Hahaha ha ha ha oh my God,I cannot stop laughing. Brother Haruna, all is understood and I must ofcause commend your mastery of eloquence in digesting all points. Thanks and no comments I hope we can now move on to more partinent issues.
king
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:13:09 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Uncle Haruna, Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
To: [log in to unmask]
Uncle Mass, I think you misunderstand me. I am eminently aware of your experience and familiarity with Gambian politics. You will undoubtedly agree with me that Gambian politics, like the politics of all other nations is evolutive and dynamic. Neanmoins, I am not even questioning your understanding of that dynamism.
Allow me to go to your notes proper in order that we may yield some convergence of thought.
[Subject:
Re: Uncle Haruna, Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
From:
Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:
The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 12 Aug 2011 23:16:34 +0000
Haruna, I did not join Gambia L to beaf up with anyone on what any
fanatics do throwing missiles.] KBM.
Understood Mr. Mass. There are no missiles here at Ellen and each Eleanor has a missile defense system of his or her own. That is the beauty of Ellen. I do not argue gratuitously. I am extremely too busy for that.
[I love to exchange ideas and not the
otherway round.] KBM.
We at Ellen love to exchange ideas also. You are in good company.
[I know Gambia matters to you or any of your socalled
leutinants but mark you if I did not know the Gambia more than you true
but would you say you know the Gambia more than me?] KBM.
I do not claim to know Gambia more than anyone. Neither here on Ellen nor elsewhere outside of Ellen. That would be presumptuous of me. On the other hand, I would acknowledge that you probably know Gambia matters more than myself. However here we speak of a matter of Gambia opposition political parties and the need and desires of Gambians. That is where you seemed to have lost me.
[I belief your have
an answer to that your. So no need to further argue over such.] KBM.
I don't understand.
[What is incomprehensible about my notion that "UDP would merge with any political party even on an equal footing?] KBM.
What was incomprehensible about this statement from you is the following:
UDP is on record that it is not seeking a MERGER with other opposition political parties.
PDOIS is on record that a MERGER of political parties is antithetical to its raison d'etre.
NRP has never advocated for a MERGER with any political party
ppp abhors a MERGER with any political party.
GMC has never advocated nor is interested in a MERGER with any political party.
And because you were speaking on the behalf of UDP, I could not understand when the party took that position and when that position was communicated to its potential MERGING parties. Or am I to understand that this statement from you constitutes that new position?????????? That is one of the things that confused me uncle Bamba. I was almost shocked that the UDP could have had this position and allowed us to go through the rigamarole of alliance-making for nought.
[If
they on the otherside still thinks we should debate important issues
with open media, I said no problem for as far as I am concern any
possible merger is better than being under the iron yoke of the monster.] KBM.
Uncle Bamba, I understand this to be your opinion and I have no problem with that. I also agree with you that a MERGER is far superior to remaining under the yoke of Yahya the monster. No argument there. You have just relieved part of my confoundment here. That is that it is not the UDP's position to form a MERGER with another political party. That is Uncle Mass' personal idea/opinion/suggestion.
[I
tell you my possition so that you know.] KBM.
I know now uncle Mass. When you first stated this, you had mentioned that the UDP will form the merger. That was why I was thoroughly confused.
[Oh am I no longer entitled to my
own opinion because I joined your L?] KBM.
In fact, at Ellen, we love folk who have and share their own opinions. It is when it is not clear whether folk are stating a particular party's position or their own opinions that we get a bit confused. By all means, please share your opinions with us. We will share our opinions with you also. That is the value of Ellen. I am glad you joined us and I want to do all I can to make your stay as pleasurable as possible.
[I would want to see a union of
oppositions but not like that of Nadd ok?] KBM.
NADD was a conversation of Alliance formation. It turned into a UNION of opposition parties for the limited term of 5 years, by fiat (registration) and that was why the by-elections had to occur. I understand now that uncle Bamba Mass desires a union of opposition parties in a different manner. Although I do not share your desire, I accept it as your desire. And I do not wish to argue its merits or demerits.
[For me Nadd was a complete
farce and built on muddy foundations thats why it never got grounds to
stand on.] KBM.
OK. In my opinion, the NADD conversations were genuine. They transmogrified into a circus of charlatanry and disingenuous design. Here we have a slightly different take on NADD. ANd that is ok.
[Your assertion that no one knows what Gambians need is
totally untrue.] KBM.
