Haruiner, As usual, you've woken up and dittoing has began. Your stupid friend moonlighting as the political analyst changed a strictly legal discussion to comparing apples and oranges. There is nothing comparable between Kagame and a rogue like Jammeh. Tell me about what jungle justice i am running away and what havoc did i participate in to warrant my coming to live in the west. Persona delinquencies and inadequacies, what load of BS I am a man of my own and I am not seeking yours or anyones approval for anything. Talk of trashy and nonesensical self-delusional importance. Mboge On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Suntou, > > Thank you for your common sense. The problem with some of these folk is > that they participated in the wrecking of Africa before they fled jungle > justice or they had buyer's remorse once they settled in their new western > homes. And they blame their personal delinquencies and inadequacies on the > west. I say they brush their teeth before they speak to me about Africa or > Africans. How you change a conversation about law and jurisprudence to a > defense of kagame is beyond me. kagame's person or character was not in > question......however you feel about the man. Extradition requests are > between Judicial branches and nations. Not between Presidents or other > idiots. > > Thank you again for your marked sobrieties Suntou. > > Haruna. > -----Original Message----- > From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 6:17 am > Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT > FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE? > > The gentle man who wishes to make some us look like uncaring Africans, > hence not qualify in advocating anything African should take a good at > himself and his place of domicile. Many a times we read and hear our > Pan-Africanist brothers resident in Europe and America for decades lecturing > us about Euro-American this and that on Africans.. How self-serving these > brothers are. > > If you wish to take the moral high ground on Africa, then do the decent > thing and parachute to the West, East, South or Central Africa, then try > screaming from the rooftop there, hopefully people will pay attention to the > nonsensical out pouring of cheap emotion. Some of this So call > Pan-Africanist hardly ever venture into Africa, yet they feel singing > Pan-Africa enough in making words relevant, give us a break. > The economist Magazine has nothing to lose or gain in the articles some of > its commentators write about Africa. Can we for once see things in their > right context instead fancying around hanging onto our own baggage of > partisan politics. If anyone is educated in the west, you must without a > question read books, be lectured by western professors and enjoy the western > way of live. What moral ground do you have to see others as less of an > African than you are? Below is the Economist Magazine's article on Kegame > and Rwanda. In fact the article acknowledge the level of financial > discipline the government of Kegame is instituting, yet the other facts > cannot be left unspoken about because one is doing something’s right and > other major wrongs. We should delineate cheap emotion from serious issues > > > > http://www.economist.com/world/middle-east/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15622375 > > Progress and repression in Rwanda > Divisionists beware President Paul Kagame has improved people’s lives at > the expense of freedom > Mar 4th 2010 | NAIROBI | From *The Economist* print edition > Kagame, progressive and repressive > THE government of Rwanda is doing a lot of things right. It is pretty open > in its handling of aid money. Most foreign governments and charities are so > impressed by its detailed plans and apparent lack of corruption that they > are funnelling more of their aid directly through Rwanda’s government. > President Paul Kagame says he expects direct budget support to rise by a > quarter this year, to $519m. > The country has recovered valiantly from its year zero in 1994, when > 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered. Its centralised state is > leading the way in economic and technological reform in the region. It is > improving the country’s infrastructure, education and farming, and seeks to > preserve its ecology. It pushes equality for women, who comprise half the > government and parliament. > On the diplomatic front, Mr Kagame has been equally successful. He has sent > troops to help keep the peace in Sudan’s Darfur province and elsewhere. He > has stood up to mighty France, blaming it, as the region’s then most > influential Western power, for failing to prevent the genocide. And last > month the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, came to Rwanda and offered > something close to an apology. France, he said, had committed “grave errors > of judgment” before, during, and after the genocide. Questions linger about > the role of French special forces during the killing, as well as the fate of > Hutus living in France whom Rwanda wants extradited on suspicion of > involvement in the genocide. > France, for its part, has not dropped charges against some members of Mr > Kagame’s government who are alleged to have