Bro Yero,

While I understand and agree with some of your frustrations about Giuseppe's reductio ad absurdum disposition, I want to clarify that he was taking both the Muslim & follwers and Christian bretheren to task for looking the other way while Imam Baba Leigh was being raked over the coals. In other words it is both Unmohammedan and UnChristian of them.

 Joe, I am going to ask you a question. I am not asking this because I doubt your sincerity for I have known you way long. Joe, you keep asking about those Muslim followers. How about you Joe, what have you done so far? Instead of worrying about those who are not with you, it is high time you consider anyone wishing to fight with you. This is just a brotherly suggestion. If you are doing anything as a citizen, I must tell you to continue. This fight about freedom and liberty cannot be narrowed down to religious association. I hate to make it look like I am lecturing you because you are old enough to be my parent, or better put a big brother, so I assume that you know better not to narrow it down to religion.

Thanks Yero. Let's make 2013 the best year ever.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Y Jallow <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:59 am
Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter

 

Joe:

I heard you saying couple of weeks ago that these forums were real talk. Joe, i posted hours ago but I didn't hear from you. I assume that you are asleep, busy or maybe getting ready for your x-mas. I thought real time talk means post and get a reply. Joe, the point is belittling others forums or making one more important defeats the purpose of unity. In my view, there is no competition at all which is part of why we refused to be cornered in the forum we signed up to. To the best of my knowledge, we've tried our best to keep it clean. The way you debate here makes it seem that people are holding brief for Amadou. There is nothing further from the truth. Joe, tell this forum that an invitation was extended to you, the same way that we invited Amadou. You Joe felt so mighty not even to respond to ours. Joe, Amadou who was invited honored our request, but you didn't. This is someone who we never communicated at personal level or shared any organization details or even interacted with. Again, I might be young, not part of some of these so-called status groups, but both I and Demba are no strangers to you. Personally, we have met in Minnesota, Chicago, Wisconsin, DC, Atlanta, and you name the rest Joe.

Joe, it equally becomes morally wrong for anyone to be the judge and jury at the same time. This whole notion of making people believe that some are holding brief for Amadou, maybe true for others, not me! I tell you that while Amadou and the many others might be guilty by association to Jammeh, sometimes I am forced to believe that some of the intellectual dishonesty and endorsement of falsehood, half-truths, and group association by some default of the so called lions has engulfed us so much.

 Joe, I am going to ask you a question. I am not asking this because I doubt your sincerity for I have known you way long. Joe, you keep asking about those Muslim followers. How about you Joe, what have you done so far? Instead of worrying about those who are not with you, it is high time you consider anyone wishing to fight with you. This is just a brotherly suggestion. If you are doing anything as a citizen, I must tell you to continue. This fight about freedom and liberty cannot be narrowed down to religious association. I hate to make it look like I am lecturing you because you are old enough to be my parent, or better put a big brother, so I assume that you know better not to narrow it down to religion.

Joe, again, I have seen you in heated debates here in the past and have stepped in to put my opinion, some of the topics very sensitive and you know better. If that was right, what is wrong with those of us making opinions about what we feel is not handled well.

 Joe, how about fresh and reassuring ideas on unity, reconciliation, way forward, engaging Gambians....I believe to ask that much in your view is being naive or not on real time talk, right?

Joe, it is time we face it. If we continue with the kind of attitude, trust me, we are doomed forever. Instead of this witch hunting, we must act different to the system (jammeh) we despise and criticize so much. What it means to me as an ordinary citizen, what is being offered is not the least favorable. Agree or not, but a healthy democracy must include elements of citizens’ reconciliation. Besides, we must not think whatever opinions we have are just what is right. Those tendencies that keep surfacing really scare me. The so-called intellectual beating on anyone little one dares say something is enough. We must face it….none of us, you or I, Joe is man enough to go challenge Jammeh at home, for reasons best known to us. Again, like Honorable Sidia said if you know fire burns and it has burnt you before, why would you put your hand in there?

 
Thanks for your points and let's debate on points rather than anger.  

Best regards,

Yero

 

 
 

 
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 16:13:48 -0600




Joe:
 
Thanks for your response equally. To start you up, watch this clip, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjrthOPLAKM. With this little girl crying, I was so moved about political temperature being elevated especially in a negative way.
 
Since you are also on the GPU mailing list, I am sure you follow my discussions there. You know I currently have Mathew on a performance Improvement Plan (PIP) and ask any of those in management and they will tell you what PIPs are for.
 
Joe, I am taking a position on the ongoing issues. I don't see it as a neutral stance. I don't expect you to agree with everything. Just for correction, I wasn't referring to AS Janneh indirectly as you claimed. I was speaking in general. Besides, this whole idea that anyone that disagrees with you is not on the right track continues to worry me about you, Joe. It is probably something you don't realize. See, there are two sides to a coin. There is the truth, your truth and mine.
 
