Suntou
As a general analysis of the relationship between totalitarianism and liberty, I have great sympathy for your advocacy on behalf of the SIC.
However, from the perspective of democratic pluralism under the rule of law, the SIC is irredeemably anachronistic. In a new Gambia, I cannot see how it should be allowed to survive. We ought to remind ourselves that The Gambia is not an Islamic state.
I would be grateful if you could kindly educate me on why the SIC should not be disbanded as currently constituted. On the evidence, it is now an instrument of oppression, and it worries me that an unaccountable quango oppresses Gambians under colour of law.
Please come back on why we should preserve such a pointless organisation
And as for the so-called Islamic leaders, I see them as ordinary citizens of The Gambia. I revere a human being not on his calling, but on the basis of character.
LJDarbo
From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: On Matters of Clarity - I have no relative in the Hounourable Supreme Islamic Council
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 17 October, 2010, 13:13
I'll develop this topic wider later. The criticism levelled at the SIC leaders have gone beyond the acceptable proportion. We can find elements within certain organisations collaborating with the state against powerless Gambians. However, the manner in which we go after this people requires care.
Our ultimate aim is to undermine the state that is probing all the undemocratic, repressive and totalitarian systems in our country. We need every leader and their followers in this complicated struggle. We cannot afford to alienate groups and their followers by virtue our anger against their actions.
Yes, I hate tyranny, I hate dictatorship and dictators, i dislike all those who collaborate with them. However, I also know that, human beings are decent by nature. They support evil because of underlying social reasons. We have to tackle the master-minder behind the rotten state of affairs. We need Gambian
leaders, groups, individuals, just everyone to come to our bidding. And we cannot achieve that, if we berate the supporters of Yahya with loaded anger and scorn.
Yes, I have in past expressed strong opinion against them. However, we cannot keep using the same methods over and over against a system protected in layers of betrayals, ruthlessness and calamity.
The helpers of Yahya jammah are the bigger victims at the end because, like Ex-Army Chief-of-Staff Lang Tonbomg Tamba, he never belief that, the man he protected with all his might will one day frame him and sentenced him to death.
This is how tricky our country is. Hence, all the hangers on we attack are clueless as to the seriousness of dictatorship. We have to talk to them in ways that will open their eyes to real dangers of perpetuating a criminal inhumane system.
Yes, we should detest all those who assist in one way or the other in maintaining Yahya Jammeh, however, let us lessen
our all out frankness if not, we are in for a long haul. The ones we are attacking now will never join our ranks and those who will replaces them, will hate us even more.
Equally, the SIC's soft spot for Yahya Jammeh cannot be devorce from the wider Gambia society. I'll explain their rationale for not speaking in the open against Yahya Jammeh in due course. I cannot defend an injustice against any Gambian. I have spent a vast amount of time speaking out, matching out and speaking to higher authourities about the Gambian problem. I have contributed and continue to forbid myself vital resources for the democratic process in the Gammbia. Therefore, to remotely associate me with not taking human rights issues seriously is a gross misjudgement.
I have never like being a bystander, hence, I am in completely against tyranny.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:07 PM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Haruna
Your Caesar ought to know if I don't spend more of my time and energy on the democratic process of the Gambia than him, he doesn't spend more of his energies than me. However, like i mention on my blog, what we are dealing with is not an unusual case. Africa has seen all of this before. I will paste that statement later. We should know with our eyes sealed who is capable of undermining the cause to bring peace and democracy to ur folks.
Suntou
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[-----Original Message----- From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 5:15 pm Subject: Re: On Matters of Clarity - I have no relative in the Hounourable Supreme Islamic Council: Ousman, I urge you to hold your horse. Who said, I condone the involvement of politicians in the Bakawsu affairs or even condone his silencing?] Suntou.
Suntou, Caesar did not mean that you condone either of these two evils. Caesar was cautioning you against giving that impression to Yahya and the idiot G-SIC. When a fellow citizen's human rights are being trampled, a wholesale condemnation from his/her fellow citizens against the culprits is warranted. Why? because as Caesar shared it is a slippery slope. The assurances of human rights are far superior to the
salvation peddled by any religion. Why? because human rights are the rights emanating from Allah/God for his creation...Suntou, Caesar, Haruna, Dramane, Fatty, Touray, Fofana, Yahya, Edward, Ravindra, Suddath, Kafelnikov, Dimitry, Abdallah, Paul, Fela, Kukeh, Laye, Ginny,.... you get the point don't you?
[I am providing a general background that, politicians always have hands in the way religious bodies conduct themselves.] Suntou.