My assertion was that even if you think you know what 1.5 million Gambians need, it will be highly presumptuous of you to say so. A leader of the people or an aspiring leader does not claim to know what the people need. Even my doctor doesn't know what I need. You will agree with me that if you say Gambians need a MERGER of opposition political parties and those parties form a MERGER, there will still be Gambians who will vote for APRC because that is what they NEED. Consider that for a moment. There will be other Gambians who will abstain from voting because they NEED neither.
[But Come think of it if we don't know what Gambians need
then what is the essence of debate here Haruna or sheick of the? tell
me professor] KBM.
I am not a professor yet uncle Mass. And don't be cheeky with me. I am Sheriff of Ellen. Duke of McCarthy Sq. Whether we know what Gambians need or not, we will still share ideas here on Ellen. I do not debate online. Never have, never will. Our desire and privilege to share ideas here on Ellen is mutually exclusive of our knowledge of what other NEEDS.
[I have been a very keen follower of the L since its
inseption but only chose to join now to share with you guys] KBM.
And we appreciate you company uncle Mass. I for one will benefit greatly by your esteem company here. All the more reason why you would not want us to go away with the wrong understanding of what you share with us.
[but mark you
if you or anyone thinks I don't know then who else does?] KBM.
The last time I heard "Mark you" was when sheriff Rango was giving a lecture in the saloon. No one really knows what 1.5 million Gambians need. I could hazard as to what they may desire but I couldn't tell you I know what even a thousand Gambians need. I don't even know what my mother needs. I know some of what she would like however.
[My knowledge
of the Gambian politics starts since the early 80s and since then I have
been a politician.] KBM.
I was eminently aware of that. And I respect you for your past and possible future service to our country uncle Mass. No honest Gambian should be in any doubt about that.
[if I don't know Gambian politics then no one knows
it better Haruna.] KBM.
Your demarche in Gambian politics is not in question sir. It is your avowed knowledge of what Gambians NEED that is questionable. And no one else knows that much less to know it BETTER than your good self.
[Am no kid and no one in the L can lecture me on issues
on Politics in the Gambia.] KBM.
My lecture fees are $300/hr for PDOISards and $100/hr for UDPeds. Free for NRPiers, pppers, and GMCees. Your fee is therefore discounted. If you place a deposit of $50, I will reserve a spot for you.
[If any group think they are running the
show with the way opposition decisions in the Gambia are divulged, then
that group has all along been day dreaming.] KBM.
I agree with you uncle Mass. The only group that wants to be a peeping tom is STGDP and Jengfann(Politburo).
[Sir thats my position and
I would never argue over it.] KBM.
I would encourage you to demonstrate to them that you wouldn't divulge opposition decisions to them.
[You too are entitled to your.] KBM.
Right.
[Thats the
beauties of my party UDP.] KBM.
That's also the beauty of Ellen. Of which I am Sheriff.
[we may differ in opinions and Ideas but when
we discuss all normally agrees with the majority and thats the same with
our Party Leader Alhagie Ousainou Darboe.] KBM.
Yes. It is expected that majority opinion carries the vote in democratic establishments. That is the bane of my life uncle Mass. I encourage you to visit with us at www.thegdp.org when time permits you.
Thank you sir. And please understand I am not questioning your knowledge of Gambia or your politics in Gambia. And I appreciate your company here at Ellen.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: thegdproject <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:33 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Uncle Haruna, Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
Mr. Mass,
You mixed so many things up I have no clue what your position is. Please do not tell us what Gambians need because neither you nor anyone here at Ellen knows what 1.5 million Gambians need. Just tell us where you stand and that will be enough.
You asserted that Gambians need a merger of political parties. How do you know that is what we need or even want??? This business of saying "This is what Gambia/Gambians need or want" is both disingenuous and dishonest. Especially when you and I are just two of those Gambians.
Further, this statement of yours is incomprehensible: "UDP
would merge with any political party even on an equal footing no
problem. But we all know the fact some short sighted would find hard to
swallow is UDP is the bigger Party and cannot be compared to PDOIS in
terms of size THAT IS THE FACT take it or leave it."
If you or UDP is willing and able to merge with another party on an equal footing, then the idea of UDP's superlative size as compared to PDOIS or any other party now becomes insignificant don't you think??? The reason is because if a merger on an equal footing is your desire for UDP, and you then re-iterate the UDP's superlative size to your merger partners, they would not take you to be honest or really committed to a merger. They will take you to mean a corporate merger where the larger unit gobbles up the smaller units, some non-performing units are eliminated or sidelined, and the new structure takes the form of the larger unit - that ordinarily initiates the merger. How is this different from UDP's desired form of coalition - Party-led?????????????????