ordered the shooting down of a > French aircraft carrying Rwanda’s then president, Juvénal Habyarimana, a > Hutu; that action triggered the genocide. Yet both countries now appear more > at ease with each other. Days after Mr Sarkozy’s visit, Mr Habyarimana’s > widow, Agathe, was arrested near Paris (and then freed on bail) for > questioning over her alleged role in the genocide. French businessmen came > in Mr Sarkozy’s slipstream, eyeing minerals and timber in neighbouring > Congo, for which Rwanda is a conduit. “There is no doubt this is a > reconciliation,” says a Rwandan government figure. > Yet awkward question-marks hang over Mr Kagame and his ruling Rwandan > Patriotic Front. The president’s detractors say his party has not owned up > to killing thousands of civilians immediately after the genocide or to > responsibility for causing much bloodshed in Congo, which it invaded in > order to hunt down the *génocidaires* who had fled there. The Congolese > government, it may be noted, has co-operated with the Rwandans in their more > recent incursions into Congo. > Mr Kagame and his government are stifling political and press freedom in > advance of a presidential election due in August. He is almost certain to > win but evidently he is determined to secure a big majority to implement his > “one Rwanda” policies. Opposition parties have been forbidden to “use words > or facts that defame other politicians”. In practice, the government can > label any criticism against it as “divisionism”, which entitles it to lock > up the offenders. Members of the opposition say they are spied on and > bullied. > It is unclear whether the government will let the Democratic Green Party, a > feisty new opposition group, be registered. If not, the Greens say they will > back another lot, the Socialist Party-Imberakuri, which should be able to > run a presidential candidate. The head of a third opposition party, the > United Democratic Forces-Inkingi, Victoire Ingabire, says she has been > vilified since returning from exile in January. The government, she says, > has encouraged people to assault her, accusing her of being a *génocidaire > *. This week a former military intelligence chief, Kayumba Nyamwasa, who > was reported to have joined the Greens, fled Rwanda and is said to be > claiming asylum in South Africa. The government says he is wanted on > criminal charges—presumably divisionism. > End. > Going back to our own dictators corridors, What is it that his supporter > are fuming against us about? They are saying, the man is a dictator of > development and that he is fighting against corruption. He has given women > more power and rights. His Vice-President is a woman. At some point in his > government, there were more women in his government as Ministers than the > previous administration. All that the gentleman is promoting Kegame for, > Yahya Jammeh was once hail with those same things. > Should there be any reason for the cubing of civil rights and plurality of > views? > Is Kegame himself innocent of pumping tribal issues in politics? In fact, > Kegame's men in the army including the high ranking female officer play the > card more than many others. Check their own Google images Mr Gentleman. I > have seen images of the Rwandan army's latest incursion of Congo, the > close senior officers bragging about their prejudicial influences. These > things aren’t as simple as the gentleman is making it out to be. > Nothing should compromise tolerant co-existence, and the opposition views > is a key part to ensuring the population is represented at all levels. > Kegame's propaganda alone shouldn't be listened to at the expense of others. > He should be commended for lots of things, but he also needs to understand > that framing words against his opponent is not healthy for the future > stability of the country. Some of us are less of a Pan-African, however, we > know the working of a genuine democracy. Advocates of Europeanism live in > Europe. let our Pan-African folks migrate to Africa, instead of crying wolf > in western towns and cities. > Let not your bias of folks make you blind to their views. Stop been haste > over public issues. Take a deep breath and read the material before jumping > to conclusion. > LJ, thanks for your sober and intelligent analysis always. Long may we have > many non-partisan like you. Speaking the facts regardless of who it come > from. Saddly, folks here seems to look at names, party afilliation, some > ignoble little gangs before saying anything tangible. You have shown > to be above such petty mantra. > Suntou > Suntou > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Mboge >> >> You are absolutely right that "Four men accused of taking part in the 1994 >> Rwandan genocide win their High Court battle against extradition" was >> "strictly premised on the significance of the Legal precedence it sets for >> 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping persecution". Specifically, I was >> thinking about Justice Safiatou Njie (Justice Njie) and whether The Gambia >> Government is likely to succeed in having her extradited by the UK. >> >> Although her alleged crimes are not political, the whole mechanism of >> Gambian justice is heavily entangled in political