-----Original Message-----
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 6:34 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Rene / [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point
Newspaper
Brother Rene,
"Please do not compound your problems. Just apologize and we move on so
I can wring your small neck. I'm waiting for you on the other side of
the apology."
[Haruna, why do you want me to apologize for an observation that I
made. I made a general statement] Rene.
Yes. You made an OBSERVATION in a general statement that transgresses on the JOLA MINORITY. That is why I think
you should apologize. A thief makes an observation before he/she steals. A rapist makes an observation before he/she rapes.
It is indeed the mind that conjures up an observation that is inimical to a whole group of people that purveys exclusion and
discrimination, or at the very least encourages another to act on such observation. Rene, we must not extend my plea for an
apology from you. If you do not think you are in error (if of observation), please disregard. However, I will not consider breaking
bread with you until you reconnoitre.
[and you should try to understand that statement within the context that
I made it.] Rene.
Yes. I really understood the context in which you made it Rene. That is why I thought you made the observation in error and
inadvertently.
[I made a distinction between opposition to a political dispensation that
is characterized by principle and purpose; and opposition to a political
dispensation that is not characterize by principle and purpose, but merely
by a desire to change the present leadership] Rene.
I noticed that distinction you tried to make. You went further than making this distinction. Read your notes again. What you did
after making the distinction is that you extrapolated the opposition to the present monstrous leadership to the JOLA MINORITY.
Please read your notes again. And I want to share something with you at least about tribal disharmony. When even one individual
takes umbrage and perceives tribalism, it doesn't really matter what philosophy underlies the utterance or action. What is
advisable is to apologize and if you did not intend the harm perceived, re-phrase or redo the culprit statement or action. You are
not making any sense in your explanations and recalcitrance to reassure us that your intentions were benign. How can you excuse
a malignant statement or action away by delineating the process it took you (observation) to get there in the first place??? It doesn't
matter Rene. It is the place we are worried about. Not how you got there. There are a zillion ways to get there. They all use
OBSERVATION and POETRY.
[because it is in the wrong hands. In the hands of a person who is in
the minority. "Yahya's hands is the wrong hands. NOT THE JOLA MINORITY.
Every Gambian understand who is the wrong hands in Gambia. Why would you
unduly extrapolate that to mean The JOLA MINORITY's hands should not be
entrusted with the governance of Gambia???? Can you trust the hands of
the other minorities?????? Can you trust the hands of the majorities????]
Haruna.
[Well, you are making that determination and that distinction. There
are others who are not making that determination and that distinction.] Rene.
And why would you take it upon yourself to share the contrarian determination? Of Other? Why would you not let those others
share or make that determination???? Why would you burden yourself thusly Rene??????????????????? I couldn't care less
if you think Mathew or Haruna are thinking the contrarian determination and distinction. Let Mathew and Haruna make that
contrarian determination. I will share something else with you while I'm here Rene; In Rwanda, everyone sort of thought that the
other folk of other tribes were always scheming to gain an unfair advantage over them and their tribe. For centuries. However, it
took the Radio Milles Collines and odious journalists to certify that by their incendiary broadcasts. What they did was elevate folk
suspicions of each other (whether actually true or not) to the crescendo. And you know the rest of that story. If you tell me there
are folk in Gambia who hold tribalist views against another tribe, you could be correct. But if you share with me that that tribalist
is that the other tribe must be excluded from governance of the nation, you all of a sudden have interjected yourself in the place
of the vrai tribalist. Perhaps he or she understood that acting on his/her odious thought is actually a crime of immense proportion
and as long as the thought remains inside of him/her it is not a crime. Why would you want to be the thought police????? If you
come to my home where I keep a gun, you took the gun without my permission or knowledge and stab a kid on the street, would
you excuse your crime by saying Haruna wanted to stab the kid all along but he was afraid to do it himself, so I did it for him,
therefore I'm innocent??? What kinda cacamayme is that????????????? Please do not belabour this point. I have many a poet
and playwright as friend. You are not producing a play or a poem Rene. You were responding to Mathew's disdainful comments
about PDOIS and Hon. Halifa and you went too far to inure tribalism in Mathew. Well it backfired. Why would you even try to
share what you think Mathew meant to say???????????????????? I mean its not like Mathew could be accused of brevity and
and economy of words. If you read Shaky Shaky's comedy of errors, it is exactly this parallax of folly and extreme vengeance that
he warns us of.
