Indeed Bailo. I understand the US State Department's condemnation of
general European attitudes when it comes to religions other than Christianity. I
also understand the sentiment of the Swiss population vis-a-vis minarets.
Perhaps the difference between the two of us Bailo is that I do not have a
favourite religion while you choose to do battle for Islam. I understand
your perspective. It would be nice if we can do battle for our religions
without aversion to other's fundamental human rights. The adage goes: two wrongs
do not ever make a right if your pursuit is right.
Thank you for pointing out the position of both sides on the minarets
issue. If I were interested enough in Swiss law and jurisprudence, I would
investigate the Swiss law banning minarets. It is one less matter to clog up my
already busy schedule. Besides Swiss Muslims could change that law were
they interested enough in it.
Take care my friend. Don't let other's idiocy transmogrify you.
Haruna.
In a message dated 3/14/2010 4:45:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
LJD,
Thanks. I know you cool.
Haruna, cool it too. Btw, the ban against the building of minarets by the
Swiss constitutes a discrimination against Swiss Moslems says the US State
Department in their 2010 Human Rights Report. However majority of the
Swiss considers the ban as desirable.
Just pointing out.
Bailo
--- On Sun, 14/3/10, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 14 March, 2010, 18:27
Bailo
We cool.
As one of our on-line Editors' is wont to quip, "no hard feelings".
You intended no offence. I took none.
Let us work against the "secret torture chambers" that are clearly a part
of our national conversation, albeit the gratuitously violent aspect of
that conversation.
LJDarbo
--- On Thu, 11/3/10, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thursday, 11 March, 2010, 2:12
LJD,
I regret misrepresenting your position on how our polity should interface
with its homosexual community as that of your position on homosexuality.
Upon further review of your contributions, I now concede that as Mboge,
Haruna and yourself pointed out, your comments were confined to the kind of
relationship that the State should have with it homosexual constituents.
As I pointed out from the outset, my views on the issue of homosexuality
are guided by my faith, Islam. Indeed, I also believe that faith is a
matter of personal relationship between a person and his God or gods. My
position on homosexuality does not mean that I consider someone who favours the
legalisation of homosexuality as a disbeliever or that I regard homosexuals
as lesser humans than hetrosexuals. As far as a person’s relationship with
God is concerned, I am of the view that only The All-knowing God could
judge the level of each person’s level of faith. If I had therefore given the
impression earlier that you were a disbeliever, please be assured that
such a thought did not occur to me. Your concern that I might have been
inclined towards such a view could therefore only be explained by my
shortcomings as a communicator.
Best wishes
Bailo
--- On Mon, 8/3/10, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, 8 March, 2010, 20:02
Bailo
Again, thanks for your thoughts on homosexuality in the context of Gambian
public life.
Now that we are in apparent agreement about the universal existence of
homosexuality, my remaining interest is limited to how our polity should
interface with its homosexual community.
On this question, I remain of the conviction that it is indefensible to
arrange our public space so as to unlawfully discriminate against any
section of Gambian society on irrelevant considerations such as religion,
sexuality, and ethnicity.
This notwithstanding, I maintain that on homosexuality per se, I shared
neither a personal "position", nor "perspective". On this, Mboge, and ATT Jr
read me as intended. I respect your own interpretation, but for me,
homosexuality is significant only in the context of public law.
About religious buildings on State House grounds, there are different
Christian denominations in The Gambia. Under the Muslim umbrella, the
Ahmadiyya question lies in the background, uncomfortably exciting the faculties
'mainstream' Muslims. I am unsure we have enough space on State House
grounds for all these denominations. And even if we do, the flash-point lies in
religious doctrine.
In the event Harunasilo attracts a thousand adherents, and insists on a
structure alongside the Professor's mosque, an Ahmadiyya mosque, a Catholic
church, a Methodist church, what are we suppose to do about ATT's demand?
Denying him redress may constitute a formula for trouble. Outside its
police power of maintaining stability between conflicting persuasions, I reject
any state involvement in religious matters. Religion is properly a
private matter.
About England, and Saudi Arabia, I am unsure they represent compelling
cases against secularism. The Church of England, of which the Monarch is
head, grew out of a political dispute between Henry VIII, and Rome, the then
centre of global Christianity. Whether it was a deliberately engineered
conflict to break away from mighty Rome, the fact remains that the immediate
catalyst for the separation was the refusal of Rome to bless Henry VIII's
endless forays into 'holy matrimony'. In any case, the Church of England is
constitutionally recognised as the established Church of the realm.
