party A and not party B?]
Suntou.
That is the purview of the voter. It is personal choice enshrined in
the democratic ideal: Freedon of expression and association for
industry, politics, and religion. If I were to choose APRC because I think
Yahya is a prophet and APRC my religion, what would Suntou think of that?
Do you now see what I'm sharing with you Suntou?
[are we really sure whether the PDOIS is not going to be softer brand
of the APRC?] Suntou.
What does that have to do with Democracy? And what is a "softer brand
of the APRC might I ask? A softer criminal syndicate?
[what about the NRP, what is the difference between Hamat's
message and that of PPP?] Suntou.
Do you know what Hamat message is? Did you know what PPP's message
was? Are you telling us that having analysed those messages prior, you
really do not see any difference between them? Might you then look to UDP,
PDOIS, APRC and choose the message that you like? You are really trending
toward foolhardy Suntou. Foolhardy here means a waste of your precious
time. It doesn't mean you are a fool before you decide to get mad at me
for no GENUINE reason.
[this are my questions.] Suntou.
And who are you asking YOUR questions? Suntou, you must admit these
questions are highly personal and borderline transcendental. It seems to
me you have years of research and soul-searching to do. That is why I was
afraid your Dawah will suffer. You get it now?
[we are not close to seeing an idea call democracy in play in our
country. that is a fact.] Suntou.
I agree with you Suntou. But does that mean you give up fighting for
democracy? Might I console you that if Suntou and Haruna are democratic,
by mere Osmosis, Dr. Saine, Galleh, Kukeh, JDAM, Hamat, Ousainou, Sam
Sarr, Yahya, etcetera, might become democratic and before you know it, we
will come closer to seeing the idea of democracy in play in our country.
We then have to look for referres to call the game.
[we have some aspect of democracy.] Suntou.
How about we build on those without brow-beating the intellectual
powerhouse, the agrarian power-house, the natural resource powerhouse, the
orphan powerhouse, the religious powerhouse, the political powerhouses,
etcetera?
[indeed during Jawara's time, there was no level playing Field
and also in Yahya's reign now, the playing field is even more
imbalance.
It seems you and I have a lot of work ahead of us
Suntou. May I ask you to keep the Dawah thingy on the back burner for now
then? You understand without democracy, Dawah's fortunes are
ever-elusive!!!! Bantangbilly. Ginny don't even think about it. Ask
Suntou.
Masoud. MQJGDT. Darbo. Al Mu'Umin. Suntou, I'm serious
you're too funny.
From:
Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fw: Political
thoughts
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, 8
September, 2008, 3:05 AM
[In a message dated 9/6/2008 11:02:32 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
|
Yahya is criticised and people want him due to his bad human
rights records.] Suntou.
That is Suntou's case out of Yahya's governance.
[Jawara and his fellows where engaged in the cruddiest acts
of corruptions and financial misappropriations.] Suntou.
That was Suntou's case out of Sir Dawda and his fellows'
governance.
[why is it that governance seems to be our worst problem?]
Suntou.
A governor governs. The governor comes from the people he/she
governs. Suntou has identified the cases against the first two
governors of Gambia.
[yes, the developed societies are implementing democracy, but
there democracy is base on strong fabrics.] Suntou.
All governance is based on the fabric of the governed
society. The strength of such fabrics is the purview of the
society. All such societies are of uniquely strong fabrics. You
cannot compare the strength of fabrics of unique societies.
[this cannot happen without the entire involvement of the
intellectual power base and a proper debate about our best way
forward.] Suntou.
The fabric of a society includes its intellectual power base,
its ignorant power base, its diseased power base, its agricultural
power base, its industrial power base, its spiritual power base,
its natural resource power base. All of the power bases. The
intellectual power base cannot govern in a vacuum. Perhaps this is
where shortcomings are in perspectives Suntou.
[this is not about suntou and his evangelism. it is a
question i am asking, if any one as answers then bring it in.]
Suntou.
You have a funny way of asking questions Suntou.
That goes to your evangelic acumen.
Later. Masoud. MQJGDT. Darbo. Al Mutawakkil.
JDAM gives lessons as to how to ask questions appropriately. Check
with him.
From:
Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fw:
Political thoughts
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:
Saturday, 6 September, 2008, 5:05 PM
[In a message dated 9/6/2008 1:57:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
|
Haruna, it is my believe that our nation has reached
a stage where mere criticism of a system is not enough.
now brothers need to articulate what sort of politics they
would best want in our nation.] Suntou.
Suntou, I think Allah has ready-made you for
evangelism. I want to share with you that our nation has
not reached the stage you surmise. For starters, the
nation does not tolerate nor does it value mere criticism.
