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USA
572 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 10:34:14    
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Mr. Suntou, I know you are Obsess with PDOIS. You have always yearn for a debate on PDOIS but you have not been able to earn one yet.
This is simply because instead of being genuinely discussing about the position on the issues, you keep jumping from one ban waggen to another. At times you are seen criticising PDOIS so you can win the support of their enemies, other times you are seen rejoicing from their demise and sometimes you appear to be neutral.
There must be something you are digging for and you might just find it some day.
You want to really engage in policy and strategic discussions of PDOIS then you must be prepared to state the facts and portray their true image.
I will as a first step attempt to engage you so you can be a little more educated about PDOIS without having to guess their
positions. I am speaking as an independent citizen who subscribes to the ideology of PDOIS and not speaking for them.
I actually like some of the issues you raised in your blog but, I must tell you that they are misguided and folds in the same category ordinary Gambians who don't understand PDOIS principles resort to time and again.
Let's let one point at a time. The idea that the folks at PDOIS do not drink or eat other peoples' food or socialize with them is absolute false. I learned about PDOIS folks just about the same time you learned about them. I have seen them drink water in local Bantabas and socialized with the local people. Now it depends on what you mean by socialize. Float with your host's women??
The principles behind them not accepting stuff from the people particulary the villagers is that public officials are supposed to be the SERVANT of the people and not EXPLOIT them. Could you imagine folks in the provences
killing a bull or a ship and cook a bag of rice over night for politicians when actually they themselves hardly get any meat to eat? Can you see how exploitive it is for public officials like Sir Dawda accumulating a herds of cattle from villagers who cannot even pay for their kids' school fees? How selfish is that?
So PDOIS folks try to send a message that they are not there to exploit the folks but only wants the folks to listen and be educated on their civic rights. Is there anything wrong with that? Do you want them to continue the same politics of exploitation?
Second, it is absolutely untrue that PDOIS don't have new folks joining or working for their party. If you say the key leadership including spokemen and Presidential candidates did not change, I will agree, but it is false to say that there are no new folks.
You see people join PDOIS not base on aspiration for power or wealth, but simply base on principles and
sacrifice. There are hundreds of well educated members of PDOIS who never want to be on the spot light. They would rather work in the background and let the led the core people lead.
If you ever visited Gambia again, please visit their center in Churchill town or attend one of their meetings and see how professional and diverse their group is. Also try to visit Halifa's reseach center..
PDOIS are out not to change the personalities in politics but to completely overhaul the political system in the Gambia. They are engage in educating generations and they may never come to power but the generations they are educating will one day rise to the challenge. This is their goal - educate - educate - educate and let the people make their decision.
Third, you and many others here make big deal on Halifa losing his seat. You know what Halifa is much more effective outside of Parliament than being among a bunch of rubber stamps where you cannot
accomplish anything. His presentations from the Pam African Parliament largely was wasted because members of the house never understood the goal and his mission.
So tell me, where would you like Halifa to be? in a house that rubber stamps everything, or do you want him doing civic education work in educating the general public?
Uncle Suntou, it is easy to wine and dime but, one need to understand the principles behind a party before one jumps on conclusions.
One final point, what happens to parties like UDP or NRP and NDAM who certainly socialize - eat, drink and sleep with the local folks? Are they getting anywhere? No. The key to political awareness and independence is education and education. Without that you can do anything and it won't pay a dime. So here you have a doze of PDOIS. Now what say you??? |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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2369 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 18:22:23
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dbaldeh, very interesting points. I made it clear on my blog that, i am not looking for a debate between myself and pdois. my point is basically a political awareness point of view. you wrongly perceieve that i don't know much about the party, i do sir. i have listen to their cassetttes, read their pamplets etc. i am in close contact with some of their senoir folks.
i am not alone in saying that they do not mingle with provinces folks. now you may know for sure i am against immoral politicking. i am not by the way a UDP or NRP supporter. so i have clearly stated that those parties don't have a unique selling point. unless i am unaware of their philosophies. i would be grateful if some one can put it across here.
as for my critism of pdois, this is base on sound reasons. there is no institution that is wholly perfect and
pdois is no execption, so we shouldn't assume that they are. i strongly support and encourage their message of education, civic or otherwise. but do not discount the querries of critics as merely misunderstanding the party, that may be a bit arrogant on your side brother demba. i am basing my analysis of what i feel may be a disadvantage to pdois, this can be defended by the insiders, but remember, from critics, wise folks gain strenght. i wish halifa all the best. local folks know the boundaries between wasteful entertaining and sharing their food due to oneness and kindness. i adhore wastefulness and partying politicians. we shouldn't under estimate them.
this are some of the comments made on my blog on the topic. thanks demba, always looking forward to your comments.