calculations. She is not >> likely to get a fair trial, and as a requirement of Article 6 of the >> European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), now statutorily incorporated >> into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA 1998), her chance of eluding >> extradition is looking good. >> >> Even as the Rwandan decision is a brilliant exemplification of the rule of >> law, I have to agree with you that the High Court decision was a difficult >> one on moral grounds. I am unsure why Rwanda did not seek their extradition >> for onward delivery to the International Criminal Tribunal Rwanda (ICTR), >> based in the Tanzanian city of Arusha. >> >> For Rwanda, it should not matter where these alleged criminals are >> prosecuted. The evidence is suggestive of some involvement by all four in >> the '94 genocide. In that case, common sense would dictate that they be >> prosecuted for their alleged crimes, and where found legally culpable, >> adequately punished. >> >> Undoubtedly, the political arm of government was keen to have them >> extradited, but the Judiciary blocked that wish on the explicit command of >> both European, and UK law. >> Stated differently, the High Court probably hated the outcome, but there >> was a clear obligation to implement the law as it is. You are right that >> under other circumstances, these laws can work quite well for "genuine >> asylum seekers". This particular decision was nevertheless quite agonising. >> >> As to Kagame, I defer to your expertise on the man, and his vision. What >> he must do, and this sooner than he may prefer, is to create an environment >> that allows his vision to incrementally mature even as he himself no longer >> leads Rwanda. No one person can fully develop a country, and in my view, >> this means that every African leader, and, or, ruler, must come to terms >> with his/her own mortality. Only then will a mighty continent actualise its >> great potential by making use of the major part of the talent at its >> disposal. >> >> Many thanks for a fine response, and advocacy. >> >> Do you think the Gambia's extradition request regarding Justice Njie >> should succeed? >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> LJDarbo >> >> >> >> --- On *Sun, 21/3/10, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>* wrote: >> >> >> From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT >> FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE? >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Date: Sunday, 21 March, 2010, 17:38 >> >> >> LJD, >> >> I guess your sharing the judgement on the Rwandans by the High Court of >> the UK was strictly premised on the significance of the Legal precedence it >> sets for 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping persecution. I hope it is not >> presumptuous of me that you had in mind the Gambian female judicial employee >> currently in the UK apparently running away from Gambian justice *a la >> Jammeh when you shared the ruling.* I assume that it is no rocket >> science that this ruling will provide protection for the corrupt criminals, >> *genocidaires and their apologists* from being brought to justice where >> it matters *ie* where their alleged crimes were committed. >> >> It seems the so-called High Court Judges are more concerned with the human >> rights of vile *genocidaires* than those genuine asylum seekers whose >> fear of being killed and tortured in their homeland is consistently ignored >> and questioned and in some instances ridiculed by Western media pandering >> to the right-wing politics of the *"other*" coming *to take our jobs and >> scrounging on our generous welfare systems. *Im no lawyer but i hope >> this ruling also can be useful to genuine asylum seekers. >> >> >> Reading a response to the article you shared by our *"descerner extraordinaire >> on this forum" *comparing our criminal outfit headed by a deranged >> buffoon in the person of SHEPAD Jammeh gave me zits as well as being >> squirmish for a while. >> >> The realities of Gambia and Rwanda are markedly different. Kagame and >> Jammeh are poles apart. Kagame is a smart and patriotic leader, a >> visionary engaged in healing a traumatized people, one fighting a good fight >> in ushering in a new nation based on functioning institutions. The howling >> on this *divisionism by the Economist *is in my view an >> irrelevant unworthy distraction. Kagame should take no advise or lecturing >> from a rabidly anti-African magazine that once ran a feature cover story by >> Richard Dowden on Africa*: The Hopeless Continent. *It may be true that >> many an African country is marred by hunger, conflict and strife yet i have >> no doubt that if anything the African peoples are mostly hopeful and >> optimistic about the future. This may be sometimes wrongly attributed to >> fatalism. >> >> Of course there still remains a lot to be done in terms of democracy and >> human rights in Rwanda but one must acknowledge the giant strides already >> achieved in relation to these ideals. It is work in progress that is being >> managed very well under extremely difficult circumstances.* Rwanda under >> Kagame boast one of the most enlightened gender equality legislatures in the >> world.