The culture itself regards criticism as rudeness and
conceit. Yahya is the alter-ego of that culture. How many
times have you heard your fellow citizen
disappeared or was assasinated for mere criticism or
due-diligence??? Does Deyda Hydara, Koro Ceesay, CHief
Ebrima Manneh, Kanyibaa Kanyi ring a bell??? What world
are you living in? The Religion that you propagate, is
what the criminals use for ally. Might you use that
religion to restore sanity in the criminals????
[every one can critise, it is a matter of looking at
the shorting coming of some one or government and a make a
case out of it.] Suntou.
Do you not think a case has already been made out of
it?? And making a case comprises critique of the highest
order.
[but what is the alternative,] SUntou.
I don't know. But I comfort you that when there is
freedom of speech, expression, association for industry,
politics, and worship, I couldn't care less what the
alternative is. If Yahya is trained on these basic
principles, there will have been no need for an
alternative. You will see people like Haruna support,
assist, and encourage him to the hilt and discourage his
detractors.
[this is where our brothers with the political brains
seem dormant.] Suntou.
No Suntou. You are confusing circumspect
for dormancy.
[we see the British having a battle line between the
liberals and the consecutive,] Suntou.
But the liberals and conservatives of Britain are
both trained on DEMOCRACY.
[and the U.S is divided between the Republicans and
the Democrats.] Suntou.
But the Democratic and Republican parties of the US
are both trained on DEMOCRACY.
[what is it that we have that make people to
align themselves with a certain political party?]
Suntou.
This should not be your worry, concern, or query my
friend Suntou. This is because it fulfils the cardinal
principle of Freedom of Association for Industry,
politics, and or religion. You should cherish this
opportunity or you will not look good as a gagged
evangelist. The rights of those people to alignment, is
the same right you have as to religion and
associations. I do not ask you nor worry about why
you choose to align yourself with Islam do I? Well you
should not ask me why I would align myself with
APRC even if my only reason is that Yahya is crazy,
or with PDOIS even if my only reason is that Sam Sarr
looks handsome to me, or NRP even if my only reason is
that Hon. Hamat is tall, eloquent, and handsome, or UDP
even if my only reason is that Ousainou is
smart, handsome, and diligent. The right of such
association, when qualified, becomes criminal.
[ i see it just has blind following. nothing to
say this is why i support so and so party.] Suntou.
This is what I'm trying to share with you. If you
want to figure out why any individual supports a
particular party, religion, or is engaged in a particular
industry, your evangelism will suffer an onerous death for
lack of spare time. There are as many reasons as there may
be individuals exercising that right.
[PDOIS may be. is the glue-less kind of politics we
will be having?] Suntou.
Suntou. You need to sit back and reflect a bit. Your
anxieties are severely misplaced. Consider that if the
majority of Gambians wish to have PDOIS as their governing
party, that inevitably PDOIS then will have been better
for Gambia than APRC. Similarly, if the majority of
Gambians desire APRC, UDP, NRP, or NDAM to be their
governing party, they will have been better for Gambia
than the incumbent. The harbinger is for you and your
fellow to realize that freedom of association for
politics, industry, and or religion.
[why then do we Want Yahya out if all
the alternative parties can do is only
criticise without having any serious ideology as to why
people should support their cause.] Suntou.
Suntou, maybe you have been sleeping for the last 14
years. We want Yahya out because he infringes on the
rights of the citizens. It is not because of his
ideologies. If you, Suntou, were President of Gambia and
you trample on citizen rights because of your Islamic
ideologies, We would want you out too. And it will not
have been because of your Islam. It will have been
because of your crimes.
[think about it.] Suntou.
No You think about it. I generally like
you but you confuse me all the time.
[what ideology was the PPP base on?] Suntou.
I couldn't care less.
[what about PDOIS,] Suntou.
I couldn't care less either.
[i here it is socialism, is this true? what about
UDP?] Suntou.
I couldn't care less. It is crimes within the
ideologies that I intend to ferret out.
[people must have reasons to want to spend their time
canvassing for our politicians.] Suntou.
Indeed. And they do. Where someone is not spending
his or her time canvassing for any politician, it is
because he/she has not identified a good enough reason for
canvass and circumstance.
[not just emotions.] Suntou.
I think by emotions you mean chatter and garrulous
gaucherie.
[this is where our learned brothers should
intervene.] Suntou.
WHy? Why the learned brothers? Why are you wanting
someoneelse to do your work for you? What about the
learned sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters,
uncles, nephews, nieces, grandfolk, etc.?
[i read the interview of Dr Abdoulie Saine, unless i
misunderstood his comments, but it seems to me the guys
has political ambitions, if truly he does, why not test
his ideas here?] Suntou.