Constitutionally!
As the global centre of Islam, Saudi Arabia is differently situated. It is
an 'Islamic nation'. Here again, that condition is legally enshrined!
In The Gambia, the law says we are a secular Republic, and equally
protected by law.
Finally, I reassure you that under different circumstances, Bailo, and
LJD, could spend the whole day discussing the beauties, and practical
benefits of Islam. I completed reading the Quran before going to high school in
1974, and never a day went by that I did not say my 5 prayers. I still read
the Quran daily. Except for reason of illness in 2005, I fasted every
single Ramadan since 1973, and God willing, I intend to do so for the rest of
my life. But for the concern that you may be inching to to the view that I
am a non-believer, I would not have written the instant paragraph. On the
positive side, I hope you now understand the context of my assertion that
with God on my side, there is no realistic danger of my conversion to
Harunasilo,
I am a practising Muslim, but my religion, essentially a private
relationship with the Almighty, will, God willing, forever remain separate from my
interest in public questions. I cannot see myself ever supporting
discriminatory legislation, either on grounds of religion, sexuality, or ethnicity.
LJDarbo
--- On Sun, 7/3/10, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 14:20
LJD,
You stated in your latest contribution to this thread as follows:
"Bailo
Like our friend Mboge, I have not shared any "position", or,
"perspective", on homosexuality. I regard his analytical response to you as a cogent
clarification of my view." (LJD)
However prior to the above quote, you had summed as follows:
"Needless to say, I reject all public attempts at policing homosexuality.
Our conflicting views on this needlessly divisive issue
notwithstanding......................." (LJD)
So therefore I do not agree when you stated that "I "refering to yourself
"have not shared any "position", or, "perspective", on homosexuality."
Whereas I had shared my opinion that homosexuality should be outlawed in
The Gambia, your perspective on the subject-matter is you "reject all
public attempts at policing homosexuality."
You asked:
"In the event of a Christian President of the Republic, how would you
view a church on State House grounds? No prize for guessing I oppose the
Professor's State House mosque on grounds it discriminates against non-Muslims
and contravenes our secular Constitution." (LJD)
I think it would be a superb undertaking to build a Church on State House
grounds alongside the existing Mosque to also manifest the admirable
state of peaceful co-existence between Moslems and Christians in the Gambia.
Moslems could have their turn for the 5 daily prayers and Fridays and
Christians on Sundays. I suppose that were the Swiss predominantly Moslems, they
would never have banned the building of Mosques with minarets. Mosques,
Churches, Synagogues and Temples could be erected whereever on earth for the
proximity of worshippers. I do not however think that it would for
instance make any sense to build a synagogue on State House grounds since there
are hardly any Jews within the Gambia.
I don't think that our 'secular constitution' has been violated with the
building of a place of worship on State House grounds. I believe the State
could provide resources for the building of faith institutions be they
faith schools or churches or mosques.
One ought to be mindful not to fall for the secular extremism strand
which insists that State and religion should be poles apart. The head of State
of the UK is also officially known as the "Defender of the Faith" meaning
Defender of Anglicanism. Similarly, the King of Saudi Arabia is the
"Custodian of the Holy Mosques" of Islam. Methinks that's perfectly normal.
Secularism is simply another version of beliefs just like Christianity, Islam,
Judaism, Hinduism, etc. It is the new religion!
Notwitstanding that homosexuality is legal elsewhere, I believe that it
should continue to be illegalised in the Gambia.
I think that Harunasilo is for Haruna alone.
Best wishes
Bailo
Change to:
ChangeIgnoreClose
Suggestions:
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 5 March, 2010, 12:24
Bailo
Like our friend Mboge, I have not shared any "position", or,
"perspective", on homosexuality. I regard his analytical response to you as a cogent
clarification of my view.
And ATT Jr has synthesised my argument admirably.
To recap, what I said was limited to the contention that:
1) homosexuality exists in societies the world over, and that it is not
"decadence" exclusive to "Western" communities.
2) under equal protection doctrine, and law, it is indefensible,
religious "moral" imperatives notwithstanding, to use public power as an
instrument of oppression against a particular section of any polity.
I should add that as a multi-ethnic, and multi-religious society, the
"cultural" argument against homosexuality is quite weak for the simple reason
there is no single Gambian "culture".
