Ah Demba my friend. As I expected, you were only expressing a personal opinion geared toward inuring distrust among coleagues. I will again use your own notes for consistency sakes. [In a message dated 6/15/2010 2:51:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:Haruna, I do not intend to labor into debates for the sake of it,] My Demba. Demba while I await the Braseeeeel-North Korea match, I do remind you that Haruna does not debate on Ellen or other e-community. So you're safe as you shy away from Labouring debates and circumstance. I just want to allay your fears in that regard. [but just want to add that UDP does not belong to a group of people or individuals.] Demba. Exactly. So the UDP belongs to you and Hon. Hamat Bah of the NRP would you at least grant that? By virtue of being a political party, the UDP, NRP, GMC, ppp, nadd, and BUDOIS all belong to all Gambians or at least that is the idea. Political party means a party of the polity. You are a polity. I am a polity. Olly Mboge is a polity. Joey is a polity. Suntou is a polity. Haruna is a polity. The word polity is an adjective. [UDP or any other political party seeks to represent all Gambians and the last time I checked I was still Gambian.] Demba. So my friend Demba, you confirm here again that because you are Gambian (and there is no challenge to your Gambianness, real or imagined. You don't need to doublecheck your Gambianness Demba. It is intrinsic.) and because you are interested in Gambia's governance, you declare that the UDP, and even though you did not specifically say this, the NRP, GMC, ppp, nadd, APRC, and PDOIS, all belong to you in the same way they belong to your fellow citizens. You are a great man Demba and I am proud to be your fellow citizen. [I therefore do not need to be part of UDP or NRP to issue what I think is an independent citizen observation.] Demba. Exactly. That's a given. Neither do you need to belong to APRC, GMC, ppp, nadd, or PDOIS to issue observations independent citizen or not. Your independence as a citizen is in the eye of the beholder of your observation and your station in the life of your country. It is not for you to ascertain your own "independence" no matter how steadfastly you believe in it. Reminds me of my VIetnamese friend Duk when he shared with me once "harara my sitta will maha good wife for ya! Demba don't make me laugh men. I have always known you to be funny, even when you're serious. [I am entitled to my opinions and please let me make them.....] Demba. Well go ahead, make your opinions. I encourage that in all citizens of all countries. Opinions are a dime a dozen. There are as many opinions on any one issue on earth as there are humans. And some of them are crazy. you should hear my friend from Gujjarat make his opinons about Amarikans. Demba you haven't heard opinions of others yet until you hear this fellow. Outlandish is what I call him. And he's a snake charmer by profession. He just moonlights at the gas station he happened to own. [I have no beef against Hamat or UDP...] Demba. Demba you do not need to convince me or your fellow citizen that you have no beef against Hon. Hamat and or the UDP. For all you know it could be chicken you have against them. We will determine that from your opinions and other emissions. You still haven't shared with us why you give counsel to the UDP to be wary of Hon. Hamat, their friend and coleague. And fellow citizen. WHo also is entitled to his opinions. Unless of course you want to take away Hon. Hamat's freedoms to expression and association. [I was simply expressing my concerns and observations on the inconsistencies I have seen as far as Hamat is concern.] Demba. Watch your tenses Demba. Any other person I will disown them. But woe betide me if I should even consider disowning you, myself. I ain't that stupid. Just watch the tenses. SO you were simply expressing your "concerns" and observations on the "inconsistencies" YOU have seen in Hon. Hamat. And I have since simply shared with you that it is odious to use YOUR concerns and observations to inure distrust and division among your fellow citizens, and that it is presumptuous of you to give such malignant counsel to a political party that belongs to all of us as you declared. Do you understand now? The use of the word "simply" does not afford you any indemnification here. So I would drop that cacamayme word. [I was only referencing a bitter lesson UDP might have learned from Waa Juwara] Demba. SInce you mentioned UWaa, I want to share with you that the UDP, NRP, GMC, APRC, ppp, nadd, and BuDOIS all learned their lessons from UWaa. How would you commute that lesson of UWaa to Hon. Hamat when.... [and Hamat is acting like that....] Demba. You only opine (not based on any fact or experience with Hon. Hamat) that Hon. Hamat may be acting like UWAA???? You see how your logic doesn't make any sense? ANd you're just trying to cover your shortcomings instead of confront them head on and apologise to Hon. Hamat and the UDP and move on with your life, free to make another opinion. Not counsel the UDP in