You said, you haven't seen me address Janneh. Most recently, you followed two interviews of Janneh  on Gainako by Demba. Moreso, you saw me recently express disappointment over his request to delist from the Gambia post or his unwillingness to participate. Joe, could it be that you missed some parts of what people contribute. i know i don't read everything, so please dig on....Again, people have different ways of addressing issues. Others can be mild and still genuine; others can choose to equate aggression, tit for tat; others can be werewolves uniformed in good uniforms; and others can be just be readers with opinions.
 
 "Yero, what do you mean by the above? It appears you are speaking about those that do not agree with your position, no? So, can you please clarify for me who these people are and we can discuss further." Joe
 
Joe, when I write, I am addressing all the readership of a forum, not necessarily directed to an individual. The very topic we are discussing is for everyone. In simplicity, I am just calling on people to debate, agree to disagree without having to be disagreable. A citizen's duty is to love country and work towards its peaceful existence and development. Again, citizens entirely have a duty to move the Gambia forward.  
 
Joe, great points on those followers you are refering to. While I share your take on it, I want to caution that in a dictatorship like the one we have, I worry more about what I and those who share the struggle with me can do. I was just trying to tell you that some of these followers are with the dictator Joe. If they are with him, it means they will not do a damn thing about what is happening home.
 
Joe, i hear your points and I understand your position and frustration on those who joined jammeh. This is something that I have acknowledged a thousand times, so again, we all know that once the new Gambia hatches, anyone who committed any crime will be brought to justice.
 
Joe, I am ready to take the naive card. One thing that I know---some of these nasty debates are not the solutions to our problem. When jammeh is going after our people, one by one, we must be ready to unite and fight together as a bundle.
 
I look forward to participating more on this......
 
Thanks,
Yero
 
 
 

 
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:24:38 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
To: [log in to unmask]

Yero, thanks for your response. Yes, anytime a loved one is not allowed to be seen by these people you know they are doing harm to the person the reason why they do not want folks to see the damage they are doing or have done. My questions were not to you personally, nor were they for diasporans. Those questions were directed at those on the ground, especially those that wear the cloak of holier than thou. Folks in that country pride themselves as more pious than pious. Now, how come the person that led them every day is nabbed and everyone is about their business but the business of their Imam? Is this another one of those Allah knows best? It is the hypocrisy of our people that I was questioning. I am not a muslim but common sense tells me if my Imam is nabbed by a criminal and we all know what could happen to him, the congregation of the faithful should rise up and that nonsense will be nabbed at the bud. Can you do that in Senegal and that government survive a day (not the case of Bethou, he was accessory to murder)? No. And so we run around show casing our piety, but can never see nor hear evil.  Transitioning from the Imams and their congregation to the Clergy. Where is their faith? Most of these guys grew up and ran the streets with Imam Leigh in socialization circles aback in the day and they know what is happening to him is wrong and should speak up. Their silence speaks volume. Where is their faith? I see them organize this and that interfaith dialogue and where it counts the most - caring for your fellow human you see no evil and hear no evil. This is where I am headed Yero. You will agree with me that those that can put an end to this injustice right now as I write are minutes away from Mile Two. Now, if you believe it is more effective from five thousand miles outside I cannot argue over that. Diasporans have been doing doing what they can do for their country the last fifteen years, yet, folks are murdered, tortured, nabbed, shot at, etc. That abuse will never stop for the action that needs to stop it is right there and as long as they claim that "Human Rights and Civil Rights" dont feed them, it will be business as usual. Yesterday it was Chief Manneh and others, today it is Imam Leigh, tomorrow might be a relative, brother, or sister near you. 

As to your indirect reference to Amadou, I believe you know what needs to be done. None is stopping nor can we stop anyone from standing up. We some of us are demanding is that before any shrub stands up to want to lead us, they first have to explain their actions and I do not have to bore folks with that track record. If you say you are neutral and do not belong to any group, how come I am not reading any where, where you wrote to Amadou to tell him the basics of common sense - that after he sold his soul, the right thing to do is to fess up first and before he tells us about how Yaya (not that there is new science in that anyway) is, we need to know about him first. But to be an opportunist and took off only to run back still an opportunist and have the nerve to think that you should be seen as someone's leader is the height of arrogance. If you are not here to lead anyone, then why do you want to be our face? Why take such a face that Yaya discarded to fight Yaya and expect to be taken seriously? Now, Amadou being part of CCG what has that to do with folks that are nabbed in Gambia? He was there when folks were being murdered and nothing happened. So, he being in Atlanta or Dakar makes no difference. Seriously, we need to stop this messiah syndrome. This is why we have our share of dictators in Africa because for some reason we always think that one person is it and without him the end is near. Reminds me when Jawara set the scheme to entrap his suspects by  announcing his retirement. Legend has it that many a Alaghi lost their Kala for rolling on the ground, "Nore Paabi, Dun Kor Have" in a trance. We have far too many credible folks to choose from, why should we dumb down our standards? Why? Apparently all those that came here to tell us this is not about leadership were not either in the know, or were being deceptive. For, Matthew spelt out that Amadou will lead us whether we like it or not. If any is going to lend their name or integrity to something, be very mindful that it is something that is worth it. Your integrity is all you have and without it all is lost.