[I do not unduly make the extrapolation, it has already been extrapolated.] Rene.
WHere??? and by Whom?????
[Some of our opinions and political commentaries are littered in such
extrapolations.] Rene.
You see what I'm talking about by COMPOUNDING YOUR PROBLEMS Rene don't you???????? Well you are telling me that
you are aware of profuse discriminatory and exclusionist comments in our global opinions and narratives. WHen you perceived one
such, did you challenge the utterrer or de-minimis express hallmark disdain for such????? Did you ever ask for an apology from
the culprit if indeed it were UN-INTENTIONAL??????? Remember I'm only asking you to apologize because I think this was
inadvertent. If I ever thought it was intentional or a conclusion from your earnest OBSERVATION of other, I would not have bothered
myself. And if Kukeh did not reprimand the wrong party, I would have let Ansu's repulsion instruct your conduct. I will instruct myself
on how to deal with you in the future depending on your reaction or response to Ansu's repulsion.
[With the kind of political dispensation that I support, all minority
and majority groups would be entrusted with the governance of Gambia.] Rene.
We wouldn't know that would we???? And you're not doing yourself any favors by simply refusing to ammend our misunderstanding.
You will understand that even if you claim you support Allah's party, you are only sharing with us what you admire. Not what you
do or say in that party. Therefore that would be terribly insignificant to your fellow citizen or man. He/she could also swear to you
the same about his/her party. Here we merely point out to you a possible aversion of other and one way to remedy that. We are not
seeking to know which party you support or are a member of. Do you not know there could be another Rene in the APRC, NRP, UDP,
ppp, PDOIS, or GMC?????? Well you will have informed them that the behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. Would you do your fellow a good
turn then Rene????? The reason why someone calls themselves a muslim or christian is because they desire to emulate the
examples of Muhammad and Jesus Christ. Me, I make my mould. And I take responsibility for my actions. That is why I consider
my actions toward my fellow profusely and I am a quick learner. I want you to be better than me. You demonstrate enormous
promise Rene. Don't let this apparent misspeak govern your immense success.
[In fact, minority or majority groupings would be so insignificant in
the process, it would not be discernible who is minority or majority.] Rene.
I heard you Rene. Now how about doing this here problem right so you can move on to demonstrate the great person you really
are???????????????
[It would all be about issues. Issues, Issues and Issues. The politics
of issues.] Rene.
Ok OK. Trust me Rene, I understand. That is why I think this was inadvertent error. If it was Haruna you're trying to convince,
you need not worry. Haruna judges from actions. Not everyone in this world is like Haruna. When I looked at your comment, I
understood that if this were your personal feelings and OBSERVATIONS, you will never be in a position where you could determine
which minority or majority governs any nation. So to avail yourself the possibility of that honour, I thought you should apologize.
That's it. Nothing else. So please do not think I am just asking you to apologize for fancy. I am on record for sharing that the most
listless idiot is one who apologizes willy nilly at the drop of a hat. But you have seen me apologize here on several occasions right?
So if I didn't think it were valuable for you Rene, I would not have urged it. Remember, at this point it doesn't really matter how you
explain the error away or whether you do not think you were in error. That is the purview of your fellow citizen and the JOLA
MINORITY. Do you realize that you not only aversed the JOLA, you darn near excluded all MINORITY TRIBES of GAMBIA.
Possibly your own friggin self. That should explain it were INADVERTENT. So don't make it seem INTENTIONAL when it could not
possibly be Rene. And I'm really tired of throwing you lifelines.
"Please don't compound the misspeak. Instead of make "the wrong hands"
more explicit, you introduced, inadvertently I believe, the ire of
odious tribalism Rene. Take it from a brother. Please." Haruna.
