You make me laugh a lot Haruna.x Thank you anyway because that keeps me happy.x
I belief defering in opinions most of times serves to educate more than when we slavishly follow each other's opinion. I respect you notion that Libyans should be given chance to proof themselves post tyrant Gaddafi era but it is wise to give caution before it even start for history has tought us how dangerous it is not to be cautious. Libyan deserve the best just like every other nation in the globe. All the sceptics like my self are saying is can they unite in that endevour? Only time will proof that.
As for defering in opinion, we I don't think its is a bad thing maybe you might be right but you could be wrong as well in which case I could be right. So allow a different oppinion as your infalibility lies in your being human.x


king

 

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:16:03 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”
To: [log in to unmask]

[-----Original Message-----  From: Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>  Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels” 
There you go my Brother, Why jumping to defend the purity of an untested water is very unwise of our very own sheick of the L?] BM

Uncle, I don't know how you and I can be related yet we are so starkly different. I am not defending the purity or impurity of any untested water. A REVOLUTION by any people is not an expedition in experimentation. I do not want you and Bill Van Auken to JINX the people of Libya before they even embark on righting the sails for their nation. This is a hard-won Revoluion for the people of Libya and Allah will not forgive you if you two jonas distract us. I will personally wring your small necks. Ye beggar hear of it. We haven't even finished fighting and you're badmouthing our comrades.

[Come of it dear brov.] BM

I ain't comin' off nothin'.

[I know for a fact that some might be under duress as you claimed but in reality some only realised six months ago that Boy Nar was indeed bad and should go.] BM.

The UNDER DURESS was not speaking about the victims. It was speaking of Gadhafi and his family regime. I am glad that you admit some Libyans might have been under duress. You shared that the rest may not have been under duress but that THEY realized 6 months ago that Gadhafi was INDEED bad and should go. You ever wonder why THEY did not realize this before march 2011??????????????????????? THEY were under DURESS. It was the temporary insanity part of DURESS. For 41 friggin years. What a long comma.

[The fact that some Libyans realized only 6 months ago How sure are you that some did not abandoned him under duress otherwise would have served him until eternity?] BM.

Think about what you just said for a minute Uncle. And don't try to be cute with me. If you say "I should consider whether DURESS were responsible for some Libyans (80% of them) to abandon Gadhafi", then I say to you Uncle that DURESS is not a free radical. DURESS is a condition, INURED by an external force or ambiance. In Libya, the external force of the historic DURESS is the idiot Gadhafi and his clan. The reason why the 20% of Libyans whom you suggest may have abandoned Gadhafi under torque's DURESS were not presented with the option to serve Gadhafi until eternity. This is because the manufacturer of DURESS hightailed it outta there. And the DURESS followed him. Any questions about the nature of the DURESS Uncle? Myrtyr my big beautiful black arse.

[Does that mean those serving Yahya Jammeh now are doing under duress?] BM

YES.

[I don't think so and despite their differences and similarities, (Libyan Jamahiriya under Gaddafi and that of the Gambia under Yahya Jammeh) people still serve them for decades you mean all under duress?] BM.

The character of DURESS is mutually exclusive of its duration. The duration of DURESS is Revolution's purview. And I know where you're leading with this line of query. NO. DURESS is not an alibi for crime. DURESS is considered in sentencing, not to absolve an idiot of crime.

[Can you clearly see thats what they tell people on paper NTC is an interim government bla bla bla.] BM

The NEW LIBYA TRANSITION GOVERNMENT is an INTERIM BODY. The people of Libya can decide to change that condition of the NTC if they so choose. That choice is the purview of the Libyan people. Not of NATO, not of the UN, not of the ICFI, not of Bill vantanbilly, not of Haruna, and not of Uncle Mass. In fact if the Transition Government does a good job, I will personally encourage the Libyan people to seek the guidance and full participation of the Transition Government in future governance of Libya. WHy waste such talent among your good number????????????????

[Brother Haruna,] BM.

Yes Uncle Mass.

[Lets all hope and pray Libya does not turn into a second Iraq] BM.

You and who???? I do not just HOPE and PRAY. I work to increase the chances of my hopes and prayers coming true. Iraq who??

[because cracks have started to emerge even before the NTC sets itself up in Tripoli.] BM.

Uncle Mass, I think you're just trying to wind me up!!!!!!!!! How many times do I have to remind you that THE CRACKS have always been there??????????????????? You and Bill need to get your eyes checked. When was the last time you had an eye exam Uncle???