We must outline clearly what we want and not try to obfuscate our real meanings and intent. It is not helpful nor healthy when PDOISards do it, and it sure aint so when UDPeds do it. It smacks of the kind of insincerity that scuttled the NADD talks. Let us be straightforward with each other.
You claim that 80% of Gambians are illiterate or are not aware of the policy papers of the parties or even what we discuss here at Ellen. However you were able to discern that those Gambians desire a merger on an equal footing but with the recognition that UDP is larger in size than PDOIS. How do you figure that??? Once UDP decides to merge with PDOIS, UDP's superlative size now should become inconsequential and should not figure in the MERGER talks. You do not have any better understanding of the Gambian people than Dad Nyang or my humble self, or indeed anyone else here at Ellen. Let us speak clearly and above all be honest. We do not have much time for obfuscations.
Otherwise, I love you.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Uncle Haruna, Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
I belief some of you socalled buhabas of the L are out of touch with the realities on the ground in the Gambia. Surfice it to say Gambian want a united merger to flush the tyrant out. The truth is it has to be done in a way acceptable to the Gambian voters not us on the L. Gambian want a united Opposition but feet dragging with endless agendas would not cure the deadly virus. Meeting each other face to face and talk like men would.
Brother Nyang maybe you are off the point in my opinion, I know what you guys are talking about but what you are not talking about is even what is more important to Gambian voters than you think. The importance of Halifa and Ousainou meeting as men eye to eye and ironing out issues before it is too late and we would come back argueing and finger pointing Gambian don't need that Lets first meet before you come with endless agendas to people that can barely read or write. Who would read those agendas to them and how do you expect response?
Meet and tour the country with what ever proposal one may have and table it with the people Period! Vissions and Agendas are for those who can share with you not only for the literate group remembering the fact that literate Gambia is 22% of the voting age Gambian how about the other 78%?
Most of you have genuine ideas for the Gambia but those ideas must be deceminated to Gambians who should benefit from such ideas not only on the Gambia L. UDP would merge with any political party even on an equal footing no problem. But we all know the fact some short sighted would find hard to swallow is UDP is the bigger Party and cannot be compared to PDOIS in terms of size THAT IS THE FACT take it or leave it.
king
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 07:14:06 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Uncle Haruna, Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
To: [log in to unmask]
And who is that Baks Yamba? And how dare you add Nyang to this frigging name of Yamba? Remember you only talk about people here on the L when you sure they are with us so they can afford their right of response.
Uncle, don't tell me your are loosing your eye sight because of old age for you not to see what your King Sering Bamba Mass has shared with us on this merger thing. Am afraid you will loose your position of Sheriff of the L if you confirm my fears.
Stop the squealing my dear uncle. I am one of PDOIS and i am here advocating against such an anti democratic move. We need no merger but an alliance.
Nyang
--- On Thu, 8/11/11, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [G_L] Dad Nyang / Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:36 AM
Dad Modou Nyang, you're not Baks Yamba sugar neba die by any chance are you???????????????
Secondly, I don't think anyone is talking about a merger. Only PDOIS floated that idea under NADD when PDOIS wanted to subsume the other parties. I haven't heard a more cacamayme idea in my life. If we talk about any merger, it would be either UDP or NRP subsuming PDOIS. This is precisely why I was at pains to distinguish between coalition and alliance because I knew we had impressionable minds here. I was afraid Yero was leaning toward a merger with his push for a UNITED opposition. You can be united in purpose in an ALLIANCE or a COALITION. You do not need a merger for UNITY of PURPOSE.
Now allow me to continue my conversation with Baks Nyang Yamba sugar neba die.
Haruna.
Subject:
Re: Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
From:
Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:
The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:24:27 +0100
To start with,
there is not argument about the UDP's tally of votes since 1996.
Notwithstanding, however, it is also clear that there is a much larger
number of voters who are have never and is not likely to vote UDP in any
subsequent election in the Gambia. So, Bamba Mass, the talk here is not
about your party's tally of votes in 1996, 2001 and even 2006. What we
are talking about is what formula do we present to the voters to convince them they should vote Jammeh out on November 24.
Having
said that i would want to register my disagreement with the recurring
use of the "merger" by some
people when talking about forming a united front of the opposition
parties. I personally do not think that there is need for a merger of
the opposition parties for them to contest against Jammeh. A merger
could have
been necessary in 2005/2006 as a tactic to preserve the gains that were
being registered then under NADD. We are no more in that situation. What
we need right now is an alliance of opposition parties to help change
the rotten system in Banjul.