In the event of a Christian President of the Republic, how would you view
a church on State House grounds? No prize for guessing I oppose the
Professor's State House mosque on grounds it discriminates against non-Muslims
and contravenes our secular Constitution.
I reassure you there is absolutely no danger of my conversion to
Harunasilo, but I admit to having broader fears rooted in the counsel of Martin
Niemoeller, a pastor of the German Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Nazi
era:
"In Germany , the Nazis first came for the communists, and I did not
speak
up, because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I
did not speak up, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a trade unionist. Then
they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up, because I was not a
Catholic. Then they came for me … and by that time, there was no one to
speak up for anyone". .
Gambian security chiefs would attest to the contention that intolerance
and oppression in public space has no friends, only sequential victims.
Homosexuality should not excite your thoughts in the context of our public
life.
LJDarbo
--- On Thu, 4/3/10, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thursday, 4 March, 2010, 7:33
LJD,
Thanks for succintly sharing your position on this contentious issue.
While respecting your perspective on homosexuality, I beg to permanently
differ with you on it.
Highest regards
Bailo
--- On Wed, 3/3/10, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, 3 March, 2010, 18:04
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co 6:9-10)
Bailo
Thank you for your thoughts.
Your "religious and cultural convictions as a Moslem" are not in doubt,
and I applaud your faith in the context of the Islamic religion.
As to "shunning" the "abomination" that, in your view, is homosexuality,
I concede you share that perspective with "millions of peoples (Jews,
Christians, Bahaians, Hindus, Rastafarians, Atheists, etc) from all over the
world".
Referring to your original reaction therefore, there appears to be some
contextual difficult in your explicit equation of homosexuality with
"Western ... moral decadence ...". Here again, I concede the widely held, if
erroneous view, that homosexuality is a "Western" phenomenon. Your
difficulty is that for practical purposes, Africa is not the natural home of "Jews,
Bahaians, or Hindus". In that regard, is it not more plausible to view
homosexuality as of universal prevalence, as a human issue? Islamic teaching
on the subject appears to support the contention that as a failing,
homosexuality is a universal failing.
For example, the universalism argument appears to be supported by the
fundamental precept that Mohammed (PBUH) is the last of God’s prophets, and
Islam, the perfection of religions. A careful analysis of this central
doctrinal tenet suggests that notwithstanding its geographic delimitations at
birth, the Islamic message is for people the world over. The logic of this
position is that pronouncements on homosexuality, like the Quranic message
in its totality, addresses people in all corners of the world. Again, a
demonstration that as a failing, homosexuality is a universal human failing
in so far as it inheres - even if among a tiny number - in societies the
world over.
On homosexuality, the views of Christianity, and Judaism, are no
different to those of Islam, giving us a complete picture of the Abrahamic progeny
of religions on this divisive issue. I take no issue with the views per
se, but if their practical effect is to discriminate against equal
stakeholders in Gambian public space, I reject any assault on homosexuality, and,
on homosexuals.
The foregoing is merely illustrative of the universal prevalence of
homosexuality, and not a state of affairs that exemplifies "Western ... moral
decadence ...".
For me, the thrust of any dispute regarding homosexuality lies in the
indefensibility of a differential application of a state’s police power to
similarly situated citizens. If YJ is permitted to stroll our beautiful
beaches with his female significant other, I see no cogent reason why ATT Jr.,
and yourself, should be prohibited from holding hands, and kissing, in
broad daylight, if you so chose, along Kairaba Avenue.
As preliminaries, I remind you that notwithstanding the population's
overwhelming adherence to the Islamic faith, The Gambia remains a secular
state. In consequence of that basic reality, no citizen must suffer for reasons
rooted in religious outrage.
Additionally, the Constitution, at section 33, guarantees equal
protection under the law.
Overall, my query is limited to whether fallible humans, in public life,
should sit in moral judgement on matters that are ultimately between a
person and God, especially when other vices, clearly more common (see opening
quotation), and yet accepted as lifestyle choices, attract similar views
from our triology of Abrahamic religions. Would you terminate, or alter,
the dynamics of a significant relationship upon discovering a friend, or
family member, to be homosexual, if you all along accepted his propensity for
adultery and fornication?
Please refer to material below on what "The Epistle To The Hebrews" has
to say on the punishment for fornicators, adulterers, and yes,
homosexuals, and decide whether we are justified in utilising public power to
ostracise people for what they do, behind closed doors, and against God.