[Well, Haruna, I believe the smell of tribalism was already there. I didn't
introduced it. I only observed it.] Rene.
And if I agree with you for a moment that the "SMELL" was already there, why didn't you see if there's a fire behind the smell
and help to put it out instead of attaching a hose to the smell and bring it into our living rooms. What is wrong with you Rene. I
couldn't care less about the SMELL. I got smell in my sewer. You don't see me go down there and route the smell back to the
bathroom. This is what we want to do about Tribalism, rape, thievery, murder, abductions, etc. Keep them at bay de-minimis, or
eradicate them if and when we can. I don't friggin believe you Rene.
["We all misspeak once in a while. The gravitas of a man is in the
recognition and correction of misspeak. You are better than this. And
plus, your problem is not with me. You can handle me very well as you
have demonstrated in the past. The problem is with the JOLA MINORITY of
GAMBIA to whom you owe apology."] Haruna.
[Haruna, we can agree to disagree on this.] Rene.
Hangh??????????????? I wish it were that trivial for you Rene. Really.
[You know that I have no compunction to apologize for something done wrong;
neither if I say something untoward.] Rene.
Wait a minute Rene. No one should have any aversion to apologizing when you do or say wrong. And things don't just become
wrong until they unduly affect your fellow or yourself. So it is immaterial to say you have no problem apologizing when you have
aversed even ONE person and they share with you that you have aversed them. Your aversion or lack thereof to apology is
demonstrated by unique events. This is because you don't do wrong all of the time and a perceived wrong could be inadvertent.
This is just such a time when you are afforded an opportunity to make an inadvertent wrong right. At the rate you're going, I'd say
you risk committing a crime against yourself. Atel PDOIS nkol kangol jaata baake. Doina sekk. A bifosay una crase. And remember,
Ansu could have just kept quiet and not share his repulsion with you. Would you not think that by speaking up, he offered you a
golden opportunity to shine???????????????? Men.
[But I believe I can express an observation.] Rene.
Yes Rene. You can always express an observation. WHen you share what you THINK other folk are THINKING, you are not making
an OBSERVATION. You are EXTRAPOLATING. DIVINING. Perhaps poetically expressing what you are thinking yourself. That is
called Extra Sensory Perception ESP. It is this doubt that I wish you to erase.
[You can disagree with me. And I take your disagreement in good faith.] Rene.
What??????? It is not my purview to agree or disagree with you about such Rene. Trust me.
[Don't extend your misgivings to the Jola Minority.] Rene.
OK.
[I did not do them any wrong nor do I owe them any apology.] Rene.
Very well. Maybe you do not understand that the misgivings are not only to the JOLA MINORITY. They are to all
conscientious Gambians. You will understand that there are Gambians of other tribes who have relations within the Jola
tribe and vice versa. Maybe you didn't know that. I am one of those Gambians.
[I hold them in the same esteem and regard as all other ethnic
groupings.] Rene.
I understand.
[Even if you and I try to massage this to become benign, the
perception you will have left in the minds of most Gambians will have
been one of an unapologetic tribalist. Please consider carefully.] Haruna.
[I don't know why you want to manage an observation that you may
consider tribalist.] Rene.
It WAS NOT AN OBSERVATION RENE. You are not a serious man are you. And if you read my notes you will understand
that I was discouraging YOU from trying to lure me into MASSAGING the error instead of apologizing and reassuring us it was
inadvertent. Hell I don't even have time to manage others' idiocies. I thought you are capable of nurturing harmonious communal
relations Rene. Forgive me.
[Let the statement stand for what it is, and it can leave in the minds of
most Gambians who the unapologetic tribalists really are.] Rene.
I am one Gambian in whose mind it shall remain that Rene is an unapologetic tribalist. And I shall not allow you to be in charge
of determining the ware of the JOLA MINORITY in Gambia.
[I have considered it carefully.] Rene.
Very well Rene.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Rene / [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point Newspaper
Brother Rene,
Please do not compound your problems. Just apologize and we move on so I can wring your small neck. I'm waiting for you on the other side of the apology.