Division, distrust, and discord. [Again, I was simply expressing my opinion and cautioning on some genuine observation.] Demba. Demba, you like using the words (your opinions) "simply" and "genuine". What will it take for you to understand that those words are opinions? And they are the most dangerous words criminals like to use. Show me any convicted felon who doesn't use these words profusely to worm their ways out of the crimes they comit. [Just for the record, Gambia's governing and political situation is so dire, so distasteful that I have promise myself to rise above individual party politics as far as Gambia is concern...] Demba. Do you know Demba who made Gambia's governing and political atmosphere so dire, so distasteful?????? Partly, it is people who pit friends and family against one another and create the mirage of ethnic division etcetera. I hope you can appreciate your contribution toward Gambia's current state of affairs. And you must acknowledge that your discomfort and or distaste does not constitute an emergency on the part of your fellow citizens. I know you like to think so. But trust me we can spot evil whenever it rears its head. [We either strive to find a collective solution to our political problems or we will go down together and be even bitter come dawn 2011.] Demba. I think from your emissions Demba, you are quickening the eventuality of the common decrepitude of dawn 2011 that you pray for. [Thanks.] Demba. You're most welcome my friend and brother. I encourage you to reconnoitre right. For Gambia's sakes. I still believe in you. Haruna. On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote: Mr. Baldeh, Demba, how are you? I noticed you used some strong language in relation to Hon. Hamat and I think they are out of place. I will use your notes to explain why. [-----Original Message----- From: Demba Baldeh [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) To: GAMBIA-L [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 3:36 pm Subject: Re: Hamat Bah at the UDP Congress With all due respect... Hamat should equally zip his mouth.] Demba. WHy should Hon. Hamat zip his mouth Demba? [While I congratulate the UDP on their successful congress, they should watch Hamat.] Demba. WHy should the UDP watch Hon. Hamat Demba? This smacks of creating distrust among coleagues. You must have a good reason to counsel thusly. [Gambia doesn't need seasonal politicians who disappears and resurface only few months before elections.] Demba. You mean Demba doesn't need ....... It is burdensome to speak for all of us Demba especially where you counsel us on our relations with our fellows. Besides that, Hon. Hamat is the leader of NRP, a political party in Gambia. I don't know if you are a member of NRP's executive or rank and file but I hazard not. Do you not think Hamat knows best how he ought to complete the affairs of NRP and her campaign parameters? I think all politicians disappear from public view on occasion and reappear a few months before elections. Do you think Hon. Hamat is unique in that? A politician vies for votes of an electorate and there usually is a calendar for elections. Is this why you warn the UDP to watch Hon. Hamat? I think not Demba. [As much as Hamat may be my brother I question his sincerity in becoming a genuine political partner.] Demba. Demba, brother or not, are you seeking genuine political partnership with Hon. Hamat or the NRP? Have you informed them of your desire for such partnership? Besides, why would your political partnership with Hon. Hamat inure caution for distrust for the UDP? Surely you must have a good reason why you counsel the UDP to watch Hon. Hamat. And is it your place to issue such ignominious counsel to a political party of which you may not be member. And of another political party of which you may not be member? We must be very careful about pretenses and false agency, particularly where that may inure distrust and division. [Remember Hamat was the first to decline party lead coalition during the NADD discussion.] Demba. And Hon. Hamat has the authority and the discernment to make such decisions on the behalf of the he leads. WOuld you grant him that right and privilege? Is this why you counsel the UDP to watch Hon. Hamat? I must not believe what I'm hearing from you Demba. I am thoroughly disappointed. Perhaps toward the tail-end of your notes I will chance on the reason. I haven't so far. Or are you saying that Hon. Hamat, having decried party-led coalition prior, and then to embrace an alliance with the UDP (which is a party-led alliance, NOT a party-led COALITION) therefore Hon. Hamat is liable to change his mind from time to time and therefore he may not be reliable????????????????????? Well Demba let's assume the UDP-NRP alliance is a party-led COALITION for conversation sakes. Then the two positions of Hon. Hamat are starkly contradictory. I submit to you that Hon. Hamat is right to change his mind at any time he deems appropriate for the interest of NRP don't you suppose? Afterall NRP, like UDP, like GMC, Like ppp, like nadd, like PDOIS, is a