Needless to say, I reject all public attempts at policing homosexuality.
Our conflicting views on this needlessly divisive issue notwithstanding,
I see nothing to diminish my respect and admiration for your courage on
key questions of our public life.
LJDarbo
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
"THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS"
Fornicators And Adulterers God Will Judge (13:4)
INTRODUCTION
1. In today's society, the honor and sanctity of marriage is under
constant attack...
a. Divorce is acceptable, made easy through "no-fault" laws
b. Adultery is considered normal, faithfulness to one's spouse as
unrealistic
c. Among religious and political leaders, many say that standards
against sexual immorality are antiquated
2. Even in the church, sexual immorality is a major problem evidenced
by...
a. The high number of divorces among Christians
b. The frequent reports sexual failings among preachers, elders, and
other Christians
3. This is not to say there are not those who still hold marriage in
high esteem...
a. Many people still believe sex is for marriage, and marriage is
for life
b. I've been blessed to have:
1) The example of my wife's grandparents, married 77 years
2) The example of my grandmother, widowed with six children when
only 30 years old, remaining single for over fifty years
3) Parents and in-laws who both were married over 50 years each
4) Three brothers, who along with myself are still married to our
first wives
4. In truth, our culture today is not that much different from the
society of the first century...
a. Where divorce and remarriage was rampant (women were known to
date events by their husbands; e.g., "Yes, that happened during
husband #5.")
b. Fornication was acceptable, adultery barely frowned upon
5. But Christianity offers a true contrast of standards regarding
morality...
a. Through clear and unequivocal teaching - 1 Co 6:9-10; Ga 5:19-21;
Ep 5:3-5
b. The same sort of teaching is needed today, which is why we need
to carefully heed the text of today's lesson:
"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but
fornicators and adulterers God will judge." (He 13:4)
6. The verb "is" is not in the Greek, leading some to translate the
first phrase as:
a. "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage
bed be undefiled;" (NASV)
b. "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept
pure" (NIV),
[Why should we honor marriage, and keep the "marriage bed" (a euphemism
for marital relations) pure? Because God will judge those who violate
it!
To see how, let's first define the terms used in the last half of this
verse...]
I. DEFINITION OF TERMS
A. "FORNICATORS"...
1. The Greek word is pornos {por'-nos}, from which we get
"pornography"
2. It is a general word for unlawful and immoral sexual
relationships (Barclay)
3. It includes any kind sex outside of marriage: pre-marital,
extra-marital (adultery), homosexual, etc.
B. "ADULTERERS"...
1. The Greek word is moichos {moy-khos'}
2. It means to have unlawful intercourse with another's wife or
husband (Thayer)
a. This may be while they are still married...
b. Or even AFTER they are divorced if not for the right reason
- cf. Mt 5:32; 19:9
3 So a person can be guilty of adultery either:
a. By having relations with another's spouse
b. By marrying someone who either:
1) Did not put their first spouse away for fornication
2) Or was put away by their spouse for ANY reason
C. "GOD"...
1. The Supreme Being, eternal and holy - Re 4:8
2. Omniscient and Omnipresent - Ps 139:1-12
3. Loving, yet just - cf. Jn 3:16; He 10:30-31; 12:29
D. "WILL JUDGE"...
1. The Greek word is krino {kree'-no}
2. "the act of condemning and decreeing (or inflicting) penalty
on one" (Thayer)
[Marriage should be held in honor, because the Bible makes it clear
that God will condemn and somehow inflict penalty on those who are
fornicators and adulterers who do not repent!
But why will God judge fornicators and adulterers?]
II. WHY GOD WILL JUDGE FORNICATORS AND ADULTERERS
A. BECAUSE THEY DESTROY THE LIVES OF OTHERS...
1. They destroy marriages
a. Either their own, by their infidelity (trust is often
destroyed)
b. Or others, by committing adultery with another's spouse
c. Sexual immorality is a major cause of divorce, which God
hates - Mal 2:16
2. They destroy families
a. Where divorce occurs, families are shattered
b. The children usually suffer the most, often with severe
emotional problems throughout their lives
c. Jesus warned about despising the needs of children - Mt 18:
5-7,10-11,14
3. They destroy friendships
a. Read carefully Pro 6:30-35
b. It is difficult, if not impossible, to restore good
friendships after one has violated another's spouse
B. BECAUSE THEY DESTROY THEIR OWN LIVES...
1. Read carefully Pro 5:1-14
a. You lose your honor (your reputation is destroyed)
b. You lose your wealth (ever hear of alimony?)