"Joe, we are all citizens. Let us make the best out of these forums with a view for scrutiny, accountability, and points taking rather than having to see any debate get flamed by unnecessary venoms."

Yero, what do you mean by the above? It appears you are speaking about those that do not agree with your position, no? So, can you please clarify for me who these people are and we can discuss further.

Regards,

Joe 
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:08:02 -0600



Joe:

These are genuine questions and thanks for your rejoinders as always. Before getting into it, it might interest you to hear some live updates about the Imam. Minnesota civil rights group just concluded its meeting about three (3) hours ago. It was purposely conducted to see what action Gambians and their friends can take. We also had a conference call with a prominent family member of the arrested Imam (Baba Leigh) in the Gambia on the phone. From his updates, the Imam is still kept incommunicado. No one is allowed to see him. Now that leaves a lot of speculations about his fate. I don't trust this administration and their track record as I keep crying is very dirty. We certainly came up with certain actionable items. We are happy to put that to action in conjunction with what other groups are doing in different states of the US.

 
Joe, you asked about the whereabouts of these special class people if you like. Personally, as an ordinary citizen who doesn't belong to any class, I worry more about what is within my reach and power that I can extend sincerely to our nation and its people especially the oppressed and suffering masses. Belonging to former US President JFK's school of thought, thus "ask not what your country can do for you; but what you can do for your country." What I am trying to say Joe is the fact that we must certainly realize by now that some of these folks you are asking for do not have the same thoughts or believes that you and I have. You do not expect that they will fight the fight you expect them to fight. I am sorry but I thought that you know more than that. That is level I am at.

 
Joe, where this now leads us to: Do you see it genuine then to welcome those that are ready to fight with us? I am not looking for anyone to confuse my points as it is so common for anyone to just get away with any little part to fume these forums or to make certain people the supporters of those who once worked with Jawara or Jammeh. Clearly, I do not belong to any group. I am an independent person and for the most part while stance is different but again it doesn’t mean I am holding brief. Needless to mention, I am equally disappointment lately of some of the tendencies I saw from many people I held so high in this struggle of ours, especially with the defensive nature leading to even getting dirty in this debate. I will be the last person to discourage anyone from debating so again the whole issue is not about not wanting to see people being “scrutinized” and “accounted”. I see some of the problems being pointed out on the other side, but I keep asking, what prescription do we have for a sick person already? I would expect a doctor will heal the sick rather than sitting there blaming him for eating dirty germs that made him sick or having sex with another person that transmitted HIV AIDS to him.

 
Joe, I have a dream that our winning formula against tyranny is unity, compromise, fighting together, and letting some of things come later. If we fail to do this, we must be ready for the long hours of oppression ahead. We must design a winning formula. I am calling for rewarding criminals but I am asking for a system where we can all unite to fight the common enemy and such a system must not marginalize anyone.

 
In the end, some of the folks' whereabouts you are asking might not be far from our reach but if we continue to be intolerant and not welcoming like some of the threatening tendencies I have seen, I am afraid, you and I might be lonely fighters because I don't know about any other person, but personally this is life and death for me. I will fight in secrete and I will fight in the open. I will not worry about who is folding their hands though again it touches my emotions but like the many who wants to do their little, I will do it with them.

 
Joe, we are all citizens. Let us make the best out of these forums with a view for scrutiny, accountability, and points taking rather than having to see any debate get flamed by unnecessary venoms.

 
I understand that you are in Mauritania. I tried calling your magic jack number to no success. I appreciate your steadfastness and being there for the struggle for the longest. My best of regards to your entire family and I wish you a holiday full of love and blessings.

 
Best regards,

 Yero
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 17:46:41 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
To: [log in to unmask]

Yero, the larger question around this saga is where are "the faithful", - his congregation? What do they believe in? If an Imam's rights are being trampled upon with not a muscle twitching, what chance does the ordinary Gambian without a following have? Under such circumstances, what does their core belief inform? Where are his fellow Imams, his counterparts in the Church, etc., forget the average Joe for a second? What do they believe in? Their actions speak volumes. So, what do our people believe in? Daily bread I suppose! 

Joe 

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:52:26 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
To: [log in to unmask]

Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
 
 
Folks,
 
I am personally glad to see many continuing to add their voices on Imam Baba Leigh. As of yesterday, a friend updated me that the Imam is hospitalized and families/friends are not allowed to see him. It is suspicious to say the least. While we have heard conflicting theories about him being tortured or not, I am getting more worried about the Imam's fate. I don't trust Jammeh and his terror administration. That is not because I despise them. It is because their track record is what I go by. Moreover, a citizen arrested and kept incomminicadoo without being charged within the constitution's stipulation is a serious violation of his right. That is torture in no small way. The Gambia has come to live under a horrible nightmare and it is time for all citizens to make their voices heard by which ever means available to them.
 
Please pass around this letter from Habib and you can possibly inspire thousand others.
 
Best regards,
Yero
 
 
 
$B!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!" (B To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] $B!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!" (B
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