Yahya's hands is the wrong hands. NOT THE JOLA MINORITY. Every Gambian understand who is the wrong hands in Gambia. Why would you unduly extrapolate that to mean The JOLA MINORITY's hands should not be entrusted with the governance of Gambia???? Can you trust the hands of the other minorities?????? Can you trust the hands of the majorities???????? Please don't compound the misspeak. Instead of make "the wrong hands" more explicit, you introduced, inadvertently I believe, the ire of odious tribalism Rene. Take it from a brother. Please. We all misspeak once in a while. The gravitas of a man is in the recognition and correction of misspeak. You are better than this. And plus, your problem is not with me. You can handle me very well as you have demonstrated in the past. The problem is with the JOLA MINORITY of GAMBIA to whom you owe apology.
Haruna. Even if you and I try to massage this to become benign, the perception you will have left in the minds of most Gambians will have been one of an unapologetic tribalist. Please consider carefully.
Subject:
Re: [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point Newspaper
From:
[log in to unmask]
Reply-To:
The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:06:10 -0400
Haruna,
"When opposition to a political dispensation is not characterizedby a sense of principle and purpose; when such opposition is merely thedesire to change the leadership of the country, because it has falleninto the wrong hands (into the hands of the JOLA minority), thepolitical narrative becomes an intensive campaign of vilification,demagoguery against the status quo, and criticisms just about anythingand anyone who stands in the way of bringing down such a leadership."
The above statement in quotes is a general statement, an observation if you will. It can also represent a political constituency that exhibits such tendencies. I wrote it as an observation which stands independent of the other remarks I have made. I presume it attracted the attention it did because of the remarks I put in brackets. But without the remarks in brackets the connotation " it has fallen into the wrong hands" wouldn't be quite explicit. It could mean falling into the wrong hands of anyone.
However, putting those remarks in brackets, I admit tends to make the statement "it has fallen into the wrong hands" more explicit. Into the hands of the JOLA minority. But is the statement true? Do some people tend to see it that way?
Rene
-----Original Message-----
From: thegdproject <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 12:25 am
Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point Newspaper
With all due respect brother Rene, how can you glean the following conclusion from any or all of the body of material Mathew has written?;
".... because it (the govt) has fallen into the wrong hands (into the
hands of the JOLA minority)..." Rene
It is inexcusable. Just apologize and we move forward. Frankly I think it is unlike you. Perhaps your disdain of Mathew got the better of you temporarily. I have been and I continue to read Mathew. Even I take him to be a rebel of all and any, including, no cause. But that he obviates Jolas from governing Gambia?????????????? That is too extreme even for Mathew.
Just apologize and let's go. You have bigger problems than this misspeak of yours.
Haruna.
-----Original Message-----
From: rebadjan <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point Newspaper
I wish to acknowledge that mails are coming to me in a filter, and I
am not getting the response of people until I opened another mail that
bears the same headline.
Now, to come to the contention that Ansu raised, I am not making any
fabrications against Mathew. This is how he comes across to me through
the many articles and opinions he has shared, that I have read. I am
the least interested about tribal politics or its insinuations, but I
can identify one when I see it.
My approach and my orientation to Gambian political issues, may be
completely different from the one that you profess; and given that now
I may be willing to respond to some of these political issues, we can
argue and debate the merits and demerits of these issues without being
acrimonious. I await your contentions and I will respond to them.
Rene
-----Original Message-----
From: Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] Mathew K on Coalition and the Point Newspaper
Ansu,
Please let every G-Ler argue his/her case without being disagreeable. It
makes us a better community.
Malanding Jaiteh
On 8/11/2011 4:52 PM, Ansumana Bojang wrote:
> Rene,
>
> ".... because it (the govt) has fallen into the wrong hands (into the
hands of the JOLA minority)..." Rene
>
> Please spare us with your tribal insinuations and stick to the facts
and realities in Gambia and not your fantasies. If do not know Matthew
Jallow is no fan of UDP and Darboe. Go back to the archives and
apprise yourself of this. So, please read his article with some
objectivity and perhaps you could learn something; however little.