How
do we ally to face Jammeh and his APRC after 17 solid years of
consolidating power is the task before us. My party PDOIS has put
forward a set of proposals and it is also necessary for the UDP to so
similar. Whether they put it out for
the general public's view is up to them but they have to put pen to
paper their wish to the other potential partners.
Some silly people can continue with their skewed views of what are international standards of negotiating coalitions/alliances.
Nyang
-----Original Message-----
From: thegdproject <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:01 pm
Subject: Thank you Bamba Mass for these figures. I have been after Suntou for them for the longest.
I shall now continue my conversations with Baks Yamba sugar Neba die.
Haruna.
Subject:
Re: PDOIS Central ,Commitee statement On United Opposition. The Long Road To
From:
Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:
The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 11 Aug 2011 01:07:36 +0000
I totally agree with suntu, Gambia is bigger than any political party or
individual person and if anyone thinks you can use any medium that has
no value to Gambians to fool people or confuse a few, then you must be
living in a fools paradise. UDP's track records are there in the open to
speak for it and when one looks at the trend of voter percentage, UDP
had more percentage when it stood alone than when it merged with other
parties. Just take a look at the tables below
In 1996 Presidential elections,
Registered
Voters
446,541
Total Votes (Voter
Turnout)
394,537
(88.4%)
Invalid/Blank
Votes
43 [See Note
Below]
Total Valid
Votes
394,494
Number of
Votes
% of
Votes
Yahya Jammeh
(APRC)
220,011
55.77%
Ousainou Darboe
(UDP)141,38735.84%
Hamat Bah
(NRP)
21,759
5.52%
Sidia Jatta
(PDOIS)
11,337
2.87%
Now look at the percentatge with a UDP-PPP-GPP coalition compared to when UDP has it alone?
18
October 2001 Presidential Election
Registered
Voters
509,301
Total Votes (Voter
Turnout)
Not Available (approx.
90%)
Invalid/Blank
Votes
Not
Available
Total Valid
Votes
458,533
Candidate (Party) [Coalition]
Number of
Votes
% of
Votes
Yahya Jammeh
(APRC)
242,302
52.84%
Ousainou Darboe
(UDP) [UDP-PPP-GPP]
149,448
32.59%
Hamat Bah
(NRP)
35,671
7.78%
Sheriff Mustapha
Dibba (NCP)
17,271
3.77%
Sidia Jatta
(PDOIS)
13,841
3.02%
NADD
never went to the 2006 Presidentials polls united and even with UDP
out of NADD, they were able to do far far better than NADD
22 September 2006 Presidential
Election [Results by Administrative
Area]
Registered
Voters
670,336
Total Votes (Voter
Turnout)
Not Available (approx.
59%)
Invalid/Blank
Votes
Not
Available
Total Valid
Votes
392,685
Candidate (Party) [Coalition]
Number of
Votes
% of
Votes
Yahya Jammeh
(APRC)
264,404
67.33%
Ousainou Darboe
(UDP) [ARC]
104,808
26.69%
Halifa Sallah
(PDOIS) [NADD]
23,473
5.98%
Those alledging of a fall in the UDP percentage
have failed to realise that even the APRC with everything at their
disposals vote buyings, intimidations, and cheatings they were never
able to secure more 300,000 Votes in a country of more than 670,336
registered nvoters in the last presidential elections Lets ask our
selves why more than half the voter population want Jammeh out of power?
I BELIEF THE ANSWER MIGHT BE IN A COMPLETE UNITED OPPOSITION
If
now all Gambians want oppositions to come together as one united
front to make such dream a reality, I don't understand why some just
think is either people go with their idea or nothing? It is good for our
country for a united opposition but those fools who think they can
undermine genuine Gambian efforts for the removal of this tyrant
through the ballot box just by zig zagging their turns in confusing
themselves because they cannot fool those Gambians some of us think are
illiterates. Those Gambians are more aware of what they want than we
knew of them. The results will tell . If we want Yahya in power just
because some don't want to see Ousainou Darboe lead a coalition, well
so be it Ousainou has only this elections maybe but a time will come
when someone else's turn will surely emerge and when that time comes we
shall all face it together. Gambia belong to all her citizens and all
voices count. Let that message be clear.
Thanks Bamba.x
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい