Mboge Again thanks for the good input. It's refreshing to see folks being themselves without pulling rugs under others. Indeed, I love our heritage and the ways we can use it to further our cause. In a larger part, my query is mainly targetted at some of Pan-Africanist advocates here with us. I know some might be elites or at worst snurbish, but who cares... I am familiar with some the arguments you put forward. In fact, I have read some chapters on the flaws of Nkrummah, I read about Nkrummaism and even what the General who overthrow him based his reasons. The level of corruption at Nkrummah's Ghana was high, party officials were just at par with our own PPP. And symbolically, when Nkrummah went, his party just like the PPP nearly died. The cult of one leader personality became the unique selling point of our Pan-Africanist leaders. I felt they largely left the masses behind. Should this same thing be allow to repeat itself? You are right, Churchills and other western leaders I feel were realistic with their agendas. They where looking out for themselves principally. Nkrummah's Ghana was a divided society, the titles he amassed became a source of resentment and jealousy. I agree with you that, our folks where bargaining with highly dangerous brokers then. The communist-socialist and the Capitalist West. At a time when they newly assume leadership. However, since their key selling point was fighting the dominance of the white man over us, they too should have known better. Their supporters and partry officials shouldn't have been allowed to trampled over others. An interesting book on Nkrummah is the one written by Jean Lacouture --Demigods: charismatic leadership in third world. And a case study of our independent leaders, a book writen by Peter Omari-- The anatomy of African dictatorship. However, the book i found quiet remarkeable is the one written by Nkrummah's former Cheif of Staff---T.H Alexander titled, African tightrope; my two years as Nkrummah's Chief of staff. In all this books, one can argue that, they mainly looking for faults on our leaders, however the reality is, if all was well, the systems should have taken roots now. Mboge, I came across this extract of the man who influence Nkrummah to build the deep Pan-African ideals: Azikiwe's statement sent Nkrummah deep: "*The European believes in the god whose name is spelt deceit. He believes in the god whose law is Ye strong you must weaken the weak. Ye civilized Europeans you must Christianise the pagan Africans with bombs, poison gases... Ye administrators make Sedition Bill to keep the African gagged, make deportation Ordinance to send the African to exile whenever they dare to question your authourity*." Quoted from African political kingdoms David Rodney1988 And lastly, the culture thing you mention, I like this statement by Du Bious: "*There is of course, nothing more fascinating than the question of the various types of mankind and their intermixture*." W.E.B Du Bios Du Bios believes that, studying the past would assist blacks progress by revealing scientific laws that black people could use for their advancement... check out his essay on ‘the conservation of races’.. Unless, we see that, the west will inherently promote and act to advance their course, without paying too attention to our cries, we will be bogged down in futulity. The endless empiricism is good only in designing a frame of mind. But the whole Pan-Africanist cadre shouldn't be in engaged in it. Our Gambian Pan-Africanist seems to avoid discussing this issues if they feel you are unwilling to bow down in awe of their conviction. I end with the infamous villain to the Pan-Africanist: His book, The Myth is Broken, Major General AK Ocran 1968 have this to say about Nkrummah: "There exist no centre, no source of power, Nkrummah is everything... The security act 1963, no proceeding could be instigated aginst the state. Osagyefo, father of the nation, are among his titles. Now there are brillaince to the efforts of Nkrummah or even dictators like Sekou, however if we fail to highlight their errors and learn lesson, half-baked presidents like Yahya will have no limitation in entrenhing themselves. Thanks again Suntou On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > *"Coming to the Pan-African question. Are the advocates determine enough > in limiting their attacks on the past and try to develop ways Africa can > move on rather than, digging from the past and not bringing forth any > tangible way forward? I read the Pan-African journals regularly, and to be > frank, they seem to be stuck in the past. We have to think ahead. Yes, > crimes were committed against our people, but should we be reminding > ourselves of those horrors at the detriment of finding solutions to the > African problem. How many of our founding fathers remain President until > they were unseated by coup. From Nkrummah, Sekou and others? Did we see any > Pan-African criticising this gentlemen? I haven't found one yet, and I would > love to see one." * Suntou Touray > > Bro Suntou, > > Your observations are quite pertinent and interesting. However, I think > Pan-Africanism, some assume it to be an ideology, some worldview etc has > been dissected and rigorously critiqued by both admirers and dissenters. > The leading of Pan-Africanists such as Nkrumah, Padmore, Dubois, Sylvester, > Blyden of earlier time have all been thoroughly critiqued. Nkrumah's > failures have been well documented, yet one cannot take from him that the > ideals of Pan-Africanism he championed were noble and are still relevant for > Africa's future development. Sheku Toure also has been criticised thoroughly > by genuine Pan Africanist. The late Pan Africanist and Socialist Abdourahman > Babu criticaly profiled Toure (I think the article was written in '80s and > was called something like-The Three Toure's). That article examined Sheku > Toure, the man , the Pan Africanist ideologue and Toure the dictator. > Toure's crime against Diallo Telle and many opponents is not lost on any > genuine Pan-Africanist. Yet we must acknowledge that however much we > analyse these leaders with the benefit of hindsight that they were living in > a period where the world order was a deeply divided one thus the Cold War. > Still their crimes against their people cannot be excused. It is as well > fair to say that Toure, Nkrumah, Nyerere all did try to live up to the Pan > Africanist ideals to a certain degree. > > I wish the same kind of assault and continuous attempt to discredit the Pan > Africanist were made to some of the heros of Western Democracy and Human > Rights. I am refering to socalled champions of freedom such as Sir Winston > Churchill and President Thomas Jefferson whose sanitised contributions > to democracy by their admirers never gives the real picture of who they > were. A good read of British history shows that Churchill's purview of > freedom amd equality etc were not for* 'half naked people and noble > savages' but for a people with a certain hue-* I for one view these > gentlemen as nothing but racists and oppressors. People like Ben Banneker > (father of the civil rights movement) who wrote the following lines to > Thomas Jefferson exposes the folly in these so-called forefather of freedom > and democracy: > > Bannker to Jefferson, August 19, 1791: > *"Sir, how pitiable is it to reflect, that although you were so fully > convinced of the benevolence of the Father of Mankind, and of his equal and > impartial distribution of these rights and privileges, which he hath > conferred upon them, that you should at the same time counteract his > mercies, in detaining by fraud and violence so numerous a part of my > brethren, under groaning captivity and cruel oppression, that you should at > the same time be found guilty of that most criminal act, which you > professedly detested in others, with respect to yourselves. > > Sir, I am fully sensible of the greatness of that freedom, which I take > with you on the present occasion ; a liberty which seemed to me scarcely > allowable, when I reflected on that distinguished and dignified station in > which you stand, and the almost general > prejudice and prepossession, which is so prevalent in the world against > those of my complexion. > > I suppose it is a truth too well attested to you, to need a proof here, > that we are a race of beings, who have long labored under the abuse and > censure of the world ; that we have long been looked upon with an eye of > contempt ; and that we have long been considered rather as brutish than > human, and scarcely capable of mental endowments."* Benjamin Banneker > (according to some sources Banneker's parents were slaves from the > Senegambia area that his family name Banneker came from fula name BA[h]). > > Source-http://www.africawithin.com/bios/letter_from__banneker.htm > > Suntou genuine Pan Africanists are not stuck in the past. Tajudeen Abdu > Raheem who died last year was a modern Pan-Africanist who never shied away > from 'Talking Truth to Power'. Many a Pan Africanist like Taju indeed have > argued tangibly the way forward for Africa. Yeebo's piece also is very > pragmatic and clear on the path Africa should head towards. Non of these > people among many are not rabid Pan Africanists stuck in the past. They > acknowledge Africa's historical contribution to world civilisation and > development whilst not giving into neo-colonial narratives of the African > condition. I pay respect to our Pan-Africanists nearer to home who i think > are not stuck in past and are contributing tangibly towards a better future > for Gambia and Africa. > > Bro, i am sure you accept how important for a people not to forget their > past and i know you living up this due to your involvement in highlighting > our diverse cultures. All over the world people keep their histories alive > in order to have a better grasp of their present situation as well as to > avoid pitfalls in the future. I hope Africans continue to write Africa's > story from our perspective devoid of hatred and malignancy toward other > races and peoples. I also hope that Africans stay vigilant on the on-going > assult in representing our story by neo-colonialist worldviews. > > Thanks Suntou thanks for your genuine interest in things Gambian and > African. > > Best, > > Mboge > > > > > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:08 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Mboge, >> I agree with the substance of your argument. In fact, I was looking for >> such sober analysis. The reason I bring in the Pan-African question >> is simply to see, the developing thinking around the ideal. Since some >> brothers seems only able to criticise the west taking that as pro-African. >> Your assertions on the Muslim community dilemma is also pertinent. If you >> are following the current discourse, many main stream Islamic scholars have >> written tones of articles and papers on the stance of Islam against >> pseudo-Maxist element parading themselves as Islamic. >> The burden lies with Muslim scholars to distant themselves from criminals >> and false ideas inter-woven in the name of our faith. >> >> Coming to the Pan-African question. Are the advocates determine enough in >> limiting their attacks on the past and try to develop ways Africa can move >> on rather than, digging from the past and not bringing forth any tangible >> way forward? >> I read the Pan-African journals regularly, and to be frank, they seem to >> be stuck in the past. We have to think ahead. Yes, crimes were committed >> against our people, but should we be reminding ourselves of those horrors at >> the detriment of finding solutions to the African problem. >> How many of our founding fathers remain President until they were unseated >> by coup. From Nkrummah, Sekou and others? Did we see any Pan-African >> criticising this gentlemen? I haven't found one yet, and I would love to see >> one. >> In Halifa's book on the founding of the Pan-African course, I didn't come >> across any serious criticism of the Nkrummah's political strategies which >> led to his undoing. We have to be brave to question our past. And as i you >> said, we are a one human race, yes, injustices have taken place on colour >> lines, however we shouldn't get too bog down into such philosophies today >> whilst not foorging ahead with ideals that will raise the African >> respectability. Whatever a white man can do, given the opportunity, a black >> man can do it better. Hence, the problem today is mainly within us. If we >> can deal with our problems maturely, the West have no chance in undoing our >> advances. >> Thanks for the brilliant response. >> Suntou >> >> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for sharing this video showing some of the buffoonery of "The >>> Last King of Scotland and the Conqueror of the British Empire-Late Field >>> Marshall Idi Amin DADA". I think on the issue of SHEPAD's aspirations of >>> becoming another African Mad Man Dictator, I would say he is not aspiring, >>> he is already a CERTIFIED LUNATIC. He arrived moons ago. >>> >>> This is an interesting statement of yours : *"The Pan-Africanist >>> brothers should analyse men like Idi Amin, failure to do so means, their >>> endless attacks on Europeans whilst at the same time enjoying the western >>> live style is comical and contradictory."* It seems like asking moslems >>> to analyse the behaviour and acts of those who murder in the name of Islam >>> to absolve themselves from criticisms especially the type levelled against >>> moderate British moslems by the likes of Tony Blair, Thatcher and >>> others following the 7/7 Tube bombings. Why should they? We all know that >>> those lunatics going around murdering innocent people are evil incarnate >>> acting on some perverse interpretions of the Holy Quran. I see no reason >>> why ordinary moslems should be held to account for the dastardly and >>> criminal behaviour of some mad people. They do not owe anyone explanations. >>> In the same vain I do not think it is fair to ask those advocating for a >>> Pan Africanist worldview to account for or analyse the shenanigans of a >>> buffoon like Idi Amin, Yahya Jammeh, Mugabe, Nguema and many more. >>> >>> Idi Amin never represented the ideals of Pan Africanism just as SHEPAD >>> Yahya A J J Jammeh is not representing Pan Africanism. Uganda was salvaged >>> from the madness of the buffoon DADA by a more credible Pan-Africanist >>> Mwalimu Julius Nyerere of Tanzania who disregarded the >>> whining of an emasculated and dysfunctional OAU which had lost its way and >>> invaded Uganda in 1979. Ugandans and most agree that the Mwalimu was right >>> in invading Uganda. Though one must admit Nyerere also had some >>> short-comings but he was arguably one of the greatest African leaders ever. >>> His *Ujamaa ideology *has its critics and rightly so. >>> >>> Real Pan Africanist have no issue with Europeans or white people. They >>> have nothing to be ashame of. Africans have been and are still part of >>> Western/Global development and i see evidence that we are not . The Traffic >>> Light and the Oxygen Mask are the inventions of Gareth Morgan, an >>> African American, George Washington Garver revolutionised >>> American agriculture and he was the son of African Slaves, the first >>> successful human organ transplant was carried out by a black doctor etc. >>> These might sound trivial for some but for me these are important >>> in developing the self-esteem of the African given the so many negative >>> imagery about the black man that abound. >>> >>> What Pan Africanist like the late Cheikh Anta Diop tried to do was to >>> advocate through scholarship and scientific evidence Africa's contribution >>> to world civilisation and knowledge. Africans both at home and in the >>> diaspora continue to contribute to world development but most of >>> the time this is not acknowledged due to the hegemonic dominance of the >>> powerful. It is still relevant to make sure that our story is written by us >>> and not for us by outsiders. >>> >>> Just the other day on this forum, you shared with us the >>> below highlighted piece which distorts the reality on how order was brought >>> back to the Gambia following Samba Sanyang's escapades: *"The SAS in >>> Gambia 1981Three British Commandos Recaptured an Entire Country Christopher >>> Eger, Apr 27, 2007 ". *Indeed a big lie like this must be confronted by >>> Gambians who know the truth. Howvever, Egers story is the kind of stories >>> one will find bandied around as credible rendition of how order was restored >>> in the Gambia due to powerful forces. Africans must remain vigilant >>> in representing Africa's case at the world stage. >>> >>> Pan Africanism today has evolved, is still evolving and is about genuine >>> participatory democracy, good governance, credible leadership, transparency, >>> accountability etc: >>> ** >>> Zaya Yeebo a Ghanaian, and a known quantity among Gambians believes Pan >>> Africanisms' relevance today should be that: >>> ** >>> " We must challenge authoritarian rule, mismanagement, poor leadership >>> and the lack of accountability of our leaders and public institutions. It is >>> the historic duty to Africa of all Africans to do so. It is also the only >>> way to help address the perennial problems of underdevelopment, poverty, >>> deprivation, and the poor deplorable state of our infrastructure when a lot >>> of resources go to private sources. But we must also have the courage of our >>> founding fathers, the pioneers of Pan-Africanism and African liberation, to >>> challenge the prevailing orthodoxy that holds the view that corruption and >>> authoritarianism is a typical African problem. This stems from the colonial >>> mindset, allowing international institutions to target African leaders, haul >>> them off to some foreign jail under the guise of answering for impunity. It >>> is inconceivable that the US or Britain will act similarly. That also means >>> that African activists should reappraise and carefully reflect on the sort >>> of activities which passes off as advocacy and campaigning while fuelling >>> anti African actions nationally and globally." Zaya Yeebo >>> >>> *Pan-Africanism in our time by* Zaya Yeebo is a very interesting >>> read and i hope you will find the urge to read it. If u will follow this >>> link: >>> http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/57772 >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Mboge >>> ** >>> ** >>> ** >>> >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22 >> "And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the >> difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs >> for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran >> >> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the >> List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > -- Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22 "And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran www.suntoumana.blogspot.com ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