Thank you too bro Oceanic, you are right that you are not a member of PDOIS. But as i said you IDENTIFIED with PDOIS as a sympathiser. Your point is noted, the fact however is that the struggles that ensued from the outside were only complimentary to those carried out on the frontline as Bailo quipped. Just to share this with you on the frontline and absentee combantants which do sometimes compliment each other. The Zimbabwe struggle for Independence offered a good example on this score when at a time during the heat of the struggle, there were calls for the forming of a "government in exile" while the fighting on the battle ground raged. The leadership of the sttrugle led my Mugabe then the freedom fighter, turned thier backs to such calls and chose to lead from the battle feild. I also agree Suntou deserves commendation. But he also have a lot of mending of ways he has to undergo. I will also tell you that i was pleasantly suprised on how he handled his response to you. He did very well. Nyang --- On Sat, 4/24/10, OCEANIC LAD <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: OCEANIC LAD <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Re: [>-<] The Gambian opposition deserves to be punching bags To: [log in to unmask], "Modou Nyang" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:14 PM Bro Nyang, I am not a member of PDOIS but a sympatheiser. I always agree to disagree.I think Suntou is a formidable force in the struggle and he gave me a new knowledge on Darboe. Remember most struggles were done from outside.The ANC,ZANU PF etc ,so the GMC can also do the same thing and i see light at the end of their tunnel. Points well noted and i appreciate your intervention. Gratis ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Mobile Email ------Original Message------ From: Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010 1:17:40 AM UTC Subject: Re: [>-<] The Gambian opposition deserves to be punching bags "The Diasporans are over stretched right now. We are coping with the increasing demands of remittances to our loved ones as the country is draining down of much needed financial assistance. The infrastructure, the educational costs and the expensive commuting cost is beyond imagination. Yet we have to balance that with our own commitments to our selves, family and community. If we don’t attend the meetings, we are working to do just that and help finance some opposition activities," Oceanic Lad. Bro Oceanic, I first have to thank you for your concern and contribution to efforts in helping bring about change for a better Gambia. The above quotation is a fact hence the Foroyaa editorial is not altogether spot on. I personally do not share everything in that editorial with Foroyaa. Just that am keeping them to my self and will discuss it only with party associates since internal party affairs are only discussed within parties. On the outside we can talk on the general issues as not all citizens are party affiliates. Besides this, I totally disagree with the essence of the rest of your write-up on this topic. Just as Suntou shared with you, your attack on the UDP and Ousainou Darboe has no justification because you are not one of them. Since political party affairs is the domain of affiliates of such parties you have no right to attack the UDP for being what it is.. And I think this is where one portion of the editorial becomes relevant. Because you are not a member or affiliated with the UDP you cannot talk on who it chooses to be it’s leader and when you are dissatisfied with the situation join or affiliate with another party; yet still if you are not satisfied and non of the existing parties are up to your taste, do the last option of forming one and formulate tactics and strategies on how to get the non party affiliates who are in fact the majority to support your programs. Anything other than this is not fair. And because you have identified with PDOIS your criticism should be directed to that party for it’s part in what you deem justifiable to bash the "opposition." PDOIS has it’s share of the blame, you know? Oceanic, you said the opposition deserve bashing but do you know that this is no solution to getting us what we want in anyway? We should not make an error of judgement in thinking that by hammering at the opposition they would yield to our wishes. It may instead yield the very opposite and also further alienate the voters from participating in shaping the destiny of our country.. We are already suffering from massive voter apathy due to whatever reason/s and should not deepen it further by utilising our scarce arsenal in a misfiring campaign. Your statement on PDOIS regarding Jawara’s statement on Communism is quite laughable. As someone who symphatises with PDOIS and shows good interest in your country’s politics, you should endeavour to study and understand our politics better. This will help a great deal and avoid falling in the pit of unconsciously making a star out of Suntou - someone who shamelessly duel in the slandering and smearing of the image and personalities of people he knows nothing about which he disguises as politics. What Suntou deems as politics as usual was the same mentality Jawara had when he was labeling PDOIS as you mentioned above. And this is what he is still doing as he lives under Jammeh’s government and care.What Jawara has succeeded in achieving in his pursuit of politics as usual in maintaining himself in power and failing to listen to PDOIS is what he got since 1994. History will do the rest especially it is unlikely for us to get any insight in the book "Kairaba." It is also laughable that you are relying on Suntou knows very little of the Ousainou that he is struggling day and night to represent in every diaspora forum, for education on Ousainou Darboe. Regarding Mai Fatty and his GMC party’s approach, I can’t differentiate how far that is from what you refer to as misguided