[I know for a fact Ramadan is having its effects on my own dear brother than he thinks.] BM.

FYI, I did not keep fast. I do not observe Ramadan. I am a HarunaMo. We do not do Ramadan. We do Hunger Strikes. For the right cause.

[Remember we all ahave have reasons that Gaddafi should go] BM.

What are your reasons for Gadhafi to go Uncle?? I'm just curious.

[but to be replaced by no one is not what Libyan wish for.] BM.

You're right. That is why Gadhafi will be replaced by another Libyan. And the New Libya Transition Government will be working to ensure that Gadhafi is replaced by another Libyan. To be replaced by no one is not an option. Never has been Uncle Mass. Don't let Bill get you carried away. That's what he's wantin'. For Gadhafi to be replaced by no one. You're too funny Uncle.

[Until elections are held, and whose candidates are being groomed, we shall all wait and see] BM.

Why wait and see???? Why not help yield peace and good elections. That way you can be sure Gadhafi is replaced by someone as opposed to no one???

[but jumping to the defence of the NTC is so premature I think.] BM.

For the umpteenth time, I do not defend the NTC. I do not know the NTC that well to jump at their defense. And I can't jump that high anyway?? Uncle, I am supporting the people of Libya's march toward freedom and democracy.

[king] BM

I love your signature Uncle Mass. I'm darn near jealous. For consolation, I am comforted I have a King and a Prince in the glorious Darbo clan. I am myself a Duke. Of McCarthy Square. And Sheriff of Ellen. (not L). I love you Uncle Mass. But please quit agitating me. Don't make me forget to share ideas on Bill's notes.
 

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:07:10 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”
To: [log in to unmask]

Uncle Mass, I think I'll wait for a week so Ramadan's effects wear out on you.

The New Libya Transition Government is an INTERIM government to
1. Shephard the Jamahiriya REVOLUTION
2. To present a veritable CONSTITUTION of Libya's CONSTITUENT families, clans, tribes, trades unions, fraternities, sororities, ummah, and students' unions.
3. To coordinate FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS in which the New Libya Transition Officers WILL NOT PARTICIPATE, nor will they participate in any ensuing government from those elections for two terms.

Therefore;

The NEW LIBYA TRANSITION GOVERNMENT is, and should be, comprised of Libyans, drawn proportionately from all the families, clans, tribes, trades unions, fraternities, sororities, Ummah, and student unions of the Libyan people. I couldn't care less if they were boy-boys or girl-girls of Gadhafi. One thing I know is that whatever they were under Gadhafi, they were existing under duress.

And the DIVISIONS, families, tribes, clans, etcetera had always been in Libya as they are and have always been in the UK, USA, Denmark, Austria, Norway, Tananarive, France, Switzerland, Russia, China, Gambia, La-Guinea, and the Canary Islands.

I gotto go mow some lawns to raise funds for the members of The GDP's GOLD Fund. I don't think you should consider keeping fast next year Uncle.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”

No Brother Haruna,
I mean I would never be surprised if the Rabels in Libya divide along tribal lines. This organisation never existed before.It was haistely set up just to replace the tyrant but lets face it who are its top members? Tyrant's own trained boy boys? Its sick to think they can bring any meaningful change into the Libyan society divided for over four decades.x These ognisation is created and they would always bow to those who created them. Can anyone tell me those in it are truely blameless of crimes? I don't think so neither do any of their creators. The fact is those soiled in are brushed so they shine a bit in the naked eye.x 


king

 

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:06:36 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”
To: [log in to unmask]

Uncle Mass, what are you talking about???? Are you still keeping fast?

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bamba sering Manka Mass <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”

I would not be surprised one bit despite my hatred for Boy Nar.x

king

 

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:26:41 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”
To: [log in to unmask]

Thank you Nyamorkono. Preciate you.
Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fye samateh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”


On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:46 PM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
The link where Bill's crap came from. Thank you in advance Nyamorkono.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fye samateh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”

What link r u talking about. ?

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Nyamorkono, Thanx for sharing. I have read the clueless Bill Van Auken's editorial and in order to assist me in doing background research on "The Journal", can you please share with us a link to "The Journal". I want to share some ideas with Bill Van Auken but I want to do due-diligence before I do so. De-Minimis, Bill of Auken is alarmist. At the extreme, he is a liar and could belong to Al-Qaa'Ida of his country of origin. He is totally clueless about Al-Qaa'Ida and in this piece of crap he's feeding us, he is manufacturing further tribal discord among the great people of Libya just to satisfy his own dreams. Which can be found in the title of his boat load of shit; [Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”].