POLITICAL PARTY where decisions for the ware of the party are made in consonance with the wishes of their constituencies. POLITICS is verily about repositioning and readjusting positions. I only went to this length because I think you sincerely believed that the UDP/NRP alliance was a COALITION. The difference is material. ANd the two parties called it an alliance named ARC. NOW NADD would have been a coalition if it were successful. What Hon. Hamat was saying was that he did not like the idea of one party subsuming the other parties which I agree with wholeheartedly. That has no bearing on the UDP/NRP alliance. [He was a no show when there were leadership nominations.] Demba. Demba I think Hon. Hamat was absent at the time because he had to attend to more grievous matter. And besides, there were representatives of NRP and Hon. Hamat had communicated his position to that body prior. Why would this be a reason for the UDP to be suspicious of Hon. Hamat? I think Demba you used inordinately strong words here and they are malignant as to Hon. Hamat. I suggest you apologise and if you still believe in what you are saying, to temper your counsel or its intended audience. [If he was there he would have seconded Darboe's nomination, or at the very least instruct Dullo Bah to second that nomination.] Demba. And what is wrong with that?????? Why would you then create distrust between the UDP and NRP in this manner Demba? Do you not think your counsel should go to another party that is not UDP? [So he was partly responsible for the confusion at the then NADD nomination.] Demba. Confusion did not play any role in the nadd disintegration, nomination, or other. Every single one of the partners in nadd knew exactly what they were doing. If they do not know what their partners were doing or what their partners' positions were, they should not have proceeded to the nomination phase until they are clear on the parameters of their negotiations. Wouldn't you say? Besides, none of the partners shared with us they were confused at any point in the nadd fiasco. [Also few weeks ago he came out and said they were not interested in any opposition unity, now he is attending UDP congress acting as an allied.] Demba. For the record, Hon. Hamat stated he was not interested in another coalition. He did not say he was not interested in any opposition unity. The two are markedly different. Opposition unity is a benign statement. For example, you could say you are interested in opposition unity but go about your singular business until such unity is appreciated. Besides, unity in purpose and demarche does not a coalition mean. Demba I'm having trouble understanding why you would issue such a counterproductive and insiduous counsel to the UDP. You seem to be groping for reason. Help us understand your reasoning please. [Many people have questioned the relationship between NADD, PDOIS, PPP and NDAM? Why are we not questioning the relationship between UDP and NRP?] Demba. The relationship between UDP and NRP is colegial and healthy. Do you have other questions regarding that relationship Demba? And when you receive an answer from NRP officials and UDP officials, will you believe their answers to your queries of them? WHy would you having questions about the relationship between UDP and NRP degenerate into inuring distrust among the coleagues Demba? [Hamat to me is acting like a spoiler just like Waa Juwara did in NADD.] Demba. Well that is opinion Demba. And it is yours. No one can take that away from you. I guess what I don't understand is why your opinion of Hon. Hamat should be significant to the UDP? [He acts prominent when the NRP is pretty much a one man or two man party...] Demba. Hon. Hamat is a prominent and an extraordinary leader of an opposition party in Gambia Demba. His prominence is no cause for concern or suspicion for the UDP. Or should it be? Yourself, you are a prominent member of our community. Is that reason for your fellow community members to distrust you or be suspicious of you? [I have reservations about a politician like him...] Demba. We understand that Demba. You have shared as much with us. But why should the UDP also have reservations about Hon. Hamat simply because Demba woke up on the wrong side of his bed one day??? I don't get it. [besides what measure does NRP has to gauge its size....?] Demba. Did you ask the NRP??? WIll you be willing to go on the campaign trail with Hon. Hamat to verify for yourself? [The tribal card played during 2006 is non existence...] Demba. What tribal card? You care to share with us what you mean Demba? And why should that be reason for the UDP to be suspicious of Hon. Hamat if your story is to be believed? [as far as am concern... NRP is as small as GMC, NDAM or PDOIS.... ] Demba. Ok. This still is your opinion not based on fact. If it is based on fact, would you share those facts with us? And why would the size of NRP be reason for the UDP to be suspicious of NRP and Hon. Hamat??? [Gambians should never allow themselves to be used by these so called politicians...] Demba. RIght. So we should