----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 8:04
Subject: Re: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution

Kejau

Although YJ went with instinct informed by experience, I think his conclusion,i.e., "a duck" is right. Egypt's democratisation process will not be complete inside six months. Indeed we don't want Mursi to complete that process even if he served in the presidency for more than ten years. The point here is that when he operates outside the boundaries of reasonableness, and especially where his assault is on rights and liberties, he must not be able to shield his conduct by executive decree.

Having lived under the perverse Mubarak regime all these years, I am sure you can appreciate the legitimate apprehension of ordinary Egyptians who made it possible for Mursi to ascend the pinnacle of Egyptian public life. Egypt is not at war and there are no exigencies to justify Mursi's conduct in immunizing himself from legitimate scrutiny. Democracy is slow and messy but Arab leaders must embrace genuine democracy if giants like Egypt are not to remain Lilliputians on the world stage.

There is also no need to retry Mubarak as provided for by Mursi's decree.

For the sake of completeness, I do not read YJ as saying your understanding of public issues is exclusive to military affairs. I read him a suggesting you have special expertise in that area.

In conclusion, I support YJ's instinctive conclusion that Mursi's conduct looks, smells, feels, talks, and behaves like a duck.


 



LJDarbo   

From: Kejau Touray <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 0:10
Subject: Re: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution

Yero, 
I was not calling you lame but your take on the issue. Military in Africa is my expertise, eh. Very interesting, but what is yours expertise then. No pun intended, but what makes you think that is my expertise and nothing else, I take it that means I should stick to that and only that and not talk about other issues.
Well as we ask in the military is that a request or an order, as some in African military mayfind it very arrogant especially after calling me immature. Apologies, but  I am saying "let me hear your take on Africa's military being that it is your expertise." can be arrogant in some quarter especially in my "expertise", i.e. in the African military. Just kidding though, so will give you my take when and if I can find time. 
Kind regards, 
Kejau 
 