Suntou, let me first commend you for a great analysis of PDOIS. Like you, I was exposed to PDIOS after the 1987 election when I stumbled on one of their papers. Although they
did not win me right away, they caught my attention which lead to reading about them more.
I agree fully that PDOIS’s failure to connect with the villagers/average Gambian is a great part of their struggle to "sway the masses". I have no doubt that absent the villagers, most of whom are illiterates; PDOIS will do well within the literate population. Their failure as you called it “they don't drink from others home, neither do they eat from villagers”, added with the fact that they are never visible during funerals, naming ceremonies, and other functions were interpreted as a lack of people skills “Hadamaya” per Mandinaka saying. Former president Jawara’s success was based on his ability to connect with the people and the simply fact that he mingled with them personally and when he can’t he made sure that he was represented WELL.
On what you called “close hierarchy”, this is an African problem. With the absent of a few nations
like South Africa, we have the same players on the political scene to this date. I am confident that an indebt study of the reasons the old guards hang on to power too long and how to make them let go might solve some of the problems the continent is faced with. Term limits is definitely not in our book, something all African countries should look into.
The killer for PPP was their failure to look into the future and groom young political minded Gambians to join them. The end result is the mess we are in right now.
Finally, beyond charisma and eloquence, I have no doubt that PDOIS is the party that can help us out of the mess we are in right now, but they have to dig deeper and find ways to connect with the people. This might mean brining in young and new faces to help them accomplish this goal. PDOIS have the right mind set and something tell me that they will one day be the party to BEAT, but only if they start now.
17 September 2008
14:26
SUNTOU TOURAY said...
You are spot on!!. PDOIS weren't interacting more. if they had done that things would be different for them today. i remember listening to my grandmother saying "who are this people who don't mingle" they juSt talk and move on. this was a miscalculation.EVEN THE LIKES OF OBAMA USE PEOPLE SKILL. Gambians are good at harbouring sentiments. as you said, Ex-president jawara's people's skill paid off. he over and again won people over. your analysis of the over staying leaders is also factual. students of politics need to dwell into this mentality and rationally highligt this short-coming in our politics. thanks for that educative comment.
18 September 2008 04:43
Anonymous said...
I have been a staunch supporter of PDOIS over many years, but I have to frankly say that I am losing hope in the party. I still like their political philosophy, and personal character, but their rigid and archaic
method of political campaign and fundraising particularly is beginning to worry me a lot.
I think the emergence of new leaders could help a lot in transforming PDOIS into a populist party that will stand a chance at wrestling power from the APRC, or at least be a serious contender on the Gambian political scene.
kay.
19 September 2008 00:41
Anonymous said...
SZMr. Suntou, I know you are upcess with PDOIS. You have always yearn for a serious debate on PDOIS but you have not been able to earn one yet.
This is simply because instead of being professional about the position on the issues, you keep jumping from one ban waggen to another. At times you are seen criticising PDOIS so you win the support of their enemies, other times you are seen rejoicing from their demise and sometimes you appear to be neutral.
There must be something you are digging for and you might just find it some day.
You want to
really engage in policy and strategic discussions of PDOIS them you must be prepared to remain professional and on the issues.
See you on the forum...
20 September 2008 00:52
SUNTOU TOURAY said...
Thank you for your comment. I am not only looking to engage PDOIS supporters or high officials, i am aspiring to make Gambians think about the political options. many PDOIS strong supporters percieve me as a critic who don't know much about the party, to them anyone who question the party's mode of operation is either confuse or lacking conprehension. some times i criticise the party for good reasons, but i have never align myself with any other political party in the Gambia. this is becus i wish to know the philosophies behind the relevant parties, i am not easily moved by emotion and rethoric. so for me, PDOIS has a good platform, an agenda and a good message, but what bothers me is their socail operations. i know sedia won two
elections in wulli, i was present at some of his gatherings, he targeted the youths and he indoctrinated them with a good message, they later mobilise other youths, thus his support base. but still there are overwhelming number of older folks who don't understand the parties message. this are areas i question. i believe strongly in maintaining traditional values, and also remembering the importance of our elders. Other parties like the UDP don't seem to have a clear message. yes, all the parties are calling for good governabce and democracy, the proper implimentaion of the rule of law, but this are a general message that any party can give, but what is unique about them is missing.
as for APRC, i don't even want to know about them. this party is base on the cult of yahya, period.