c. You lose your health (via STDs, perhaps even AIDS)
2. Adultery and fornication is indeed a sin against your own body
- cf. 1 Co 6:18
a. There is emotional damage (wracking guilt)
b. There is social damage (ostracized by others)
c. There is physical damage (venereal disease)
C. BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS ARE ESPECIALLY GUILTY...
1. They have taken members of the body of Christ and made them
members of a harlot - 1 Co 6:15-16
2. They have taken their body, a temple of the Holy Spirit, and
given it to a child of the devil - 1 Co 6:19-20
3. As Christians, who have been...
a. Made in the image of God
b. Redeemed by the blood of Jesus
c. Made a temple of the Holy Spirit
...they have allowed their lusts to bring them as low as
animals!
[When God's HIGHEST CREATION, because of purely selfish reasons,
destroys marriages, families, friendship, even their own selves, we can
understand why God WILL JUDGE such, and why Paul wrote what he did to
the Corinthians:
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co 6:9-10)
But HOW will God judge fornicators and adulterers?]
III. HOW GOD WILL JUDGE FORNICATORS AND ADULTERERS
A. HE WILL JUDGE IN THE FUTURE...
1. They will not inherit the kingdom of God - 1 Co 6:9-10; Ep 5:
5-7
2. They will suffer eternal torment - Re 21:8
B. BUT HE ALSO JUDGES IN THE PRESENT...
1. They become God's enemies - cf. Ja 4:4
a. While this passage likely speaks of spiritual adultery, it
would apply to literal adultery as well
b. Adulterers are estranged of God's fellowship, care and love
c. True peace and joy cannot be theirs
2. They receive in their own bodies what they rightfully deserve
- cf. Ro 1:24-27
a. Those who engage in such immorality do indeed "receive in
themselves the penalty of their error" (e.g., syphilis,
gonorrhea, herpes, AIDS)
b. But such is only a FORETASTE of the torment fornicators and
adulterers will receive, if they do not repent!
CONCLUSION
1. There are many good reasons to honor marriage and keep the "marriage
bed" undefiled...
a. The bond between a man and a woman whose relationship is built
upon trust and love
b. The joy, peace, and love that children in a strong family enjoy,
and deserve
c. The value of strong families in shaping our communities in which
we live
2. But we have focused on God's judgment on those who destroy this
important fabric of our society, and how it gives new meaning to the
phrase "be sure your sin will find you out" (Num 32:23)
a. It is almost impossible to keep immorality secret
1) Physical infirmities will more than likely bring it to the
surface eventually
2) Or loose lips will!
b. Even if one succeeds in hiding their immorality in this life, not
so in the life to come!
3. To close on a more positive note, let's offer some hope for those
who have been guilty of adultery and fornication...
a. You may not be able to escape the physical consequences of your
actions
b. But you can be forgiven, and escape the eternal consequences!
As we consider once again what Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, a
city known for it loose morals...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co 6:9-10)
We now notice the next verse...
"And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were
sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus
and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Co 6:11)
The gospel of Christ promises wonderful blessings to all sinners who
will come to Jesus in faith and obedience!
Have you been "washed", "sanctified", and "justified" in the name of
the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God? (Ac 2:38; 22:16; Ti 3:5)
--- On Tue, 2/3/10, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, 2 March, 2010, 16:22
LJD,
Your usual gentlemanly approach of discussing issues of interest to you
is inspiring.
Before answering the question that you posed me, I would like to state
that my position on homosexuality is foremost guided by my religious and
cultural convictions as a Moslem. As such, I believe that homosexuality is an
abomination to be shunned and not to be encouraged. However, I also
believe that the type of sexual activities that consenting adults engage in
within the confines of their bedrooms or private domains should not fall within
the purview of any person or authority. What ought to concern someone else
is what is practiced or displayed in the public arena.
I am please to have similar sentiments on this issue with hundreds of
millions of peoples (Jews, Christians, Bahaians, Hindus, Rastafarians,
Atheists, etc) from all over the world.