claims online. The works of Foroyaa which you say are for the national interest is being done inside the Gambia and not online. I am yet to see what Mai and GMC are doing in equal terms. On the effectiveness of Mai’s approach as opposed to any other’s, it is my belief that individual party approaches is the business of members of such parties. But because some segments of the diaspora are viewing such moves by Mai as the action needed to remove Jammeh from power, I will wade into it to share my thoughts. First off all let me say in passing that GMC’s approaches in foreign lands towards foreign governments are one bit of the processes needed in our fight because we need the people of the world on our side in fighting the injustices and abuses taking place in the Gambia. I am not opposed to them in anyway. But to hold that GMC’s approaches are "more effective" is erroneous at best. Activities to change a government are never carried out abroad entirely just as other countrys’ peoples’ cannot change our country for us. Since the registration of the GMC as a political party by the IEC the only visible and reported activity of the party and it’s leader is it’s meeting of foreign diplomats outside the Gambia. There were reported activities in Dakar and recent outings in Europe too. All this deserves commendation. Let’s examine how overtures foreigners in foreign lands could effect political change in another country as a way of determining the effectiveness of organised opposition political parties activities vis-vis under discussion in a given country like the Gambia. Let’s suffice that the reported sanctions being sort by Mai from the EU as reported in the online media is granted and the US and other western countries follow suit. How will this enhance our fight to effect change on the ground? Remember Gambia was under sanction after the coup including a travel advice by the British during the transition period. How does all that helped us prevent Jammeh entrenching him self in power? The imposition of sanctions as a way of punishment to governments that fail in certain fundamental tenets of governance and disregard for international covenants are based on the premise that governments are so responsible and care so much about the welfare of it’s people that it represent’s and also wants to be seen in good light by their peers around the world, hence they would always endevour to do the right things to stay in thte good books of both it’s citizens and other peoples of the world. It is also evident that aanctions has been and are also utilised as a means to sow discord among a people against their government by way of the resulting suffering and hardships the sanction will create to make them rise up and effect change. This strategy has indeed worked in some instances but not always and in most cases has proved counter productive. I will give few examples here to emphasise my point. In recent history since after the overthrow of N’krumah’s government in 1966, the Mugabe government is the only government in Africa that has come under immense economic sanction and political smearing by western countries as well as a few others in Africa itself. This actions did indeed bear fruits by increasingly alienating Mugabe and his government with the Zimbabwean people but failed short of being acheiving ultimate objective altogether.. One could argue that Mugabe stole the election by interfering with the vote counting which am inclined to believe, but at the end of the day all that the MDC finally got out of the whole thing was to share power from a position of weakness rather than the strength that it’s supporters especially those in the diaspora wished. This is why even though Morgan Tsvangirai is the Prime Minister, his party members are still being victimised and dragged to court under bogus charges. This is why contrary to Suntou’s view that the Zimbabwe diaspora are the architects of the power sharing government in Zimbabwe, that segment of Zimbabweans are frustrated with the MDC that they supported so much to the level of calling them sellouts to the dictator. That is why do not even hesitate to pelt Tsvangirai while he was on a visit to England to show their displeasure. Going closer to home, one could also evaluate that despite all the overtures in the Dakar, Wade would not hesitate to trek to Banjul and talk about "extraditing Gambian dissidents" in Senegal. Even if one could argue that there is still bad blood and distrust between the two governments and diplomacy must be even it’s due even among foes, what the ordinary person in Brikama see and hear on TV and made to believe is that Wade and Senegal are in total support of Jammeh and his government. Evidence has shown that this moves are more effective when dealing specific situations like the case of the six journalists and not in efforts meant at effecting political change in a country. It is also note worthy that one of Jammeh’s favourite punching targets is the West which he never fails to capitalise on during national events to rile his supports and the sentiments of Gambians and Africans against so-called neo-colonial interference in our internal affairs. Suffice to say that the EU imposes sanctions against the country. As is clearly known that the elite and governing cliques never feel the heat like the ordinary citizen during sanctions, Jammeh will only have to up his punching tempo against the West and Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Ghadaffi will oblige in filing the financial gap created by the sanctions. And as we know Taiwan too will always be there as long as mainland China is out and even if bigger China replaces smaller China, the benefits for Jammeh are going to be bigger than before. Just like it was during the transition period that brought the "Allah’s World Bank" cliche, Jammeh is most likely to survive. Let’s continue the discourse. Nyang --- On Fri, 