I am not interested in people responding to what i wrote, i want us to think about them. i am lossing the apitite for combative debating, it doesn't resolve anything. but
if we can think about issues, may be one day, our hearts will met. i respect the pdois founders, but it is time they put inplace a clear patern for succession. Halifa is geting old and sedia and Sam are alreayd old. look at the the ANC, they have a platform that executives can be removed smoothly. who is the likely replacement for Halifa? who? i beleive in open discussion on leadership matters, we have some folks with leadership abitions hiding behind intellectual prowess, but this is old fashion. let them come out and tell us what they want, we can debate them now and analyse their suitability. you can also see some pdois supporters having doubts about the leaders. they need to make their hard work stand the test of time.
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power only respect power. there is a time to be hot and a time to be cool .(malcolm x )
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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United Kingdom
469 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 18:27:33
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Satanfara, I was eagerly going to read your article but as soon as I got into your blog, the first phrase I came across just put me off. It reads; 'The major force' in reference to pdois's position in Gambian politics. I think that is where you screwed everything up as no reasonable political commentator would describe a party that has never cross a 3% threshold in any general election in its entire history as 'a major force'. It is just factually inconceivable and deceitful. I think the use of that phrase is a very poor start and poor judgment on your part. You need to take a prompt action to set the record straight in order to allow a healthy debate based on facts, and not distortion or deciet. And don't get me wrong, I am not accusing you of any thing. I like to believe that this is an inadvertent mistake but given the
deceitful impression it connotes, I think anyone who cares about facts and the truth would undoubtedly agree with me that your chosen phrase is not the best to describe a marginal party of PDOIS'S calibre.
Please advice me whenever this correction is made. It would certainly give me an appetite to read your article in full.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose damn union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 20 Sep 2008 18:35:05 |
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USA1444 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 23:38:59
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I am increasingly becoming to be convinced that PDOIS needs to dramatically adapt its structure, campaign style, fundraising strategy, as well as membership drive.
PDOIS appears to be chronically constrained by its poor finances, and detached campaign style. The party needs to put up a populist status with vigorous strategies to market the name and positions of the party on important issues facing the nation within the context of the cultures of the electorate.
There should be a difference betweem involving people and exploiting them. I do not see anything wrong with local people (supporters) contributing and donating to the party's cause; I do not also see anything wrong with a local supporter hosting the campaign and even slaughtering a bull or something for the party guests on the campaign if they wish to. This little
things, while they should not be solicited, matter a lot to the Gambian people. It has a lot of cultural significance to them. It is a way that can boost their self esteem and solidify people's commitment to the party. Even American politicians stay in the homes of some of their strong suporters, not to expoit them but to show them recognition and appreciation for their support to the cause. People needs to be committed to the cause, and one way to do that is to allow them participate in any way they can.
My uncle used to host one of the PPP ministers during the First Republic. He would kill an animal in his honor; cook a huge meal and lots people stop by to eat; talk, and informally socialize with one another and with the minister. These informal gatherings helped solidified their understanding and commitment to the party and the minister. It boosted their self esteem and made them feel part of a larger cause. My uncle did not have anything, but he
and his family felt a lot of pride for the recognition. That minister never lost an election (fair or not) in that constituency.
I am not saying that PDOIS should follow that same foot steps, and I not alos saying that they should engage in the disgusting lies and empty rhetorics of APRC's Yankuba Touray, but perhaps some exciting ways to mobilize people and raise funds should be looked into.
Let me agree with Santafara that PDOIS is the major force in Gambian politics. This contention is not measured by PDOIS' share of the electoral votes, but instead by the impact of PDOIS' ideology on the Gambian people, especially the educated class. Most Gambians will always tell you that 'they like PDOIS' ideas, their intellectuality, and that they think PDOIS is the only party that could seriously transform the Gambia'. The sad thing, however, this favorable perception of PDOIS has not been able to be transformed into actual votes. It is
dis-heartening that even parties like UDP, NRP, and others that have no clear alternative economic or political ideological position from either the PPP or the APRC [/b] continuously fetch more votes than PDOIS. Principles are principles, and I admire PDOIS' principled stand on many issues, but principles must not stand in the way to the prize. PDOIS must not just talk to the electorate as if lecturing college students (see I can be convinced that way) but many Gambian's votes must be obtained in more simpler means. Visit them in their homes, let them particpate in their own way in private and in public,get their commitment, motivate them to stay active in the party, put some excitement in the campaign, for example...