allow ourselves to be used by Demba instead!!!! Allahu Wakubaru Demba. You are disappointing me my man. [So what we need is serious people who are willing to work towards unity not acting as a big man...] Demba. I see. You want serious people who act like small men. WHere are the women in your equation Demba. And who is this we that needs serious clowns? [individually they are all zip and just wasting time period!!!] Demba. Well if they are all zip, how do you know who should watch whom Demba. You are the most confusing man I have ever met Demba. What??? I hope you had a good reason to malign the character of Hon. Hamat in this manner. Haruna. On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:52 AM, UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote: Ms Sukuna, Thanks for your comments. However, I think Hon. Bah has actually demonstrated how his party platform compliments that of the UDP and verse versa when he talked about an alliance between the two parties whenever necessary. Whatever you may think of his ‘shut-up’ comment which I believe is fitting, the refusal of other opposition leaders to honour UDP’s invitation to grace the Soma Congress is more damaging to the prospect of opposition unity than Hon. Bah's 'shut-up' comment. So please get over it and carry on with the good work you are doing for the Save The Gambia Democracy Project. Kind regards Daffeh On 14/06/2010, Halima Sukuna <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote: Hi Mr. Daffeh, I understand he was an invited guest but, he could have been plugging how his party's platform compliments the UDP's while praising the UDP and both would have benefited without even having to mention a thing about the other parties who for reasons, best known to them, did not attend. In fact, he didn't even mention the name or names of the parties he was referring to which to me is even more of a disrespectful move on this part. I understand being direct but, I believe there is an art to it that gets your message across without demeaning the integrity of the other parties and the people that they represent. Thanks for sharing your perspective, Chris ____________________________________ From: UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > To: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 4:22:08 AM Subject: Re: Hamat Bah at the UDP Congress This was not an occasion for Hon. Bah to educate folks on his party programmes as it was not an NRP platform. He was an invited guest, and he certainly rose up to the occasion with that fitting speech. As for the shut-up comment, I think sometimes it is necessary that leaders are blunt and speak the hard truth even to the disliking of their own supporters. If the leaders of the small parties had honoured the invitation extended to them by the UDP and grace the occasion, they would have had the opportunity to respond to Mr. Bah’s comment. The fact that among all the party leaders, only Mr. Bah honoured UDP's invitation shows that he is more interested in the unity you alluded to than those you seek to defend here. Kind regards Daffeh On 14 June 2010 09:43, Halima Sukuna <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote: "According to the former Upper Saloum strong Parliamentarian, those “small parties” which are making noise should “shut up their mouths” as they don't even pulled 3% of the votes in the past elections. He said the UDP captures over 42% of the votes, and that such a landmark voter achievement on the side of the UDP, had proven the said parties wrong following the collapse of the opposition merger." and my personal favorite after uttering the above. ""He finally called on the UDP supporters to be law abiding and always promote unity, peace, tolerance and unity in the country: (Bolded for emphasis.) NRP-National Reconciliation Party. Rather an ironic name for a party whose leader makes statements like the first one mentioned above against fellow parties in the struggle to liberate a country. I think there should be a disclaimer following the party name if the above statement accurately depicts the feeling of all members of the party. To me, a true leader, one with the heart and soul bent on moving a country forward would not spend a minute trying to downtroaden "smaller parties" who also are in the struggle but, would efficiently try to discuss with their readers how their party can contribute to improving the 42% vote against the current regime. 