We understood that's what you are doing Suntou. When your fellow citizen is being persecuted by politician Jammeh and Religious Body G-SIC, of what value is it for you to tell us the relationship between the two criminals? That was obvious in the crime. And to try to excuse their conduct by telling us that such relationships happen all over the world is disingenuous to say the least Suntou. And I am disappointed in you right now. You have
so much value, so much to offer your fellow man, but your unbridled passion for Islam is clouding your better judgements. Allah will not forgive you for these extremes.
[It may seems to you that, the ones in the U.S are free from state interference but in reality, they are not.] Suntou.
Caesar was sharing with you that the US government has no say in the running or activities of the Baptist Convention. Not that the Baptist Convention is free from state interference. If the Baptist Convention commits a crime against a Baptist, Mormon, Pentecostal, Adventist, Presbyterian, or Catholic, you better believe the state will make it wish it were never born. The state is there for all citizens. Not just the Baptist Convention. Now if you say individual politicians and individual Baptist priests form symbiotic relationships with one another, then yes we agree with you. That is
good and healthy for as long as the two persons do not collude to persecute another politician, priest, or comedian.
[Politicians use religion and religious leaders whenever it suits them.] Suntou.
Just like Religious leaders use Politicians to suit their fancies and wet dreams. That has nothing to do with colluding to commit a crime against your fellow citizen.
[It just happens that, a madman is overstepping the mark in the Gambia.] Suntou.
You mean a mad politician and mad religious leaders in the G-SIC are overstepping their bounds don't you???
[The way the affairs was handled is wrong] Suntou.
Really??? What is wrong about how it was handled?????? There you go again telling us the way the
crime was committed is wrong? Who cares? A crime was committed nonetheless.
[and I felt Bakawsu was mistreated.] Suntou.
You can say that again. Threatening your fellow citizen's human rights and his/her life is a tad bit more than "mistreatment" as you share wouldn't you say?
[However, preachers have a responsibility which most also be observed] Suntou.
A preacher's responsibility is only to his/her congregation. The rest of us could care less what that responsibility is. Imam Ba Kawsu Fofana is not part of Imam Fatty's congregation. Indeed Fofana has his own congregation for whom he has responsibilities. And the rest of us couldn't care less what those responsibilities are either. Where is the G-SIC's congregation? And is part of any of these folks' responsibilities to
Commit crime against another????
[Every situation requires new ways of addressing,] Suntou.
Why would you trouble yourself with finding a new way to handle a situation when you have an old way that is adequate?
[and this case is a first of it kind.] Suntou.
No. It is not the first of its kind. ANd it is not a situation. It is a crime. A garden variety crime committed by uncouth idiots who wield unbridled and unchallenged power over defenseless citizens. End of story.
[We shouldn't go overboard with the attacks on the General SIC.] Suntou.
We are not attacking the G-SIC. We are condemning their big black arses for persecuting our fellow citizen and for fraudulent agency of the Muslim Ummah.
[We may disagree with some members closeness to politicians or the government but that doesn't mean these men have powers to legislate anything.] Suntou.
If the idiots do not have power/authority to legislate anything, why in the world would they
banish Suntou from preaching to his congregation in his own mosque at his own home???? And why would the idiots legislate it as a crime for Caesar and Haruna to purchase cassettes and DVD's of Ba-Kawsu's sermons?????????????????????????? If I were a cassette and DVD entrepreneur, there's an idiot handing me a million dalasis in sales. And guess what I would do with the funds? To defend Imam Ba Kawsu Fofana and establish a foundation in his name to fight religious persecution of Muslims, Christians, HarunaMos, Mormons, Jews, Hindis, Ahmadiyyas, Bahais and all faithfuls of any and all religions of mankind.
[Bakawsu's right to free speech was encroach, but he shouldn't have listen to them because the SIC don't have the power to ban him.] Suntou.
What we are doing here Suntou is establishing Ba-Kawsu's right NOT TO LISTEN TO THEM. We are also trying to have Yahya and the G-SIC idiots pay for their crimes already committed. If the other G-SIC
members have any principles and or good enough balls, doesn't Islam enjoin them in reprimanding Imam Fatty and or Yahya for their crimes??? And in the name of the entire G-SIC??? That is why all of them in the G-SIC are nothing but religious prostitutes. And Allah abhors Prostitution of Islam and Munfiqr.
[The government can with sufficient proof if what he is preaching have the potential to cause unrest. This is happening all over the world. With dictatorship, such allowances is non-existent. This is why, i said the issue is an irrelevant diversion. However, the way certain writers have taken to the topic is unhealthy, this is why i backed Drammeh's statement. Ousman, what we are witnessing is all the result of tyrannical dictatorship, pure and simple.] Suntou.