I have attempted to join a group that can raise funds for the party, but it is mired in a gridlock I guess because of 'principles' again.
While I may not have much money to give to PDOIS, I hope that my concerns, whether they
are right or wrong prompts the party to re-examine its methods and strategies with regards to campaign and fund raising.
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kay |
Edited by - kayjatta on 21 Sep 2008 07:20:35 |
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United Kingdom498 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 01:46:54
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| I too have studied the PDOIS approach to propaganda on the Gambian political scene and what I discerned is a very very detached mode on their part. Like Kayjatta is seemingly ; pointing out , getting at people to make them feel that they belong to the party is different from exploiting them. It is a new approach that they exploit like for instance not having a host for their meetings ,they just walk to any village bantaba and set up their camp for their rallies. Nice and straight forward ,clean moves but in my unconsidered judgment, not winning them much support as evidenced from their dismal performance in elections as evidenced from all those that they participated in ;but for a few gains. I do believe that they are a force to reckon with but perhaps they need to revisit their campaign procedures to gain more support.They
certainly cannot be ignored in the political field, they are force to reckon with ;thats for sure ,a fact. |
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USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 03:36:37
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Being a long time admirer of PDOIS principles of governing and political philosophy I agree to a degree that they need to find other means of winning elections.
I however don't necessarily put the entire blame on PDOIS as currently the longest existing political party in the Gambia. I think there is a lot of blame game that can be thrown around.
Political parties like PDOIS which does not have few rich folks to finance them can only do so much in a corrupt political system. Those of us debating here and who assumably understands what it takes for a party to win votes only airs our opinions and don't put our hands where our mouths are. How many of us support our political parties financially? How many of us convince our families and relatives to vote for a certain political party?
As a matter of fact we are
as much a failure as our current political parties. All we do is rant and look for loop holes to blame the other folks. Many of us think change can just come like that without putting our resources into the very change we yearn for.
PDOIS actually did a lot by compromising their principles and looked for other ways to join other parties to bring change. That move was as a result of recognizing that going it alone is never going to solve our problems.
We are back again to the same discussion of unity. Regardless of what any other party does in the Gambia, without new strategies of combining their political power no one can achieve anything that we want in the Gambia. We should work hard to convince our politicians to put their egos behind and rally for a fruitful cause.
This arguement of X and Y having political power over the other is outright bogus. All that trash is a losing course and we should move away from it.
The
most important thing is that each of these parties and their individual personalities brings something different and unique to the table. Until we wake up and look beyond individual party politics, we will always take a full circle and back to square one.
Political change is a collective responsibility of all citizens. |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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2369 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 08:32:22
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Nyari, i characterise pdois as a major force simplyon grounds of experience and idealogy. you may disagree. Kay, you have hihlighted all the relevant issues of pdois short-comings. as for demba, our democracy is still growing and taking different shapes. yes, donations can go a long way, but don't you see parties in other countries with millions yet they still lose elections? i doubt it very much that pdois has relax their principles. when we talk about the approach to villagers and other town folks, we are concern that,our parents may need more convincing from the active members passing the party's message rather us far away. we shouldn't at all under estimate the reasoning abilities of ordinary gambians. what kay commented on are very insighful.
pdois can set-up a program of introducing the party to gambians with an
ordinary simple message, what an ordinary villager can understand without elaborated explantion. they should go along with some fan-fare. the likes of mandela that many like quoting dance on stage. this is what being in-tune with one's culture means. you can have principles, money, and whatever, but if you are too aloof, people will never mind you and your goodness. yes, blaming and finger pointing is easy, but it may be the begining of something new. hey i don't dance, but if dancing will lead people to support my message and we will get ourselves rid-off yahya, trust me i will dance to any tune. let the folks at pdois dance and sing along and then send home their message. not every body is as intellecually astute as you demba, some people need a bit of fun to understand serious message. about the disunity, the blame is on all sides. let them all start talking. demba, you want lead task force calling on Gambians to sign pettition calling for oppsoition
unity, when the people speak, the leaders will follow. we should start from a clean sheet. you are an editor, so the platform is already in your domain. but one thing, be patient with folks like us, if not, many who thought the pdois supporters are uncompromising will be vindicated. i remember my brother ML Touray branding me with harsh comments, but that goes with questioning. |
power only respect power. there is a time to be hot and a time to be cool .(malcolm x )
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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