* And this goes beyond just symbolic balancing of the sexes in >> terms of representation (given that 33% of the Rwandan Parliament is >> female) in politics. Women compete and participate in all sectors of Rwanda >> society. There is evidence of substantive and particapatory democracy in >> everyday life of the ordinary Rwandan. The economy in Rwanda is booming, >> civil society is being built and their advocacy left, right and >> centre permeates in and at all levels of society. Under Kagame's Rwanda a >> state by all standards that failed, has emerged way ahead of many African >> countries in terms of health care access to its denizens. There is national >> health insurance for virtually all Rwandans. With Rwanda now on the right >> path to development and substantive participatory democracy i join the hoard >> of admirers wishing the Kagame juggernaut to keep steaming ahead. I do also >> hope that the juggernaut also destroys and annihilate all the negative >> forces trying to block it especially those coated in ethnicity. Ethnicity >> is important but not to the detriment of building a prosperous Rwandan >> nation that concerns herself with providing peace, prosperity and progress >> to its people. >> >> There exists a genuine concern by those trying to deny the *horrid >> genocide that took place in 1994.* Politicians such as Victoire Ingabire >> Umuhoza trying to play on ethnic sentiments must be reigned in. This does >> not mean that people should be denied the right to associate with the ethnic >> skirt they want to wear as long as it is not to villify or create >> schisms between and among their brethren and sisters. Afterall the Tutsi >> and Hutu are from the same family of Bantu-speaking peoples. But if not >> for a sad historical constructionism perpetrated by colonialists based >> on banal concepts such as the *Hamitic Hypothesis , the Tutsi-Hutu *dichotomous >> relationship might have been avoided*. *I shall not suffer the esteem >> lot of this forum on the nitty-gritty of this racist hypothesis which helped >> in the pogroms of the Tutusis in 1959 and the genocide of 1994. >> >> >> We have seen the shenanigans of France and some other northern >> governments trying to stifle the progress and development of Rwanda since >> the RPF came into power. I will have Kagame any day as my leader compared >> to the rogues we have splattered across our wounded continent irresponsibly >> abusing the noble ideals of democracy and human rights. >> >> Best, >> >> Mboge >> >> ** >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:56 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]> >> > wrote: >> >>> LJ, reading the economies Magazine edition of last week, i can see >>> similar tactics in the arena of suppression of opposition views in Rwanda to >>> that our own mad man. Kegame's government invented a dangerous term * >>> 'divisionist'.* This term is label against opponents of the government >>> with the country's sad past. The genocidal past was trigger by tribal >>> sentiment, hence the divisionist concept. >>> It is interesting how our guys invent this sinister strategies to >>> suppress alternative views. Key members of the opposition are regularly >>> accused of being guilty of genocide, a tack one is unable to free >>> himself from. >>> Suntou >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Lamin Darbo < >>> [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On *Fri, 19/3/10, LJD <[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]> >>>> >* wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: LJD <[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]> >>>> > >>>> Subject: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case >>>> To: [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]> >>>> Date: Friday, 19 March, 2010, 0:08 >>>> >>>> LJD saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you >>>> should see it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ** Rwanda accused win UK court case ** >>>> Four men accused of taking part in the 1994 Rwandan genocide win their >>>> High Court battle against extradition >>>> < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/uk/7989534.stm > >>>> >>>> >>>> ** BBC Daily E-mail ** >>>> Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all >>>> in one daily e-mail >>>> < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > >>>> >>>> >>>> ** Disclaimer ** >>>> The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything >>>> written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or >>>> opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender >>>> have been verified. >>>> >>>> If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know >>>> more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently >>>> asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm >>>> >>>> >>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>> [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>> >>> >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>> >> >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the >> List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> >> >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the >> List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