I got news for you Suntou. A person who is
contemplating a political career would not test his
ideas here. The best place to do that is on the ground
with the people he/she intends to be political with. Not
here at Ellen or Posten for that matter. And I share with
you that there is no harm in harbouring political
ambition. SO Dr. Saine is well within his rights and
privileges to aspire to a political career. The man is a
matriculated political scientist afterall. It is when his
ambition leads him to commit crimes that I get involved.
Until then, I encourage Dr. Saine in his future
endeavours. Why would you focus on Dr. Saine anyway? Is he
the only Gambian with political ambitions? Why would you
be interested in him testing his political ideas here?
Suntou, I hate to say it but you are engaged in foolhardy
right about now.
[recently, Alagie Yero wrote a good analysis of past
African leaders political philosophies, i like that, it
explain what was going through their minds http://www.allgambian.net/NewsDetails.aspx?id=558.
but now, in a more advance age, we don't seems to have any
idealist out there. every one is talking about human
rights and free press, yes this is good but it is not
all.] Suntou.
Again, Human RIghts and Freedom of the Press are
bedrocks of DEMOCRACY and civilisations. The trick is to
identify the human and the press.
[the real issue is leadership and what the leader
believes in.] Suntou.
NOOooooooooo!
[this will help in shaping the country and her
people.] Suntou.
You're kiddin me!!!!
Suntou, I think you're a very funny man. Well you
take us on this grand tour of mental gymnastics and
contortions only to tell us you didn't really have a
reason for the tour. Just passing time. Men. If you were
not my friggin uncle, I'd issue a fatwa against your
behind.
Masoud. Your bestest pal. Now that I
think about it Kukeh, this augmented posts idea might be a
baaaaad one! these and those extremeties as my friend
Brutus is wont to quip as he drugged himself into a
tizzy!! for stabby!! Men. Even I am tired
now.
From:
Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:
Re: Fw: Political thoughts
To:
[log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 5
September, 2008, 6:20 PM
Suntou,
What is a capitalist democrat? Democrat does not
need any qualifier. In the arena of investment and
industry, I believe in securing capital honestly and
making the capital work for you honestly. Purchase
labour in the open market and harness it toward some
productive activity. I believe in philanthropy and
charity. I believe in the rights of the physically and
mentally challenged. Religion is a luxury for me but I
find relaxation and exaltation in't. I don't know
neither do I believe in a class system. I honour an
orderly productive chain. There you have it. My
comprehensive life philosophies.
Haruna. Leave Galleh and Kukeh alone. They're hatin
on Charlie for the book deals and TV appearances. I just
hope the man will come on GDP-TV. MQJGDT. Al
whatever.
In a message dated 9/5/2008 1:02:20 P.M. Eastern
Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
|
So Dr jaiteh believes in the 'patron'
mentality? i wonder what the capitalist democrat
al-mutawakil darboe, haruna would say to class
system. i wonder. men like Baba Galleh with good
working knowledge in politics have high social
significant, that is positively amean. but the
Gambian communist council would like us to have
a classless society, thus, i wrongly assume that
Malanding is a social-democrat. what is your
political ideologies? brothers like myself wish
to keep our political philosophies private, but
in the presence, we still hide our
respective political stance, what is the
need of the presence?
I challenge you elders, Baba Galleh, Alagi
Yero, Mathew, Haruna, LJ Darboe, Malanding,
Uncle Joe, sister jabou, i mean the lot of you
to bravely grace us your presence. what
political ideologies do you subscribe to? even
our Obama mania doesn't go without his political
believes. what is yours? brothers with
leadership qualities and potential are not
willing to openly debate their ideas, here, i
mean the G-L has all calibre of brothers and
sisters, if u can be bold and test your ideas,
friend you can test it anywhere. well, i am
not expecting any answers as usual, just
rambling. sorry, it is Ramadan. --- On
Tue, 25/9/07, Malanding Jaiteh
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote: From:
Malanding Jaiteh
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
recommend a book
To:
[log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, 25
September, 2007, 1:09 PM
Suntu,
I am no student of politics but my few years on this earth have thought
me that, "even in the land of monkeys there is a pecking order".
While all these theories and stories about equality or classless society
are no doubt great academic exercise, I wonder how much of it is being REAL?
Malanding
Suntou Touray wrote:
>even more on fraser the man .E FRANKLIN FRASER TACKLE THE elite
>mentality .all over the history of man ,the elite has been the stunbling
block of
>true progress ,they aim to subjugate the peasant and the under dogs. in our
>case ,we still have them and we will continue to have this snobery human
>beings .they start from down below ,but when they climb the social
>ladder ,hell break loose .
>if you want to be an elite ,be a good one .look where you started from
,don't
>trade any human being for your progress ,it may reflect on your offsprings
>haha .http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2002/08-30/scholars.htm
>
>いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
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