42%, while significant won't suffice and with elections not too far off, perhaps educating folks on your parties plans might carry more weight than taking unnecessary swipes at other parties. Mr. Bah may want to re-strategize his tactics and take his own advise to heart first before asking others to do what he seemingly has difficulty doing himself. Chris ____________________________________ From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > To: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 5:16:50 PM Subject: Re: Hamat Bah at the UDP Congress Allahu Wakubaru. Integrity and pragmatism displayed so exquisitely. I commend Hon. Hamat Bah for accepting the invitation of the UDP to grace the latter's congress. Like Hon. Cellou Dalein Diallo of Hon. Sidya Touray, there is no better amicus than the one emanating from your peers. I continue to encourage the NRP leadership to be more vigilant in disseminating the message of this wonderful leader during his campaigns and I encourage UDP to set up an Inter-party Liaison committee so that their synergies can be more efficiently brought to bear. This inter-party Liaison committee comprising now of UDP and NRP grassroots organisers should be in continuous conversation with GMC, ppp, nadd, and PDOIS for possible amalgamation of efforts, and must be able to accommodate a full union between any two, three, four, or all constituent parties. I encourage Dullo Bah and NRP leaders in the Diaspora to join us here at Ellen to share their party and her program of activities with us. I am confident that NRP or the UDP can become Gambia's governance party at any moment. Therefore, it will only be proper to prepare yourselves for this prospective governance. I hail Hon. Hamt Bah, Hon. Ousainou Darboe, and their party rank and file and they have my prayer and support until election time. And this is whether they contest any election together or singularly. Its a great day for Gambia. Haruna. -----Original Message----- From: UDP United Kingdom <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) > Sent: Sun, Jun 13, 2010 3:54 am Subject: Hamat Bah at the UDP Congress Breaking News: Gambia: Darboe Is A True Son Of The Gambia—Says Hamat Bah Darboe Is A True Son Of The Gambia—Says Hamat Bah SMALL PARTIES MAKING NOISE SHOULD “SHUT UP.”—HAMAT BAH By Staff Reporter Bakary Gibba, Soma The Party Leader and Secretary General of The National Reconciliation Party (NRP’S) Hamat NK Bah, has described the UDP Leader Lawyer Ousainou Darboe as a “true and devoted son” of The Gambia, who has sacrificed his life for the betterment of the country. Mr. Bah was speaking Saturday June 12th 2010 at the UDP National Congress in Jarra Soma Lower River Region (LRR). He said the “simple reason” for his alliance with the UDP was to unseat the APR Government and restore true democracy and the rule of law in The Gambia—emphasizing that in order for any credible alliance to take place, the minority parties must join the majority, explaining that this was the reason why he reached an opposition merger with the UDP. "We agreed to partner for three elections that is the presidential, parliamentary and the local government elections, which were all successfully held. Am now going with my normal political activities as i planned to tour the whole of the Upper Saloum Constituency,” he said but was quick to add that he would not hesitate to form an alliance with the UDP again whenever the need arises. According to the former Upper Saloum strong Parliamentarian, those “small parties” which are making noise should “shut up their mouths” as they don't even pulled 3% of the votes in the past elections. He said the UDP captures over 42% of the votes, and that such a landmark voter achievement on the side of the UDP, had proven the said parties wrong following the collapse of the opposition merger. Bah who has just returned from an overseas trip told the UDP supporters to remain steadfast and rally behind their leader Lawyer Ousainanou Darboe. He said despite the short notice, upon receipt of the invitation to grace the UDP Congress, he had to travel to Soma to join his colleagues in gracing the Congress. Mr. Bah said like the UDP, his party is equally committed to the restoration of democracy, and rule of law in The Gambia. He said the UDP is the biggest opposition party in the country, and all other political parties should team up with the UDP to dislodge the APRC administration from power. Ousainou Darboe, according to Hamat Bah, is a “sincere and honest guy” who has devoted all his time for Gambia since 1994 and had stood for the country’s liberation from self perpetual rule. He said UDP supporters should be proud of Lawyer Darboe—describing him as a true son of this country— whose legacy is here to stay. He said Darboe is a good role model who should be emulated by our kids and grand kids. He finally called on the UDP supporters to be law abiding and always promote unity, peace, tolerance and unity in the country Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 (Archive on Friday, July 30, 2010) Posted by PNMBAI Contributed by PNMBAI _Return_ (http://www.freedomnewspaper.com/Homepage/tabid/36/Default.aspx) _www.freedomnewspaper.com_ (http://www.freedomnewspaper.com/) Daffeh ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: _http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html_ (http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html) To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: _http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l_ (http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l) To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ 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