>
> I am sick of some of you guy's tribalism here. And you consider
yourselves the learned bunch. I wonder what your education has
benefited you if you preoccupy yourself with such ignorance and
chicanery. I have tried to ignore the many gibes that people have
taken at the Mandinkas here both directly and some subtlely. Enough is
Enough!
>
> Ansu
>
>
> Rene said:
>
> It looks like Mathews take on PDOIS is not govern by any sense
of rational inquiry, but by a desire to malign and castigate as is
always the case when he writes about PDOIS.
>
>
> It also looks like Mathew does not have a through grasp of the
dynamics that surrounds the political reality in Gambia, if so, he
would not have been making statements that runs contrary to what is
actually happening on the ground.
>
>
> When opposition to a political dispensation is not characterized
by a sense of principle and purpose; when such opposition is merely the
desire to change the leadership of the country, because it has fallen
into the wrong hands (into the hands of the JOLA minority), the
political narrative becomes an intensive campaign of vilification,
demagoguery against the status quo, and criticisms just about anything
and anyone who stands in the way of bringing down such a leadership.
>
>
> PDOIS bears the brunt of these criticisms because of its
principle stand on issues of governance; and the mission and vision it
has articulated so profusely that does not favor the "lets get rid of
them by any means possible" or "lets get rid of them now, then decide
the fate of the country later," that is being propagated by our
political pundits and diaspora intellectuals who will rationalize any
argument as a justification for their position.
>
>
> Because Mathew is so critical about anything PDOIS, he will jump
at every opportunity to make scathing statements about PDOIS or its
leadership, even if such statements are not grounded on facts or
reality.
>
>
> For how else can Mathew infer that the fate of PDOIS is
inextricably tied to the success or failure of the United Democratic
Party. This is the most lamentable statement I have ever read as a
political commentary in Gambian politics. It is neither grounded on
fact or reality. The fate of PDOIS has never been tied to the success
or failure of the UDP, and never will.
>
>
> The simple reason for this is that, the vision, mission,
principles and policies that guide the existence and survival of PDOIS
as a political party for more than three decades, just cannot be
equated with the UDP that has a different vision and mission. And If
Mathew tends to make this summation based on electoral gains, let him
be reminded that it took almost a century for the ANC to succeed in
South Africa.
>
>
> And no matter how big a political party or its following,
without a strong foundation it will come tumbling down like Humpty
dumpty. What happens to the P.P.P.? Whats happens to the N.C.P? They
were the largest and biggest political party and opposition political
party in the country prior to 1994.
>
>
> Who drives the opposition political agenda? Mathew may not
agree, but certainly it is PDOIS. They are the ones who are making the
public statements; writing the political blueprints and objective
standpoints that seek to guide the evolution of a process, that will
help eventually to bring about a change of government. What irks people
like Mathew is that they don't want a process; they want PDOIS to fall
behind the UDP and help to hand over the government to them. This is
not going to happen. All the name calling is not going to do the trick.
> "In my singular opinion, PDOIS owes it highest loyalty to
itself, and its storybook in The Gambia’s political
> landscape has been solely a marketing strategy whose aim is to
articulate by word and actions, the brilliance of the ideal; its own
> ideal, with the hope of attaining political power by whatever means
through a highly suspect and superficial political brinkmanship.
> PDOIS’s trite approach to the formation of a coalition is predicated
on its nebulous, if not Ad Nauseum subliminal references to the
leadership
> of the United Democratic Party. But the UDP does not answer to
PDOIS’s agenda nor is it obliged to fulfill what the PDOIS leadership
seems to
> characterize as the precondition to a coalition formation. For a
coalition to come into fruition, PDOIS must subordinate its authority
> to UDP without attempting to dictate the agenda, for only then will
its hope for an eventual elevation to national and international
prominence
> ever come close to becoming reality"
>
>
> Arguably the above statement is devoid of intellectual inquiry,
that has the basis to argue any of the points that enumerated.
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