Now regarding your question, I would firmly discourage any local or
external attempt towards influencing Gambian laws to have homosexuality or
same-sex marriage recognised as perfectly legal. I do not however think that
anyone found guilty of such a vice should be ‘beheaded’. Re-orientation in
a correctional facility might be the best solution.
In conclusion, I do not support the legalisation of same sex marriages or
homosexuality from a moral, cultural and natural perspective.
Cheers
Bailo
--- On Mon, 1/3/10, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, 1 March, 2010, 1:44
Bailo
Assuming your position is accepted, what manner of conversation would you
recommend between The Republic of The Gambia, and its homosexual
community?
I am proceeding on the basis that like in the Malian example, some members
of homosexual Gambia may insist on living with their significant others
in a marriage, or in relationships akin to a marriage.
Is your concern, and, or rejection of homosexuality restricted to moral
condemnation, or do you consider it proper for the law to punitively
intervene?
LJDarbo
Bailo
Thank you for your thoughts.
Your "religious and cultural convictions as a Moslem" are not in doubt,
and I applaud your faith in the context of the Islamic religion.
As to "shunning" the "abomination" that, in your view, is homosexuality,
I concede you share that perspective with "millions of peoples (Jews,
Christians, Bahaians, Hindus, Rastafarians, Atheists, etc) from all over the
world".
Referring to your original reaction therefore, there appears to be some
contextual difficult in your explicit equation of homosexuality with
"Western ... moral decadence ...". Here again, I concede the widely held, if
erroneous view, that homosexuality is a "Western" phenomenon. Your
difficulty is that for practical purposes, Africa is not the natural home of "Jews,
Bahaians, or Hindus". In that regard, is it not more plausible to view
homosexuality as of universal prevalence, as a human issue? Islamic teaching
on the subject appears to support the contention that as a failing,
homosexuality is a universal failing.
For example, the universalism argument appears to be supported by the
fundamental precept that Mohammed (PBUH) is the last of God’s prophets, and
Islam, the perfection of religions. A careful analysis of this central
doctrinal tenet suggests that notwithstanding its geographic delimitations at
birth, the Islamic message is for people the world over. The logic of this
position is that pronouncements on homosexuality, like the Quranic message
in its totality, addresses people in all corners of the world. Again, a
demonstration that as a failing, homosexuality is a universal human failing
in so far as it inheres - even if among a tiny number - in societies the
world over.
On homosexuality, the views of Christianity, and Judaism, are no
different to those of Islam, giving us a complete picture of the Abrahamic progeny
of religions on this divisive issue. I take no issue with the views per
se, but if their practical effect is to discriminate against equal
stakeholders in Gambian public space, I reject any assault on homosexuality, and,
on homosexuals.
The foregoing is merely illustrative of the universal prevalence of
homosexuality, and not a state of affairs that exemplifies "Western ... moral
decadence ...".
For me, the thrust of any dispute regarding homosexuality lies in the
indefensibility of a differential application of a state’s police power to
similarly situated citizens. If YJ is permitted to stroll our beautiful
beaches with his female significant other, I see no cogent reason why ATT Jr.,
and yourself, should be prohibited from holding hands, and kissing, in
broad daylight, if you so chose, along Kairaba Avenue.
As preliminaries, I remind you that notwithstanding the population's
overwhelming adherence to the Islamic faith, The Gambia remains a secular
state. In consequence of that basic reality, no citizen must suffer for reasons
rooted in religious outrage.
Additionally, the Constitution, at section 33, guarantees equal
protection under the law.
Overall, my query is limited to whether fallible humans, in public life,
should sit in moral judgement on matters that are ultimately between a
person and God, especially when other vices, clearly more common (see opening
quotation), and yet accepted as lifestyle choices, attract similar views
from our triology of Abrahamic religions. Would you terminate, or alter,
the dynamics of a significant relationship upon discovering a friend, or
family member, to be homosexual, if you all along accepted his propensity for
adultery and fornication?
Please refer to material below on what "The Epistle To The Hebrews" has
to say on the punishment for fornicators, adulterers, and yes,
homosexuals, and decide whether we are justified in utilising public power to
ostracise people for what they do, behind closed doors, and against God.
Needless to say, I reject all public attempts at policing homosexuality.
Our conflicting views on this needlessly divisive issue notwithstanding,
I see nothing to diminish my respect and admiration for your courage on
key questions of our public life.
LJDarbo
--- On Sun, 28/2/10, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 28 February, 2010, 16:53
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