4/23/10, OCEANIC LAD <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: OCEANIC LAD <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [>-<] The Gambian opposition deserves to be punching bags To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, April 23, 2010, 9:08 PM Suntou, I am sorry to have offended you but what i said is what many are saying just they dont want to say it openly. Oceanic is a name known by a lot of folks;i am not hiding it,its a name known by all that know me;save those who dont know me before;Unfortunately,i do not want anymore people to know me because i have been known by enough persons already. I paid money to the coalition when they visited New York and I paid money towards the 2006 elections,i am not paying anymore money until they refine themselves and shall continue to punch them because they losing a golden opportunity and time is running out . The Gambian Opposition needs a turnaround,we need pragmatic people like you,Mai NK Fatty and Abdul Karim Sanneh to be the leaders;we are not making any headway with the present circumstances in the Gambia where Yahya Fankung fankung rules but not lead. --- On Fri, 4/23/10, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [>-<] The Gambian opposition deserves to be punching bags To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, April 23, 2010, 12:47 PM Oceanic I felt your rampant attack on Ousainou is unjustified. In as much as i applaud you reminding us of Femi's imprisonment, however, you are not making any sense in matters of UDP. Yahya Jammeh can anytime go into Ousainou's home, arrest him or kill him, why because he knows who he is and what he stand for. In fact Ousainou law career is distroyed because of his stance. Can we say the same thing for you? Hell no. Who knows who the Tiger Oceanic residing miles away from the territory of Yahya Jammeh is? I for one don’t know and I am sure quiet a lot of people here don’t know who the brave Tiger is either. Criticising Ousainou is one thing, but if that borders on irrational vendetta, then you are doing the wrong thing in a public life issue. You claimed that, you sympathise with PDOIS. That naturally made you an opponent of UDP and Ousainou. Why can’t you advise the leadership of that party and leave the UDP alone with their chosen leader. UDP chose Ousainou as the man to lead them, why should that boil your blood to such an extent you make petty irresponsible statement against Ousainou who has sacrifice more than you have for the cause of freedom and liberating the Gambia. Indeed Mandela’s ANC spend close to fifty years fighting apartheid. The number of blacks in South Africa is close to being 4 to 1 against the whites. However, the tiny amount of white inhabitants held millions of blacks to ransom for decades. You are failing to recognise that, dictatorship all over the world is a state of mind also. Dictators possess something their opponent haven’t. Yahya Jammeh does not scare Ousainou, and Yahya more than any other knows that very well. However, is it Yahya who actually jail, kill or exile our people? Yes and no. He has cadres of willing Gambians who are ready and willing to do as he like. Just like South Africa, Ethiopia, The Sudan, Egypt, etc, where dictators are holding or have held the people to ransom, the Gambia too must go through this phrase with utmost care. Oceanic, your rage is spurn by arrogant bias against the person of Ousainou A commando like you shouldn’t have any problem exposing to us your real identity, thereby even going back to the Gambia and form your political party. Ousainou is not forcing you or anyone to support him. Oceanic for all we know, you can be the man we are all waiting for to salvage our freedom. Stand tall and brave, we will be eager to embrace a saviour. The UDP don’t require Oceanic’s ill-advice, in fact, contrary to what you stated, Yahya knows with a free and fair elections, the UDP can win without any coalitions. The reason you cheaply chastise Ousaiou might be to appeal to a tiny section in here. However, you will fail in the erroneous misinformation like others. Yes, Ousianou is not a military eliminator like you, but he surely fears no Yahya Jammeh. What Ousainou fears are the likelihood of mass death should Yahya be confronted with scared Gambians like you who can only brag behind pen names. If you are ready for a sudden change of Government, please put forward a proposal and call on like minded Gambians, hopefully in fifty years time you will gain the numbers to confront Yahya’s army. For us in UDP, we shall continue to pursue a democratic peaceful end to the political imbalances. No amount UDP or Ousainou criticism will push us into violent confrontation. Oceanic, be brave, identify yourself, form a militant wing, and call on Gambians, you never know who is thinking like you are. As for the PPP communist tag of PDOIS, well Halifa rebuff that claim two years ago. You may have to consult with him before prancing on with that decade old stigma. Oceanic did you know that, Nelson Mandela use to hide even white sympathisers houses for fear of getting arrested? Who is Mandela to us all today? A symbol of what Ossy Davies once outtered, "..our black manhood..". Femi Peters knows more than anyone that, Ousainou cares about him more than all key board commandos. These two men have worked together for over 15 years; no amount of hate filled comments can divide them. So as i made it clear to you, what Ousainou is doing to free Peters is what the ANC did in trying to get Mandela free; using the legal system. The system is corrupt, unjust and unfair, yet Martin Luther King uses the racist courts, Gandhi uses the racist courts etc. So Ousainou is just doing what venerated freedom fighters did in the past. I am sure your dislike of Ousainou is no big deal, in your personal live, many would dislike you for nothing, and hence we at the UDP don’t give any significance to