Suntou, what we are witnessing is all the result of tyrannical dictatorship and religiousity. Pure and simple. Yahya did not issue the ban on Ba-Kawsu. Yahya and the
G-SIC participated in the threatening of Ba-Kawsu's life and property.
[I am not worried about the SIC if there is a real democratic government in place.] Suntou.
Exactly Suntou. But now that you know there isn't a democratic government in Gambia, would you not worry about the GSIC???
[Yahya Jammeh uses every opportunity to be on TV, whether that is buying the dignity of Gambians with public money or acting Imperial in white robes.] Suntou.
Yahya Jammeh's crimes do not ABSOLVE the GSIC of her CRIMES. I don't know how some of you Gambians process information. It is disheartening to see seemingly intelligent folk make arsenine remarks and continue to enable and perpetuate Yahya's crimes. Suntou think for a minute; If Yahya can kill you for the wackiest reasons and I know that. But I bear false witness against you to Yahya just so he has that frivolous reason to kill you, who do you think committed murder
against Suntou??????????????????? Maybe its easier to share banal examples for appreciation. I am not very happy with you at this time Suntou.
[Hence, he is the real problem, all the pouncers we jump on are pawns and actors for him.] Suntou.
Suntou, do you think Yahya can kill a mosquito by himself if his malaria depended on it???????????????????????????????? IT IS THE ENABLERS AND ACCOMPLICES WHO MADE YAHYA WHAT HE IS. DON'T YOU GET IT????????
Haruna.
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ousman Ceesay <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Suntou,
I don't know about the Archbishop nomination in the UK and what the prime minister's role was in it, but I will hasten to add that in the United States, there is no collusion between the Baptist Convention and the government. The government in this country plays no role in how the baptist convention or another religion conducts their affairs. What transpired during the Bakawsu affair is a blatant encroachment of state powers into religion. It is shameful that people of religious dispensation had to use the powers of the state to silence another citizen. Comparing it to situations that prevail in the United States, England or Italy is disingenuous to say the least. If you condone what the SIC with the aid of the state did to Bakawsu, I will venture to question your commitment to the rule of law. If you believe in the free speech rights and association of the citizenry, you may abhor
what Bakawsu has to say or how he practice Islam, but will not condone or defend muzzling him. Once you start making exceptions, you are embarking on a slippery slope. Today it is Bakawsu, tomorrow it will be somebody you agree with. You are forewarned.
regards,
Ousman.
http://gambian.blogspot.com
From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 11:38:23 AM
Subject: Re: On Matters of Clarity - I have no relative in the Hounourable Supreme Islamic Council
Drammeh,
Notwithstanding our differences, you have said the right things in the message. The so-called difference is an irrelevant diversion. In every country, politicians don't leave religious leaders alone, be in Rome, the U.S, England etc. In fact, the British Prime Minister approve the nomination of the ArchBishop, likewise the several Baptise Conventions across America. The other way of controlling religious bodies is through the Charitable regulations. Hence, the SIC cannot operate without the government's interferences. Whichever government is in place, the SIC will most work with them, just like the Christian Council, and other religious bodies.
My little contribution on the subject will be posted later.
God Bless
Suntou
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Muhammed Drammeh <[log in to unmask]" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear All,
I appeal to all of you to limit our issues on politics and politic leaders noit because of nepotism or any other selfish reasons but because of the sensitivity of religion.
It is very easy for dishonest elements like Jammeh and co to exploit the situation.
The Honourable religious leaders may have their disagreement and our role is to promote the peace between them. Our honourable religious leaders may act to the dissatisfaction of some of us but they will never do so intentionally.
The wicked dishonest, big munafiq and iblis is Jammeh the crook. He should have maintain a neutral role and should not even get involve. He could have invited them in private and resolve the matter in private. No no no, disnonest crack head Jammeh choose to make a political capital out of it.
Wicked Jammeh went as far as insulting the Honourable Ba Kawsu Fofana. Lying Jammeh even went as far as claiming to have more knowledge than the honourable Ba Kawsu Fofana.
I have a £20, 000.00 offer for Jammeh to recite surah Tauba. Munafiq Jammeh and lying , disrespectful Jammeh cannot even recite Surah
Fatihah properly.
Arrogant big headed Jammeh choose the occassion on national TV to insult the Hourable Ba Kawsu Fofana.
Arrogant Jammeh lied before the whole world that he can cure AIDS. How can such a lying rat be better than the hounourable Ba Kawsu Fofana.
The honourable Ba Kawsu Fofana went to state House with his honourable paternal uncle and he was merely being respectful to his paternal uncle and that is reason for his silence.
Who the held does
Jammeh think he is?
The time is right to kick this big bafoon out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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