Could you please inform this idiot for me (before I share ideas with him), that there have been divisions and distinctions in Libya since the nation was born and well beforehand. They are called Families, Clans, Tribes, Trades Unions, Fraternities, Ummah, Sororities, political parties, and student unions. There were divisions in Libya during all of Gadhafi's 42 years of Dictatorship in Libya. There have been divisions among Bill Van Auken's (for brevity sakes, I'd like to know where this fucker is from) country's Families, clans, tribes, Trades Unions, Fraternities, Lodges, Sororities, political parties, and student unions. What Van Auken is calling "Emergence" is the lifting of the lid tha Gadhafi placed on these divisions and sat on it. It was because the pressure exerted by the lid has become unbearable for these unique peoples of Libya that they conducted his surgical removal in the JAMAHIRIYYA REVOLUTION. The revolution was not meant to erase the divisions and distinctions among families, clans, tribes, trades unions, fraternities, ummah, lodges, sororities, and students unions of Libya. The Revolution was a pressure relief valve to set these great people, with all their divisions and distinctions FREE. This idiot Bill can't tell a terrorist from a freedom fighter if his life depended on it. He invokes 9/11 to achieve his goal of alarming other clueless idiots.

Nyamorkono, I will stop here for now until you share the link to Bill's garbage with us. I got more to say to this nincangpooh as our friend Sankara is wont to quip. We'll take him back to elementary school so he can be a born-again HarunaMo.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fye samateh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 8:39 am
Subject: [G_L] Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”

Divisions emerge among Libya’s NATO-led “rebels”