such unnecessary human failings. Finally, what the editor of Foroyaa is saying is that, people like you, who can confidently attack behind pen names are not worth engaging. And I agree with him or her on that score. If you said you love to see a free Gambia, then the party you support should benefit from your supporting them. It is not just about defending Halifa to the death, Halifa can do that for himself, what the party is querring is simply that ' The talk is enough, politics is money and time' what is your contribution Oceanic? Thank you. Suntou On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 3:32 PM, OCEANIC LAD <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I read this foroyaa editorial entitled The Gambian Opposition-The Punching Bag of the Gambian Diaspora and I felt right away to respond because I believe the author is defending the indefensible. It is a common truth all over the world that the opposition needs to be strong and assertive and repel the atrocities on the citizenry of any ruling Government. Most in the Diaspora especially myself do not see this happening in the Gambia of late and most of my discontent centered on the United Democratic Party. The UDP needs to revisit her leadership and makes drastic changes. The greatest impediment to opposition progress and development in the Gambia is the person of Lawyer Ousainou Darboe.Barrister Darboe should stick to the courts and litigate matters of public and National Importance but he is not a politician in any way and by any means. Darboe needs to disappear from the political front of the Gambia. The UDP’S dismal failure and almost nonexistent function in the Gambia is attributed to Lawyer Darboe. If an opponent know your weak point, he always prevail upon you.Yahya Jammeh no longer fears Lawyer Darboe in anyway; not least when he accepted on National Television to be his son after jumping into the Senegalese embassy at one time to seek refuge. As long as Darboe is the leader of the Opposition, Yahya Jammeh would not shake a bit because he simply is not a formidable opposition to him. The PPP is in disarray, I see no rational on their activities when they do not even have a base and their founder basking with the dictator day in day out that’s why people like Juwara calls it quit.Hamat Bah is missing in Action at his Beach hotel .All in all the opposition has now turned to a money making venture as there is no unity and a fragmented union can never be a formidable force to any established opposition much more a dictator. The editorial went on to lambast the diasporans of not supporting the opposition as a unit but individually and yet claims that the opposition is not challenging the Government. The diasporans invited all the opposition candidates to Atlanta, Georgia in the USA in 2005 and set the groundwork for a formidable opposition. The money, time and resources involved in that was formidable only for it to be spoiled by Lawyer Darboe and the UDP.The Diasporans championed the struggle for liberty of the six Journalists, Chief Manneh, Kanyiba Kanyi and now Innocent Femi Peters and yet the UDP and the Gambian Opposition are mute. This is in addition to many other internal, open and external activities that the Diaspora Gambians are doing for the liberation of our country. As I write innocent Femi Peters is unjustly jailed with no one in the Gambia openly challenging it while the diasporans marched to the Nigerian and British High Commissions to challenge and raise awareness to his plight. The second round of Injustice in Gambia; free Innocent Femi peters now. We have seen the objective reporting and engagement of authorities that foroyaa is doing towards national interest but activities of Newspapers cannot be attributable to a political party. The participation of Sedia Jatta, M Sanneh and KK Daffeh on the mis governance of our country coupled with the open letters of Halifa Sallah to the president are positive actions that need commendation and acknowledgement. The Diasporans are over stretched right now. We are coping with the increasing demands of remittances to our loved ones as the country is draining down of much needed financial assistance. The infrastructure, the educational costs and the expensive commuting cost is beyond imagination. Yet we have to balance that with our own commitments to our selves, family and community If we don’t attend the meetings, we are working to do just that and help finance some opposition activities. The way forward now is for the UDP to relinquish all her pride and forceful usurpation of the Gambian Opposition; Lawyer Darboe to retire from politics as even his face in campaigns would trigger less voters to the opposition Call a National Opposition Convention in Tamba Kunda if the [Gambian police don’t give you permits]and work towards a two year plan; select a formidable and fierce leader that would commit to serve as an interim leader who wouldn’t seek nor stand for any reelection and campaign on a Human Rights platform to get back our country. I am a supporter of PDOIS activities in my homeland but Gambians have already been brainwashed with the communist manifesto misrepresented by former President Jawara; many a times Gambians tell you the PDOIS is a truthful and trustworthy party but there system can’t work here as even my wife wouldn’t be mine alone and I would plough my farm and share the produce with everyone. Such thirty year misinformation would be difficult to counter in a short period of time from a polygamous and strictly subsistence populace. I recently have strong feelings that with his pragmatism and gentlemanly appearance, Mai NK Fatty and his GMP are more effective than the whole Gambian Opposition parties; what a joke; I Think what the opposition need is to reorganize and face reality before defending the indefensible with misguided claims online. ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