>
> Kejau: I am not sure you want to pursue on this lame and lazy line
> eventhough I don't expect you to apologize. All I am pointing to is that
> you can debate without calling me any name like lame. We have too much
> humor on these debates added to the fact of taking points that I won't
> call any genuine person lame. To start to call anyone a name, you risked
> being called a worst name and not even an ant will tremble from it. I
> clearly see that not only as immature but defeats the purpose of debating
> here. Anyway, I won't push hard on that point. let us debate still and
> clearly no heart feeling. Good job on talking about the courts and that is
> my expectation. If you dig well, you will notice, most of my forwards are
> to provoke debates which is the reason why we have these forums. Those
> open to dialogue can participate with their ideas on some matters that
> appeal to them. If something doesn't appeal to you, let it pass. There is
> no need to raise blood pressure on some of these leaders like Morsi. I
> share Sidia Jatta's views on the Arab spring. You and I have our problems
> in the Gambia. Some of these leaders you will agree failed. When jammeh
> came to power, (you as a former Military, Lt. title) attest to the fact of
> some of these shameful toad-metamorphosis, baby stages in toads. "You
> could have just forwarded the CNN report and let the readers read for
> themselves rather than take their side and their story and then without
> adding any of your own observations critically." Kejau. Kejau: Don't fail
> to realize that I am equally a reader and entitled to the same basic right
> you want to accord to other readers. Kejau, in America, there is
> somnething we call 'democracy of the people, by the people and for the
> people.' A single person uniformed in the presidency shouldn't decide for
> all. These duck movements and baby steps heads no where but dictatorial.
> Thanks for input on this one, let me hear your take on Africa's military
> being that it is your expertise. Best regards,Yero
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:58:12 +0100
>
From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Yero, You wrote "My take is that you wrote that
> if it If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck from the far
> and near, there is no question about it being a duck
> Suntou". Now that is lame and lazy of you in my
> books. In the same vein, you are pointing at what CNN reported
> without critically analyzing the issue being reported. You could have just
> forwarded the CNN report and let the readers read for themselves rather
> than take their side and their story and then without adding any of your
> own observations critically. You see the CNN reports failed to
> report that there are demonstration for and against these moves. The
> courts, all which were appointed by Mubarak are frustrating all efforts to
> govern. They dissolved parliament and want to assume the full role of law
> making as well as interpretation. The president, the only elected office
> should be the law maker in lieu of the parliament, and the fight for power
> ensues. Instead of three arms of government, there are two arms thanks to
> the courts and now who assumes law making, which cannot be left in
> vacuum...If they do not want the president assuming legislative
> powers, they should let the constitution come into effect asap as well as
> the legislature. Kejau >
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Kejau:
>
>>
>
>> I hope you
>
>> clearly make distinctions between discussions and throwing
>
>> “unsubstantiated accusations”
>
>> as you are trying to label it. As far as I am concerned, the later is
> far
>
>> from
>
>> it.
>
>>
>
>> If you call
>
>> my points lame, wonder what I should call your points then. Will you
> take
>
>> double or triple lame? Instead of engaging in the kind of pettiness
> and
>
>> “flaming”
>
>> of a debate, why not debate your points across. By the way, who said
> it is
>
>> because of the Muslim brotherhood? Who said it is because the
> western
>
>> media is
>
>> saying this and that? See how your sudden jump on this won’t
> yield a
>
>> progressive debate if I want to engage you in those
> “unsubstantiated”
>
>> labels
>
>> you are trying to burry yourself in. If I may equally ask: Show me
> your
>
>> objectivity
>
>> in the lines that you typed above, because I neither mentioned his
>
>> association
>
>> with the Muslim brotherhood nor did I talk about the Western
> media’s take
>
>> on
>
>> him. Maybe go back over my few lines and come back so we can continue
> on
>
>> this
>
>> debate.
>
>>
>
>> Thanks for
>
>> your input nonetheless Kejau and here is the debate as far as I am
>
>> concerned…You are
>
>> stating that people should deal with the real issues yet failed to
> realize
>
>> that
>
>> something must have happened that triggered citizens of Egypt to take
> to
>
>> the
>
>> streets. The real issues are what citizens of that country must have
> seen
>
>> to
>
>> take to T-Square. The history of what we seen from these so-called
>
>> liberators don’t
>
>> impress us so far. What we have seen is pariahs who falsely
> uniform
>
>> themselves
>
>> in name of liberating the masses and as soon as they step at the
> door,
>
>> they
>
>> play around the constitution little by little to achieve their
> much
>
>> desired aim
>
>> of ruling with an iron fist.
>
>>
>
>> If I may poke
>
>> your mind, what is the reason that Egyptians took to the streets
> Kejau?
>
>>
>
>>
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/24/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
>
>>
>
>> [President Mohamed Morsy on Thursday announced
>
>> that courts could not overturn any decree or law he has issued
> since
>
>> taking
>
>> office in June and, beyond that, in the six months until a new
>
>> constitution is
>
>> finalized, his spokesman said on state-run TV.]
>
>>
>
>> ["It's unprecedented, it's unimaginable,
>
>> it's more (power) than Mr. Mubarak ever had," Mohamed ElBaradei,
> a Nobel
>
>> laureate and head of Egypt's Constitution Party, told CNN. "This
> is the
>
>> language of a dictator."]
>
>>
>
>> Just before I leave you for the weekend, I
>
>> thought you can add few lines on the below topic as time permits;
> The
>
>> brutality
>
>> of the African Army.
>
>>
>
>> http://kibaaro.com/?p=4588
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Best regards,
>
>>
>
>> Yero
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:42:08 -0600
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>> Subject: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Kejau:
>
>>
>
>> I am missing where you are trying to get to.
>
>>
>
>> You said, "That is so lame." Please explain what you are
> refering to as
>
>> lame.
>
>>
>
>> Further you said, "...you are supposed to be
> objective..."
>
>>
>
>> Kejau----please explain because I am truly not getting what you
> are
>
>> refering to as objective or not.
>
>>
>
>> Best,
>
>> Yero
>
>>
>
>> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:27:33 +0100
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>> Yero,
>
>> That is so very lame. Just because the western media
>
>> labels Morsi as a dictator, he must be one?
>
>> As journalists, you are
>
>> supposed to be objective and get to the bottom of things before
> jumping on
>
>> the band
>
>> wagon.
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> Kejau
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Minister Suntou: Thanks for your input. Not so soon about
> missing
>
>> the
>
>>
>
>>> debate. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck from the far
> and
>
>> near,
>
>>
>
>>> there is no question about it being a duck Suntou. While we are
> on
>
>> this
>
>>
>
>>> one; wondering what your thoughts are on the following:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
> http://www.maafanta.com/SidiaBayoTheNationalTransitionalCouncilOfTheGambiaNTCG.html
>
>>
>
>>> [POST JAMMEH
>
>>
>
>>> REGIME:
>
>>
>
>>> Once it
>
>>
>
>>> achieves its goal of removing Yahya Jammeh’s regime; the
> NTCG
>
>> will become
>
>>
>
>>> a
>
>>
>
>>> transitional government, which will only last for 2 years]
> Best
>
>>
>
>>> regards,Yero
>
>>
>
>>> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:16:47 +0000
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
>
>>
>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> The question is, what powers has the President amass? If
> he
>
>> doesn't have
>
>>
>
>>>> Veto powers, where would the buck stops. I think to be too
>
>> simplistic in
>
>>
>
>>>> issues like this is missing the debate. The military
> dominates
>
>> and for
>
>>
>
>>>> that to end, someone must be above them. I think people
> are
>
>> overeacting
>
>>
>
>>>> too soon without examining the underlying reason. Suntou
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 22:43, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> > Really?Just days after Morsi brokered ceasefire between
> the
>
>> Isrealites
>
>>
>
>>>> and Hamas,came the anouncement that he will change the
>
>>
>
>>>> constitution.The new constitution will give the president
> more
>
>>
>
>>>> powers.Why did he need more powers for? My question and
> the
>
>> question
>
>>
>
>>>> most people will ask is has the Arab Spring been effective?
> Is
>
>> Egypt
>
>>
>
>>>> going back to the Hosni Mubarak era? There is no question
> that
>
>> such a
>
>>
>
>>>> move on the part of President Morsi is major blow to the
> concept
>
>> of
>
>>
>
>>>> the Arab Spring.Now let see how critical the West will be by
> such
>
>> a
>
>>
>
>>>> move.Right now Morsi has the West on his side.He has cut a
>
>> deal
>
>>
>
>>>> between Isreal and Hamas that resulted into a ceasefire.
>
>>
>
>>>> > Remember the saying "the devil you is better than
> the
>
>> devil you dont
>
>>
>
>>>> know"? Stay tune.
>
>>
>
>>>> > hous
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
>>>> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings,
> go to
>
>> the
>
>>
>
>>>> Gambia-L Web interface
>
>>
>
>>>> > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
>>>> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>
>>
>
>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
>
>>
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>>>> >
>
>>
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>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
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> to
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>
>>
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>>>
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>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>> --
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