By Bill Van Auken
31 August 2011
With the US and its European allies set to install a puppet regime in Libya based on the Benghazi-based National Transitional Council, deep divisions have emerged among the NATO-led “rebels”. These divisions, which include tensions with elements of Al Qaeda, pose the threat of continued fighting between rival factions well after the overthrow of the regime of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi is completed.
The head of Libya’s self-appointed National Transitional Council, who has been anointed by the NATO allies as Libya's interim leader, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, has yet to set foot in Tripoli, where scattered fighting continues.
The armed bands that have seized control of the Libyan capital have given no indication that they accept the NTC’s authority. Many of these elements, drawn from the western mountain region and the city of Misrata, have voiced contempt for the collection of ex-Gaddafi ministers, like Jalil, CIA and other Western intelligence agency assets, and tribal politicians based in Benghazi.
Among those who have come forward as the leaders of “liberated” Tripoli is one Abdelhakim Belhadj, who has described himself as the head of the Tripoli Military Council, i.e., the “rebel” military commander.
As the Arabic daily Asharq Al-Awsat noted, Belhadj “is also a former Emir of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), which was banned internationally as a terrorist organization following the 9/11 attacks.”
Belhadj began his career as a jihadist fighting alongside Osama bin Laden with the CIA-backed Islamist mujahideen in Afghanistan in 1988. He returned to Libya in the 1990s, founding the LIFG and launching an armed insurgency against the Gaddafi government.
It was this insurgency that played a large part in pushing the Gaddafi regime toward an accommodation with Washington and the other imperialist powers. After the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the CIA forged close ties with Libyan intelligence, collaborating in the suppression of Al Qaeda-linked elements in Libya and throughout the region.
In the period leading up to 9/11, Belhadj was involved in the running of two Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. A number of Libyans went on to become Al Qaeda’s top commanders in Afghanistan, including Abu Faraj al-Libi, who was captured in 2005, and Abu al-Laith al-Libi, who was killed in 2008.
After the October 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, Belhadj went to Pakistan and then to Iraq, where he collaborated with the Al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Captured by the CIA in 2003 in Malaysia, he was subjected to extraordinary rendition to a secret prison in Thailand where he was interrogated under torture. He was then turned over to the Gaddafi regime in 2004. In 2010, he was released after he and other LIFG leaders renounced the armed struggle, except in invaded Muslim countries, including Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.
The presence of Belhadj in the command of “rebels” who have been armed and trained by NATO and whose entry into Tripoli was made possible by massive NATO bombardments raises a number of disturbing questions.
Not least of them, of course, is the significance, as the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, of the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies working intimately with a well-known Al Qaeda operative. On the one hand, it exposes the gross fraud of the “global war on terror,” in which two wars of aggression were justified on the basis of the need to defeat Al Qaeda. On the other hand, it points to the extreme recklessness of US and NATO policy in Libya.
It has been widely reported that the LIFG elements led by Belhadj have looted immense amounts of armaments from Gaddafi’s stockpiles, including surface-to-air missiles. Their ranks have also been swollen by the freeing of prisoners from Libyan jails, among them hundreds of Al Qaeda-linked militants.
Belhadj’s role also calls into sharp question the nature of the “democracy” that NATO is helping to install in Libya, in which radical Islamists are playing a leading role.
It is widely believed that Islamist elements around Belhadj were responsible for the July 28 assassination of the man then designated as the NTC’s military commander, General Abdul Fatah Younis, who defected from the Gaddafi regime in late February of this year.
As Gaddafi’s public security minister, Younis had been intimately involved in the suppression of Islamist insurgents in the east of Libya, and it is widely believed that these elements took their revenge. It was also reported that the Islamists suspected the general because of his ties to NATO and opposed his attempts to bring the various armed militias under his command.
The killing has opened up a deep fissure within the Benghazi-based “rebels”. Members of Younis’ powerful Obeidat tribe vowed last weekend that they would take their own action if the NTC failed to charge the defector’s killers. Representatives of Younis’ family gave the Muslim holiday of Eid, marking the end of Ramadan, as the final deadline. The holiday passed on Tuesday with no apparent action by the NTC.
The NTC chief Jalil angered members of the Obeidat tribe last week when he announced that action would be taken against Younis’ killers “when the higher interests of this revolution will not be damaged.”
Members of Younis’ family charged that the answer indicated the NTC’s subservience to the Islamists. “We need to prevent the tyranny of Gaddafi turning into the tyranny of those ideological groups,” Mohammed Hamid, Younis' nephew, told Reuters. “There are those who want the country to be run by militias like Afghanistan.”
Reuters commented that the case represented “a steep test” of whether the NATO-backed council would prove able to “sidestep tribal fault lines that could further destabilize the war-battered and heavily-armed country.”
Meanwhile, protests broke out in the city of Misrata on Monday after the NTC announced a decision to install a former general in Gaddafi’s army, Albarrani Shkal, as chief of security in Tripoli.
Hundreds poured into Misrata’s Martyr’s Square, chanting that the appointment of Shkal represented a betrayal of the “blood of the martyrs.”
Before defecting to the anti-Gaddafi side in May, Shkal is believed to have been a senior officer in the 32nd Brigade, commanded by Gaddafi’s son Khamis, which played a leading role in the siege of Misrata.
According to the British Guardian: “Misrata's ruling council lodged a formal protest with the NTC, saying that if the appointment were confirmed Misratan rebel units deployed on security duties in Tripoli would refuse to follow NTC orders.”
“Behind the protests is a wider grudge between Misratans and the NTC, which many accuse of representing Benghazi rather than Libyans as a whole,” the Guardian reported, “Misrata’s military council continues to refuse to follow orders from NTC army commanders, and some rebels complain that Misrata’s units and those from the Nafusa mountains to the west, have not been recognized as having been the key to the fall of Tripoli.”
The controversy calls into question the heart of the strategy announced by the NTC, NATO and the United Nations, which is to reconstitute Gaddafi’s security forces along with other state institutions under a new Western-backed puppet government.
Washington and its allies are reportedly determined to “learn the lessons of Iraq”, which included the disastrous unraveling of the occupation after the Bush administration ordered the disbanding of the Saddam Hussein regime’s military and police. Attempting the opposite strategy of keeping the old regime’s security forces intact, however, may produce equally violent results.
Another front in which divisions have erupted has provoked disquiet within one of the Libyan NATO war’s principal constituencies, the major Western energy conglomerates.
“Tensions have surfaced within Libya’s rebel oil circles,” the Wall Street Journal reported, “underscoring the complexity of any return to normal in the North African nation after its regime change.”
According to sources cited by the Journal, the conflict pits “the rebel wing of the National Oil Co., or NOC, and the oil and finance ministry on the one side and, on the other side, managers of a local state-owned oil company that came under the opposition’s control early, the Arabian Gulf Oil Co., or Agoco.”
The report states that “rebels” in the NOC have denounced the Benghazi-based Agoco for “not consulting” before making deals with foreign corporations. Agoco managers have responded by threatening “to make a strike” over the NOC’s interference in their dealings.
The conflict, which clearly is a falling out over the division of spoils that points to a possible break-up of Libya along regional lines, is “complicating the task of foreign companies trying to return to the country,” the Journal reports.

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